Hybrid vehicles

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Hello,
i don't know if I choose the right group, but i would like to know where can i find the best materials about Hybrid Cars and their drive....
cause i have the seminar and diploma of that...
please help me

posted by  TomazM

hybrid cars suck........and i hate the nature saving enviromentists who wants everyone to start driving these electric powered shit boxes :cussing:

posted by  JrDragsterPunk

Strong hate words from someone so young and probably not learned in the principles and concerns of the environmentalist or the situation. :2cents:

Not that I support it either...but I don't hate them...I rather admire someone being so set in their principles to spend more money on a car than really needs to be spent for transportation...in light of their concerns and in what they really get (or not get). :doh:
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posted by  BavarianWheels

hm... okey, but i need the information and descrtiption about hybrid drive and hybrid electric vehicles... but don't say now: look on the internet, cause there is so many (bad) pages about that, so i would be gratefull if you can help me...

posted by  TomazM

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Well...try http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/. This is (obviously) the "main" forum for Honda Insight owners. There are a few discussion on going there. I also know of one other site that gives the good and the bad from the owner's perspectives...I'll see if I can find it again.
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posted by  BavarianWheels

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4020586&src=News

or go there to

posted by  Car Guy

try the honda web page, they're comin out with some new modles, they brought 3 to my school, they were ok, but im not an environmentalist. i'd prefer a big truck with tons of horse power and lots of smog than a tiny honda with 0 smog, but that's just me :thumbs:

posted by  Acid_burn

my mom has a hybrid, and i don't see why someone coudln't like them.

they don't do anything bad to you , infact they help you. they take up less gas so that you can keep your muscle car longer (last estimated gasoline depletion i heard was 2020). i'm upset that i will only be able to keep my gas cars for 15 more years, and i bet a whole bunch of others are too.

So how can you not like what other people drive if it's helping you and not hurting you in any way. i hate SUVs, but that's becasue they block my view when i'm trying to drive. I don't even care that they take up more gas, because the owner pays.

My mom gets 500 miles a tank and doesn't block traffic. why would anyone hate on that. maybe if tthey want to increase this country's oil consumption so we can "free the people of iraq" AKA get good leads to their oil...

or why would someone not care about the environment. maybe i'm just going off more than i would because i've had a few drinks, but if u plan to have any kids, imo the next gen of people are the last. i have a really low negative view of the world. i'm not having kids because of it, and if i do, i'll help out some ones who need adoption.

so stop hating hybrid cars and go get educated.

posted by  mischa

Well really whats the point?

This is why they should rasie more tax on fuel in the USA, im pretty sure if you paid the same as us guys in england then it might put you off buying big wasteful means of transport. How does $7 a gallon sound?

posted by  cinqyg

Sounds like the politics in England are worse than here... :wink2:
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posted by  BavarianWheels

Sounds good to me

posted by  mischa

I can understand both sides of the arguments.

However, you shouldn't be against a car JUST because it's environmentally friendly. But I can understand not wanting a slow car with a limited range. I've driven a Prius, and it was horrible. (However, the Honda Insight was pretty great to drive, by comparison).

European diesels are impressive: you can get 60 mpg if you're careful, but have 150-200 bhp under your right foot when you need it. This is the best of both worlds, as far as I'm concerned.

Unfortunately, hybrids are going to have to get a lot better before they're adopted by a lot of people. This is what happened with diesels: a few years ago they were relatively slow and noisy, but now they're powerful and refined, and their popularity has increased. It won't be long before the same happens with hybrids, although at the moment, a good diesel engine is a far better alternative.

posted by  heebee

What would be even better in the interim from an enviromental point of view would to be to use diesels but blend fossil diesel with farmed oils, rape and sunflower.

could be a good way of killing many birds with one stone, get rid of the comman agriculteral policy, shut the farmers up, be green, and not have to get on a virgin train! Infact the only reason that it wont happen is because gordon brown wont collect so much tax!

posted by  cinqyg

It really seems like people don't know what hybrid cars are (not being rude, just informative).

