4g63

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we couldn't find an accord yesterday but my dad asked about getting a new motor for my car, i want something better than the regular eclipse motor, with alot more power, how hard would the 4g63 be to install, and what all parts will i need, it is a turbocharged motor, any other suggestions though?

posted by  dsmracersv98

What car (specifically) do you currently have?

If you have a '95-'99 Eclipse/Talon that is non-turbo... it's a VERY difficult swap to put a 4G63 in it. Granted, it can be done, and has been done many times. But, you will ultimately spend more doing the swap than you would selling your non-turbo vehicle and purchasing a factory turbo car.

posted by  Bino

if it is a 420a motor then it will be reallyu hard to put in the 4g63 because the 420a is a USDM motor and everything is on the other side than the 4g63.

But if it is the sohc 4g67 it will not be all that hard since the 4g67 and the 4g63 are both JDM motors. :thumbs:
remember the 4g63's are not DSM motors DSM motors are chrysler

posted by  mx3_monster

Um.... yeah... about that.... that's totally wrong. But good try.

posted by  Bino

ok then you tell me what DSM stands for?

posted by  mx3_monster

Diamond Star Motors, which was a joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi formed somewhere about 1987-1988 (the precise year eludes me), the first vehicle produced under this venture was the 1989 Eagle Talon which was available with a 1.8L SOHC 4G37 motor, or a 2.0L Naturally Aspirated DOHC 4G63, or a turbocharged 2.0L DOHC 4G63. The first time a 420A made its appearance in a DSM vehicle was 1995 in the non turbo Eclipse/Talon vehicles. The 420A was also used in the Dodge/Chrysler Neon, but since it was not produced at the DSM vehicle plant in Normal Illinois the Neon is in no way a DSM vehicle.

The Galant VR-4 is generally considered a DSM vehicle because of the 4G63t/AWD drivetrain, but technically they are not a DSM as they were not produced at the DSM plant in Illinois.

Next.

posted by  Bino

Just brushed up on my DSM's. The DSM venture was dissolved in 1993, so technically the 420A could in no way be associated with a DSM. Also, technically, the 2G DSM vehicles shouldn't be considered DSM's, but given the obvious heritage in the 2G, they are considered by most to be DSM's. My '95 GSX has DSM part number stickers on all of its body panels. This is common to early '95 DSM's.

posted by  Bino

DSM was actually formed in October 1985, just FYI.

posted by  Bino

This is crap. Just because the steering wheel is on the other side, doesn't mean everything on the engine is on the other side. Just because the 420a and the 4G63 motors MAY have their parts on the opposite sides does not mean all JDM and USDM counterparts have parts opposite. It doesnt freaking matter if the original motor was JDM or USDM, to each vehicle its unique. Look at the 240sx, you can easily drop a SR20 into one of them, but wait! Wasn't the original motor USDM? Doesnt that mean everything is opposite of where it should be? No.

Do you not know about joint alliances? Its not only Chrylser/Mitsubishi. Nissan/GM had a short alliance obvious in the previous generation of Quest vans and it's Mercury counterpart. Toyota/GM alliance existed before Toyota opened up their own plants in North America. Mazda/Ford before Ford bought them out.

posted by  aerith

Um, actually, the engines do look mirrored.
420A
http://ridejudge.com/rides2/8946.jpg
4G63
http://go2fast.net/albums/91EagleAWD/P1010014.sized.jpg
Notice the location of the cam gears as well as the direction of the intake manifold/throttle body/air intake.

As far as the 240SX goes, the KA20 engine is mounted vertical because of the RWD, and so is the SR20. It's hard to imagine it reversed.

posted by  elchango36

ok so the 2nd gens are totally different then the first gens. so the first gens came stock with a 2.0l turbocharged motor from the factory then. Or they came with a n/a 2.0l what about the 2.4 was that just in the spyders then

posted by  mx3_monster

ummm....first gens dont come spyders. only 2nd gen does.

posted by  silvia_star

o yeah i forgot about that oooops so what displacement is the 420a then 2.0l im talkin abouit the 2nd gen

posted by  mx3_monster

Doing a 420a to 4g63 swap is possible, but a very difficult task. First, it's not just going to drop right in, the engine mounts are completely different, plus getting the whole wiring harness and installing it all.
If you want a 4g63 that much, it would be much easier to sell your car and buy a 4g63 model Eclipse/Talon, because the cost of doing the swap is quite expensive.

posted by  nsupra27

Since the 420A only came in 2G's... I think we could have pieced that together. Yes, the 420A is a 2.0L, the 2.4L 4G64 motor is a 7-bolt 2.4L version of the 4G63, and was only available in the Eclipse Spyder. The G4CS motor in the late '80's, early '90's Hyundai Sonata is a 6-Bolt 2.4L 4G63 (not kidding).

