12-16 mpg???

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have a 96 dodge avenger es (6cyl) and im getting about 12-16 mpg... i know its a big engine and all... but 12-16mph??? whats that? could this be a problem somewhere or is it really that bad? thanks

posted by  tikrapt

That is pretty bad. Thats about what I average, and I'm running super rich with bad plugs and wires.

PS- Theres a possible fix right there

posted by  OombaIsBack

anything you can think of?

posted by  tikrapt

He said plugs and wires...is your air filter clean?

posted by  newyorker

Have you looked at your driving habits? Are you hard on the gas and hard on the brakes? The harder you are on the gas and brakes will lower your mileage.

Anyway, a quick Google search on ("1996 Avenger" gas mileage ) pulls up a bunch of hits and it looks like some mention areas to look at. :thumbs:

.

posted by  theman352001

just replaced air filter a few weeks ago. thanks again

posted by  tikrapt

Your potential choices here a pretty limited.

1. You're flogging the car mercilessly, letting it warm up when cold, idling in drive thrus, etc. I don't know what you consider a big engine but the biggest that car comes with is a medium sized V6.

2. It is possible that you have a genuine problem with the vehicle, but you would have obvious drivability issues, probably an illuminated MIL and a plume of black smoke following you around.

3. This one is my guess. You're not calculating your mileage correctly. No matter what kind of vehicle, a 25% fluctuation in fuel consumption is huge and almost unheard of. Me thinks you better look closely at your procedure or learn how to use an adding machine.

posted by  vwhobo

Not sure if this will help, as we work in litres alot of the time where fuel's concerned......but I'll just explain how I calculate MPG. Approximately atleast :thumbs:

Fill the car up from as empty as possible. Bear in mind that there is roughly 4.5litres in a gallon. Once you've filled the car up, divide the amount of litres into gallons (so 60 litres would be 13.33 gallons approx.). Then run the car as low as is safely possible, and say for example you return 400miles to the tank, your approximate MPG will be 30mpg! (400 divided by 13.33). That's the method I use, and it appears reasonably acurate...I'd only recomend using it if you know hown much fuel you're roughly using, as ya wouldn't wanna run out lol

posted by  Cliffy

But 4.535 Litres is a British gallon, an American gallon is 3.78 Litres...But I'm not sure how Americans would find out how many litres they've put in :laughing:

posted by  chris_knows

lol...that's one of the things I was confused about.....I think it's the same principal though. Just convert your measurements into gallons I guess....

posted by  Cliffy

That is an extremely inaccurate way of determining fuel consumption, not to mention the potential for running yourself out of gas. Additionally, doing it that way only gets you a snapshot from one tankfull instead of a good overall avaerage.

posted by  vwhobo

I know it's not the most acurate way of working out fuel consumption, but surely it's one of the only ways to do it? lol

posted by  Cliffy

Gee, 19.6 litres/100km. My LS1 is 12.8 l/100km averaged over 90,000 km (I never reset the trip computer from new) so I can understand your concern.

Checked your air filter lately? Carried out a tuneup?

posted by  Wally

Another thing you could always check is the MAF sensor. Just spray some electronics parts cleaner on it to clean it, you don't want to physically touch it. Also depending on miles your 02 sensor may be going out and your PCM is flogging your cylinders with fuel. Or you may have just found the absolute shittiest shit shit mixture of winter gas.

But yeah, how are you actually averaging your MPG??? Does the avenger have a D.I.C. with a readout of fuel econonmy? Pen and paper?

posted by  TokyoJoe

Moron. You don't get it, do you. If the car had an engine management issue that was causing it to get that poor of fuel mileage, the MIL would be illuminated, codes would be set and there would be black smoke following it everywhere. Think, type, submit.

EDIT: I forgot to add that the 2.5 is not a MAF engine but rather a MAP engine, as most Chrysler products are. Once more bad piece of "information" from your keyboard.

posted by  vwhobo

LOL! You are such a fag and you know everything. Since when does a shoddy used up 02 sensor set an SES light??????? If it was open meaning not getting the proper voltage readings yes it would. Not if it was just performing shitty. Ask any EFI guru or shit even a shadetree mech. about how much mileage can improve simply by switching from a DELCO sensor to a DENSO sesor or even just replacing an old one. And no a failing <---read I didn't say failED 02 sensor may not create a black cloud of smoke.