A hybrid car runs on gasoline AND it's battery assisting in power. An engine is the least efficient when accelerating. Therefore the battery assists the motor during acceleration resulting in saved gas. When cruising at a constant speed (an engine's most efficient situation) the engine does all of the work.

So, the only kind of "limited range" that a hybrid car is the same limit that any other gas powered car has.



And as a side note, at least in Hondas, the power that's normally lost by braking is captured and is used to charge the battery which will later be used for accelerating. it's like recycling energy, genius.

posted by  mischa

I wouldnt limit your statement to petrol- electric, a hybrid is a combination of the best parts of to entitiys to form a single improved entity.

So diesel electric, electric+fuel cell, etc

posted by  cinqyg

Why is this in the "classic car" thread anyway?

And why do i always see that so many people are always viewing this forum but no one ever responds? visitors should just join in - on the fun.

peace

posted by  mischa

Not directed at you, but rather where ever you got that from. That's bullshit.

posted by  DodgeRida67

What the hell? How ignorant can people really be? Aside from what some people may believe a car is to get your from point A-B in a timely, cost effective and efficient way. I love how people think that all cars are made to be fast and sporty.

posted by  DSMer

No fear, hybride doesn't mean pure electric and the electric power just came out of powerplants which using their own sources (sometimes oil, nuclear...). Gasoline and Diesel cars doesn't leave us soon. :smoke:

posted by  lutz

I KNOW RIGHT?!

posted by  DodgeRida67

Hehe DodgeRida67, you crack me up. Its good to see you back posting again :thumbs: . There have been to many people posting crap all over. You and the Hobo need to whip these kids back into shape.

posted by  DSMer

I love my 1984 Chevy Chevette Diesel. It has enough power to make to car move, :laughing: gets good mileage, :thumbs: and is environmentally friendly. A diesel engine produces less ozone depleating pollutants than a gasoline engine. The only emmisions it is higher in that a gas engine is in particulate emmisions. (Read soot) The way I run my diesel is even more environmentally friendly than others. I run it on waste veggie oil. That way I am getting rid of one waste, and not using as many dinosaurs to be able to operate my car. :driving: Shhh! Don't tell the government. They will have the farmers stop producing soy beans. :screwy:

posted by  comet-63

The brake thing Honda is using is called 'regenerative braking', and has been used on trains and buses for years.

Hybrid cars do have a 'limited range', though. The Prius is horribly slow when the batteries are flat, and the batteries don't last that long in stop-start traffic (where the engine isn't used). Battery technology needs to catch up, as they still have a relatively small capacity and are very, very heavy. On top of all that, a diesel Golf will use less fuel than the Toyota Pious, and costs less money: hybrids are not a viable alternative yet.

posted by  heebee

I don't know what im talking about here because I don't know how they designed the 'Prius' you speak of but If your batteries go 'flat' it would only make sense that they would have designed the car the run on the engine from there on and the engine run a generator to recharge the batteries. Once the batteries have enough charge, back to hybrid mode. That would make sense, and work great.

I doubt they ever will be.

posted by  DodgeRida67

That's the problem! Once the batteries are flat, the engine doesn't have much 'oomph'. And it can't recharge the batteries if all the power is being used to move the vehicle: charging consumes power!

posted by  heebee

who do you think you are. If you take a civic EX and a civic Hybrid, the hybrid will have more range and will not stop even if the battery runs out (remember, it's a hybrid, meaning there's a gas engine and battery pacK).

IF the battery runs out, there's still power, thanks to internal combustion engine.

Also, Dodge Rida, you think gas is forever? it's bullshit that it's going to run out? Gasoline is not an infinite energy source, sorry to ruin your day.
bottom line you're really ignorant.

posted by  mischa

Such anger from one with such flawed logic.

How is hybrid power going to overcome the lack of oil? As we've all worked out, hybrids use an internal combustion engine. And at present, they consume more fuel than a decent diesel engine, and do it in an uneccesarily complicated, heavy and expensive way.

