A few questions

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Alright guys, I have a few questions, but before I go on, realize I don't know anything about cars, which is why I'm here. I don't want to be another "CF B*tch" like 351ci-Mustang. So anyway, I'll go on :D

The car is a 1992 Camaro RS, it has the V6 3.1L Engine. Yes, I know it's slow, forgive me :D - Anyway, I'm wondering if any of you have 3rd gen F-Bodies, preferably Camaro's, who can enlighten me on how much room I have between my dashboard, and whatever is behind it. (again, I know I'm an idiot), I plan on mounting a 7" LCD screen on the dash, and I want to know before I tear it out, how much room I have to work with, if it's not enough, I'll find another place to put the Screen.

Next, I would like to know what DSM stands for. Ever since I joined the forums I've seen posts by DSMer, and would like to know what it is. From what I gathered, it's the Eclipse body style (Talon/Eclipse), but I know I'm probably wrong.

Next, I plan on within the next 6-12months buying a ~1989 Mustang LX (5.0) or a +97 Mustang GT. If I get the ~89 I want it to be a project car, something I can learn from. The main use of the car would be racing, and as I know a fox body would probably be a lot better to race with then the newer (don't knwo the name) bodies, I can't afford a 98+ F-Body (LS1). What should I do?

I think that's it for now. Please, don't tell me to "search" because every case is different. As for the DSM meaning, I looked on some sort of acronym website, and coulnd't find it. Thanks ahead of time guys.

posted by  CoRPS

The fox-bodied 'stangs are not only great learner cars due to their overall simplicity, but they also make great bracket racers due to the BOOMING aftermarket. 96-98 'stangs are worthless for racing unless you drop some serious loot. In 96-98 the heads on the 4.6 SOHC motors were quite restrictive...they were improved in '99 by leaps and bounds. Most people can't afford to buy a '99 or newer mustang just to have as a project car, that's why many people turn to the fox-body 'stang. A fox-bodied vehicle is much easier to work on than the newer F-body GM cars. If you do decide to go with the older fox-body 'stang, feel free to shoot me a private message or e-mail anytime. I've worked around these cars for quite some time and am very familar with them. I'm currently workin' on an '88 T-bird which shares the fox-platform, you can find info for that by clicking on my site link in my sig.

posted by  Sick88Tbird

Thanks, If I do go out and get me a Fox Body I will definately be here asking questions.

On a side note, my friend has a '90 (I think) 5.0 Stang, Only noticable problems I see are that it has a convertible :P. I hate convertibles. Anyway, We both plan on fixing that thing up, we haven't opened the hood or anything yet, we need to get his dads permission first, he lives in Nicaragua.
What we're thinking is wrong is the tranny is ****ed. Probably needs all new spark plugs and a tune up, I don't know anything about the quality of the motor as it sits, but I know I'll be over as much as he will let me to fix that thing :D

Anything you suggest checking on first before we tear the thing apart? Any books we should buy/rent from the library?

Again, Thanks

posted by  CoRPS

A good place to start is a basic tune up like you said. I'd recommend an Accel distributor cap+rotor kit or an MSD cap+rotor kit. Auto Zone and Pep Boys should have the Accel in stock and Advanced Auto should have the MSD in stock. Also, use a set of Ford Racing 9mm spark plug wires. Many people put platinum plugs in these engines and I can tell you that it's a waste. Go to Advanced Auto Parts and order a set of Autolite Racing AR133 plugs. These plugs provide a noticeable power gain for appoximately $21 a set(they'll have to be ordered but they usually come next day). I'd also recommend installing a K&N panel filter in the stock air box and removing the air intake silencer in the passenger side fender-well(it's behind the air box and is a little tricky to get out but it's free-horsepower). By doing that, you will keep the car appearing stock but will gain probably a good 10hp or more and you won't peg the mass air flow sensor. Another thing, get a timing light and set the base timing(with s.p.o.u.t. connector removed) to about 10 degrees BTDC, you can get away with 14 degrees but I'd recommend using 91 octane fuel or better.

As far as books...get a repair manual for the car(preferably Chilton's) and order some parts catalogs, Jeg's, Summit, and Mustangs Unlimited provide free catalogs and are loaded with good deals and great parts. All three have websites, just add a .com onto each of the names listed above and you're set to go. You can always feel free to shoot me an e-mail or private message if you need additional help with anything.


posted by  Sick88Tbird

No you're nowhere near being a CF Bitch. Actually I wish more of out newbies posted like you. Fully detailed questions, nice puncutation, good grammer, am I dreaming? Hehe.