You may be right about the 2nd part because frankly I'm not sure and I can admit when I am wrong. I have both and figured it was an easy check.

You really need to shut your fag hole and stop being a little E-thug on some internet forum. It doesn't impress anyone. So take your little VW and go find Herby bitch.

posted by  TokyoJoe

Look out! Turbo Twinkie alert! Hey squiddly, how about showing me ANYWHERE that I said an O2 sensor was or even might be the cause of this problem. Can't do it, can ya? Do you know why? Because I never did. I guess being able to read and have critical thinking skills is not part of being a "Navy Electronics Technitian", your spelling, not mine (look at your profile, I did). It's pretty pathetic that the great military of our great country has to scrape the bottom of the barrel of society for people like you to fill their ranks nowadays. Can't even spell your own duty title. Sad.

Maybe if you could get your head out of your boyfriends pants long enough to actually read the post, you'd know what I actually said in it. When my wife is in Okinawa later this year, maybe I'll have her come over and bitch slap you. Nah, I wouldn't want to take you away from your shower soap dropping exercises. You are a perfect example of the term e-tard. Have a nice day.

posted by  vwhobo

Well, one thing that could be hindering your mileage somewhat is dirty fuel injectors. One of those $4 Gumout or equivalent fuel additives could help. It only claims a 2.3% average increase though, so don't expect too much unless you have extremely dirty injectors.

posted by  hondaman

??? You're not making any sense here bud. I never did. I'm the one who brought up 02 and MAF sensors and was defending my position when you called me a moron and saying that it was impossible. So again, you're not making any sense:screwy:

Get over yourself, typos happen.

Don't worry, me and your wifey already made plans to smack bellies when she comes out. But don't feel bad, she says she's still loves you, just not "in love" with you. She's got a problem with the whole impotent thing.

posted by  TokyoJoe

My wife doesn't have time to spend on little boys with big imaginations and little wee wees like you. Besides, her daddy (a retired Master Chief) told her all about the little squiddlies like you who spend their time bumping their bunkie.

Hey, wanna buy some naked pictures of your mother? Nah, you've probably got them hanging in your room already.

posted by  vwhobo

vwhobo, we are all so grateful for all the flaming that seems to erupt whenever you decide it's your right and/or responsibility to tell someone they're a complete moron (or however you put it in each particular instance) for getting one or two things wrong.

really. we are. :thumbs:

you seem like someone who does what they do for the results. in this case, the resulting thing being what? that all the people you get in flame-wars over learn something? i doubt it. i'm pretty sure it's a widely accepted fact that people dont respond well to criticism given the way you give it.

yea sure, you MAY NOT START IT, and i'm not saying you're the first to flame, but the way you do things really doesnt help anything. except for keeping the traffic here low.

posted by  pik_d

Gee, and after reading your signature block, I thought you were all about combatting ignorance.

Really, I did. :thumbs:

posted by  vwhobo

note: i edited my post a bit while you were replying.

and no, i'm not saying you dont "combat ignorance", you do correct people. and i'll give credit to the fact that you're extremely knowledgeable. but you seem to add an extra bit that just seems to create tension consistantly.

posted by  pik_d

A few weeks ago I'd have agreed with you on that. Now however, whenever I read one of hobo's responses, I see it as entertainment. Now that may or may not be how he sees it, but I think it's how most others here see it....apart from maybe the flamees lol. It does cause alot of tension, yes, and it isn't particularly nice to be flamed, but without members like vwhobo doing what he does, CF wouldn't be the same....I'm happy to lock a thread that gets outta hand, but to be honest, these days, threads seem to die naturally before that's required! The same goes for if the flamee contacts me and says he/she's not happy :2cents:

posted by  Cliffy

well, he also hasn't posted as much recently.

posted by  pik_d

Since you're one of those people that slides stuff in, I'll respond to the second part in another post. If the result is that they learn something great. If the result is that they stop posting bullsh*t, then that's okay too. I don't give a f*ck. The fact is that most people don't respond well to criticism EVER, especially on an online forum. The beauty of a forum is that when you call someone on their facts or statements, they can't really say "I never said that", although many will try. And if someone is willing to take the time to provide "information", then they need to also be responsible for said information, EVEN WHEN IT'S INCORRECT. Make that especially when it's incorrect.

Before you make any more of your baseless assumptions, you better check the numbers and facts. There is no more flaming when I'm around and marginally MORE traffic.