posted by  Bino

The cars were available with the option of a 1.8L SOHC N/A motor, or a 2.0L DOHC 4G63 N/A, or a 2.0L DOHC 4G63 Turbo. It depends on what you ordered.

posted by  Bino

well accually the '95-'99 eclipses/talons came stock with a 4g63 engine. it came in 4 different options: the 1.8 liter and 2.0 liter both nonturbo fwd...they also had the 2.0 liter turbo available in fwd or awd.

posted by  Tooyoung225

not quite correct...

the non-turbo 2g eclipse/talon was a 420a engine. and i've never heard of a 1.8L in '95-'99 eclipse/talon, just in 1994 and before.

posted by  pik_d

yeah they did stop making the 1.8 in 94. but it dont matter, it was a peice anyway

posted by  Tooyoung225

Stop talking for crying out loud. The TURBO '95-'99 Eclipse/Talons came with a 4G63 (our original poster owns a N/T '95-'99... which means it's a 420A)... please read the whole thread before you jump on here and reply some incorrect crap... thanks.

The 1.8L was not available after '94. The N/T cars (GS, RS, ESI) had a 420A motor, the Turbo cars (GST, GSX, TSI) had a 4G63. Now pipe down!

posted by  Bino

Nevermind.

posted by  Bino

Oy Vei :banghead: .While most of the knowledge is somewhat true, it is by no means conclusive.

Diamond Star Motors was not dissolved in 1993. Diamond Star Motors was officially renamed to Mitsubishi Motor Manufacturing of America, Inc. on July 1, 1995. Chrysler sold the plant in Normal, Illinois to Mitsubishi in 1991. Manufacturing of Chrysler vehicles was after that by contract only. On a further note, you can trace DSM roots all the way to the 1970's. However, the company was officially started in 1985.

When referring to an engine, it is correct and of proper mechanical language to refer to it by its full name. The 4G63 and 4G63T are two completly different motors, period.

The first generation DSM's were offered with a base 92HP(N/A) 1.8L motor, a 135HP(N/A) 4G63 motor, and a 195HP 4G63T(turbo) motor.

The second generation DSM's were offerd with a base 140HP(N/A) 2.0L 420A motor, a 141HP(N/A) 4G64 (Spyder) motor, and a 210HP 4G63T(turbo) motor.

There were no others, and if anyone tells you any different feel free to drop-kick them in their eye socket because they speak lies.

The main question at hand:
Can you swap a 4G63T motor in the chassis of a DSM that previously held the 420A or 4G64? Yes, with time, money, and effort anything can be done. The chassis and engine bay, in relation to size and design structure, are virtually identical. However new mounting points will need to be constructed in order for the new motor to bolt into a safe, secure position. I would suggest sourcing a turbo transmission. Provided you have the correct knowledge, skills, and tools the swap can be done for a little over the price of a full motor with harness and some other additional parts.

posted by  DSMer

Hahaha I thought you left DSMer. :mrgreen:

posted by  GreekWarrior

Who? Me?...., Here? Now what would give you that idea? This is simply a figment of your imagination.

posted by  DSMer

:laughing:

posted by  Pythias

That's John Shepherd's car, not DSMer's

posted by  Bino

I dont think the 420a to 4G63 swap has ever been done. Last I heard, the guy that got the closest gave up.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Well you haven't posted for a couple of months.

posted by  GreekWarrior

Wow, you really just need to stop typing. There have been many people who have completed a 420A to 4G63t swap, there have been several people to do the 420A to AWD 4G63t swap, a few people that have done an AWD swap into a convertible and at least two people that I've read about have put a 4G63t with AWD into a Honda Civic. There have been many more put the FWD 4G63t drivetrain into a Civic. There have been many people put the 4G63t into a Mirage, and a few who put the 4G63t with AWD into a Mirage. I still can't believe how much your comment was a "shot in the dark". If you don't know, just don't reply... Mmmm Kay :thumbs: .

posted by  Bino

You really need to stop typing and show some links to these "many" people who have done a successful 420a to 4g63t. From what I heard and seen, there has been many attempts at a 420a to 4g63t swap, but almost all have failed. Also, I would love to see a link to a 420a to AWD 4g63t, because not only is a 420a to 4g63t expensive, but attempting AWD will just bring that price up alot more. About the Civic, some people have done a 4g63t swap, but I have never seen or heard of an AWD 4g63t swap into a Civic. Now, AWD into a Spyder is easier and I believe has been done before. And what PontiacFan said is true, there was a guy that tried to do a 420a to 4g63t swap, got it in, but it had many problems and he gave up on it.
I'm not saying doing a 420a to 4g63t swap is impossible, but is very expensive, and alot of work. And everything you have said IS possible, but you have to remember, almost everything is possible with enough money.

