For the Ricers...

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What do you exactly see in these imports? All i see is 4 banger weedwacker shopping cart wing fart piped rubebr band thin tired cars that look like they were found in the bottom of the cracker jack box? I want to know Asias best performance vehicle and from what i told its the Mines r34 nissan skyline with the rumored 280 mph? Its quite annoying seeing these little hondas with tires so thin you couldnt tell if you had a flat till you hit a speed bump with these fake aerodynamic kits, and those oversized wings that drag in the wind and those over brightened european headlights. Movies like the fast and the furios series were made to dawn apon imports as they are so great. I am an obsessed car freak and i can tell you no supras going to keep nose ends with a 70 charger with a fully blown hemi thats been bored out, super charged, and a blower. I will admit there are imports that have a handle on some muscle cars on the track because they were basically designed for just quick shifting. (by the way all the imports on 2F2F had small block chevy 350's read it from the movie producers thereself somewhere) Anyways I just thought id set some things straight. I know nissan has a sponsored car in the laguna seca. so being if the european and asian cars are so great why has corvette c5r had 2 wins followed by viper team orecas 3 wins in the past 5 years of racing? and dont forget when you have big blocks some cant be turned past 6500 unless you change the crank shaft, small blocks are made for high rpms such as my camaros 383 with TPI. I also realise that there are little vtec engines that can go up to 160. Impressive for 1 to 3 runs for the engine blows. lol the standard rule is if the cars CI exceeds the horsepower there wont be much of an engine problem as vice versa. Ah yes ferrari... the worlds famous sports car. if they were so great how come in 67-68 the ford gt40 with only 306 hp at 6k rpms beat them at the lemanz? youv got that going against a 600 hp ferrari and gets stomped on, especially by the cars that are famous for getting towed off the side of the road? that would be an embarrassment. I see it senseless to buy shitloads of air filtering, exaust treatment and pipes, turbo chargers just to beat a 396 SS engine at the same speed but 2k more rpms when a 396 is cheaper and more reliable? I would also know why you guys think you can just stomp all over the muscle cars when they were the basis for real speed. such as the 70 chevelle 454 or the buick special with the wildcat engines that were also famous in some WW2 fighters. the slowest muscle car that i know of would be the dart in my backyard with the 340 that can do 140 and maybe 150. with nothing special to it. as opposing to buying all this useless junk for some import that has a hard time getting over 120. when it comes to dragracing imports are just a joke, so are the engine sounds. For you 4WD car lovers id just letcha best know to make a side note that 4WD on cars limits the top speed. also those of you who enjoy Front Drive cars. If you know the scientific theory its easier to push something then it is to pull something youd get great results with a rear wheel drive car. midrear drive cars, nah never had thought about it. there are top fuel dragsters here that do 300 mph plus in 3 seconds or less with just 426 hemis and chevy big blocks that have 1200 hp when you guys still are trying to figre out how to cram more turbo chargers (not to mention those fans can break easily) under the hood of a car . Your just figuring out ways to blow your engines to mock muscle cars busting your ass to do 160 and 180 with over priced amounts of equipment on your car just to beat stock engines. i find that pathetic, All i have to do is super charger a 576 with dual carb with less the price it takes for you to turbocharge your honda and top you out at ferrari speed that v-12's do at 8k rpms. My camaro has a 380 small block with tpi and on the dino it does 210-230 at 8k rpms and ont the road at 180. while itt akes two turbo chjargers on a v-12 just to match my eprformance off a small block and ram air through two front vents. Imports basically aim for as high as an rpm you can get in the 4-6 cylinder engine as possible. As you guys improve theres an engine shop called South Coast Automotives that produces oversized v-8 850 C.I. engines that can doo 8-12k rpms and can do 280+ and there not even dragcars that are street driven. No no replacing the flywheels, crankshafts, they last a good long while. Muscle cars may be obsulete but they still kick 98% of the imports asses out there. And just think of all the improvements that have been made over the years to better the engines. Lets notf orget the bigdaddy chevelle with its beefy 454, videogames and media hold down this king that i personally know for a fact these cars can do 180 havent seen any good kicks for the 200 mph mark yet, but these are fantastic cars and when you think muscle car this is usually the first car that pops up in your head. Now that weve covered the dragracing subject. Its time for sports cars vsing the imports. track wise my camaro has more of a handle on a wide variety of imports souped up on the track. Also corvette has engineered some of teh greatest sports cars such as the 69 427. Intertwining a beefy big block that can compete enough to go track wise. the first year shelby operated as a single company chevy made the 427 cobra in 65 that had excellent shifting and speeds of 150 - 160 ( some considder it to both be a muscle car and a sports car because of the shelby heritage signification) I personally love the 65 cobras shifting that can outmatch tons of imports without having to take big leaps of nitrous and dual turbo chargers just to tag the rear wheel of this car. All im saying is you guys are sad having to build 600 hp + engines with 8k rpms just to stay nose wise with stock engines that have not fully been souped up as much as those so significant imports. all we have to do is slap on the goodys and your doors no longer are reattachable. I leave this post with this picture of the famous american hotrod idol the willis coupe blown.äll,%20Willys%20g ul%20m%20blå%20fl%20park%20bildbakrund%20eng.htm

1200 hp + non dragcar doing 300 without a problem and beautiful shifting. This is where you guys officially lose even with your best skylines and all that other bullshit. =) Now i do expect some riots, and some media controlled answers and hate responses to try and reclaim your so called glory over the american muscle. But untill youv actually seen the dino tests and been around the cars yourselfs besides reading facts off a piece of paper, or taking the time to enjoy what has been put together and hating you might learn something from the real mechanics, the greasers who origonally built the land speed record 42 chevy roadster that held the land speed record at 160 off a 4 barrol and wasnt broken until,l the mid 80s by jets cars alike. my grandfather and the bunchw ere there with the group that officially invented hotrods and ratrods. I may be oldschool, but i know how to put the boot down. BUT i will appreciate your work that youv done keeping up on the track with the other american cars. besides i like the 97 supra all ripped out with the extra fiberglass, and my favorite sports car being the tommy karai ZZJ2 (i think thats how its spelled) with a nice low sloped drag wing. All im saying is i dont appreciate the fatc you think you can just stomp out what lit the horsepower non limits for years to come, and actually admit that the muscle car still stands the key role as real speed demons on the dragway. Once you start to apperciate these things i may appreciate imports better, but i will never appreciate that weedwacker sound i hate it compared to this beautiful deep tone.

