94 vr4 vs. 99 gsx

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im going to buy a new car.. and im lookin for alot of speed, and nice looks as well.. and im a real big fan of awd turbo's so ive narrowed it down.. its between a 1994 3kgt vr4 and a 1999 eclipse gsx.. plz help me decide.. cuz ive been going back and forth for awile now.. thanks!

posted by  Guns_10

depends on what you want with the car, more than just speed. If you want to have a car that looks amazing, but isnt the best of the two performing, get the 3kgt, but if you want an all out modding fest and pure performance out of a 4 banger, the gsx is your lover

a quick search turns up niether car for me in the sd area at the moment, but if i recall the gsx is around 5 grand and the vr4 you can find for 6 grand or so, depending on were u live and whose selling/buying em

posted by  ride3k

Umm, the 3KGT VR4 is almost a second faster in the quarter than a GSX.

posted by  PontiacFan27

stock, ya, but it is a twin turbo'd v6. With the GSX you can mod it to hell for under 5 grand and get a better quarter

posted by  ride3k

You can mod a 3KGT too....

posted by  PontiacFan27

yes, you can, but find as many upgrades for the VR4 as for the GSX, and you sir shall earn a cookie

the abundance of parts for all the 2g DSM eclipse/talon cars is astoudning, and the huge amount means you can find more parts for more power with less money

posted by  ride3k

You can find the same parts for both cars, but less companies will make the exact same product for the 3kgt than the DSM.

posted by  PontiacFan27

I really am not found of the VR4 because it's just plain heavy and doesnt handle well. I would get a the GSX then do a 6 bolt swap immediately.

posted by  thunderbird1100

hmm, that dosent have anything to do with the fact that they use diff engines...

face it, the GSX has a much muhc muhc much much better aftermarket backing than the VR4, but you only ever want a 3kgt for it pure awsome good looks =P and not shit, but not race, handeling with decent out of the box punch

posted by  ride3k

so basically ive gotton most replys that the gsx is the better pick.. basically because there is a better after market.. but the vr4 has a decent after market as well.. and the eclipse is only about 400 lbs lighter.. thats quite a bit, but the vr4 is awd and it will make up for the weight.. in stock form the 3kgt is also about 25mph faster and a full second quicker in the 0-60.. and im alot about the speed.. im looking for a car that i can mod to beat my brothers firebird ws6 wich hits 175 stock.

posted by  Guns_10

AWD in the 3kGT does NOT make up for the weight difference :screwy:

posted by  Pythias

No shit they use different engines. But you can get the same parts for a 3kgt as you can a GSX. People make heads for GSXs, guess what their are heads for 3000GTs too. Turbo kits? Check. Intakes? Check. It goes on.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Top speed shouldn't matter. 1/4 mile and handling is what should matter most.

First off, the GSX is also AWD, so AWD isnt what "makes up the weight difference" from the GSX and 3000GT VR4.

Second, the GSX does handle better in stock form than the much heavier 3000GT VR4, it's even more than 400lbs in weight, more like 500lbs heavier. The GSX is just a much more nimble smaller vehicle. It wouldnt suprise me if a GSX beat a 3000GT VR4 around an auto-x course, even with the power disadvantage.

Third, a WS6 doesnt top out at 175mph stock...They have speed limiters to 161mph tops stock. If you have a chip that removes the limiter you wont go above 165mph because that's when you you must shift into 6th and it doesnt have the power to go much higher unless you have 10 miles of straight road.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Thats what I thought about the GSX but wasn't positive.

posted by  Pythias

handling dosent matter much to me.. i dont race anything besides drag.. on a straight shot 13 mile road behind my house.. and my brothers car hits 174 half way through 6th, stock form, clocked by 4 radar guns.
and i ment that the vr4's awd feature makes up for the weight on the launch.. even with all the weight, im pos itl beat my bros car off the launch.
and i like the gsx more, in all departments except speed, i would lean twards that if i could make it go faster, without and engine swap.. and so far im pretty sure i cant do that without breaking the bank.
in wich the 3kgt looks good, and is much faster for the same price.

posted by  Guns_10

ok, find me 30+ turbo kit options for the VR4 all producing different power? oh, cant do that can you? hmm, maybe it has something to do with the fact that it has almost no aftermarket support compared to the 2g DSM. Of course it has SOME, like minimal turbo upgrades, but they dont have Stage 1 turbo kits for anything BUT the VR4, and that is just a bone stock replacement system.