Hybrids don't solve any problems. They only cause more: what are we going to do with all those enormous, toxic batteries when they're dead?

Ultimately, we need to find another form of power. Electricity isn't a great answer because it's so horribly inefficient (if you take into account the losses between generating it at a power plant, transferring it to the home and charging batteries). Electricity also relies heavily on fossil fuels, at present.

Hopefully hydrogen power will save the day. But that's still a long way off.

posted by  heebee

Hmm, funny I never knew that getting 40+ miles to the gallon means you consume more fuel. *scrathes head*

posted by  DSMer

You may be wrong about the fuel consumption, I dont know, but thanks you, thats what I ment in a nutshell. In no way was a hybrid ever ment to replace the internal combustion engine completely. It was made and designed to put a choking hand on polution as I see it.

On total electric cars, I seriously doubt electric cars will ever be anywhere close to an internal combustion engine of today's verity.

posted by  DodgeRida67

I drive a Mazda diesel that's slightly larger than the Toyota Prius. I get 50+ miles to the gallon. Therefore, my diesel engine uses less fuel than the hybrid...

Perhaps it's because my boot isn't full of heavy batteries?

posted by  heebee

So because a handfull of cars can get better gas mileage than one hybrid, they are instantly inefficient? So we'll just ignore the other thousand cars that they do get better gas mileage than? Damn, it can't be me... some of you people are just f*cking stupid :banghead: .

posted by  DSMer

DSMer, are you being deliberately offensive, or is the American education system really as bad as I'm led to believe?

You can't compare a hybrid with the majority of cars, because the performance of a hybrid is so poor compared to most vehicles. However, if you're in the market for a hybrid, you're likely to want one because you want to save the planet, or you want to pay less for fuel.

There can't be many people who are stuck picking between a huge, thirsty, SUV and a much smaller, slower hybrid.

However, as I've pointed out, there are plenty of diesel vehicles that perform better, and use less fuel. Therefore, hybrids, at the moment, are redundant.

I don't expect you to understand that, DSMer. In fact, I fully expect you to think up some other offensive insult. But I posted anyway, on the off-chance that you might read this post, think about it for longer than 2 seconds, and perhaps think again before you reply.

This "f'ing stupid" individual has a degree in mechanical engineering, and 11 years experience of working in the car industry. You, however, seem to think you know it all. Give it some thought: it's just possible that it's YOU that is the ignoramus.

posted by  heebee

I don't care if you invented the car. You're so damn stubborn towards this subject that you are'nt even listenting to what you're typing. This whole statement above is so contradicatory its not even funny. My statement was...

"So because a handfull of cars can get better gas mileage than one hybrid, they are instantly inefficient?"

Now tell me in your right mind, where in the hell did you get performance out of that. Contrary to your popular belief, the sole entire reason of a car is not performance. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the car was invented to make traveling easy, efficient, and cheap. So under those circumstances, even if there are diesel cars that "perform" better, how is a Hyrbird "redudant" if it can save more money than almost every other non-hybrid car on the road(Wich probably is over 50%).

You not only have a car thats over 50% more gas efficient than every other car, and you like to claim that it is redudant. The ignorance behind that whole belief beyond boggles my mind. I'm beginning to believe that it is you who are redudant. Hell maybe you're useless because there are engineers that are probably smarter than you....

posted by  DSMer

Boys, boys, boys.

It's all about choices isn't it. That's whay we have 50 different selections of green beans in the damn grocery store. If somebody will buy it, chances are somebody will make it.

Heebee, part of this issue is that diesel engines have somewhat of a bad rap in the American market. They are seen more as poluters because of the particulates that are visible to the public. Yes, I know that they tend to be cleaner running than gasoline engines (when the diesels are kept running properly) but there are the masses that see what they want to see and we have to live with that.

What is even more funny though is that the people who think diesels create more polution are the ones that are pushing for higher MPG gas engines. That is where the hybrids come in. Now you can have your gas engine and get better milage (as long as you drive it properly - have you been following the hybrid milage claim disputes).