Ok DSM stands for Diamond Star Motors. Its combination of Chrysler, Mitsubishi and some other smaller business'.(hence the diamond and the star). They created in 89 a line of N/A and Turboed sports cars that released the following year. The factory is located somwhere in Illinois, and they produced 3 makes of cars with varying badging difference. The first make was the Plymoth Lazer, the second was the the Eagle Talon, and the one you're probably more familiar with ,the Mitsubishi Lancer. All made off the 3 different platform either came N/A or Turboed. Standard 5-Speed tranny and the higher end models Talon TSi, Eclipse GSX, and Lazer RS came with a 4WD drivetrain.They came equipped with the most powerful turbocharged 4 cylinder to date(and many will agree), the 4G63T. You'll also see that engine in today Evolutions, but with a slightly different look and more stock HP.

You'll commonly read in my post 1g or 2g. 1g is an acronym for "1st Generation". As is 2g for "2nd Generatio". The 1g model line up created from 90-94 consisted of the Lazer,Talon, and Eclipse. In 1995 they dropped the Lazer, and created a new body styling(like the Eclipse you may have seen in Fast and the Furious). Same options were available, 5-Speed tranny, AWD, Turbo, etc... The Eclipse you see today IS NOT, and I repeat IS NOT manufactured by Diamond Star Motors. In 99 the factory was closed down and no more DSM's were made. But due to the DSM's popularity among buyers Mitsubishi continued the Eclipse. They FAILED HORRIBLY. Umm DSM's are infamous for dropping extremly low quartermile numbers. As you can see from my signature....

If you're going to mount a 7" LCD screen in the dash, it will fit, but you will need to make some custom brackets to hold the LCD in place. I've done an install similar to what you speak of on a 99 Malibu. All the GM dashes are similar, you will have the clearance. The only problem is using a dremel to cut away enough of the console face and a tiny metal prongs behind the dash to find a place to mount your head unit. You will most likley have to mount the head unit right under the lcd screen. It may fit, provided that you can use a Dremel properly to cut off enough of the plastic behind the dash to find a suitable mount. If the idea of cutting your dash scares you then take the car to a pro audio installer. This is NOT an upgrade for the inexperienced.

posted by  DSMer

New news, My friend with the 5.0 came over today and he told me he talked to his dad. His dad is fine with giving him the Mustang since he has nothing planned for it, him bieng in Nicaragua and all. Anyway, I heard a couple of interesting things from him today. Number one would be that the only thing (that his father knows) is wrong with it, is the clutch needs to be fixed/replaced. Number two would be the fact that he says he remembers when he was younger his dad bought a Supercharger for a car. Maybe not the mustang, but we're hoping that's what it's for. Now, He and I, like I've said, are both ****ing retards when it comes to cars. All the pictures I've seen of Supercharger just look like an extra gear (may be the wrong word) at the top of the engine. However, I may be wrong, in which case I might need a description of what a Supercharger looks like so I can go to his house and pray to see a supercharger on that thing :D

Next thing we're planning, is doing a COMPLETE switch over. Since we're both in agreement that not only is a convertible UGLY as hell, but also very easy to break into, we want to switch all the shit from this stang, to another Fox Body. Ofcourse just a rolling Chassis w/as low of miles as we can get. The things I will be looking for before we get this body is ofcourse rust, and bent frames. Anything else?

About the switch over, how hard is it to take everything out of a Fox body and put it into another one, just the rolling chassis? Interior, and engine.. Everything. How much time are we looking at? A few weekends? A bunch of weekends? 5 years? :wink2:

For the above, keep in mind we know little to nothing about cars, however, there is someone that this friend of mine knows who restores cars for a side 'job'. We will ask him for his help, however, pointers from you guys are GREATLY appreciated.

@DSMer: Any eclipse +99 is basically a piece of shit huh? Well anyway, my girl is planning on buying a ~95 Eclipse/Talon. How much should she be paying for a 4 banger non turbo? hopefully under 90K miles and NO problems.

posted by  CoRPS

Any 2000-current Eclipse's is shit. As far as I'm concerned. A 95 would'nt be the best year of Eclipse to purchase either. They are infamous for crankwalking engines(bad thing that destroys the engine). Although it may not have problems at 90k, it could be crankwalking these last 10 to 100,000. You never know, but it would run her anywhere from $4500-$8000 depending on the condition of the interior and body. But I would'nt pay anywhere north of 8 grand for an NA 95 Eclipse.

