car stereo help

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i want alot of watts but not much money. what are the best brands for subs and amps? thanks

posted by  ciVicman

Watts dont mean ANYTHING. Some subs sound best with only 300-400 watts to them. Dont go by what most manufacturers rate their stuff, because 9 times out of 10 it's very wrong. What you're really trying to say is you want the LOUDEST (SPL) system you can buy on a budget. What's your budget?

posted by  thunderbird1100

rigth now im only about 14 but ive been looking at car accessories already. my budget will probably be about $750 TOPS.

posted by  ciVicman

"Only about 14" - Are you 14 or not?

Shouldnt you worry about this when you actually have a car - in 2 years?

posted by  thunderbird1100

ok well im 16 and im probleby buyin a lexus IS300 from wat peoplke tell me to do and i have like a grand to spend on sound so wat should i get

posted by  MoB YuNGuN

What do you want, SPL or SQ?

posted by  thunderbird1100

um i dk wat do u think i should have i want a loud thumpin sound sytem to

posted by  MoB YuNGuN

Okay...so, SPL.

What are you willing to spend.

posted by  thunderbird1100

like 800 to 1000

posted by  MoB YuNGuN

Ummm... $750 seemed a bit limited for a decent sound system...

Mine cost me £1000 ($1900) and its nothing special...

Here what my set up is:

Alpine CDM 9807RB - head unit (4x pre outs running 60 watt each)
Rockford Fosgate punch P4004- amp (1200 watts 4 channel)
JBL 12" GT-4 seris Sub (1000 watt 250 watt RMS)
Infinty 6x9 (330 watt 115 watt RMS)
4x JBL front speakers
Needs a new wiring kit (was Qdos pro comp)

I brigded the two channels of the amp for the sub and run the other 2 channels to power the 6x9's.

My other two sets of speakers are run by my 4 channel 60wattx4 pre-out alpine head unit.

if i was you i would go for a full on kit where you get everything included. it should work out a lot cheaper as a package deal. :thumbs:

posted by  Lukaz

I'm about 14, just like I said, I'll be 14 in about 2 weeks. Its not like I'm gonna get my system now, I just wanted some expert advice on car stereos.

posted by  ciVicman

Now this is for an ENTIRE sound setup, or just subs/amp?

posted by  thunderbird1100

just subs and amps (and wires and all other little necessities)

posted by  ciVicman

Its FOr Eveything >>>>>>MOB<<<<<<<

posted by  MoB YuNGuN

for the money your lookin to spend dont expect much. i spent $1300 on my entire system but my friends hooked me up. i ended up with alpine type s 6.5s components in the front type s 6x9's in the back 3 10" JL w3v2s a JL1000 mono amp and sum sony xplode head unit. if i were u i wouldnt worry rite now ur not near ready to look. but on ur budget id stay in the area of sony xplode and kicker ur not gunna be able to get high quality on a small budget

posted by  CivicSi

My god.

You want stereo components and pricing when your only 14?!...

fat lot of good that will do come two years.

...sorry, but its true.

Sadly, a stereo you buy will be mostly obsolete in a couple months...
which really sucks if you always want the latest and greatest gear.

If you want something LOUD and HARD HITTING, yet CLEAN, look towards the Kicker CompVR series subs. A 12" CompVR will not only drill the decibels out, with minimal power needed, but will also hit tight and clean, so you'll not only get the SPL you want, but still have the SQ.

You want a flashy looking deck, thats trashy sounding, or a slightly lesser flashy deck, with better sound?...

I recommend either a Pioneer or Alpine in this situation, definitely quality decks, and they aren't too bad for looks either(on the lower cost ones that is)

Speakers, you really don't have to worry about how low they can go, but really about how clean the sound is, and the decibels/efficiency, at least for an SPL setup. These really depend on your personal testing. I mean, I could recommend several different speakers, really recommend a certain pair, but you could go listen to it, in the exact same setup i heard it in, and absolutely hate the sound. Don't worry yourself too much with the dB's/efficiency, as that won't make sense to you, but that's okay. It took me awhile to figure it out myself.

As for the amplifier, all depends on what you want to do with it. Do you want it just to be a workhorse for the subwoofer, or do you also want it to drive speakers? In today's age, I would recommend a digital amplifier, way more efficient in regards to driving the cone of a subwoofer(less energy lost due to heat). I could get into more specifics about that, but it won't make a whit of difference to you.

If your looking for something loud, and not to worried about the SQ, i'd say you would be looking at the 750-1000$ range, installed.

If you want the best of both worlds, SPL and SQ, your looking at a couple hundred more.

