What do you all think about the Pontiac GTO?
I just wanted to know the opinion(s) of those that are really into Domestic
Cars on the new GTO. I personally think that GM just ripped off Holden, but
I want to know what other people think about it.
Now I will admit that it is a beast. (V8 and all) And it has so pretty "interesting" styling, but I just dont think that it really lives up to the GTO name.
Tell me wat yall think! Thanks!
Well this is the year 2004, we are no longer in the muscle car era. There is no way the car can live up to the name of the GTO, but for a modern cars I think its pretty damn good. The stylng is nice and it should suit very well for the GTO. But no new american car will ever be as good as the old ones. Look at the new Malibus and Impalas... Again its a great car, just redesigned to fit out needs of today not 30 years ago :thumbs:
I'm assuming no one has heard of the Lingenfelter Goat. It's a modified GTO, and makes 450 hp and 395 ft/lbs of torque. It costs $50,000.
I'll get a vette not a gto if I'm paying 50k screw lingenfelter(even thought there lingenfelter vette is godly :hi: )
Holden is a GM division. GM can't "rip off" one of it's own divisions. The
original GTO was a big engine in a mainstream Tempest (which was just a
basic intermediate coupe, built from the Chevy Malibu chassis). it was
relatively crude, and didn't really look any different than other GM cars
of the day. Hell, the LAST two GTOs we got were sticker packages on
emissions strangled Le Mans models in '72-73, and on the Pontiac version of
the Nova in '74!
The new GTO outperforms EVERY other production Pontiac GTO ever built in every direction: accelleration, top speed, cornering, ride, ergonomics, build quality, emissions, and fuel mileage. How a car that is actually a better car in every way "doesn't live up to the original" is a mystery to me.
GM finally delivered to the US a product enthusiasts have been asking for for a while: a cleanly styled (not overly coated with cladding) coupe, with room for 4 adults, well built and styled interior, a powerful engine, and sorted, good handling RWD chassis with IRS, for less money than the European coupes of similar power outputs. And now kids complain that it isn't a stickered up Judge with huge hood scoops.
Well and good for you, but what about people that want a well rounded, quality built coupe that holds more than 2 people????
I know that... I just think that they could have come up with something
As to the 50K cars... get a STi... woops both of there asses... plus the 20K you save you could put into mods for the STi... and then REALLY OWN THERE ASSES! :thumbs: :laughing: :2cents: :mrgreen: :hi:
They didn't come up with something "completely new" the first time around.
The GTO is exactlythe kind of car we've ben wanting the domestic
manufacturers to provide us. They don't need to make performance cars at
all, and bitching about the best one they've yet delivered is just
Actually, in either case, if I'm going to blow the warranty, I'd not buy ANY new car, as for the same money, you can make an old car perfrom much better.
And considering how Subaru and Mitsubishi are now going after anyone who even autocrosses their new WRXs and Evos, and denying ALL warranty coverage, regardless of whether it could have been caused by performance driving or NOT, I'll not support those companies in anything.
The GTO has more trunk space, and more interior room than the vette.
Its just a sad and desperate way for them to save money. :fu: the bastards.
Haha, damn Mitsubishi...
wait - hasn't the debate about the GTO been done before? :doh:
Well the warenty denial isnt new, In the 70's people used buy/hire shelby
mustangs and take them racing and ford wondered why they got so many sent
back for about 6 months until they found that they could find 25% of the
cars at a meet every weekend!
Have you guys seen the TVR Cerbera?
GM is looking for some revival of their classic models that we all used to love. The new GTO may be a vauxhall or a holden or whatever else it was in other countries, but so what? On my recent trip to europe, where it is known as the vauxhall monaro, I went to a dealership to check it out. The GTO has more horsepower, at 350 instead of 333 for the Monaro. GM has taken the Monaro and has upped the antie with a new pontiac-like grille, which I dare say looks great. An awesome interior with colors coded to the outside paint. I'm not a pontiac fan, and not really a GM fan (with a few exceptions), but for now, the GTO looks just fine.
Yes we have as a matter of fact cause I started that thread I do believe. As a matter or response to everything that has been said to this point, I agree with Chris. The GTO was about putting power into a modest looking car. There was nothing "new" aobut it back in th 60s so the fact that there is nothing "new" aobut them now doesn't seem to make sense. "but I just dont think that it really lives up to the GTO name" i just don't understand this comment Steveo :confused:
There's a serious difference between denying all coverage of all the car
(including features that couldn't be affected by performance driving) for
AUTOCROSSING use (for even ENTERING an event) and denying warranty coverage
on a broken part after racing on a road race track, wheel to wheel, at high
Sorry, autocrossing is a low speed event (usually under 60 mph) one car at a time against the clock. Generally little more stress is put on the car than performance street driving will. Which is why most manufacturers not only don't have a problem with it, but many actually SPONSOR it. Dodge, Porsche, GM, BMW, VW, Ford, Mazda, etc, all have cars that are specifically designed to do well out there, and have no problem warrantying their cars.