The 2g DSm's have a full set of stage upgrades, and the n/z versions are easy to slap turbo's onto, with little modding done. Your not getting the point that the competition for DSM aftermarket is so much higher, it drives prices down, making it cheaper to up a DSM than it is to do the VR4's

posted by  ride3k

get a GSX and do a few upgrades and you can get a faster car than the VR4

posted by  ride3k

You know AWD is the worst way to get power to the ground for top end. IF you're looking for what I think you're looking for maybe you should be looking into a FWD or RWD car. Sure the AWD cars will really launch quick, but they lag on the top end.

And I still dont know how he went 174...The speed limiter is set between 158-161mph on the late F-Bodies. Even if you by-pass it the car itself doesnt have the juice to get up and over 165mph.

posted by  thunderbird1100

I have heard that after 150mph speedos are usually off.

posted by  Pythias

yes the speedo was off, it said close to 200, that is why we set the radars. but my dad is a machanic and i know he put some kind of chip in the car to remove the limiter basicaly. if i looked for a fwd car, is there a turbo aplication i can throw onto a 3kgt sl? or if i went with the gsx what kind of money would i have to spend to make it as fast as the vr4 or let alone the ws6?

posted by  Guns_10

I've seen speedos off by 5mph by 85-100mph.

posted by  thunderbird1100

The SL is a bad idea, a completely non performance oriented vehicle, maybe looking into a GST if you are okay with FWD, if not, get a Z/28.

posted by  thunderbird1100

ide rather not get a fwd tho, thats why i am looking into the awd cars. basically for 4 grand, how fast can i make the eclipse.. and for 4 grand how fast can i make the vr4. without using nos ( pops isnt into it )

posted by  Guns_10

Was that in an F-body because if it was thats bullshit. In an F-body You dont do top speed runs in 6th you do them in 5th.

posted by  Enthusiast

i dont know what kind of body it is.. its a 1998 pontiac firebird trans am ws6. and i know it was in 6th, or so says my brother who was driving..
but that isnt the subject.. can ya help with some info of the other 2 cars?

posted by  Guns_10

If you're going about 150-155 in a F-body and shift into 6th the revs go so low that you're out of power to go any faster.

posted by  thunderbird1100

http://www.3sxperformance.com/

posted by  Metzger

You can use any turbo on any car, and its usually cheaper to have pipes custom bent anyhow. So I dont see you're point about turbo kits.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Thats what I was saying.

posted by  Enthusiast

So you basically just reworded what he said. 6th gear in F-bodys is for fuel economy, not power.

posted by  PontiacFan27

I elaborated with more detail, saw it happen...

6th gear is great for fuel economy though!

posted by  thunderbird1100

Yah 70 comes at like 1500 rpms. Somewhere around there but Its been a while since ive driven one.

posted by  Enthusiast

do you guys realize that this thread isnt about my brothers cars 6th gear, or the aftermarket support of any car?

posted by  Guns_10

I didn't know we weren't allowed to get off topic...:orglaugh:

posted by  thunderbird1100

Sorry Back on topic. I would get the GSX if modding and the VR4 if no plans to. I'm sorry I jus like to call people on their bullshit.:thumbs:

posted by  Enthusiast

Actually, you're not allowed to go off topic.....I just tend not to be that hard on you guys because the post whore fan club would be screwed lol.....

posted by  Cliffy

Considering 95% of theads get off topic, I can see how you can be pretty lax with that rule.

posted by  thunderbird1100

You had to mention post-whoring :laughing:

posted by  chris_knows

You do realize that if noone went of topic this would be one hell of a boring forum.

posted by  Enthusiast

i do plan to mod.. but not heavily.. i just want whatever car will be faster with 4 grand in mods.

posted by  Guns_10

gsx, easily to get alot more power out of the VR4 you need more than 4 grand

posted by  ride3k

I cant wait to see what having a 6th gear and DoD does for the 5th gen F-body(s)!

posted by  PontiacFan27

DoD??

posted by  TurboLag

I'm guessing Double Overdrive...

posted by  chris_knows

Wrong, displacement on demand. When you are driving normally only 4 cylinders are used.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Oh...I found double overdrive on google lol...Can someone explain the whole Displacement on Demand thing?...How do they get only 4 cylinders to fire, wouldn't it need another crankshaft?

posted by  chris_knows

You'll get way more out of the 4G63 than you will out of the 6G72 (look it up). On top of that, your transaxle in the DSM will not grenade whereas the transaxle in the VR4 will (good buddy of mine road raced a VR4 for several years... got to where he could do a tranny swap in his sleep). But your overall reasoning for doing this whole deal is... well... retarded :thumbs: .

posted by  Bino

I'm sorry if we're off on a tangent, I just want to answer the question.

Personally, the VR4 seems to be like the best bet. While both cars are AWD turbo, the VR4 has 320 horsepower (compared to 210) and a 6 speed manual trans (compared to the 5 speed manual). In addition it has a ton extra torque (315-214). On top of that, their weight is quite close. However, I don't see you picking it up with decent mileage for under 8 grand.

EDIT: I just re-checked my source and the curb weight says that the GSX weighs more by 73 pounds (3270-3197). How the hell can this be possible?

posted by  Nissan_Altima

b/c you got a bad weight for the proky VR4, and if you find any car with god miles from 10+ yrs ago for under 8grand, any worth while cars, that would be great, for an old car, you have to expect 100k at the very least.

oh ya, the VR4 weighs in around 3700 - 3800, dont no exact, but i the SL model weighs about 3200 - 3400 so thats probably what your looking at

posted by  ride3k

I've seen a lot of 1g VR4 guys swap out the 28 spline axles for the later 2g 31 spline axles. Seen a few break the 28's too.

posted by  thunderbird1100

The engine spins on the power of only four cylinders. The other 4 pistons still go through the motions, they just dont get fuel or spark.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Oh, how much does it help effieciency...like 10-15% better?

posted by  chris_knows

Tis about it,

i dont think its a crazy idea myself, but it must help some
:2cents:

posted by  nighthawk

More like 5% real-world.

posted by  thunderbird1100

It burns 50% less gas that way, I'm sure it helps more than 5%.

posted by  PontiacFan27

You got bad weights...

Eclipse

99 RS = 2754lbs
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/mitsubishi/eclipse/11420/specs.html

99 GS = 2855lbs
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/mitsubishi/eclipse/11422/specs.html

99 GST = 2970lbs
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/mitsubishi/eclipse/13506/specs.html

99 GSX = 3270lbs
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/mitsubishi/eclipse/13326/specs.html


3000GT

94 Base = 3197lbs
94 SL Coupe = 3351lbs
94 VR4 Coupe = 3803lbs
94 SL Convert. = 3719lbs
94 VR4 Convert. = 3995lbs

http://www.geocities.com/silver3kgt/gthist.html

That Spyder is HEAVY!!!

posted by  thunderbird1100

You'd be suprised, real world results are showing usually between 4%-7% better gas mileage.

It's nothing great.

In fact...



http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/11/gm_expands_depl.html

So according to what GM directly said... "UP" to 5% for trucks and "UP" top 12% for cars...so basically half those and you get real world. To my knowledge Dodge/Chrysler's DoD system isnt much different if any at all.

posted by  thunderbird1100

woot, got it close, and tbird, what do expect for brand new technology?

any idea how much the hard top convert adds today?

posted by  ride3k

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