If your shooting for more SQ then anything, then your starting to talk double the budget you set.

posted by  dodgerforlife

While I agree with a lot of what you said...I cant agree on getting the CVR. I really think these are the most overrated subs on the market. They do sound good (well okay, in its segment) and they CAN get somewhat loud (although clearly not the loudest in its segment) they have the usual Kicker cone problems and are way overpriced for the specs on them. They only have a measely 47oz magnet (12" talking here) and 2" VC's. The Xmax is pretty short. Plus, have you seen the new CVR's? They look like flashy chrome turds (did Kicker start designing it's stuff after Audiobahn!!! Gawd I hope not)! I love Kicker, well I love Kicker amps... For the pricepoint of the CVR there are so many better subs out it's rediculous. For the $100 market the sub I believe that is nearly the best if not THE best is the Diamond Audio CM3 series (phased out now though). You can pick the 12" version up for under $120 and the specs on it are nice, 500rms, Dual 2.5" VC's, good xmax and a much more massive magnet than the CVR.

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=12441< br />
Even a $50 12" DVC Volfenhag has better specs than the CVR and it's half the price. Also, the Volf will outperform the CVR in SQ and SPL.

posted by  thunderbird1100

I was going for stuff someone could pick up in a local store...

and i've heard a single 10" cvr take on a 12"(can't remember brand right now, i just woke up...), and the cvr whupped it.

i do agree with you on the silver cone crap, last years model was so much nicer...

whats the kicker cone problem that you're referring to? I live in a city where a lot of kids have more brains then money and will drop an aftermarket deck and 2-3 subs into their car, and all you can hear is the bass...but in all the one's i've seen installed, i haven't seen or heard of a problem.

and magnet size really has nothing to do with how good the subwoofer is. Look at some trashy 20$ bargain sub, they'll have some massive 70oz magnet on an 8" sub, and it sounds like shit.

and as a side note, i once again refer to a persons personal taste. maybe he could hear the volfenhag and the CVR side by side, and think the CVR(or the volfenhag) is the better. I guess what I should really do is put a disclaimer on any post that I write that involves car audio - something that says something to the effect of that all I'm doing is recommending components, please check them out before you actually purchase the stuff.

posted by  dodgerforlife

Why pay extra for local store stuff? Plus you wont find the best brands usually at local car places. Wont be finding Adire Audio Brahmas or Resonant Engineering XXX's at your nextdoor place.

The Kicker cone problem is more prevalent on the Sqaure L5/L7's but I've heard and seen a few cases on which the cone HAS detatched on the Comp/VR series.

Magnet size DOES play a role. I never said it means the sub is good or bad based upon its size, it just means it probably has a good enough motor for good power handling. In the $100 12" market most subs have between a 75-125oz magnet, and the Comp VR falls short of that. Personal taste or not, the Volfanhag DVC sounds better and beats out more dB's than a Comp VR hooked up to the same amp.

My friend and I actually did a test of these two subs against each other. Orginally he had a Kenwood KFC-W3009 12" (up to 400rms, but amp gave it 200rms) ran by a KAC-8151D amp (200rms 4ohm,400rms 2ohm). He's a Kenwood audio car nut (everything was Kenwood). He wasnt satisfied after a while with the sub so he replaced it with a last gen 12" Comp VR powered by the same amp (giving it 400rms). The SQ didnt change much at all really, on our measurements he only gained 3.6 dB's going to 126.3dB's (original Kenwood setup hit 122.7 dB's). We think most of the extra dB's came from doubling the power (the CVR got 400rms @ 2ohm and the Kenwood only got 200rms @ 4ohm). Both were tested in the same 1cu-ft sealed box. When I finally convinced him to get rid of the CVR for a Volf 12" DVC we installed it (in the same 1cu-ft sealed box) and immediately noticed a big SQ difference (for the better) and on the meter it rang up 128.2dB's with the same amount of power the CVR got (400rms) and while the CVR was at its power handling limit the Volf still had another 200rms to play with (600rms sub). Mind you this Volfenhag DVC was bought for HALF as much as his CVR.

posted by  thunderbird1100

A) I can't even get half the brands that you get, I do live in canada. It does limit some of my choices.

B) I've never heard of the cones detaching. Not once. Never. I've seen detached Sony cones, but never a kicker cone. Even a square kicker. To actually blow a cone off, unless its a defect, you would have to be overpowering the sub, by way too much.

C)ONCE AGAIN, FALSE! Magnet size is NOT the biggest factor, rather the strength of the magnet itself. The three most common styles of magnets found on a sub are Neodynium, Strontium, and Ferrite. Their strength order goes from (strongest)Neodynium, to (weakest), Ferrite. A 50oz Neodynium magnet is stronger then a 100oz Ferrite magnet. So don't even start to tell me some bull about the size of the magnet being the biggest factor.

Several examples of 12" subs with a less then 75oz magnet weight:
Blaupunkt 12" PC series = 40oz about 70$
Boss 12" Riot = 60oz about 25$
Crunch 12" Gangsta = 40oz about 40$
JVC 12" G Funk = 62oz about 110$
Kenwood 12" Typhoon = 63oz about 100$
Kicker 12" CVR = 47oz about 100$
Memphis Audio 12" MC series = 50oz about 105$
MTX 12" Road Thunder = 20oz about 55$
MTX 12" Audio Thunder = 20oz about 100$
Polk Audio 12" MM series = 60oz about 140$
Rockford 12" Stage 2 = 60oz about 130$

4) I'm gonna call you on this one AGAIN!
"Personal taste or not, the Volfanhag DVC sounds better and beats out more dB's than a Comp VR hooked up to the same amp."

PERSONAL TASTE. two key words right there. Maybe YOU think that it sounds BETTER, maybe someone else will think its WORSE. On paper, sure the volfenhag DVC may beat a Kicker CVR, but throw it into a car, with properly matched amps, and sources, and see what people say.

posted by  dodgerforlife

You can get any brand in Canada you can get here i nthe U.S. IT's called ordering off the internet.

The Kicker cone problem has been around for a few years. Talk to any self respecting audio nut. Ever actually been to audio competitions? Kicker even realizes this and on the Solo X they actually OFFER a cone replacement kit (called the SPAIR).

Again, I NEVER said magnet size was a BIG factor, I just said you passed it off as if it didnt matter, I said it was A FACTOR. Not once did I say a BIG FACTOR. However, the motor structure is what drives the sub! Dont need to preach to me about variations on magnets... I know the drill, and obviously what some companies claim as huge magnets (like cheaper companies with big specs...Legacy...Pyle...Audiobahn) are in fact big piles of Ferrite.

Of ALL those subs you listed only a very select few are worth even buying.

Blaupunkt - They arent even competition in the sub market.
Boss - Well yeah, forgot to mention them on my 'cheap shitty company' list.
Crunch - Forgot to put them on the list too.
JVC - Circuit City sub junk.
Kenwood - Nothing to write home about.
Kicker - Well, you know how I stand.
Memphis - One of the few I actually really like. Mojo's kick some ass.
MTX - Really, the only thing worth buying from them is the 9500 series.
Polk - I actually like Polk's subs. Very good SQ subs. Lacking in power handling though.
Rockford - Bunch of junk...my neighbor has Punch Stage 3's and they sound like shit compared to older HE2's.

SQ is Measured. You do realize they have competitions for SQ. It's not just a matter of personal taste in those competitions. I use SQ test CD's.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Yeah, but try shipping a sub across the border, by the time it gets here, its twice as expensive! Even at that, some of the places don't ship to canada(for example, crutchfield), just because of that.

Yes, I have been to SPL comps. In fact, I've seen a retard blow a sub at one(some no namer brand...then again, in my city, you'd expect that). However, I still stand by the fact that in all the Kicker subs I've seen/heard/talked about, I have never come across one that has blown a cone. When you talk about the replacement cones, Kicker is not the only company to have introduced that, I believe theres two other major companies who also have that(can't remember off the top of my head). You could blow the cone off of any sub if you really try hard enough. (Sure, you say its more prevalent in Kickers, but I still don't agree....)

I didn't just "pass off" the magnet size. Like you said yourself, those huge ferrite stacks are just companies trying to be cheap. And not to mention "flashy".

I never said I endorse any of those companies, I was just pointing out examples where a smaller magnet is used. I mean, a lot of what depends on what a person buys is $$$. I know theres sometimes only a 25$ difference between two subs, and one may whup the other, but sometimes that 25$ is the biggest factor. The other thing that has a factor in buying something is brand preference. Look at me, I swear by Kicker subs(there are others I would buy too, but I'm just using that for an example), and you swear by the Volfenhag's.

Some of the reasons why subs may sound so bad can be dependant on so many factors. Source, Head Unit, Amp, box type/size, wiring kit. I don't claim to be an expert on why they sound bad, but I know enough to know that a 10" in a 4 cubic foot vented box, versus a 1 cubic foot sealed box, will sound crappy.

I know SQ is measured, and that all competitors must use the same disc, to balance the results. And trust me, personal preference often does matter compared to spec sheets. Thing is, 9 out of 10 times, that preference will sway to the one that has the better specs. If you're building nothing but an SQ system, then of course you'll go with the highest quality components. But if you want something that has a mix of SQ and SPL, then its bearing on your personal preference, with the volume wayyyy up.

- excuse me, im really not trying to be an ass, if you think i am...

posted by  dodgerforlife

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