C6 'vette

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Well, from a european point of view im a bit confused, granted its better than the C5 at being a sports car, but the vette never has been a sports car more a gt.

Feels like its trying to be something its not.

Things that dont make sence, it has leaf springs, they may be carbon fibre but there still leaf springs.

The engine is still in the front, which isnt the best for handeling.

Now i know that you would have me belive that muscle cars dont need to be technically advanced, and that they were built for straight line speed. But there are so many cars quicker than it is rediculous.

the handeling is still vague, the ride to soft, the gear change agracultural. so carbon firbre, but a dark age design, you you tell me guys!

posted by  cinqyg

I do hope you have driven it, cinqyg. Most of your comments are worthless if you haven't driven it and experienced it yourself.

Oh, and if you saw Top Gear's review of the C6, you will find that they think the ride too harsh (ofcourse, they equipped the C6 with the Z package).

Also, i am very curious to know which cars are faster than the C6 in the same price range? Which of those cars can handle as well as the C6, turn the same times in Nurburgring as the C6 has...?

I can't believe i am actually defending a domestic, but the C6 is an amazing car, a blend of old and new that has definitely ruffled the feathers of porsche and many others. I can't even imagine what the Z06 version will be capable of.

posted by  importluva

who says front engines arent the best for handling? watcha smoking? well known fact mid-engined ones are harder to control, specially at higher speeds.

posted by  Inygknok

Just becuase they are harder to control doesnt mean that they arnt quicker.

Front engined cars are also more prone to understeer. and when they are rear wheel drive you just get a pendulem effect.

I havent driven the C6 but i have riden in it, i dont think that the ride is harsh i think its to soft if anything. The TVR Tuscan is the same money and quicker. And yeah i have driven a tuscan. Infact the VX220 turbo is less money and quicker than the C6 around a track like silverstone, brand hatch or goodwood.

posted by  cinqyg

problem...neither of these cars are sold in the States. :doh:

posted by  SuperJew

Yup they are, well the TVR is anyway. Who cares if they are sold in the usa ne way, if you want one you import it just like we import the C6.

You cant have a debate online about cars and expect to continue to orbit in your little introverted american spheres.

posted by  cinqyg

The C6 is a VERY capable sports car..it holds a full G on the skidpad (like it's C5 sibling) and will outhandle most anything on the road. The leaf springs on it (if i remember correctly) are placed parallel to the axle...which isn't like on trucks. The engine is great. Winner in my book.

posted by  thunderbird1100

um...check again. TVRs are not sold in the US. neither are Vauxhalls.

and its not that easy (or cheap) to import...besides, im just saying that us Americans don't have those choices that supposedly spank the corvette...we have the corvette. thats it.

posted by  SuperJew

TVR Tuscan...not very impressive in my book.

The TVR, if im correct, has approx 380hp and considerably less torque (~330?). The power is not overwhelming and hardly impressive, relative to the C6 (400hp 400 tq). The only reason it can turn 4.x 0-60 times is b/c of it's weight. Im sure that a lot of essentials have to be sacrificed in order to obtain such low gross weight (safety features like ABS and traction control, sound reduction, ride quality, ammenities). If the above is true, the TVR is hardly superior to the C6...in my book. Also, reliability seems to be an issue, as well as recent re-sale value b/c of poor reliability.

posted by  importluva

The Z07 version of the C6 has rumors of bringing back the 427cu inch. It was a special option in 1968 the L88 Corvette 7.0L 550HP and 470ft-lbs!! If the Z07 comes with a 427 estimated to be around 575HP with 3 valves per cylinder. The Z06 is really high up for 0-60mph times its quick off the line. 3.9 seconds. The Enzo being 3.3? and costing ur whole life fortune not worth it, twin turbo a vette and it'll take any enzo u bring to it. Ligenfelter vette 1.97seconds twin turbo 427cu inch. I do believe the Corvette is one of the best cars in the world keeping in mind its price!

posted by  speedy266

I don't understand why you say that front-engined cars are poor for handling then go on to compare it with another front engine rear drive car. The 'vette uses a transaxle mounted in place of the standard rear axle to help balance weight. As far as understeer, most road racers prefer a little understeer, it's more predictable. and with rear drive, if you want some oversteer its as simple as leaning on the throttle a little more. Just because the vette is using a transverse carbon fiber leaf spring suspension doesn't mean it can't handle well..I'm assuming your used to trailing arm and 4 link rear suspensions with struts. The 'vette is a very potent vehicle especially when you take into consideration the price tag. I could see you saying that the suspension is soft in your opinion, when compared to other high-dollar cars we don't have here in the US...but have you ever ridden in the vette down rough bumpy back roads in the US(makes cobblestone seem friendly)...I don't think so. As far as car magazines saying that the 'vettes suspension is too harsh, well they're talking about for a daily driver.

*my opinion*
the vette is spot on for handling, acceleration, speed, and braking

posted by  Sick88Tbird

who mentioned the words trailing arms, coil over shock double wishbone is a more effective way for geting truely vertical movement. Trailing arm setup tend to give you alot of raidial movement which when the tie bars are projecting forward is detremental to braking and aclaration due to suspention travel.

In relatio to compareing the TVR with the C6 then i think you are calling the C6 something that it is not. As i said earlier the C6 is more of a Sports tourer than a sports car, in a sports car you dont need sound insulation, air con, power steering. The TVR is a monocoque space frame with partail stressed cabin bucket which removes the comparively heavy ladder chaisis that the vette uses.

I think we have confimed that all out power is not really the issue within the sphere of sports cars its power to weight ratio.

I have spoken to TVR and they said that they are prefecltly happy to import a car into the usa for any customer that wished it. They could also arange for the car to be maintained in 43 states. The maintaience is relaivley simple as the engine is based on the buick 215.

You can import a car for $1000, you dont have to pay the VAT, so that instanly saves you 17.5% you have to pay 7% import duty. you just pick it up at your local port or have it delivered same as if you were buying any pother car in the usa, then register it just like you would otherwise and your done.

As vauxhall is GM then they would be able to maintain the VX220 at your local GM dealer just as if you buy and import a vette you can take it to your local vauxhall dealer, they even honner the warenties etc.



One point that i pick up on here is that all you seem to talk about is 0-60, this is hardly an indication of its track performance unless you just drive on a perfectly flat level road around and around the globe.

Now as i am not aware of any road or track which competes a circumfernce of the globe then i am unsure how you can never turn a corner.

posted by  cinqyg

BTW, I heard that Nikolai Smolensky wants to broaden the production and selling TVRs officially in the US and other countries soon. (?) :smoke:

posted by  lutz

so why do you compare the two?

posted by  SuperJew

becuase it seems that alot of people think that the c6 is a sports car and that its the best thing since sliced bread.

posted by  cinqyg

well, you Brits always have been more about finesse than raw plant-your-ass-in-the-seat acceleration like us power hungry Americans. For the price and availability(most people don't know you can get cars imported for cheap) the 'vette pretty much is the best thing since sliced bread to us Americans. It doesn't matter if to most americans if you have a 3 ton vehicle...as long as it's got an assload of power...henceforth the Ford Lightning and the Ram SRT-10.

Man, no wonder people came in search of new land, you Brits are overbearing!...lol, just breakin' your stones man.

posted by  Sick88Tbird

i would say its a sports car......coupe......350ci V8.......immaculate handling suspension(with slalom races to prove its sovereignty)......runs high 12's STOCK......can be modded relativly inexpensively to be one of the fastest street legal cars (Lingenfelter)(not sure on price but def under 150,000)......well $150,000 is alot of money but compared to the price of exotics like lambos and feraris.....so in my book that is nothing short of a sports car.

posted by  Pac127

It's actually 346 cubic inches and 'vettes aren't cheap to modify. You also have to look at it from the other view...imagine you were spoiled, used to driving hand built stripped down super cars from the UK. The vette would seem weak. To us Americans it's the performance bench-mark.

posted by  Sick88Tbird

it is very affordable to modify ls1's VERY. so so much you can do. there are web sites that are devoted to only selling ls1 aftermarket parts. for less than 10 grand you can make ir run in the 10's while maintaining street manners.......people do it all the time. show me some street mannered UK cars runnin 10's WITHOUT turbos or superchargers.

posted by  Pac127

Or, you could pay $10k less, get two more doors, pull the same times, same skidpad, better slalom, and get an Evo MR :mrgreen:

posted by  thunderbird1100

Well, I dont know about U.K. cars...but here's something to think about...

1g AWD DSM - $3,000
oldest C5 - $20,000

1g AWD DSM to get into the 10s - $8,000
oldest C5 to get into the 10s - $10,000 (according to you..assuming w/o Forced induction)

Totals:

1g AWD DSM - $11,000
oldest C5 - $30,000

DSM = OWNS again :mrgreen:

posted by  thunderbird1100

why don't you compare cars from the same year? I don't think there was a brand new 1g DSM in 1997...

posted by  importluva

why don't you compare cars from the same year? I don't think there was a brand new 1g DSM in 1997... Also, you are comparing an AWD to a RWD...apples to oranges.

posted by  importluva

:stupid:

I was very disappointed with Top Gear's review, they obviously had a bias against the car in favor of their beloved TVR. Regardless, the C6 is perfect for the American market.

posted by  importluva

I'd like to start by saying that 10 grand isn't considered "cheap" or "affordable" for most people..."hey look here! I just found 10g's mixed in with my pocket lint!" Modding an LS1 in a f-body isn't that bad, but when it's in a vette things get pricey-i.e. headers, exhaust systems, cold air kits, etc.

Second...that quoted statement above, which was made by Pac is bullsh!t. Ligenfelter vettes run 9's and use turbos. You CAN make an LS1 vette run 10's all motor but it will not "maintain street manners"...it's going to lope like a son of a bitch at idle, it's not going to have much power under 3000rpm(and that's being generous), and its going to be LOUD. They often use the term "streetable" which means it can be driven on the street if you work hard enough at it. 'Vettes running 10's while "maintaining street manners" must use forced induction(or nitrous), otherwise it'll just be the biggest pain in the ass to drive.

posted by  Sick88Tbird

Because a 97 AWD DSM for one was less reliable. But, even if i did compare, that last figure would only jump up about $7k to $18k....still, a lot less.

posted by  thunderbird1100

And thats why I hate american motorsporsts, and most american sports cars. Over here were all about drag racing. I'm sorry but thats just incredibly boring to me. You mash the gas and hold the steering wheel straight. You could train a monkey to do the job, In europe actual skill is required to drive cars. Which is why there cars arent gas guzzling "plant-your-ass-in-the-seat-" V8s. While us americans were trying to figure out how to get a few more cubic inches and a bigger displacement, Eurpopeans were trying to figure out how to solve there oversteer problems and squeeze some more boost out of their turbos. Its no wonder why americans only go straight, lets see a 4 second funny car try to race on a track...

And then americans finally did turn, but only left. NASCAR is a horrible sport. Rally racing is where its at. Those cars are so fast and can actually turn. The races are exciting and fast paced. In Nascar people hope for something to crash to add to the excitement, in rally thats not necessary.

So the brits win this argument of opinions, their sports cars are cooler.

posted by  Zalight

Do my ears decive me or are is there a american who agrees with me.

In the uk we even use american V8's well in a way for some of our racing, There is even a company over here that makes chevy 350's but entirely of advanved materials so you end up with 600bhp of useable power and it only weighs 2/3 the weight of your standard 350. We then make a titianiam or aluminum space frame chasis or even a monocoque composite then mount the engine to a fliped 911 gearbox and you end up with a light weight affordable midengined rear wheel drive track machine. Look at the Ultima for example. That costs no more than a C6.

posted by  cinqyg

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