thats the chevy influenced 427 now after 65 ford bought shelby out and screwed things up. but even you ricers boys gotta admit thats a fine tuned sound there! =) peace. :thumbs:

posted by  Greaser1957

before i read this, please tell me you cut and pasted that

posted by  Low Impedance

Nope, typed it all myself to make the message clear to yall.

posted by  Greaser1957

and now i lay into you.

umm a blower is a common name for a supercharger unless you mean a blow through carb.

if you want to talk lemanz, then how about the mazda 4 rotor? whats that? oh it won. then your piston loving bitches cried about it and had it banned because they did something better than they could do.

you mean AWD. 4wd is found on trucks because all four wheels spin at the same time with almost the same force. AWD has a primary drive and the secondary (ie the front or rear wheels pending maker) start to spin to gain traction. otherwise, they are doing nothing

what can you pull on the skid pad? the TII (rx7) ; 1.03 with a lightly modded suspension and a good alignment. and perfectly streetable. you would last 2 seconds on the track with a purpose built 7.

1200 hp and 300 miles per hour and shifting smooth as ever eh? umm BS. pro drag cars use two gears. or a series of clutches that control gearing. and no they are not smooth. better than that, you have no chancce in hell of ever driving that to the store.

i think you need to admit that all cars play a role in racing. it isnt dominated by one side or the other. really your last paragraph was more hypocritical than anything. that and alot of pro import drag cars use import v8's and v6s. seeing that the rule limitations do not allow for the same power levels as a top fuel car, its hard to compare anything.

and now that the 4 rotor is allowed in IHRA, it should be interesting.

posted by  Low Impedance

Yes but looks like nascar didnt let the imports race on the track because thatd be a joke. And i said most to my car but im doing pretty well. and 1200 hp at 300. Lol buddy you havent been to richmond dragway, unless someones a little jealous here its true with the top fuels iv seen go down the track. lets not forget John Force. You can place a blower on top of the supercharger at the same time allowing better functionality for air cramming adding an extra 300 hp.

if you want to talk lemanz, then how about the mazda 4 rotor? whats that? oh it won. then your piston loving bitches cried about it and had it banned because they did something better than they could do. - Yes out of how many stated corvette and viper wins? Exactly... You may have me cornered on the track racings but when it comes to the dragracing theres going to be a rivalry. on the subject. lets follow the yellowbrick road to SCA on the southcoast so i can show you exactly the engines we make.

posted by  Greaser1957

well seeing the 4 rotor won in the first year then was immediatly banned. kinda hard to make more than one win like a viper or similiar. honestly im a very all around car guy. i have two 7's and a model T and i know many a person with older muscle cars and many people with import sport cars. All of which have been better on way or another over eachother. its personal preference. NASCAR is too imbred and there is no way that they will let imports race because of their own prejudices and not really any statistics.

posted by  Low Impedance

I'm kinda a history buff, and I cannot for the life of me remember a Buick Wildcat engine used in ANY WWII fighter... Most were Merlins, Rolls-Royces, etc...

posted by  Low Impedance

you make the NASCAR thing sound like a racial issue. Its only because Nascar is an american sport. thats like letting imports in NHRA do you see a problem? its just not worth the time. those nascars out there out perform many cars even custom built by the best car designers. I did notice they had problems driving in mexico because theyw erent used to left and right corner tracks as opposing right all the time. Not to mention they run super soft tires that are almost drag car tires.

posted by  Greaser1957

as far as the buick wildcar engine i heard the use of it being used in one of the test planes or something not quite sure but rolls royce and the english cars i do appreciate. the p-51 was the terror of the sky, but my hearts with the p-40.

posted by  Greaser1957

it almost is a racial issue because honestly, the only reason they wont do it is because the fans would be pissed off about it

what about drag imports neeeding rebuilt? oh, so do the top fuel cars that turn out 4 sec 1/4 miles. only after 1 or 2 runs. thats because they are meant to only last for so many revoultions.

ever watcht the WRC? world rally championship? notice the only cars there are small engine cars? why? the rules almost make it that why and ever see the driving they do? they have more skill than forumla cars or your precious nascar. that and the cars take some of the worse beating imagenable.

posted by  Low Impedance

Agree on the Mustang... But personally prefer the P47...

posted by  Rat King

the best bumper sticker ever i saw on a mg...

"the parts that fall off of this car are of the finest british engineering"

posted by  Low Impedance

Just kinda skimming this topic, and I found a couple points to disagree with...

Top Fuelers run more than just a "426 Hemi..." While this IS the basic block, there's really nothing in common with a 72 Charger... While the HP outta these engines amazes the Hell outta me, they DO get rebuilt after every 4 seconds of use!!!

As far as bringing the whole 2-Fast... cars into the topic, these cars are built for a look, and any enthusiast is immediately gonna do away with the wing, fart-can exhaust, etc...

However, the performance potential of these cars is more than you may car to admit... 1100 hp Supra's are actually pretty common on the street, as they have a VERY strong bottom end.

You can also make very good power reliably out of small-bore import engines...

