questions about 351W

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Hello everyone. Bear with me if you can, I'm very ignorant to Ford engines. I have a 1969 Mercury Cougar Eliminator with a 351W that I am trying to restore. First of all, does anybody know what kind of transmission this thing has? I have no idea how to find out. All I know is it's a 3 speed automatic. Also, can I mount a C-6 transmission to a 351W? Will it work? If so, what kind of adaptation do I need to undertake to make it work? Thank you for your help. It is very much appreciated.

-Jeremy

posted by  Jgranga171

you probably have a c-4. yes you can put a c-6 in but c-6 transmissions are very expensive..

posted by  351ci-mustang

Hey Zippy, instead of coming up with some half assed partially correct information, why don't you tell him how to ID his existing trans, what changes he needs to make to install a C6 (which it probably already has) and the pros and cons of C4 vs. C6 vs. FMX. As the self appointed FoMoCo expert you can you handle that can't you, you little twat?

Alternately if Jgranga171 really wants to know what trans he has he can tell me what the code is on the data plate and I'll tell him.

posted by  vwhobo

man just a bunch of dick heads on here... i mean :cussing: alright let me give you a little bit of advise on c-4 and c-6 hopefully some dickshit want try to be a smartass

This C-4 transmission has a high performance Fairbanks TransAction Kit, all Red Eagle clutches and Kolene steels, Alto Red Eagle band and a "C" ratio servo as used in Shelby Mustangs. A "C" ratio servo offers greater holding power, giving cleaner, firmer 1-2 and 2-3 shifts

This C-6 transmission comes with a high performance Fairbanks TransAction Kit, 5 clutches in the forward and direct drums, Alto Red Eagle oversize Power Band and a Superior "R" billet Super Servo. The Superior C6-R Super Servo delivers positive 1-2 and 2-3 shifts

and if they know so much about everything they can tell you how to mount and what kind of adaptions you need

posted by  351ci-mustang

That's not advice douche bag, that's copy and paste. Who's website did that advertisement come from? Why no info on the FMX little man? Come on twinkie, if you're so completely knowledgable you can do better than that.

posted by  vwhobo

WTF? How does quoting from a Fairbanks ad tell this guy anything at all about what his car has, which is better for his car, or how to swap to a different trans?

What brand bands a Fairbanks C6 has in it has absolutely zero to do with anything!

If it's a real Eliminator, the 351w engine code (fifth digit on the VIN) would be M (for a 4 bbl 351). Standard Cougars got a 2bbl 351w with a different engine code. There were only two factory automatic options for the '69, the C6 and FMX. The C6 would normally be used behind the big blocks (though there are a few small block C6s runing around. They are rare, as the bellhousing is actually part of the whole trans, not a separate piece like the C4 and FMX). Since the 351W is a small block engine, it's most likely that it would have had the FMX. the data plate on the driver's door would have U in the trans code location for a C6 and X there for an FMX.

http://www.theclassiccougarnetwork.com/elim/defin/def03.gif

The FMX is not really a performance transmission. But of youre' restoring it, or want to make it factory spec, then you're going to want to leave it in there. otherwise you could get a later small block C4, or if you'd like more driveability, fab up some mounts (and a shorter driveshaft, which isn't too tough at a local driveshaft shop) and install a late '80s AOD (not the electronically controlled EAOD) to get a 4 speed automatic with overdrive.

posted by  ChrisV

Let me first start of by giving my gratitude for the help I have had thus far. I have learned quite a bit about data plates and such! Thank yoiu all very very much. I got the VIN number and the data from the plate. The plate is very corroded and I could hardly make out the numbers. Unfortunately, the transmission code number at the end was so ate up, I couldn't read it. If FMX's were that common, then I'm sure this car had one. Is there another place on the car to get the data from? The code I got(which I will have to double check) is as follows: 65A 2 28(or 2B) 01L 22 7 ?(X or U). Also, ChrisV check this out. The fifth digit on my VIN is not M, it's H. What's up with that? The car is original, no different parts to my knowledge. The car still even has the Eliminator decal and pinstripe down the side. So does this mean my car is a fake? What's up? Again, thank you fellas for all of the help thus far. More questions to come I'm sure. haha.

posted by  Jgranga171

Also, I am very interested to learn about the possibility of installing an AOD in the car. ChrisV, if you have anymore insight, please let me know if you can.