Besides, hybrid cars are also an exercise in testing battery technology and developing future cars that may be even more efficient. These car companies are not making much on their hybrid offerings. Some are even losing money on them. But hopefully the knowlege that will be gained will help them discover where to go next.

There has not been as many diesel car offerings in the American market as there has been in the European market as well as the rest of the world. Part of the reason for that is that diesel and gas prices are very close in the US compared to prices in Europe. Gas (petro) is much more expensive in Europe than diesel is. That is a larger incentive for Europeans to purchase diesel cars. That incentive is not found in the US.....yet.

There has been talk though about OEMs thinking about offing a larger diesel car selection in the US so maybe that will change.

posted by  theman352001

DSMer,

You really are a bit thick, aren't you?

Car A: everyday, cheap diesel saloon. Capable of 50+mpg. Costs around £12k.

Car B: Hybrid saloon. Capable of 40+mpg. Costs around £17k.

Car A also performs better than car B. Which are you going to choose? Here's a clue: it's car A, unless you're a moron.

My car cost £12k. A Prius is £17.5K. My car uses less fuel than the Prius, has more room in it than the Prius, costs less than the Prius, and goes better than the Prius.

Therefore, I conclude that, as my car is far from unusual in this market, that the hybrid, currently, is pretty much dead in the water. It is thoroughly beaten by the modern diesel.

There DSM, is that clear enough for you?

Oh, and just for interest, diesel is actually more expensive than petrol (gas) in the UK, but the diesel market is still boyant because the economy and performance is so good these days.

posted by  heebee

Thank you, your new statement of the "better choice" just gives me no reason to disagree. Your exclusion of all hybrid cars being redudant was a little dodgy.... Iono about the UK, but over here in the US the diesel is'snt exactly the most popular thing out. As far as I'm concerned the petrol car community dominates the US industry, so there is an imperative need for hybrid cars vs diesel.

VW(although they have offered in the past) are just now offering newer cars that run on diesel, but I highly doubt that small ammount of cars will change or make an epedimic on the US petrol car econmoy. Ireguardless to the few $1000 difference in diesel cars vs Hybrid does'nt matter, especially when people are unfamiliar with diesel.. Americans are quite simple, we don't like huge ammounts of change.

Keeping the car running on gas just makes everything that much more simple. So unless you have anything to add to that I believe we have come to terms where we can agree....?

posted by  DSMer

I wish the us auto makers would produce some diesels to compete in the jetta tdi market. I really think that a ford focus with a diesel would sell, or even a chevy cavalier or dodge neon diesel. But, the best thing they could do for the small diesel engines in lose the timing belts and go to a gear to gear timing like the 83 ford ranger diesel 2.0l had. I never heard of one of those heading for the boneyard because of valves hitting pistons. :2cents:

posted by  comet-63

DSMer,

Yes, I think we can agree. I don't mind arguing with people, I just object when they resort to abuse. I shouldn't have reacted, though.

The Ford Focus diesel in Europe is excellent. On paper, it appears less powerful than the VW diesels, but on the road, it's properly quick. It's smooth, quiet and very economical, and seems to have a better spread of torque than the VW units.

Diesel was unpopular in the UK, until about 5 or 6 years ago. But people have embraced the latest engines, because they impress as soon as you drive one.

posted by  heebee

You have a ford focus diesel in europe?!!! :drool: That's it. I'm going to write ford and ask them what the heck they are thinking, not selling them over here in the u.s. :banghead:

posted by  comet-63

They arent' going to sell diesels in teh US until a few things change.

1) diesel fuel in the US is NOT the same diesel fuel as in Europe. it's cheaper than European fuel as it's not as refined, but it IS higher in soot production and sulfurt, so it won't be as clean as Euro diesels OR modern gas engines.

2) the US manufacturers got burned pretty bad in teh '80s doing diesel cars here. Trucks are an easy sell, (and you'll notice how many full size pickups are running around as diesels...) but cars are not. Ford had diesel engines in Tempo's, Rangers, and Lincolns in the '80s, and couldn't sell them. GM built diesels out of gas engines, and they were utter crap. So people have a really bad taste in their mouth about diesels.