Blown Miata's are very common making about the same hp as recent F-Body GM's, while out-handling them easily.

posted by  Rat King

what about drag imports neeeding rebuilt? oh, so do the top fuel cars that turn out 4 sec 1/4 miles. only after 1 or 2 runs. thats because they are meant to only last for so many revoultions. -Yes true but when you have to rebuild after 160 once or twice there are some real problems.. plus theres a difference between pro modified and street cars. the only thing rebuilt is the flywheel and crankshaft the pistons are good for another 60 runs. as opposed to why not just rebuy a completely new engine? as far as street wise those old dust collecters as you call them last a hell of alot longer at the most hardest churning they do for a big block that youd expect to blow faster then a small block that has problems quicker. as far as the 4 bangers they are nothing but high rpms and doubtfully dont last as long as the C5Rs v-8. and no i dont care to watch cars do a trucks job on a rally course in the dirt. I could care less for dirt racing. iv got an old javelin out back with 130k miles and it only needs oil changes and that thing still rips the pavement up at the dragstrip and hasnt been rebuilt just a new fanbelt that snapped once in all the years use. i have 10 classic cars in my backyard. one needs a new timing chain, and the others just need new tires to run.

posted by  Greaser1957

so obviously you have no idea what the WRC is like. going 150 to 200 mph through the mud, snow, wet and dry pavement, commonly all on the same course on roads or trails not much wider than the car is feat all of its own. There is NO comparision between the WRC and dirt track racing. Why do you like ovals so much!!!!

posted by  Low Impedance

I never said anything about a 72 charger.... in the NHRA deal just the FATF deal, those cars are built for looks so the kids go buy the things and think their hot shit, Lol just because acar has a high built hp doesnt mean its going to act out a nice 200, it may just be to kick it enough to do 180. As far as the charger in that movie and being a man who hangs around those kinda cars i can assure you the tailights of that charger would look like dots when that car kicks up on top end. I never really fully saw the engine it was on sure you can just slap a blower and a super charger on a basic 425 hp engine but im talking about professionally built hemis that are just 900 HP alone without the super charger itself.

posted by  Greaser1957

you do realize that no one cares about that damn movie right?

posted by  Low Impedance

I dont enjoy ovals, I barely watch nascar ever sense richard petty stopped driving. And i dont enjoy watching cars bog through mud snow and pavement it just doesnt attract my attention as a loud outburst of a big block making its way down the track chewing out your so called prized imports. Im going to have to dig up my friends pro modified camaro. If you ever want to visit its richmond virginia, at teh richmond dragway as you enter go 3 trailers down and teh 2nd on the left. Big red car trailer and chevy duelley. SCA motor. We change the gear ratio and the timing chains (a pain in teh ass i must say when you mess up on your first time around i learned the hard way) No nitrous hookup and we can do 280+ If thats still unbelievable i suggest you pay a visit. And i would lvoe for you to meet a man who owns a 69-71 vette mix midnight pearl 950 C.I. Engine alone without the goodies, everythings like a supersized hamburger under the hodo with reinforced engine and body compnents with steel body to weigh it down because it gets airborn doing 380 on the street, No nitrous hookup, no rebuilding been running the same engine sense 17 hes 21 now, 2nd lieutenant in the navy as a pilot. This i know is built more stronger then those rally cars for OBVIOUS reasons if you think about airborn flight. Yes i know sounds impossible, but the guy does get in trouble, they just dont know who drives the car. Quite a long story, but he hasnt been beat yet dragracing nor streetracing. I belkieve hes in the california area now you should be able to hear that chevy engine a couple blocks away.

posted by  Greaser1957

As far as speed i know a guy who races those speed bikes that do like 2 or 4 laps and go faster then any car produced, and bones get broke alot he says, Its some sport in britian. Id say if you wanna beat any car american or imported buy one of those crotch rockets, very fast, and good cornering but thats a speed bike deal. And doesnt the old saying go a real man drives a harley?

posted by  Greaser1957

Why not tell me what channel this WCM is on for comcast, would it be under espn or espn 2 or something?

posted by  Greaser1957

Blown Miata's are very common making about the same hp as recent F-Body GM's, while out-handling them easily.[/QUOTE]

Blown miatas lol. i will admit the regular camaros in 93-02 were femninem accept for the 02 Yenko package the 427 with 600 hp mmmmm :drool: but the firebirds nah... they were like weaker versions of the camaro accept teh trans am with the 455 another :drool: like the 71 with the 454. but miatas? those little rowboats? Hell they have to get blown just to beat a lame 230 hp, Theres no challenge to that. :orglaugh:

posted by  Greaser1957

There are points I feel need to be brought up. Too lazy to read all of Greaser ranting on about how fast he is and all that other BS he has spoken.

I am a domestic car guy just to say that right off.

American cars are generally built more powerful than import cars, yes. If you try and get a crazy amount of horse/torque out of an import 4cyl car, it's not going to last long, its life will be dropped drastically. Though, power isn't what their built for. Imports are usually built for handling. So it's like comparing oil and water.

Greaser, you have no idea how anything works. Hemi's aren't even designed very well. They were for their time, but no longer. There is no such thing as a 900hp hemi motor that isn't getting any help from a s/c or turbo, unless the motor's damn near 800ci. Just to get this straight, the DOHC engine is much better designed than the hemi engine. It is capable of much more power than any hemi motor.

There is proof that you're a 13 yr. old that has nothing better to do than rant on about how little you really know.

A 950ci corvette? Don't make me laugh. That car couldn't hold an engine that size if its life depended on it. That's more than twice the size of any motor Chev has ever made.

It's people like you who give domestic drivers a bad name.

posted by  88GrandPrixSE

OK... After taking time to read your entire post, I have a few more agreements as well as a couple more disagreements...

I agree with your statement about the Oreca Vipers and the factory C5 Vette's success in recent road-racing... However, the Vette is now facing serious competition from the Pro-Drivce Ferrari's... They were MUCH faster on the Muslanne straight at LeMans, but had some teething problems... I DO wish GM the best... I'd LOVE to see them build a dynasty in international competition.

I also agree about drag racing FWD cars... While the power they produce out of tiny engines is impressive, I just see alot of wasted effort trying to put the power to the ground with the wrong wheels! :banghead:

However, to get to the disagreements...