If Mitsu feels their ultimate supercar is so weak that autocross use is "abuse" that will break every part of the car, then they seriously need to get out of the performance car business.
And giving away an SCCA membershipo, and then denying any warranty claim to the people who take them up on the offer is just sad. Shame on Subaru for it.
So how could they pick and chose, i dont agree with it but its dificult to implement a discriminatroy stratergy.
Easy, just like any other company does it: if the damage was actually
CAUSED by the event, then deny the claim. Even then, many don't care. I
have yet to see Dodge (who is a business partner of mitsubishi, for crying
out loud!) deny warranty work for stock SRT-4s and Neon ACRs that are
autocrossed. But saying "we won't cover your power window regulator because
you were entered in an SCCA autocross" is retarded.
If your clutch burned out doing cluch dump type launches repeatedly, no warranty coverage. If your coolant temp sender goes out, they really need to prove that doing 40 mph around a few cones is what killed it. And if it IS what killed it, people ought to know that their performance car breaks rather easily if you use any of the supposed performance.
Gregg, mostly I asked cuz I dont really know much about Domestics past wat I learn in magazines because I never post in this board... just wanted to see wat those that really like domestics think of this newcomer. Sorry if I made anyone mad or anything, but I was just asking.
I don't think we were asking for it to wear the legendary GTO badge. If Pontiac or any other GM company built a Holden Monaro under a different name, it might sell a little better... although its just my opinion. The new GTO is just a little too flashy and doesn't show many muscular straight lines that are symbols of the GTO's era. All I'm saying is that Pontiac could've done better by building a brand new GTO instead of basing off of some car in Australia. :doh:
didnt we already have this convo, whats the problem with importing cars,
means they turn out cheaper at your local dealership becuase the R&D are
spread over more units etc.
Is probibly a nice car, i wil try and get a test drive next week when i go to PA.
I like the new GTO
I was going to say the exact same thing. And the difference between it and the Corvette aren't much. A 2004 Corvette Z06 runs 0-60 in around 4.0- 4.3 seconds at an MSRP of $52,985, which doesn't include tax, title, and freight costs. Motor Trend just did a test of the Lingenfelter GTO and clocked it at 4.3 seconds to 60. Same price, same times, and there isn't a GTO on every corner. Dare to be different, folks. :wink2:
Interesting. You're the first one on ANY car board I've been on that says
the new GTO is "too flashy." Everywhere else, people call it too plain and
not flashy enought to be a GTO.
And the '68-up GTOs used curved lines. the '72-73's were slow, big cars based on the Grand Le Mans, and the '74 GTOs were a sticker package on the Pontac Ventura. And by saying "basing it of of some car in Australia" you obviously know little of the modern car manufacturing world or of the reality of the Holdan and Ford offereings in Australia. Aussies have the muscleccars that the US did away with, and basing a new US musclecar off of the true ancestors of old US musclecars is an absolutely SMART business move. It gives us the kinds of cars we've been asking for (cleanly styled, high quality, V8 powered RWD coupes) very quickly and economically, and cars that, unlike the last 3 versions of the GTO, are finally NOT embarassments ot the name. The new ones are better performers in every category: speed, handling, braking, quality, ergonomics, emissions, crash safety.
That is exactly what we (the automotive community) have been asking for for YEARS.
Now if Ford would get off their ass and bring us the Aussie Falcon, we'd have a great musclecar era again (to go with the GTO and the Chrysler Hemi cars...)
I think GM is trying to put itself out of business with the way it's treating it's line of cars. The GTO to me is a big joke by GM. It's not a muscle car. It's not even an American car (the car is a Holden Monaro with a changed gas tank). The GTO is slow and heavy. The only thing they have going with it is the interior (which is probably helped out alot by the Australian influence and NOT by GM) and the handling (which again is attributed to the Aussie platform and not GM). GM stuffs the 350hp Ls1 in there like they've had in the C5 for 7 years and its slow due to it's 3700lb curb weight. High 13s with the 6spd manual and low 14s with the automatic. Let's see here. For $33k I can get a four door Evo MR which runs high 12s, handles as good if not better than a Z06 and is obviously much cheaper on insurance. Also the Evo is an exclusive car. The new GTO is just an Australian Clone. Nope, don't like it.
I have sat in and seen the GTO several times, and my boyfriend drove one this weekend saying it was incredible. Wicked fast and very fun to drive. Possibly a next car for us!
I STRONGLY agree with you there. The Ford Falcon FPV F6 XR-6T Typhoon is an absolute beast, and only has a 4 liter engine.