I like the torque and economy of a good diesel, but I still don't like the smeell or sound of them. If I can get most of the economy, all the pollution control, and none of the smell or sound, by buying a gasoline powered hybrid, I'd go with that choice.

posted by  ChrisV

seriously i wouldent mind having a hybrid. i have a 351clevelan 4barrel carb and it gets probly 6-8 miles to the gallon. i mean maybe if the hybrids looked nicer then maybe more people would get one? some guy said about 300 miles for a full tank i mean my god! my car full tank gets about 30miles

posted by  351ci-mustang

for those of you that dont believe that hybrid cars are worth the money, you are totally wrong. First of all hybrid cars are in their beginning stages of development, so they are goning to advance no matter what

there is a website called url removed check it out it displays all the up to date news on hybrid news form different manufactures, plus in the long run, you will save tons of money, want to submit your opinons, go the url removed website and check the forums out

posted by  zggyzaggy

Wow, aren't you about to feel dumb? Or perhaps I could use your own words and tell you "you are totally wrong". Hybrid cars have been around since the 19th century. While the new breed of hybrids may be in their developmental infancy, it is certainly not a new idea or entirely new technology. Next time I suggest doing some research BEFORE espousing your opinion.

Oh yeah, http://www.hybridcars.com/history.html .

posted by  vwhobo

1839
Robert Anderson of Aberdeen Scotland built the first electric vehicle.

Wow.. Exaclty 60 after the light bulb was invented and their not exaclty new are they now?

IMO the best use for a hybrid is inner city use, epecially jus an eletric powered vehicle because it would cause no pollution when stationary or in over-run unlike a hydrocarbon engine that would still be idling...

posted by  2002_EVO_VII

Hello folks, I've just joined in the forum.
Please let me introduce myself.
My name is Steve and I live near Atlanta, Georgia USA and own a '04 Civic Hybrid.
I've owned it for almost exactly a year and 31K miles. Last winter I averaged around 53MPG, last summer just above 60 and so far this winter is about 58MPG. Today I beat my personal MPG record and parked at 69.8MPG. That's not a typo. I usually park at 60-64MPG.
Max MPG is a game I play, and today was one of the most exiting drives I've had yet.
Winter I'm getting about 630 miles to my 10 gallons of gas, last summer was looking for 700.

I commute almost 100 miles round trip from the country side into the city of Atlanta. I leave home at 3PM and leave work again at 1AM. About half of my drive is rural country roads; almost half is freeway with ~2miles very heavy city.

My HCH has been a great car with plenty of pickup and I drive sensibly about speed limits. It replaced a 10 year old Dodge Spirit and I saved over $2,500 in fuel alone over the year. (Based on $1.80 / Gallon)

My other vehicle is a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan. It's a pig @ 19MPG so it mainly just stays parked.

The reason I bought the car is my long commute and the desire to save fuel costs. There are allot more regular ICE cars that are cheaper, but cheaper isn't what I was after. I wanted a nice, fully loaded car with exceptional MPG.
I'm not a greenie. I think global warming is a natural cycle and don't fall in line with the hype. But that's another topic I suppose.

I'd really prefer the Honda Insight, as some folks are getting around 100MPG in them and I believe I could do the same. But, I needed 5 seats for the family.
I think diesel cars are nice also, but not for me.

I've read some miss-information on hybrid cars here, specifically batteries and performance. If you'd like we can discuss that.

Anyway, thanks for your time.

posted by  Hot_georgia_'04

Have seen NO hybrids in my area. Do you have any Stats to back the 100mpg. The total amount I personally drive is probably 500 miles a year. My truck that I drive and would never consider getting rid of, gets about 9-10 mpg. :mrgreen: What's base price for your Civic?

posted by  lectroid

I'm still not sure what any of this has to do with Classic Cars, but what the heck!

The only comments I'll make is that there is some misinformation about diesels in the preceding posts.

- Ultra low sulphur diesel will be all that is available for on-road use in the US by 2007.