1) Ford Kicking Ferrari's ass at LeMans... This came after the Old Man shot down Ford's offer to buy Ferrari after a deal was already pretty much agreed on... Ford put a "No-Expense-Too-Great" effort behind kicking their asses... Ford's resources versus Ferrari's, who do you think was gonna win???

As far as your statement about Corvette's being some of the best sports cars, you bring up the 69 big-block... While I would give my left nut for one of these cars, I DON'T consider it a "sports car." I've driven two of them, and while the torque is an incredible rush, they handle like a drunken shopping cart!!! :2cents:

As far as your Cobra reference... Chevy wasn't involved in any way... Ford was kinda involed in a "back-door" thru Carrol, but never really at the time admitted real involvement... This was a British A.C. Bristol chassis that Shelby thought would kick ass with a small block... GM shot him down, so he went to Ford.

As far as the gearbox in these cars, every person I've met or read HATED how this car shifted... They had to reverse the shifter in the car because of the tranny location, and it made shifting feel like reaching into a bag of antlers...

posted by  Rat King

My whole point about the sc'ed Miata's was how the power of a small-bore, street car could equal the equivilant domestic for less dollars...

Obviously you come from a drag background, while I ended up being an auto-cross\road-race guy, so our needs out of a car are ALOT different!!! :thumbs:

I'm not trying to be a dick... I grew up in a family where if something didn't have a SBC or a V-Twin, it wasn't worth shit!!! And I still have no interest in crotch-rocket bikes... Give me a stripped FLH in black, and I'm happy!!!

However, running my stock 95 Miata in SCCA autocross, my times were consistently 1 to 1-1/2 second quicker over the course than SVT Cobra's...

Put the same two cars on the strip, and yawn while I wander towards the traps!!! :laughing:

Just two different worlds... I just think you need to accept that ALL cars can be cool, if built for their intended purpose!!!

posted by  Rat King

Here's the prime point. You're a narrowminded a s s who thinks anything but your favorite is stupid. Grow up, dickhead.

Road racing and pro rallye have been around longer than your precious drag racing, and are the worldwide standard for motorsports. Light, agile cars are the key to going fast AND turning corners (i.e. generating G foces in more than one direction). But just because YOU'RE not into that is no reason to be so gddamn insulting about everything else.

I've been road racing and slalom racing for over 25 years. I've crewed for formula cars, and a pro rallye car, and have been involved in the building of national championship winning SCCA slalom racers and road racers (like the Team Seattle Porsche GT3s when they won the GT class in 1999 in the Rolex 24hrs of Daytona). But I've also built many big block drag cars (454 powered '66 Chevelle, 455 powered Pontiacs, a couple 460 powered Fox Mustangs, etc), as well as hybrids (a highly modded 5.0 in an '86 mazda RX7 for example: ).

I'm simply not brain dead enough to have to like one or the other.

Sports cars and sport sedans have been the backbone of worldwide motorsports for many, many decades, and the imports you make fun of are often emulating that type of car. they sound the way they do because traditional 4 cyl sports cars and sport sedans sound that way in race form.

posted by  ChrisV

They do it because it's different, it's a challenge, and because people say it can't be done. Well, 10 years ago, you couldn't turn 11s in a FWD car, without being completely unstreetable and most likely going to break. Now you can run 10s in a daily driver FWD car (many people do it). Put up an engineering challenge, and people are going to try to come up with solutions. That's the fun of it.

People putting down others for wanting to do something that's a challenge are simply ridiculous.

posted by  ChrisV

Everybody is going to have a opinion about the tuner/muscle car issue. I am a muscle car guy, it's got a lot to do with what your dad was driving and what era of automotive development you grew up in. When you go to a local car show ask an old timer what he thinks about the import scene, you know what response I usally get ? It's something along the lines of nah don't really like them but it seems to remind me of my hotrodding days. Import cars are just the new hot rods for the young pups. Well the sound is annoying and most people don't like them, but it's nice to see that kid's can have something to hot rod like we all did in our youth. It's not the kid's fault they can't afford a muscle car, they don't really make too many american hot rods anymore, so an import is the only way to go. Ask yourself if you want to hot rod a saturn or a cavalier? Didn't think so. And as far as the whole nascar thing, last time I looked isn't toyota doing pretty good in the nascar truck series with a tundra ! Hey drive what you like, if you don't like imports, you don't like american muscle, whatever go smoke someone at the track in a honda, go smoke a camaro in your civic, just be safe and enjoy the one thing we all got in common. WE ALL LOVE CARS !!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink2:

posted by  ode94

No, i hate imports and i love muscle cars so that statement is wrong.

A 950ci corvette? Don't make me laugh. That car couldn't hold an engine that size if its life depended on it. That's more than twice the size of any motor Chev has ever made.

Lol dipshit its not factory its a custom built frame witha vettes body everything is made ground up, he just loves the vette and thats what he picked. I think as far as cars go the oldest car made with good style would be a 57 bel air a 69 vette or 59 cadillac. Yes to the young ones those may be special cars in this era, but they believe they can stomp the muscle cars in the ground like their pitiful performance and wont match up to any of their standards. its actually more vice versa.

However, running my stock 95 Miata in SCCA autocross, my times were consistently 1 to 1-1/2 second quicker over the course than SVT Cobra's...

Good point, the svt cobra is sad so are the rest of the mustangs, fords best shot was the 428 cobra jet or the boss 302.

Import cars are just the new hot rods for the young pups...

Dont ever use the word hotrod conjuncted with rice cookers theres a bigg difference.

What knowledge i know about cars is confinded behidn a screen and you only know what i type, so who are you to judge my intelligence on automotive tuning? As you gave your 3 post speech on rally cars i told you i dont care, thats just not my thing if you like it then go a head i have no problems with those cars, long as they dont pull up to my era of cars and act out that there the best damn thing sense sliced bread and every muscle car produced aint worth a shit compared to these cars. Face it even with all the bitching and crying you ricers do hotrods and muscle cars are true breeds of 1/2 demons. as to the ricer with the 160 8 second car theres a guy down at the strip who doesnt run a nitrous hookup or a blower and does mid 6's and the damn things driven on track courses that smoke everything but the shadow ahead of it itself!