posted by  nsupra27

but it is a helluva lot of work to swap a 420a to a 4g63t swap so imo just buy a turboed one right off hand. yeah the 4g63t swaps are common in mirages too :2cents:

posted by  mx3_monster

That has got to be the funniest this i have EVER heard in my life. seriously...were you smoking crack when you posted that?

posted by  Tooyoung225

No I wasn't. I'll continue to believe it to be true until someone proves me otherwise.

posted by  PontiacFan27

You are an utterly ignorant moron. Give me a minute to prove you wrong since you don't apparently believe anything unless you read it on the internet.

posted by  Bino

I don't see why he finds this swap is so unbelievable. Sure, it may not be cheap to do because of the amount of parts and probably fabrication required, but the only real problem that one sit's east/west while the other sits west/east. It may not be financially worthwhile, but so what. If you can squeeze BBC into a Yugo, this is well within reason.

posted by  vwhobo

420A -> 4G63t
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155439

AWD EG Civic
http://www.ef-honda.com/main/viewtopic.php?t=4532

4G63t + AWD Mirage
http://lilevo.com/

AWD Eclipse Spyder
http://www.prostreetonline.com/projectcars/awdspyder/

posted by  Bino

Yeah, of all the cracked out engine swaps that have been done, this one really isn't that mind boggling. Take that EVO powered EG Civic posted above for instance...

posted by  Bino

One of your links is dead and another requires a password. Sorry, I can't prove it.

posted by  vwhobo

ok, i ran across this online...it's an old ebay auction that has a 94 civic with a 4g63 engine swapped in....it's not a 420a, but if you can put it in a civic, you can put it anywhere.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-CIVIC-HATCH-4G63-SWAPPED-11-SECOND-STRE ET-MONSTER_W0QQitemZ4578851605QQcategoryZ6256QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and another note....when i took a trip to ohio for a dsm shootout, you wouldnt believe the cars there that had a 4g63 engine in it...i saw a dodge caravan with a 4g63 in it.

posted by  Tooyoung225

Just like what I said before, almost everything is possible with enough money. But 420a to 4g63 isn't that common due to it's very high price and alot of work.

posted by  nsupra27

Which one's dead (they all worked for me)? My bad on the membership required site.

posted by  Bino

Why is it that when we get to this point in the thread, any thread, PontiacFag always seems to disappear? :doh:

posted by  vwhobo

Right around breast-feeding time :laughing::joking:

posted by  chris_knows

I thought what he liked to suck on was about a foot or so lower. Twinkie sucking on the winkie. :wink2:

posted by  vwhobo

:orglaugh: :orglaugh: :orglaugh:

posted by  chris_knows

Has nothing to do with the work or the price of the swap (wich as I previously stated can be done for a little over the price of the full motor). Its simply easier to buy the turbocharged version.

posted by  DSMer

You normally have the ability to make some fairly lucid comments, but you blew it on this one. If your reasoning for not doing the swap has nothing to do with the work, then how can your reasoning for installing a turbo instead be supported by saying that it's easier? Isn't it easier because it's less work? Enquiring minds want to know.

posted by  vwhobo

No, I never said installing a turbo. I said buying the turbocharged version(I probably should have said model, as it its commonly used when referring to cars. Sorry). You can simply buy the GS-T or GSX models of Eclipse and save yourself time and money.

However, I'm in no way saying the 420a/4G63T swap is difficult and or expensive.

posted by  DSMer

Must be easy and cheap then. Hell, theyre done everyday! In fact, theyre so easy I did 2 last night alone!

posted by  PontiacFan27

Interesting compensation for being wrong... way to take it like a man.

posted by  Bino

I may have been wrong, but he is being a dumbass. If it was so easy and cheap there would be alot more of them done.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Yeah, he did exaggerate a bit. But, the cost difference between a turbo DSM and a non turbo isn't actually that much. I've seen N/A's with a higher asking price than a comparable turbo.

posted by  Bino

esspecially talons, i love when ppl sell there cars and have no idea what it could rele be worth

i.e. sum1 selling a TSi AWD Talon w/ 100k mile and then the next guy selling a GSX Eclipse with 150k miles for double the price

posted by  ride3k

Sell your current car, and patiently wait for a turbo. It will come around and you'll be happier :thumbs:

posted by  nightroad

Most motor swaps are niether easy nor cheap. However, it makes less sense to do the swap when you can simply buy a turbocharged model.

Your logic of "if it was cheaper and easier and it would be done more often" just does not fit the standard. It would be easier and cheaper for me to create a custom turbo-kit on my CRX, yet so many more people buy pre-fabricated kits.

Keep in mind that easy is a matter of opinion. What you take to be hard could be a walk in the park with a piece of cake for me.

posted by  DSMer

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