- most modern diesels don't smoke, smell or make much noise.

- There ARE many more cool diesels available in Europe than North America and the primary reason for that is the way the emmissions are calculated.

- I have three diesels currently. My new truck weighs 8,338 lbs, gets 20+mpg highway and has 325hp and 600 ft lbs of torque. I'm happy with it.

If economy was my main concern, I'd buy a diesel Volkswagen Golf (60mpg) before I'd buy a hybrid because;
- I think the VW is a nicer car than a Prius or an Insite
- The VW is less expensive to purchase
- Diesel engines are generally reliable and have great longevity. I would hesitate to imagine the repair bill to rebuild the electric engine in a Hybrid.

Dave

posted by  DPelletier

Absolutley nothing. I was kind of curious about the hybrids. I'm to much of a speed and power type person to go to a moped. But if push comes to shove(economy), I'd buy one. Maybe. Might be better off just getting a moped. :laughing:

posted by  lectroid

LOL. I am the same my friend. Just yesterday a co-workjer of mine was talking about getting a hybrid due to increases in gas. I just laughed and told her my Grand Cherokee would beat it off the line even if I was in reverse. I need power too. :thumbs:

posted by  Voda48

Voda48:
You are right in the Grand Cherokee speed; it's rated at 0-60 in about 7 seconds, which is around 3 seconds faster than the HCH in a sprint.
The JGC is rated at 15/20MPG and the HCH gets about 47MPG.
Your vehicle has more utility and power, which you need.
Me, I just wanted a high MPG commuter car. I've noticed gas edging up again. Today I filled the Grand Caravan and paid $1.89/G at Quick Trip. My $32 will go about 250 miles. My HCH would fill for under $20 and go for about 650 miles.

Thanks lectroid.
The highest Insight MPG I know of is 114MPG, driven by Wayne Gurdes (Alias xcel). He lives in the Chicago area and has a lifetime MPG average of above 90.
He frequents the Edmunds hybrid mssg board and greenhybrid.com. There are a few Insight drivers right on his heels.

I agree, if you have a vehicle and you like it then keep it. I've had a '59 Olds 98 and a 65 Chevy Biscayne, 65 Catalina, 69 Fury III, and a 64 Ford. I wish I still had them. My dream car is a factory fresh '58 Olds 98. They were redesigned in '59.
I paid $18.5K for my HCH in Jan '04. I paid an additional $900 for their 7yr/100K & 10yr/150K battery ext. warranty.

DPelletier:
Yes, there is much miss-info on both sides and I think both technologies are a good choice. Please let me point out some more common points of hybrid confusion.
I'm referring to the Honda system, which is different than the Toyota Prius. They deliver about the same MPG. It is more difficult to hypermile in the Toyota system. If you already know these points, just excuse.

1. Except for gasoline, they are completely self-sufficient. We don't recharge on the power grid... there is no plug even if we wanted to.
2. Hybrid batteries are an advanced Nimh similar to your notebook computer; the 144 D-size batteries collectively weigh about 80lb and take up about 2 cu. ft. of space. These batteries are recyclable, and are not listed as a toxic item according to the EPA. The computer system intelligently handles all battery charge level, except braking regen.
3. The primary concept of the electric motor isn't to improve MPG, but to bring the performance up to a reasonable level.
4. The size of the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) is main reason we get the great MPG. Curb weight is just under 3Klb, and has a 1.3L engine.
ICE is tricked out with VTEC, lean burn (Cuts mix ratio in half) and shuts down cylinders if they are not needed, such as while cruising.
5. Accelerating 0-60 is about 10 seconds. The electric Assist comes on proportionally to engine load. ICE and electric work collectively. Assist is off unless pulling.
6. My car will not drive on electric power alone. One good point of that is if the hybrid system fails I still drive the car.
7. Recharging the battery primarily comes while driving & coasting. Regen braking is over-rated and accounts for about 10%. If the battery is a little low, the drag on ICE is extremely light, and is recharged in 1-2 of miles. If the charge drops below about half the recharging drag is more, and drops the MPG by 5-7 for a couple of miles.
8. My CVT auto-transmission has no gears to shift through. It uses a metallic belt that runs over 2 variable diameter pullies. The computer determines load, engine speed, Assist and sets the ratio for optimum MPG.
9. AutoStop shuts the car off in most conditions at the stop sign. I'll drop 1-5MPG if the engine just runs. Starting is much different than regular cars. It uses the direct-coupled hybrid motor to spin the engine at ~1000RPM and is as smooth as if it had never stopped. It also has a conventional starter that is used if the pack is flat, or needs to be jumped off.
10. A few more things: The HCH looks like a regular car. They blend in with all the rest. Other MPG improving items: electronic PS eliminates engine load, it has no PS pump or alternator, specially designed alloy wheels and low rolling resistance tires, special air-directing front cowl, underside panels reduce drag, heat rejecting glass so the AC isn't used as often, etc etc etc.
HCH has the highest trim level and comes already fully loaded with many items that aren't available on other Civics’.

Honda has just released a press report that the '06 HCH is redesigned with both higher performance and higher MPG. Specs are yet to be released.
My lifetime average is about 58MPG and a few are even beating me. Most won't see those numbers, as the majority will see around 47.

Wow, sorry to bore you with such a novel!

posted by  Hot_georgia_'04

:clap:

posted by  ToCkS

I live in California, and I drive through smog everyday. There is no reason why you should be against hybrids. They are one of the oldest cars (other than steam) originating in the early 1900s. Refering to the Honda Accord Hybrid, they are extremely powerful; refering to trains, the diesel electric hybrid has alot of potential.

I deal with your kind everyday at school. The S-tuner or the classic rod guys who don't understand heads or tails about science, yet think they know everything about engines and performance (guess why the japanese are beating america in automotive technology).

Supercars aren't super because of tradition and conservatism, but involve the creative and progressive mind to apply new and renewed technology...

See the pict below, It's a Toyota Volta HYBRID...

posted by  Alexpaths

I'm not sure about the progressive mind, but I think many of the folks who take that attitude against hybrid cars just lack information.

I admit not being well informed in performance car specifications or requirements, but am not going to jeer at those who do. (Or even act like it).

When gas reaches $2.50 to $3.00 per gallon by the end of summer I'll be glad that I made some good choices with my car, but I'm no better than anyone else.
We all pump.

Now.....ask me how to maximize fuel economy in whatever you may drive, and I might can help in that regards.

posted by  Hot_georgia_'04

Heh. My sentiments exactly. Hybrid sounds great, you all go get them, I'll stay with my SUVs and such. The world will still be better off, and you cna pay me to lug around your stuff.

posted by  boothe

Ford Escape is the first hybrid SUV, Ford has 4 other vehicles soon to follow.
Next year Ford releases its Mercury Mariner Hybrid SUV.

Toyota has recently displayed a new FTX full-size hybird V8 pickup truck and a FJ Cruiser sport SUV hybrid.

Lexus has their RX 400h hybrid SUV, also to release a new GS 450h hybrid high performance sedan.

Hyundai USA is due to release its Portico sports car v6 hybrid car.

How about a Mercedes S-Class Hybrid? Coming soon.

How about a 255HP Honda Accord Hybrid?
All the power of a 6 cyl but 4 cyl economy, the most powerful Accord sold today.

Many military trucks are going hybrid for up to 20% better economy:
http://www.wisinfo.com/northwestern/news/business/stories/biz_19996232.shtm l

My point is,
Hybrids aren't neccessarily slow or small, they just save you in fuel cost.
Last year alone I saved almost $2,500 in fuel cost over its replacement- a '94 Dodge Spirit that did 17MPG (Based on $1.85/gallon and 32K miles and 60MPG) :thumbs:

posted by  Hot_georgia_'04

Well, good credentials. I will keep my eye on it more. I guess I have an outdated look on the whole hybrid thing.

Interesting to hear that the army is going that way too. Thanx.

posted by  boothe

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