The new hemis dont deserve to be called hemis the real hemis were ones in the 70's and cars earlier

Wow blowers kits for your car are 2850 and beat those overpriced turbo chargers in the quarter mile. And arent turbo chargers highest price like 80k or something?

Some great rice fryers i found

A beautiful work of art

another beautiful engine

a nice 454

a beautiful small block

the most common punk cars around here

as far as the sports car subject, there is always room for improvement who knows what will come off the drawing board for gm

the whole nascar truck thing, eh whats the point in racing vehicles that soul purpose is to get over rough terrains, and haul mass amounts of junk from point a to b. So the tundras so great then how come you never see the import trucks trying to compete in the offroad truck events? Maybe because ford dodge and chevy are the only trucks worth claiming the title as real trucks? never seen any imported trucks in the monster truck leauges...

posted by  Greaser1957

want me to make the issue as plain as day to why i posted this?

Here forget about the other shit and answer this. Why do you ricers stomp on us so much? What makes that weedwacker sound so powerful over a hemi to you? there is a big difference between a lion and a jackass. I generally hate that noise on cars like that punk car i showed you and the guys that drive them think they cant be beat or smoked by anything? Maybe its just me but everyone who drives those kinda cars around here are stuck up assholes who think they have a better car then anything american made.

posted by  Greaser1957

A 950ci corvette? Don't make me laugh. That car couldn't hold an engine that size if its life depended on it. That's more than twice the size of any motor Chev has ever made

In further conjuntion this is not factory built, these engines are from SCA alone a company that does not distribute the engines to the public rather then private buisness among other fellow familys members. This is a guy who help put out there the design methods for the concept viper that could rock anything on the laguna seca if it was ever used. this cars top speed is kept confident but living close to him i know enough to say as great as this cars built lol you guys should give up in the long run, and i can say that without having to read facts. pistons almost the size of basketballs in a custom frame reinforced car, like i said everythigns supersized like those hardees burgers, alot of goodies. But if this doesnt still make you beleive anything the guys stationed in cali right now i believe its a midnight pearl vette, 60 inch street tires on the rear, nice set of cragers. now remember this car is built everything by hand like west coast custom or the monster garage deals. If that didnt make sense then the whole clear as day thing is just too foggy for ya. All i know is im wasting my time sitting here explaining stuff to a bunch of idiots who think imports are the ebst thing sense the invention of duct tape. I advise that as the world spins plans will be developed, GM is not a bunch of rejects and they have come up with solutions to most things. Lets not mention they design 85% combined with general eletric making the tanks that save your ass everyday and the worlds toughest truck the military h1 hummer, and designs the jet engines for the airforce and the navys aircraft that keep your little boxcar from being sacrificed if any war were to take apon invading us. lets not talk politics though ebcause thats a whole seperate subject to what were on about now. the complete statement american muscle is the real quarter mile kings, and american sports cars will always find ways to make fun of whatever you got out there. i dont care how good of a lemanz porsche team member/ designer or whatever you were you still dont enough to criticise my grandfathers work, and the contious job or the real mechanics the greasers themselvs. sure we may have died out but that dont mean i stopw earing my leather jacket and taking your girl out of your car with just a simple pull up :wink2: im out because this is a waste of time, iv posted what i wanted to get out, **** yall ricers, and goodluck to try and keep up with us on the track :thumbs: untill you strap rockets to those cars your not getting past us unless your stupid enough to think so :screwy:

posted by  Greaser1957

Ricers might stomp on you, but theyd on't represent the entire tuner world. Remember that. Just because hitler was human, does that mean he speaks for all humans?

Personal preference. To me, I would take the sound of twin turbos spooling up and a HKs blow off valve over a giant Hemi rumbling. That doesn't mean I hate that engine, it just means I would take the turbos over it.

And there's a difference between a tuner and a ricer.

That's them, and that's their problem, but who says that they are the tuner world? You think this pic;
Is of a guy with his car who thinks its hot sh*t? probably not, he's just doing what he loves, whats your problem with him messing around with his car? You don't like the way it looks? Well, that's your opinion, and your entitled to it, but you don't always have to voice it.

Then, that's the driver, not the car. But some imports are better than domestics and some domestics are better than imports.

*sigh* see above.

feel better?

posted by  Godlaus

Maybe they stomp you so much because you're a closed minded asshole. This statement sums it up:

You're too immature to be able to figure out anything but your narrowminded little likes. You're as bad as the worst of the ricers you hate. Grow up.

It's good to have favorites. Hating on everything that isn't your favorite in order to justify HAVING those favorites is retarded and immature. Why is that a valuable goal for you?

Maybe it IS just you, because that's YOUR own attitude you're projecting on everyone else.

posted by  ChrisV

Haha, why do you even bother with this Greaser idiot? Hell a good percentage of you people here are'nt even qualified enough to speak on behalf of the import world so you got idiots talking to ignorants.... Thats really going to get something solved.

ChrisV has explained the import craze a million times over... its shame people still have'nt listened..

posted by  DSMer

No, i wouldn't say so, ChrisV got a good point out, that;

and if it wasn't for posts like these, then there wouldn't be a place to post something like that.

You suggesting the mods should close threads like these?

posted by  Godlaus

My dad grew up in the 50s. When I was a kid, it was teh heyday of the musclecar. When I turned 15, I was an apprentice in a street rod and vintage car restoration shop. My first two race cars at 16 were a '71 Torino GT w/429CJ, and a '72 Pinto 2 liter for slalom racing (both of which I bought myself). I see no reason to narrow your focus to one genre unless you don't have the brain power for it. You can have a favorite, but hating on the rest is simply stupid.