posted by  Jgranga171

Well, it's official. My Cougar is an imposter!! It isn't an Eliminator at all. My "1969 Comp. Orange Mercury Cougar Eliminator 351W-4v with black interior" used to be a 1969 Ivy Yellow Mercury Cougar with the standard 351W-2v and had Corinthian Blue interior. Unbelievable! I was so upset when I finally learned about it. Whoever 'transformed' this car to an Eliminator did a good job. Fooled the hell out of me. The only way I was able to figure out this car was a fake was by the VIN number and data plate. Well, I guess it's okay because I only bought the car for $100 and it runs and sounds pretty good. So, I think I'll keep it and make it a little project. I was wondering about stroking the 351. Good idea, bad idea? Let me know fellas. Thank you.

posted by  Jgranga171

Well, it's too bad it isn't an original Eliminator. OTOH, it now doesn't hurt to make it unoriginal in the pursuit of something a bit more personal, while still being a nice car.

To install an AOD, you'll want the flex plate from a later 5.0 (best to get it and the trans together from the same car). You'll probably have to fab up a mount, using the stock trans side of the mount, and cut n' weld the chassis side (not too hard: mount the trans to the engine, mount the engine in the car, hold the trans up with a jack and measure how much you have to move the actual mounts to match the bolt locations in the chassis. Remember to measure a few times, and try to make the mounting points slotted for fine tuning).

The hard part is that the AOD is designed to be used behind a fuel injected engine, so the TV lever/cable (depending on year) won't hook up to a carb directly. This requires a bit of fabrication on the carb:

This is the AOD TV lever modded to work on an Edelbrock carb:

http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/459103b.jpg

And later when i installed a Holley I transferred the throttle crank plate over to that carb:

http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/459104d.jpg

Now mind you, this was on a '74 302 block, which never had an AOD on it stock.

The TV lever would be the better setup than the later TV cable, as I don't think you can get the cable to lengthen or get it to mount right. The TV lever, OTOH, is pretty easy to add a couple inches to to get it to work. You have to mount it to the throttle lever at a point where the forward/backward travel is the same as it was in the stock application, so it can still be adjusted properly and do the job of controlling shift points. Mind you, this is not a kickdown lever like an older 3 speed automatic has. You can remove those and the car would still be driveable (you'd just have to shift down manually if you wanted to pass). An AOD uses the TV (throttle valve) lever to control all its shifting up and down, and it has to be adjusted right to work at all.

Sounds complex, but it's really not. And the overdrive trans is kind of nice to have.

posted by  ChrisV

Make sure if you do convert to an AOD trans that the flywheel doesn't come out of a mustang or Lincoln Mark VII, those cars had the H.O. motor which is balanced differently from the std. 302 cars.....I think the 351W had the same 28oz balancer as the 302 but I could be wrong....the 5.0L H.O. had a balancer with 50oz and some change I believe.

posted by  Sick88Tbird

Thank you!

posted by  Jgranga171

i wasted my time signing up to this forum just to tell you to go **** yourself! if you where standing in front of me i'd kick your ****ing face in! then while you were on the ground crying like a bitch i'd smash your balls in. i hope you die! your car is a piece of shit and by the way and i ****ed your mom in the ass last night, it's funny she was screaming out your name??? :fu:

posted by  ihopeyoudie

hey vwHOMO i heard that you suck Chrisvie's cock on the weekends. both of you, get a real car and don't forget to use condoms. :clap:

posted by  ihopeyoudie

You signed up strictly for that? Are you 12? Is that crybaby whining supposed to somehow strike fear into us? Sounds more like you're pissing yourself in fear, and have to lash out like a little baby.

Definitely not impressed with your lack of knowledge and your entirely unoriginal line of insults. Come back once you get out of puberty and actually have a couple of brain cells you can actually use.

posted by  ChrisV

Are there no ground rules on this site? Moderators? Can't some of this crap be deleted? I joined this forum to participate on useful discussion of classic cars and musclecars not listen to profanity spouted by prepubescent, bicycle riding, baggy pants wearing kids hiding behind thier parents computor screens. Maybe I need to search for another site.

Dave (yes my real name)

posted by  DPelletier

Maybe you do. I'm sure you'll find all sites have fools.

Just a little side note on the C6, they are reputed to drag additional power through increased transmission losses compared to the C4/C10, but boy they are much stronger.

posted by  Wally

I'l give it a little longer, but really, some of these posts are ridiculous. And I do belong to several other forums that aren't plagued by these problems. The best ones are pay sites; they keep out the riff raff.

Dave

Oh and your right about the C6, they do and they are.

posted by  DPelletier

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