Is GM going bankrupt?

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My friends dad owns a GM dealership. From what my friend told me they just claimed a 2 billion dollar loss last year because of all the retiree's sucking money out of it. GM is a huge company with many cars, but I am wondering if anyone else has heard of anything. Personally my friend said if the government doesn't step in sometime they will go bankrupt and the stock market will crash. I'm not sure what to believe but I know my friend's dad owns a dealership and isn't lieing. Just wondering what others have heard as of lately.

posted by  Pythias

Its the retirees and the greedy current workers wanting more expensive health benefits. Not too mention they dont know how to manage their brands very well and have flooded the now steadily declining SUV market. They have all this supply and not enough demand.

The stock market wont crash if they do go bankrupt. They are just one company out of many.

posted by  Oomba

There is no way the market will crash over a car company.

posted by  GonnaDie4TheGov

GM sales have been lackluster for a while (why do you tihnk they have been doing that employee discount for how long now? half a year?). GM needs to wisen the hell up, they produce virtually the same identical vehicles in several different brands.

Here's my plan for GM to to revive itself...

-Sell the Chevrolet Uplander/Pontiac SV6/Buick Terraza/Saturn Relay in one damn brand name. We dont need 4 of the same van in different brands. Then redesign it to make it a van people would actually buy over a Sienna or Odyssey.


Chevrolet
-Build more cars like the HHR and new Corvette, cars that will REALLY sell.

-Scrap the Chevrolet SSR, Malibu MAXX and the Aveo.

-Want the new Impala SS and Monte Carlo SS to really sell? Make 'em RWD (might lose cost but vastly increase interest in the brand).

-Redesign the interiors to be a little less cheap in everything.

-Give the Malibu, Equinox and Colorado better engines.

-Go turbo with the next Cobalt SS.


Pontiac
-The G6 and Torrent will be a flop in a year, scrap it while you can.

-The Solstice is gods answer for saving Pontiac. Good job there.

-Make the GTO less boring on the outside, differentiate more from the Holden model.

-The Vibe was a good idea. Toyota engines last forever.

-Grand Prix still needs a makeover if you want to compete better.


GMC
-Serves no purpose, scrap the brand.


Buick
-Move what vehicles you can to the Pontiac line and redesign them. Then scrap the brand.

-In the move just dump the Rendezvous/Terraza/Lacrosse and Lesabre. Keep the Rainier and Lucerne.


Cadillac
-Why bother with the new DTS?

-SRX sales arent as good as they used to be, amp it up.

-STS is good, build the CTS better like it.

-XLR wasn't such a hot idea, people will just buy the Corvette.


Saturn
-Ion isnt living up to expectations, redesign it.
-L300 needs a redesign badly.
-Vue could use a makeover, keep the Honda 3.5L in it though, dont put in the new GM 3.9L.
-Relay, scrap.
-Go turbo with the next Ion Redline.
-Sky, thank you Saturn for making a vehicle I'd even buy.


Hummer
-For some reason there is always a deman for H2's, the H3 was a good idea for people who cant afford the H2.


Saab
-Saab has been in a world of hurt, redesign everything and improve the quality.


Isuzu
-Scrap the brand.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Just to add, the stock market wont crash because 1 of the 500 Fortune 500 companies went down. They have 499 others to fall back on :thumbs:

posted by  thunderbird1100

[QUOTE=thunderbird1100]GM sales have been lackluster for a while (why do you tihnk they have been doing that employee discount for how long now? half a year?). GM needs to wisen the hell up, they produce virtually the same identical vehicles in several different brands.

I was just telling you what he thought would happen to the stockmarket if this did happen. Also they have had the employ discount becuase of sales yes but I believe the small more gas efficient cars that honda and others make is almost just as much to blame for the bad sales of GM as anything else, maybe I'm wrong but it's simply my opinion I have summed up after looking at everything I know.

posted by  Pythias

I have to agree with you on the Solstice and Sky, amazing cars.

posted by  Oomba

I think it's more of GM selling the same thing in different brands and expanding that in the past years. That's what has finall;y caught up to them. Honda and Toyota have been around for 2 decades really hurting GM sales, GM did this to themselves more than Honda or Toyota did. But yes, the superior vehicles Honda/Acura has to offer over GM certainly doesnt help GM sales.

posted by  thunderbird1100

I agree 100% so many of their cars look so alike (Chevy) the grand am grand prix G6 and the GTO even, or at least the 05' all looked to be almost the same outer shells. Not only that but it seems as if they have been lacking in the redesigning department. Lets take Ford for example and the Mustang restyling. I'll jsut start with 1987-1993 1994-1998 2000-2004 2005- those are the years I believe of their restyling and the Mustang has done pretty well. They had the Camaro the same style for 10 years? no wonder they had to stop it and wait to redesign it. All I want to knwo is why they didn't redesign it sooner instead they discontinued it for 3 years or so then come out with a new design. Seems pretty dumb to me. Cars get bland and look old after awhile. As for the grand prix's and grand am's I think they look horrible but tis' only my opinion. I think a big thing is them not restyling/redesigning their cars enough.



Edit: I just looked up the Sky, looks sweet but I LOVE Dual exhaust and in my opinion almost any car looks better with it, even if it doesn't serve a great purpose.

posted by  Pythias

Well Chevrolet/GM arent the only ones making 'copy' cars or 'look alikes' to another model they already have, look at Chrysler lately, they have the Sebring, 300C, Charger.. and they all look kinda similar (especially from the back).

posted by  car_crazy89

Your right but the grand prix and grand am are almost identical as for the G6 I don't know, but in my opinion the grand prix grand am G6 and gto look more alike.

posted by  Pythias

http://www.newscoast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050311/ZNYT01/5031107 58/-1/API

posted by  Wally

What makes me mad is how GM sells the same car with three different badges. Anyone remember the BLAZER/JIMMY/BRAVADA of the 90's??? They were essentially the same damn thing with a different badge, grille, maybe headlights, and thats it. Today, its the Trailblazer/Envoy/Rendezvous. Why not make one truck with different trim levels instead of 3 with the same trim levels?

posted by  elchango36

Maybe not in the consumer market but it does serve a purpose in the commercial market.



It will probably come to that.

Back in the days, the strategy was to offer similar vehicles under different brands to attract different buyers. This allowed the OEMs to save costs by making many of the same body style. Then by changing out the interior, font end, and rear end they would have a car that appealed to different buyers.

In today's market, people are looking for more individualized vehicles. Thus the OEMs have to switch from mass production to flexible assembly lines that make cars as the customer wants them. This is not as easy as one may think.

I read recently that GM will be paring down it's car lines. They are going to be narrowing the scope of each brand so that it appeals to certain demographics more so than they do now. They are talking about not sharing the same body style between brands. Example, if Chevy has the Trailblazer, no other brand will have that body style. It could also mean that Chevy may not have a full sized pickup truck anymore because that may go over to GMC. Of course this is all talk right now. If I find the article, I will post the link.

posted by  theman352001

If the gas efficient cars from Honda and others are hurting them that much, maybe they need to take a queue from them and build similar cars... At least thats what I would do if I was in charge.

posted by  TheFieroKid

You mean the 300, magnum and charger? The Sebring looks nothing thos, looks closer to a stratus but it's still far from that.

GM can be more accused than any manufacturer for producing the same vehicle i ndifferent brands.

posted by  thunderbird1100

[QUOTE=theman352001]Maybe not in the consumer market but it does serve a purpose in the commercial market.
[QUOTE]

I was talking about our consumer market. What you buy at the dealers. Not any other market.

posted by  thunderbird1100

The Firebird/Camaro didnt sell well, thats why they halted production. Plus it was costing them too much money to assemble them in the Canadian plant, which they are contractually bound to do. The reason they hesitate on a new F-body is because if they were to make one under the Firebird/Camaro name, they would be forced to assemble them in Canada.

posted by  Oomba

87-93? try 79-93 for a whopping 14 years on the same body...

camaro styling, for the record, was 67 to 70-1/2, 70-1/2 to 81, 82-92, and 93-02. not that bad...




when was this that camaro production stopped for 3 years?

posted by  dodger65

I figured you were only concerned with the consumer market. However, you had a plan for GM as a whole. It would not be wise to ignore the commercial market. It can be a very lucrative venture that can help to fund other projects.



That is because they had more brands than the other OEMs. They were capitalizing on economies of scale and that worked for a number of years. That is why they were the largest vehicle manufacturer for a number of years. Ford did it too and still does. Grand Marquis/Crown Vic. Taurus/Sable Mariner/Escape. Chrysler does it too. It just made businsess sense in the markets of the 80's and 90's.

Now they are finding out that the markets have shifted and they are struggling to change with them. Once they get it figured out, they will bounce back again like they have in the past.

Hopefully they will also learn something so that next time they can take it to the imports before they take it to us. :thumbs:

posted by  theman352001

From what I know they are comming out with the new camaro in 2007.... 2004-2007... 3 years. As for 87-93 I know it went on longer, when I said i'll just start with 87 that was because that year they made small changes which made the grille a little better and some other things...

posted by  Pythias

2007 Camaro

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/GonnaDie4TheGov/camero1.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/GonnaDie4TheGov/camaro2.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/GonnaDie4TheGov/2007CameoBack.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/GonnaDie4TheGov/2007CameoTop.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/GonnaDie4TheGov/2007CameoFront.jpg
Looks pretty nice i guess....i wouldn't buy it though

posted by  GonnaDie4TheGov

It'd cost them to much to release a new Camaro. I doubt theyre going to go ahead with it in the state theyre in now.

posted by  Oomba

Yeah, that's why the VW Beetle and Porsche 911 sold so poorly, huh? The beetle had interchangeable body and chassis parts from '47 until '77 in the US, and until the last one rolled off the Mexican line in 200 or so. And teh 911 used the same chassis from '63-90+ (major panels like doors and glass interchanged throughout the original run). there's no real reason for a car to change radically every couple of years.

posted by  ChrisV

That camaro looks like a winner to me. Along with teh new solstice, GM should slowly start turning it around. Ford is already on track with the new mustang, fusion, and freestyle.

posted by  importluva

how 'bout 2002-2007 instead? :wink2: 5 years...

posted by  dodger65

My bad your right :-p for some reason I had 04' stuck in my head I think because when i was lookin at 04's a year ago there was no camaro or somethin

posted by  Pythias

s'ok, i'm kinda an f-body fan...

posted by  dodger65

I'm an F-body junkie.

Where ma 350's at boyee?

posted by  Oomba

I agree Ford is doing better than GM, but the Freestyle is nothing to write home about and the Fusion is just a step better than Taurus was, still no Accord Camry or Altima beater.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Yes, can someone tell me why they now have the Excursion Expedition Explorer Escape and now the Freestyle? Am I missing something? Why do they have so many different SUV's I can understand having 3 different ones but not 5...

posted by  Pythias

The excursion is out of production as of this coming model year. But yeah, I think it's rediculous too. I also think way too many people have bought Explorers over the years and there are so many better SUV's out there to choose from (ie, Honda Pilot).

posted by  thunderbird1100

I have never ridden in one or anything but from my experience with explorer's I love them. And I figured osmethin was gonna happen with the Excursion soon because of gas prices and all.

posted by  Pythias

My freind has an Excursion, and I like riding in it, you feel like you're on top of the world in that thing.

posted by  jedimario

Sorry I meant about the Honda Pilot because he was saying how nice they were compared to explorer's

posted by  Pythias

just look at the quality of vehicles GM has now, compared to 20 years ago. same thing with toyota, its not hard to see what company is better and will remain that way, who wants to buy something that is going to prolly crap out past the warranty. people are starting to get smart and think for the long run, why buy GM when you know you will get a quality vehicle for a little extra with toyota etc?
I think its a matter or GM realizing and being able to afford to make that next step in time, if not i would definitely say that i would be alive to see gm burn to the ground.

posted by  cowman85

What bothers me the most about the current trend in the car market is gas mileage. Think back to the small cars of the 80's from both japan & the US......