And that right there is the truth.

This is a hobby. It's supposed to be fun. Hating on and insulting people enjoying a different aspect of the hobby is absolutely idiotic. Moronic. Closedminded. Stupid. Immature. Basically, all the worst traits of humans show up in people like Greaser1957, and the worst part is, he WANTS to be that retarded of a human being just so he can say, "I hate imports and I love muscle cars."

I love muscle cars, too, and have built and owned many. I don't have to hate everything else to love musclecars. I love light, agile sportscars and sport coupes. I don't have to hate everything else to love them.

You guys might want to try it. Who knows? You might actually become well rounded enthusiasts who actually have a clue.

posted by  ChrisV

Ahh! The smell of ignorance in the morning is just...oh so satisfying...

Okay, first off, the F&F cars did NOT have 350s in them...They had the stock engine the car came with, they weren't even that fast (well of course some of them were), they just made the cars seem like they were going fast on film, the only mods done to the cars were aesthetic mods and nitrous.

As for your pure ignorance of how an engine can make amazing amounts of power with a small engine for relativly small amount of money, just look at honda. Honda makes engines that are so technically advanced that they can push more than 100 hp per liter (which hereafter I will call HPPL as I will be saying this a lot). The B16a2 is a 1.6 liter engine making 170 horsepower thats 106.25 HPPL.

Now your precious Chevelle SS with the LS6 454 makes 450 hp out of 7.44 liters.Do the math...I'l wait...done?

If your pee brained, V8 filled head couldn't work it out, the LS6 makes 60.483871 HPPL, a little more than half the B16. If the B16 was 7.44 liters it would make 790.5 hp

If you can't see my point it's this:
The four cylinder imports with "weedwacker" engines that you speak of, are so refined and so technologically advanced that they don't need to be 7.44 liters large in order to perform well.

posted by  Zalight

It's pretty easy to judge your intelligence by analizing your posts. You've proven that you are closed minded and hate everything but your drag racing musclecars. In fact, you don't even like all drag racing musclecars, but you only like a narrow slice OF those musclecars. Therefore you know very little about the automotive scene in general beceuse you, by your own admission, wouldn't have paid attention to much of it outside your narrow range of interests. And since your unreasonable hatred of, and anger towards, a different aspect of the hobby (and even different brands inside your own aspect) shows your mental ability and stability, it's pretty easy to translate your lack of brain power to every other aspect of your life.

posted by  ChrisV

Oh and while im ranting:

what the hell does how a car shift have to do with its performance on a track. That has to do with the cars weight, steering, suspension, etc. And your muscle cars are heavy, with clunky steering and soft suspension. Thats why they get outperformed on road courses and autocross, not because of their shifting.

posted by  Zalight

AAARRGGGHHH! if you're going to fight ignorance, then don't do it with MORE IGNORANCE!!!!!!!!

Not the tired, lame, and completely ignorant hp/liter argument again!!!! A Cox .049 gas RC aircraft engine makes almost 500 hp/liter, but would you want it to power your car??? The smaller an engine is, the more hp/liter it makes at the same state of tune. Unfortuantley, it also makes LESS OVERALL POWER.

No, it WOULDN'T.

if it could then why didn't Hondas B18 ALREADY make over 300 hp? Honda's 600cc 4 cyl, water cooled DOCH motorcycle engine makes over 100 streetable hp. So why doesn't their own engine that is 3 times the displacement make 3 times the hp???? If the S2000 made the same streetable hp/liter than the CBR600 F4 made, it would make over 400 normally aspirated hp RIGHT NOW! The FACT is that simply upping the displacement does not increase hp in a linear fashion. Period. Your argument is false.

Please, it's bad enough we have to deal with people like this. Don't give him typical ricer argumetns that show him to be right!

And technologically advanced ONLY works in electronic engine management. The DOHC, 4 valve per cyl design has been with us since around 1912! It's NOT newer tech.

posted by  ChrisV

I know, Im just saying they are powerful engines.

Its quite obvious that uppig the displacement doesn't bring up the power in the same linear way...I was only trying to make a point.

I didn't say it was.

posted by  Zalight

But it was an inaccurate point that is EXACTLY why ricer attitude is as much bullsh*t as his attitude. Insulting the V8s for reasons that are wrong is no better than insulting imports for reasons that are wrong. How hard is this for people to figure out?

We can only fight automotive ignorance with truth, not more bullsh*t.

You said they were more technologically advanced. That implies they are higher tech. Thus you did say that which you now say you didn't. The advanced tech is in electronic engine management, and modern domestic V8s are as advanced as any others in that regards.

posted by  ChrisV

OK, your right.

But just so you know, I assure you I am not a ricer.

posted by  Zalight

I know, that's why I didn't want you giving out typical Ricer arguments that make you sound like one!


posted by  ChrisV

Hey greasball, first off tuck your ego away for a moment. Little rice cars are the hot rods of the new millenium, I didn't make it so, tell the large american auto makers to make cars that kids can mod and want to drive. Second I alway's thought rice cookers cooked rice. Third Toyota's 2wd tundra would probably smoke your sh1tty rot box and you see alot of toyota's racing in baja, desert races, or how about the stadium racing. Fourth I don't bluff, you want some? Come to New England Dragway any Weds or Fri in the spring/summer. Put your money where your mouth is bitch, I got a nice set of corvette tail lights to show you. Fifth do me a favor, get up from your computer, go to your kitchen, and pour yourself a big glass of SHUT THE F@#K UP ! Oh yeah one last thing, greaseball, if you hate imports that much, go buy every import car owner a muscle car.. I'll take a 427 69 camaro, silver please... :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu:

posted by  ode94

This is probably the most pointless and dumb post EVER in the history of car-forums. I could comment on about, EVERYTHING, you said. But i'll just leave it to one.

Why wont they let Imports into nascar, uh, they DO. Ever see the Tundra's running around and placing pretty high up in Craftsman truck? Want to the reason why Imports dont put cars/trucks into NASCAR really? They are REQUIRED to use 5.7L OHV 16v V-8's. Now, how many import manufacturers even HAVE OHV engines still in their lineup of cars/trucks/vans (NONE!)? They see no need in developing them JUST for use in NASCAR (definatley no point in making an OHV V-8 for thier regular lineup, as they already make higher output DOHC V-8's. They put their race money in other forms of racing, Honda and Toyota put a TON of cash into Forumla 1. A racing scene that Domestic makers cant even seem to TOUCH nowadays (goodbye are the days of Ford-Cosworth). Also Nissan, Toyota and Honda put a lot of money into JGTC. Mitsubishi and Subaru are all about WRC. Just because you dont see Hondas,Toyotas or Nissans running around in NASCAR doesn't make them inferior in any way. It's quite dumb to call them inferior in that fact since they USE inferior engines compared to other racing leagues. Think of it this way...

Nextel Cup - 5.7L OHV 16v V-8 -> 700-750hp (Redline - 9000rpms, something a Stock 2000-2003 Honda S2000 sees in everyday driving)
Forumla One - 3.0L DOHC 50v V-10 -> 800hp-850hp (Redline -19,000rpms, something small four banger BIKES cant even reach)

The day NASCAR moves to allow 4v SOHC/DOHC V8's is the day you will see Import manufacturers REALLY come in the sport.

posted by  thunderbird1100

hmmm ....why argue? :screwy:

posted by  NITeZ

Yeah, I apologize for that... The times that they're running is impressive, and my hat's off to these guys!!! Hooking the fronts up with all the weight transfer to the rear is hard to pull off, and they've got it down!!! :oops:

posted by  Rat King

Thank you ChrisV for making some very important points... My original idea was to simply refute some of Greaser's points, and hopefully open his mind a little...

Unfortunately, when I started posting, he was still online, and just when I'd start to correct him on one point, he'd post another misinformed gem, like the Chevy Cobra... :banghead:

I just don't understand this guy... I grew up in a muscle car family, and now I own an rx7 GTU, after owning an mr2, CRX Si and a Miata...

I just happen to like small-bore cars, but at the same time I'd love to have a nice 66 Chevelle SS. Don't understand his hatred of anyone who doesn't like what HE likes... Hell, most of the other poster's DO appreciate muscle cars, but that doesn't matter to him...

Unfortunately, I think his problems are deeper-rooted than just cars... My cars are my therapy, but I think this guy needs a Thorazine Big-Gulp!!!

posted by  Rat King

posted by  GreekWarrior

i look at it like this...most of us started out working with muscle cars. i started with a 74 Buick Apollo with a 350 4 bolt. so i'm just as much into muscle cars as imports. just you can do so much more with an import in my eyes. yes the cost are more expensive but that is what makes it fun. btw did anyone else hear that Chevrolet is suposed to be bring back the camaro? seen a concept for it. they trying to do what ford did with the stang and make the camaros look like a 69 ss. :thumbs: :rock:

posted by  NITeZ

I agree I stated out with a 1969 Torino, I own a vette now. I don't care what your driving, isn't it about all comers enjoying, modifiying, and racing cars/trucks. We all have one thing in common, no matter how fast you think your car is there's alway's somebody faster !!! Greaseball is way outta line. :cussing:

posted by  ode94

The fast and the furios.... I loved that one. And it was made to "dawn apon imports as they are so great". Pardon me? I'm sure you did....>>><<<...However, despite your inherent posting prowess achieved at 15 posts, you can't type for shit. And even if you could, you have no coherent thoughts to type.

So how's about this- if you hate Asian Imports, then why do you post in the ASIAN IMPORTS section? If you dislike people who do to their car what they want, then why do you post in the section that caters more to their area of interest? So please. Don't just post to stir up shit. Because when you open your mouth, as we have just seen, you officially lose even with your best vipers and all that other bullshit. So crawl back under whatever God-forsaken rock you came from, and come back when The Fast and the Furios has dawned apon imports as they are so great. Because maybe then we will know what the f*ck you are trying to say.

posted by  Patrick

you gotta think...Tuners (smaller enginged cars) were NOT made for speed. They were made for effiecency. Some smart guy thought hey we don't really need all these really fast but gas gusseling cars i'll make a smaller one which can go pretty fast but more effeicent for the enviroment and on gas mileage. Thats also why they are coming out with the new hybirds and crap becuase its not about speed and shit its about saveing the ****ing planet we live on.

I'm no hippy but seriously they are 2 different things tuners and muscle cars. One was an improvment on the other to increase mileage and dangerous emmsions and give up a bit of power. So really this has been pretty stupid. Get ur facts straight MUSCLE IS FOR MUSCLE TUNERS WERE AN IMPROVEMENT FOR EFFICENTCY NOT MUSCLE AND NOW THE HYBIRD IS AN IMPROVMENT FOR EFFIENTCEY NOT POWER TO SAVE OUR PLANET FOR BEING BACKED BY THE SUN
I still like both car types its just this shit is pretty stupid and therefore doesn't give the right for you rices (not all tuners) to shit on muscle cars cause ur cars were made to go ****ing slower retards.

sorry a bit angery

posted by  Private Donkey

Haha, you think they care about the environnement? Yah right. Would you care if you were bringing in millions of dollars? Would you be willing to cut your profeits in half to save such a little portion of the environnement? No.

Everybody needs to realize that every company is in for it for the money. No matter what you want to believe, that's what every company wants. There would be no company if all they cared about was this planet.

They also aren't built for efficiency in a sense. They're built so people can afford them. There's no money if nobody can afford them. So basically the less money you have, the more efficient your vehicle is going to be, and the more money you have, the nicer, less efficient vehicle you're going to buy. Take the cavalier for instence, it's cheap, about 16,000, so most people can afford one, gets good mileage and all that jazz, but no power. Now, take a PT Cruiser for instence, middle class car, bigger car, no more power, fancier car but gets worse mileage due to its size. So economy just comes with what you can afford. They aren't exactly trying to make them more economic, they're making them as cheap as they can which makes them more economic.