BTW, how are people supposed to respond when someone says something derogatory about their spouse, and why don't you give us your little dissertation on that? Or maybe you just have issues with intellectual honesty and fairness.

posted by  vwhobo

That's what I thought, no response to the actual topic.

But....your wife always calls me "Daddy"....well...sometimes it's "Papi" but hey whatever.

posted by  TokyoJoe

looks to me like the first insult in this thread between you and tokyojoe is you calling him a moron. he calls you a fag, you call him gay, AND you bring your wife into the situation saying you'll have her bitch slap him. THEN he says he'll have sex with your wife.

and yea... i'm "one of those people that slides stuff in," then made sure i informed you of it in my next post... how is that anything to be talking condensending about? would you rather i be "one of those people that double posts", which while it isn't against the rules (that i see), it's generally considered better to edit a post then double post. and you hadn't posted yet at the time that i decided i needed to further qualify my argument.

and about my facts and numbers... i know that i personally notice you getting into more (useless?) flame wars with newbies then anyone else. there ARE of course others who get into arguments, but none so noticiable as you.

and no, i'm not defending the newbies who flame (either first, or in response) at you. if that's all they can do, then you're right to not care if they're here or not.

EDIT: because hey, tokyojoe doesn't seem to be adding ANYTHING to the conversation himself right now. at least vwhobo corrected some people while on his warpath. oh no, i edited my post again.

posted by  pik_d

Then why would you not take 10 seconds away from the dick measuring contest and go fix it you idiot? :screwy:

posted by  Pythias

Hey Dildo. You've avoided the actual topic since your first post in the thread. The point is that you have no point, except the one on the top of your head. Your "diagnosis" couldn't be more wrong if you tried to make it so. Let's take a look at some of your "information" and "knowledge". Who was it who said;


I'll give you a hint. It was some Twink in Okinowa. Now IF you had a clue, and IF that was the case, explain to me what a "P0133" (just one example) is all about. Here are some clues to help you out. It doesn't mean the sensor has an open circuit, it doesn't mean that it has a shorted circuit, it doesn't mean that it's biased rich and it doesn't mean that it's biased lean. What does that leave? It leaves "O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 1 Sensor 1)". Do you have a clue what that means? Didn't think so.

What it means Turbo Twinkie, is that the O2 sensor is "just performing shitty" to use your words. No high or low bias, no shorts or opens, just lazy and slow... Kind of like your mental capacity. But of course any shedetree mechanic would know that. I wonder why a "Navy Electronics Technitian" like yourself wouldn't comprehend something so simple.

Bottom line Twinkie, if you ever for a moment think that you know more about OBD-II or engine management in general, come on out and play. I can't wait for your next response, which of course will be 100% on the original topic instead of verbally compensating for your inability to achieve and erection.

P.S. Only the worst of the wannabe shadetree mechanics and avid readers of I'm A Ricer Magazine call it an "SES light". In the real world where the big guys work, it's a MIL. SAE says so, ASE says so, and the OE's say so. But then you probably (think) you know more than them too. Get a f*cking clue squiddly.

posted by  vwhobo

Calling him a moron was not meant as an insult, just an honest assessment of his intelligence. And as I'm sure you've noticed by now, well deserved. :wink2:

posted by  vwhobo

I think someone just got owned....

posted by  Pythias

true enough. i'm not asking you to change (that would be plain dumb on my part), but do you at least understand my point?

posted by  pik_d

Ok, I'll buy that. What you also fail to explain is that this is the absolute worst an 02 can be without actually being physically f'd up. And still doesn't mean that the 02 won't affect mileage without setting an SES light.

And by the way since when is Tokyo "Okinowa" dumbass



That may be true, and I never claimed to know EVERYTHING about OBDII but at least I am learning. That still doesn't change the fact that my original comment on this thread was valid. Only that I was mistaken about the actual SES light.



Really? This is prob. the most blanket generalization you have ever typed and is completely false. I'll see if I can scan my Chilton's and show you where it is referred to as an SES.