I don't think the XR6 and XR8 would sell good over here. While they are kick ass cars. They cost too much to compete. USD on a XR6 last I read was in the upper part of $30k and XR8 was well into the $40k region. Sorry, but who would buy a $45k Ford?
The 4 door Evo has a boy racer image, a crappy warranty if you ever try to
use it as a performance car, has low quality build, and is not a
comfortable cruiser. The GTO is all of those things, and is faster than any
GTO ever made. it outperforms every PREVIOUS GTO in accelleration, top
speed, handling, comfort, fuel mileage, emissions, and build quality.
The GTO at 3700 lbs weighs about what a late '60s musclecar did. But doesn't have to be stripped down, noisy, and rattly to do it.
It just shows how little you know of musclecars if you think a 13 second quarter mile is slow. it used to take a big block with suspension designed for straight line accelleration to do that. Now a supposedly low power small block is doing it in a car that handles much better.
BTW, a Holden IS a GM product. It isn't some separate comapny that GM is partnering with, so saying that it's interior doesn't have GM influence is silly. That said, Australia is the home for the modern musclecar. When GM and Ford had to quit making them in the US for insurance reasons, they kept making them in Australia. thay are as much musclecars as any domestic version running around the US in the '60s.
But way to be closed minded. Gotta love it whne supposed automotive enthuisiasts find reasons to put down cars specifically built for automotive enthusiasts.
If I had the money, I would buy the XR-6T Typhoon in a heartbeat. I'm not sure how much Skyline GST V-Spec (or whatever it is) costs, but I'm sure it's well over $30,000 as well.
Ok, let me get this through your head. Since when is a SPORTS CAR a MUSCLE
CAR. IT isn't. The GTO is geared to be a sports car now. You could say a
split between a pony car and sports car...but nonetheless it handles well
given it's weight. A Muscle car doesnt handle well, is mid-sized and has a
Big Block engine. The GTO can only fit one of those three - must bes to be
a muscle car. The Viper is more of a muscle car than the GTO. The GTO is
built on a sports car platform.
On the topic of the EVO...the EVO MR is a nicer version of the Evo...better interior and exterior updates (along with the added power to run high 12s). The Evo MR along with the STi can be placed in the same price bracket as the GTO. Both of those cars simply DOMINATE the GTO in every performance aspect. All while still being four doors, getting better gas mileage and having the ability to go off-road and actually be safe in bad weather conditions. Both are heavily based off their WRC rally counterparts (The STi more in suspension while the EVO more in engine). Those are racing inspired enthusist cars. Also, WHO THE HELL cares about warrenties on these cars? Do you know that probably 80% of the owners have already VOIDED the warrenty by modding it. Hell the EVO RS is going to almost all racing leagues (mainly SCCA). So to use they have a 'bad warrenty' is crap. No one cares if they came with a 3,000 mile warrenty or a 300,000 mile warrenty. Plus if anything, the GM by-product would need the longer warrenty. The GTO is what I like to call a 'lets see how many people we can trick' car. It brings back hardly any of the old GTO aspects other than probably weight. Which after 30-40 years you would think they could improve over the all steel and iron GTO but i guess not. I know a few old GTO owners and they wouldn't want a new GTO is given to them. They think it's a disgrace by GM to bring back the GTO name, and nothing really relevant about the old car. The GTO isn't a muscle car. GM claimed it itself that the GTO is a measure to pickup on lost sales with the Camaro SS and T/A. Since when were pony/sports cars, muscle cars?
I know Holden is a GM brand. The fact I was using is GM can't even make up their own platform to use for a new GTO. They could of used the old F-body platform for the kind of car they wanted to put-out. Instead they chose to use an Australian counter-part car and modify it's gas tank and call it a brand new GTO. :tard:
gto............ over here (where it was born) we call it a holden monaro
and there is nothing special about it, quite ugly and sluggishly slow
infact but there are worse like most other cars in the holden line up. the
aussie FORD on the other hand is an other matter when holden or gm can
match that you americans would be proud to slap a pontiac badge on it. by
the way holden and gm are NOT THE SAME business's but are owned by the same
and the gto was a counterpart of the 2 working together, an aussie car with an american badge.................
Jeez, don't you just hate British(European) people? They originated the
english language; yet over half of them can't properly speak or write it.
What the hell is up with your post? You should probably try to re-write
that in a more readable manner.
Oh and for a further note, being owned by the same company(GM owns Holden not someone owns Holden and GM) is practicly being the same. Look at a Chevy Cobalt and Saturn Ion. Or some of the Ford engines uses in Jaguars. Nissans and Infiniti's in over 80% of their models use the VQ35DE or some version of it.
I find it interesting that so many people use search, and it comes up with REALLY old threads, even ones I made! :screwy: