restoration (please answer)

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ok lets put it this way im 14 im intrested in cars i wnt to restore an old muscle car and it needs to be good a burn outs was an easy(optional) cheap way to restore that type of car and whats the best car for restoring?

please answer

posted by  motorhead399

Wouldn't posting a question assume you want an answer? :banghead:
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posted by  BavarianWheels

If I was 14 I would never post my age. You lose credibility that way.

posted by  freeprojectpat

i was saying pleaase answer because sometimes people just dont bother looking

and ya im 15 in a month so im getting started now

posted by  motorhead399

You need to be more specific.... You can restore any car you want to. You need to get the car first. If you dont know what to get why dont you get a 5.0 mustang, theyre cheap, easy to find and tons of fun. Yeah it can burnout

posted by  freeprojectpat

well thanks for the help but could u tell me the year of that good mustang and around what would we be talking price range for a crappy one

posted by  motorhead399

ok heres an example http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=167765221&dealer_id=&car_year= 1987&make=FORD&distance=25&max_price=5000&model=MUST&sort_type=year&advcd_o n=n&end_year=2005&min_price=&first_record=26&address=32828&search_type=used &advanced=n&start_year=1984&=&color=&cardist=24

not bad for 2 grand. 5.0 mustangs have a V8 5.0 liter engine, to compare a 2003 mustang gt has a 4.6 liter. they made 5.0s in the late 80s. IF you want a cheap and easy car to work on this would be your best bet. If you want to know what you can do to hook it up go to a supermarket and buy a mustang magazine they always have info on 5.0s. Finding a 5.0 is easy since theyre a dime a dozen just make sure u get a 5.0 and not just an 87 v6 mustang thinking that its a 5.0 (actually know someone who did) If you put a lot of time, effort and $$ you will have a sweet fast ride and have it looking like this http://wcfords.com/news/blu50stang_in_50/mag3.jpg go to a supermarket grab an autotrader and look for 5.0s youll prob find cheaper ones and in your area.

posted by  freeprojectpat

thanks that was alot of help now im going to start saving later i need a job :banghead:

posted by  motorhead399

I've been working on classic cars for a while. As others have posted pick the car you like the best and go from there but use some caution.Here some tips:
1. You need a job for sure. At your age that may be tough. See if anyone in your area restores the type of cars you like and see if you can get hired on as a shop boy, just cleaning up around the place and changing oil. Again with your age this might be a problem. Restoration work costs a lot.
2. As mentioned this hobby costs a lot especailly if you want to do it right. The more you can do yourself the better off you will be. See if your school has an automotive shop class. It's free education, take it while you can cuz trade schools are not cheap either. Read books, watch videos, and surf the web about how to do restoration work. Lean how to weld. Again the more you can do the less you have to pay in labor for someone else to do.
3. Check on what types of cars you plan to rebuild and see how much thta sytle/model has cost other people. This will give you a good idea of how much you plan on spending or saving up to spend. I rebuilt the engine in my 1958 Plymouth. Right now I have around $4000 in just the engine. Plus another $1000 in the transmission. It still needs upholstery and paint. It's going to cost me $800 to redo the interior and paint will run around $500 if I do it myself. From past restorations an average car paint job runs around $3000. Normal fees are $150 per panel. A panel is a door or a hood etc. And that is jsut for the basic color plus clearcoat. It you want a show car you may need 10 plus coats of color plus 6 or more coats of clear. The top of the line hotrods have paint jobs that run well over $30,000. Be realistic with what you plan on doing.
4. Make sure you have enough time. Your young yet so that should be okay. I've been trying to finish up my car for around 6 years but other peoples car go ahead of mine plus my full time job. And of course I have kids of my own to take care of. No matter how much time you think you need to do something plan on double the amount as things will always come up that you didn't think about.
5. If you can't do something don't be afraid to ask for help. If you don't know how to rebuild an engine its better to pay someone else to do it that you try it, thinking you did it right only to blow up the engine. Then not only do you have to pay someone else to fix it (if it can be fixed) but you just wasted how much time and money on parts.
6. See what model you are getting. This applies more to the 1950's cars but is true for any year car. A 1957 Chevy is a very cool car but a 4 door sedan will not be as worth as much as a 2 door hard top even though they will probably cost about the same to restore.
7. By the best condition car you can afford and go from there. If you find a shell of a muscle car, say a 69 Dodge Charger, that is just the frame and body and the guy wants $1000 it would be wise to save up and buy one for $5000 that has all of the parts. Cars are actually worth more in parts than in whole. By the time you track down a 440 magnum and all of the other parts to fix the shell you could have done a lot to the more expensive car that has most of the parts.
8. Over all be realistic. You not going to have it restored in a weekend. Plan on a year at a minimum and that's if you put all of you other moeny towards it and can do all of the work yourself. At a minimum plan on spending around $10,000 to restore a car. You might luck out and find one that only needs to have the front seats redoene the paint polished up but the seller will probably be asking a lot for it. Check out Deals on Wheels or other same type mags. See what the car you want normally sells for. 1969 Dodge Chargers can sell for $25,000 for nice condition ones. A buddy of mine has one for sale for $3000 but it would need to be restored but is about 95% complete.
Don't get let down by this but it's the truth. And those $200 transmission "rebuilds" you may see on TV ads etc...don't buy into things like that. Those "rebuilds" are nothing more that changing the tranny fluid and filter, installing a new pan gasket and adjusting the bands or clutch. It's not a cheap hobby but is a rewarding experience. Good luck.

posted by  Bill in SD

Ya...your BMW looks like a RICE ROCKET...make it atleast look like it has MUSCLE and not a muffler. :ticking:

posted by  xX1968MustangXx

Who the hell are you talking too... And why do you have a picture of a ratty old Windsor attached? Enquiring minds want to know.

posted by  vwhobo

If you were to go with a cheap somewhat musclecar (they could be) go with a late 70's early 80's Olds Cutless or Pontiac Lemans or Grand Prix. They are easy to work on and you can get any engine for these a dime a dozen. ie 305's, 350's etc. And they are getting cheaper by the day. Just be sure to thoroughly check it over first. Places like any of the floor and frame weld spots. If you want to spend a little more go for the IROC-Z. I have an 89 5 speed that's pushing just about 350 horse. It's still fairly cheap on gas (about 500 kms on the hwy). The only thing is it's TPI and they can be difficult to work on if you are not sure of what you are doing. One last thing, if you look at Camaro's, make sure you know what you are doing. Unibodies like to hide rust. So look carefully. Especially the 3rd gens, check out the strut mounts, inner rear wheel wells and around the rear bumper underneath. Hope this helps you some.

posted by  snapper69

ROFL...shows how much u know... its a 289 High Performance, and its my cars engine... and i was talking to that bavaria dude

posted by  xX1968MustangXx

And a 289 is a... short deck Windsor. So who did we show how much they know?

posted by  vwhobo

Why are people so full of it around here? :banghead:

posted by  DodgeRida67

wtf are you talking about...289 and 351 arent even close to the same...maybe cause there both by ford..but mine has 271 STOCK horse's and the 351 has 330 Stock horses..ill show u a pic of my car if you want...but why would you go with a vw?

posted by  xX1968MustangXx

Do you know the difference in a B-block and a RB-block Chrysler engine? Think hard...

posted by  DodgeRida67

I'm missing something here:

you take the piss out of a BMW that's setup for circuit and you argue that the 289 isn't a short decked windsor?

posted by  Wally

You're a moron.

Ford's small block windsor series included the 221/260/289/302/351 and a bizzare 255 cid variant during the smog years. ALL of them are called Windsors. the 351 you are referring to is usually followed by the Windsor designation because Ford also built a 351 Cleveland that used the canted valve Lima head design on a larger block than the Windsor line.

Thus ALL Ford small blocks from the '60s 221/260 (like I have in my '63 Comet) to the '70s 351W and the '80s 5.0 (like I put in my 2nd gen RX7) are Windsors.

The fact that you didn't know that calls into question ALL your knowledge, and especially calls into question the very misguided opinions you have BASED on that poor knowledge.

Coming into someplace like this and insulting cars that aren't your favorites shows you to be a very insecure, closed-minded idiot. And arguing about something you SHOULD know about proves it.

posted by  ChrisV

....short decked windsor? the difference between the 289 and the 351 is the horsepower,torque and the C.I., they are only the same in 2 ways...the fact that its a SMALL BLOCK and that its made by FORD

posted by  xX1968MustangXx

The 351W has a taller deck than the smaller capacity ones, for the increased stroke. Much of internals and the heads can be interchanged.

ChrisV, although not really pertinant to the USA when they came out, the cleveland was also produced in Australia as a 302 so we had the 289, 302 windsor, 302C, 351W and 351C.

posted by  Wally

At 14....good luck restoring a muscle car. it'll cost you a good $15,000 + depending on the car for it to be a nice car

posted by  Saleen43

You've had time between our posts and yours to do some research to prove that we're right. You failed to do so. You're proving that not only are you ignroant, you wish to remain ignorant, and yet also wish to remain argumentative.

The 289, 302, 351W are all part of the same engine family (i.e. parts interchange). the 351W uses a longer stroke crank, and a 1 inch taller deck height (that's the measurement from the crank centerline to the mating surface of the head). Even though the heads interchange, the taller deck heigght makes the engine slightly wider overall, thus uses a unique intake manifold. Yet it is still a Windsor family small block. Thus the 289 and 302s in the US are "short deck Windsors" and the 351W is the "tall deck Windsor."


The 351C is a separate design, and nothing directly interchanges. And yes, Wally, Aus gort a 302 Cleveland, which was the Cleveland block, unlike the BOSS302 which was a Windsor block with Cleveland design heads (canted valves). The 351C family also includes the 351M and 400M (M standing for Modified, becaeu they changed the bellhousing bolt pattern to the 429/460 pattern, enlarged the main bearing diameter, and increased the deck height by a little over an inch for the longer stroke of the 400)

posted by  ChrisV

Wow, who the hell cares about the Chrysler stuff...its starting to get old and retarded

posted by  xX1968MustangXx

I used to really like the chrysler slant sixes and I have a soft spot for the Valiant R & S series.

We get things called a PT Cruiser, Crossfire and a Neon here. The PT is a bit of a novelty retro thing that looks like a panel van car produced here called an FJ Holden in the fifties. I would guess it's something owners get attached to, but I have heard it's underpowered.

Your nic implies you have a mustang? Ever thought about investing in Kiwi heads?

posted by  Wally

WTF? You can't be bothreed to respond with relevant info? Listen, do you want anyone to consider your posts to be knowledgeable? Do you want anyone to actually listen to what you have to say about anything? If not, leave.

The fact that you want to remain closed minded and ignorant, not only of cars in general, but the very type you profess to actually like, means that it's clear than no one should take anything you have to say as though it were in any way intelligent.

posted by  ChrisV

Thread hijack...

The PT is only underpowered in n/a automatic form. the 5 speed N/A version is considerably quicker, and actually quicker than a lot of pure sports cars and sport coupes of teh past. For what it does, it really dnt' need to be ay faster. But the turbo variant certainly is (rated at 215-220 hp, it acutally puts down a bit mroe than that to the wheels). the 5 speed turbo PT runs to 60 in under 7 seconds, which is more than adequate. Turning the traction control of makes the thing a lot of fun (it'll light the tires as the boost comes on even in 3rd gear...). They also handle much better then they need to. They understeer (as typical) in stock form, but a bit of left foot braking into the corner can cure that right up.

I did a season of slalom racing in mine (even though it's supposed to be a family sedan, the Fiat wasn't ready yet, so the PT was put into race service), and it actually worked well enough to place third for the season, and actually won the class outright a couple times (against cars like non-S Mini Coopers and the like on race tires).

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/pt_montage.jpg

posted by  ChrisV

Well now I have a better appreciation of the PT Cruiser, well done with your placing.

posted by  Wally

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