Her is a picture of what a supercharger looks like.
supercharger (http://www.pickleloaf.com/solara/images/scimages/superchargertop.jpg)

Here is that same supercharger installed on the car.
Installed (http://www.pickleloaf.com/solara/images/scimages/scisonbutnottight.jpg)
It could also look like this

Wich appears like this installed.
http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/News/BCMCqueenmary04/images/IMG_4447_JP G.jpg

Its the extremley large shiny thing in the lower left corner of the engine bay.

posted by  DSMer


The above looks to me like some sort of turbo. Isn't that what Turbos look like?

Also, on one of the older Eclipse's (~93-94ish). How much will a turbo increase it's speed? Let's say (These numbers are probably all off) a non turbo is running 15's at the 1/4. Then the SAME driver adds a turbo onto his Eclipse, will it make a huge difference? Also, Same question, but with n2o, how much can it help? Say, a 100-150 shot (can those small engines handle this much?). Also, what's the difference between wet, and dry shots? Sorry, I'm loaded with questions. But I'm glad you guys can help with the answers :D

posted by  CoRPS

That picture is of a "centrifugal supercharger", it's basically a belt-driven turbo when broken down into the simplest form of explanation. Don't waste your time on swapping everything over....it would probably take you more than 5 years if you guys aren't at all mechanically inclined. Either stick with the drop top or, get another running solid 'stang and just swap little things over. For a s/c install, the alternator needs to be moved, the air pump will most likely have to be done away with all-together.

posted by  Sick88Tbird

These are three basic types of nitrous systems: dry, wet, and direct port. The most misunderstood is the "dry" type of system. A "dry" nitrous system simply means that the fuel required to make additional power with nitrous will be introduced through the fuel injectors (remember, fuel makes power, nitrous simply lets you burn more of it). This keeps the upper intake dry of fuel. We accomplish this by two methods. First, is to increase the pressure to the injectors by applying nitrous pressure from the solenoid assembly when the system is activated. This causes an increase in fuel flow just like turning up the pressure on your garden hose from 1/2 to full. The second way we can add the required fuel is to increase the time the fuel injector stays on. This is accomplished by changing what the computer sees, basically tricking the computer into adding the required fuel. In either case, once the fuel has been added the nitrous can be introduced to burn the supplemental fuel and generate additional power.

The second type of nitrous kit is the "wet" style of kit. These kits include carburetor plate systems and add nitrous and fuel at the same time and place (normally 3-4" ahead of the throttle body for fuel injected applications or just under the carb as with plate systems). This type of system will make the upper intake wet with fuel. These systems are best used with intakes designed for wet flow and turbo/supercharged applications. The reason for this is the fact that fuel flows differently than air or nitrous. This difference in flow characteristics can lead to distribution problems and, in some cases, intake backfires. Intakes designed for wet flow (such as with carburetors) cause much less separation of the nitrous/air, and fuel. Because modern fuel injection intakes are designed to flow air only, they have tighter turns and a more compact design as a result. Thus, they generally do not make good candidates for wet flow nitrous systems.

The last type of system is the direct port system. Just as it's name implies, it introduces the nitrous and fuel directly into each intake port on an engine. These systems will normally add the nitrous and fuel together through a nozzle known as a Fogger nozzle. The fogger nozzle mixes and meters the nitrous and fuel delivered to each cylinder. This is the most powerful and one of the most accurate type of systems. This is due to the placement of the nozzle in each runner, as well as the ability to use more and higher capacity solenoid valves. A direct port system will have a distribution block and solenoid assembly which delivers the nitrous and fuel to the nozzles by way of connecting tubes. Because each cylinder has a specific nozzle and jetting (both nitrous and fuel), it is possible to control the nitrous/fuel ratio for one cylinder without changing that of the other cylinders. These systems are also one of the more complicated systems when installation is considered, as the intake must be drilled, tapped, and the "plumbing" made to clear any existing obstructions. Because of this and the high output of these systems, they are most often used on racing vehicles built for the strain of such high horsepower levels.

As for the eclipse questions, yes the turbo will increase power. No I do not know the exact times you would generate with a forced induction system. Yes Nitrous would improve your times; no I do not know by how much. There are far to many factors that involve arround 1/4rth times for you to bench race.

posted by  DSMer

Thanks for the help. :D

posted by  CoRPS

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