I had a 84 Nissan Sentre that no matter how hard you drove it, it got 40+ MPG. And it had a carb. With modern tech, there is no reason the small cars should be any less...... now they make a big deal out of anything that gets better than 25. And how about the CRX-HF, hell, it got near 50MPG.

All of the Hybrid talk if great, but something has gotten lost over time. I agree with the previous posts.... Build some cars that people will actually buy, make then RWD, make 'em fast, then build some slow with high MPG's for the Go Green folks, and while your at it build trucks that are meant to work in, loose the power heated leather seats, Vinyl bench with a rubber floor mat, powerful V8 with 4WD.....

The US car makers really need to sit down and take a long hard look at what we want ----- "if you build it they will come"

:2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:

posted by  corbett_auto

Hybrids aren't even all that great. My father had a brand new V6 avalon which averaged 30hwy and 24city. Then he bought a 4cyl camry hybrid and got 35mpg. I expected 40 or more but nope, smaller car with a 4cyl hybrid motor only got 5mpg over the bigger body v6.
As far as GM going under. I doubt it. I think we'll see chrysler and GM join up before that happens. But it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

posted by  DBain

In the UK you we two generally different views. we have those who want fast cars and don't care about the MPG, and we have those who don't care so much about the performance and want high miles to the gallon. Then we have those who want all the speed etc, but still want the good consumption...I'm of the latter view, although I'm at the point now whereby I'd happily drive an 850cc Daewoo Matiz and get 50mpg, because I recent paying even the strangely low price of 86.9p per litre of fuel at the pumps.

It's obvioulsly a different way of working accross the pond, but in the UK most modern cars return upwards of 40mpg, with some family sized diesel models returning upwards of 60mpg. Infact, the only cars we have that do 25mpg are the Subaru Imprezas and high end Mercs of this world.

posted by  Cliffy

After having this discussion on other car boards, it's been reasoned that the problem is safety, nvh, and emissions that are at the root of that issue. Crash structures, air bags, better brakes, etc, all contribute to heavier cars at the same size point. Quieter cars require more sound deadening and stiffer structures, which raise weight. Higher weight requires more power to move, so lower mpg. And meeting ever lower emissions requires some changes that often affect mpgs, as well.

A CRX HF got great fuel mileage, but isn't as safe in a crash as a modern Smart, and it's much tinnier and less comfortable than a new Fit (which is also quicker, stops better and handles better, and is more useful overall as a car than that HF).

posted by  ChrisV

There.... you make my point. What if someone does not want: quick, quite, and/or handleling? What if all I/you/anyone want is high MPG? Or Speed? Car companies continue to offer cars with multiple badges that mean very little. What I would like to see is make the little letters after the model mean something.... take a car platform and do more than just add foglights, pin stripes, etc. Build one with no frills High MPG, build one with luxury interior, build one with no frills speed & handleling, etc... You could label them HF (high fuel), HE (high end), HS (High Sport).

Does this not make sense to anyone else?

posted by  corbett_auto

Please read the following before continuing this thread...

New Thread (http://car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?p=263000#post263000)

posted by  Cliffy

Not enough buyers to make it feasable. Simply put. The kind of person that wants to get by as cheaply as possible, isn't going to spend extra money to buy NEW anymore.

posted by  ChrisV

GM is doing good compared to alot of the competitors, i believe they still have more market share than ford and toyota did have the majority of the market share but i don't expect anyone to do well with selling anything that is brand new. nobody has money i am one of those people

posted by  51chevrolet

GM isn't doing good. Even with the bailout money (that Ford didn't take) they are heading towards bankruptcy quite rapidly.

posted by  ChrisV

There was talk of GM getting rid of some of its business, Saab being one name that keep cropping up. Bear in mind this was from a UK perspective, rather than Globally.

posted by  Cliffy

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