BTW obviously I had to point out your typo's since that seems to be a very important issue with you.

posted by  TokyoJoe

You're talking in circles Twinkie. And I really don't care what your Chiltons says, the Society of Automotive Engineers makes the rules. Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. You should apply that thought to yourself.

posted by  vwhobo

Maybe because it is insignificant and I don't give a fuck:screwy:

posted by  TokyoJoe

Here squiddly, then give a f*ck about page 260, paragraph c, it is significant.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.go v/cfr_2004/julqtr/40cfr86.094-17.htm

Then you can take your Chiltons and stuff it up your ass. Tell your boyfriend not to be jealous.

posted by  vwhobo

Riiiiight. And I don't really care what anyone on an automotive forum, especially one as great and informative as this one, thinks of me.

See your wifey soon in "Okinowa"

posted by  TokyoJoe

Aren't you the same dumbass with the "All Motor" thread? Shut your mouth

posted by  TokyoJoe

Uh, no, you were the dumbass in the "All Motor" thread. Now you're the dumbass in this thread. I bet if I read around, I'd find out you were the dumbass in every thread you've participated in. Go Squiddly.

posted by  vwhobo

Haha....see ya Herbie

posted by  TokyoJoe

hey buddy... go change your name to vwHOMO... your a big ****ing faggit... i've been on here about a week and basically i see your name everywhere and next to it is something stupid. do you think your a genuis?? do you know everything?? no, no you dont so shut the **** up... you've turned another thread (mine) into a fight (which i dont mind because i've noticed im not the only one that thinks your a big flaming faggit). do you stay on here all day commenting in every threat ever though you know nothing about anything??? honestly do you sit there all day on here? do you?? wouldnt suprise me... remove the dildow from your ass, remove the dog from your penis (doesnt want you anyway, you dont please it), and get off your computer. if theres time after that try taking some cyanide tablets... does the body good. anyone out there wanna add anything??

posted by  tikrapt

Sure, I'll add something Twinkie. I'm sorry, the poor semi-literate little douche bag doesn't like my answer to his question, but I did answer your question. As I said to you in another post after you decided to whine about it;

posted by  vwhobo

yes. i do.

point out a thread in which he's come and said something incorrect, or where he's flamed without correcting someone.

(notice how i just got on his case, but wasn't as much of a moron as you about it, and here i am defending him from you and your dumbassery)

posted by  pik_d

Somehow I doubt he needs defense from such a half-assed post from a nooblet.

posted by  Pythias

i like this... we need more of this... fight the dumasses! (vwhomo)

posted by  tikrapt

i was not insinuating that he needed help at all. i was pointing out that vwhobo was not the only one who thought he was blindly flaming, AND that i personally dont take sides based purely on who's doing the talking.

posted by  pik_d

what the hell are you talking about??? your running toward the same status are vwhomo****

posted by  tikrapt

and how's that?

posted by  pik_d

you sound like a dumass too

posted by  tikrapt

and what have you brought to the table?

posted by  pik_d

Why don't we all just ignore tiprkrksktopatappatappa because he's obviously a flaming, post-whoring, douche bag. Generally it's unacceptable for noob's to come in and immediately disrespect the forum elders.

posted by  Sick88Tbird

Forum elders should be able to handle themselves. Venerable people like that old "faggit" VWHobo are definitely capable of handling a cyber scrap.

posted by  Wally

I was referring to you... dumbass.

posted by  Pythias

Unacceptable? If Martin Luther King rose from his grave, called me a bitch and slapped me, you best believe I'ma slap that f*cker back. Its good to respect your elders, but if they don't respect you back, f*ck them bitches.

The concept of forum "elders" is gay anyway. Hell, I'm an "elder". Respect me bitch.

posted by  What?

*bakes you a mother****in cake* :mrgreen:

posted by  pik_d

everyones gonna have to stop calling him vw homo:laughing:

and I dont even know what this arguement is about

posted by  nighthawk

but its fun... and its basically about nothing.

as for the elders thing... i dont give a flying f*ck... if your an asshole im gonna let ya know... which vwhomo is.

posted by  tikrapt

he corrects people and if said people get angry about the tone he may have used.... then an arguement is started,

I only argue to find something out or to stop the arguement

and if this is about nothing, then it should be closed:doh:

posted by  nighthawk

I can't tell you how much that hurts coming from and insignificant little know nothing twat like yourself. How will I ever go on in life. Woe is me. :sleep:

posted by  vwhobo

fagittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

posted by  tikrapt

Ok, this has gone on long enough. I thought this might die by itself, but it's clearly not going to with idiots like yourself and 'What' replying to it!

posted by  Cliffy

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