On the same not, they aren't even concentrated on economy, they're concentrated on power. They're trying to get the most power from a small motor, meaning they have to create a better burn in some way. Which increases economy at the same time. So they're inter-linked I guess you could say.

posted by  88GrandPrixSE

ok, i do agree that they are better on saving gas. But how is a damn 05 honda accord going to cost the same if not more than a GTO? you have your kia's and hyundai's that are reasonable, but nissan, honda and all other popular companies are WAY over priced, 30+ thousand for a friggin' altima? I love nissans, but their prices are not that affordable. gas is a little better than a bigger engine car, but the insurance and payments kick you in the ass. for instance, my girl owned a 95 Prelude. i believe the best mileage i ever calculated was around 23 mpg on the road. My 88 T/A gets 21 on the road. WTF? the prelude was in great shape too. SOHC 5 spd honda gets 2 mpg better than Trans am? hmm, i think that you get good cars and bad cars, and that everyone is entitled to say what they want. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has got one. imports are cool, domestic, hell, i like em all. thats just me though. but yeah, most imports are great, long lasting and efficient cars. Those new models can stay on the lot though.

posted by  NoahT

most of them are decent on gas mileage. but yeah, just leave the little guy alone for god sakes...these rice haters need to pick on someone their own size, i mean they probably can't, and I guess it makes them feel better about their slow cars to hate on something half the size. ehh, back off losers.

posted by  NoahT

where i work my boss has a mustang (dont know what type) its great and all but i still like imports better. i would rather choose a road that has millions of hairpins and S turns than just a straight highway. now if u try a 800hp+ (not sure about that though) muscle car on a track like that, depending on the car most of the time a euro or a jap car will probably win. but if its a drag race muscle cars will kick ass and i know that from experience. now dont be so close minded and realise there is a bigger world out there...past american muscle

posted by  ahoo

Haha, no american muscle car makes 800hp, I don't know of a factory car that makes that much. Period. Maybe the Maclearen F1 since it is an indy car.. so it'll make about 800hp but that's all I can think of.

Not all amercan muscle cars are built for a straight line, GTO is a good example of that.

Just to tell you, you did NOT contradict yourself there or make yourself look biased or anything :roll:

posted by  88GrandPrixSE

Did he say factory, or did I miss something?

I don't think the McLaren has 800+. More like 650 I think.

posted by  ToCkS

I'll say this people. I sat and read the entire thread right now and it took about 25 minutes to do so. I try not to type about shit that i don't know cause in reality i dont know much about cars. I'm not that big of an enthusiast. I just say what i can, and sometimes i'm wrong but i'm not scared to admit it. But i'd rather not know shit about cars and be able to appreciate everything from American to European to Japanese, than know a shitload about one specific type of car and talk garbage about everything else. If you wanna talk shit about imports then talk that shit to an import enthusiast. With all the small block 353' ladedaa you must know a little more than something about American cars. So why don't you talk shit to someone who knows a little more than something about imports, not kids you see on the streets with duct tape holding up their wings cause they obviously don't know very much about imports. You see people who as kids love cars and get into them as they grow when the guy is 40years old he finally finishes on his greatest project and starts up his 730whp Chevy, hears the rumble and sits there in pride. I think car restoration is one of the best things of th car world and it's great for a man to do that. Now imagine the same picture except the car is replaced with a 240sx. New paint job, twin turbo, gleaming chrome another thing of beauty that took years to accomplish. bulletproof engine, and a daily driver. Are you gonna tell that guy that his hard work is just a piece of shit, cause a real car lover will sit there and appreciate both.

Or better yet...SCREW CARS GET LAID WHILE YOU STILL CAN KIDS cause pretty soon sex'll get tiring, u'll need viagra, the bitch won't get on top....

posted by  VMJYogi

heheeh. I'm 41, and none of that applies. In fact, hopefully it won't apply for decades to come...


posted by  ChrisV

Come on Chris... You dont get a little tired or fatigued? Not just a lil bit? Come on... you can be truthful here.

posted by  VMJYogi

You know every once in a while somone just HAS to cross that line of "too much information". :laughing:

posted by  DSMer

I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

posted by  jdubya

well sorry about that thats why i sad i wasn't sure about it. plus i said that "depending on the car" some can't turn. sorry for the misunderstanding

posted by  ahoo

Way overpriced? Yet the Accord/Camry/Altima DOMINATE the family car market. The Civic/Corolla DOMINATE the small car market (with only the Focus being of any competition). Obviously the people have voted in those car markets and agree with the prices those manufacturers are willing to sell them for. That 23mpg must have been city only, because that engine/tranny combo easily will net 30mpg on the highway (I have the near exact engine {F22} in my Accord except I have an auto tranny that nets less mpg than the 5spd and I even get 22-24 city 30-32 highway). So either that 23mpg is city only or your girlfriend couldnt drive sanely overall.

posted by  thunderbird1100

I love it when I havent checked the forums in months, and come back to another completely ignorant only half legible post bashing imports.
so many people are lucky I don't have a big ole ban stick. I'd hit people over the head with it all to often.

posted by  b_DuB13

:laughing: that would be nice. maybe you should make one. i really didn't get the point dude was trying to make and really could care less. just love how everyone wants to argue over something that made no sense in the first place :screwy:

posted by  NITeZ

greaser, sorry i forgot that speed and typos were the only thing of importance in the world

i bet if you put a piece of your ego in the tank of that dart in your backyard it might even do 160??

posted by  325iSe30

"Yes but looks like nascar didnt let the imports race on the track because thatd be a joke."

toyota is running a car next season i do believe.....

posted by  325iSe30

greaser, your arguments are just one fallacy after another, shut up

posted by  325iSe30

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