Twin turbo evo

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This will probably sound like a noob question but im trying to learn. Can you put a twin turbo kit on an Evo VIII to reduce the turbo lag?

posted by  Metallica3491

Why would ya wanna do that, that would only make it worse, especially on an inline 4.

posted by  dsmracersv98

I think he's just giving a hypothetical situation, and it can be done, but I don't think the lag is really that much to install a second turbo, and yeah it would ruin the engine pretty fast lol.

posted by  chris_knows

I know that the Veyron has 4 small turbos that produce almost no lag, and give direct and almost instant throttle...it all depends on how big the Turbo is

posted by  newyorker

Also the engine size, and 16 cylinders and 4 turbos is the same as 4 cyl per turbo...right? lol

posted by  chris_knows

I thought on a twin turbo kit, one turbo runs at low RPMs and the other kicks in on the higher RPMs.

posted by  Metallica3491

Sometimes that's what they'll do, other times there's two same sized turbos that provide constant boost...

posted by  chris_knows

Well could you get a kit that runs one turbo at low RPMs and have another kick in at high RPMs to lesson the turbo lag without destroying the engine? O is the inline-4 too small?

posted by  Metallica3491

thats just not right:banghead:

posted by  nighthawk

by the way the evo doesnt do 0-60 in 3.5

posted by  newyorker

Who said it was stock? :laughing:

posted by  chris_knows

its says 280 hp lol:laughing:

posted by  nighthawk

Look it up. The EvoVIII MR FQ400 does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. The evo VI does it in 4.5ish. And sorry it has 405bhp. I got it mixed up with the VI.

posted by  Metallica3491

So...carbon fibre body, stiffer suspension, new tires...it can be done :laughing:

posted by  chris_knows

yeah I thought of the fq400 too(saw a good topgear vid with it)

but when i saw 285 or whatever hp
i was like, hmmm:screwy:

posted by  nighthawk

Is that better? Sorry i got the torque and the hp mixed with the VI. Do some research before you shoot ur mouth off.

posted by  Metallica3491

:doh: :doh: :doh:

posted by  nighthawk

Is that better? Sorry i got the hp and torque mixed up with the VI. Anyway look it up before you go shooting your mouth off.

posted by  Metallica3491

I didnt mean u nighthawk.

posted by  Metallica3491

thats nuttinn

posted by  nighthawk

Yea i saw that too. I would love to buy that car but it 85,000. Not many cars out there under $100,000 if any that i know of can beat a lamborghini. Anyway back to the topic.. Is it possible to put a twin turbo, one at low RPMs one at high to reduce turbo lag?

posted by  Metallica3491

that setup was in the 3rd gen RX-7's i believe.

and I wouldnt say its all that hard:2cents:

posted by  nighthawk

Three words


Variable geometry turbo.

posted by  OombaIsBack

A freind of mine has a Subaru Legacy Twin Turbo, I believe his Turbo's cut in at different stages. One's a smaller turbo, that cuts in at lower rpm's I presume, to produce better low down torque, and the other, larger turbo cuts in at higher rpm's, where the torque is less essential!

posted by  Cliffy

Thats called a sequential turbo setup. The larger turbo kicks in to provide more power in the high end, and the smaller turbo is used in the low end to get rid of lag. However, there is never a time when torque isnt essential. You need torque to make horsepower.

posted by  OombaIsBack

So its possible then?

posted by  Metallica3491

I meant when the torque is less noticeable lol.....might be wrong though, as I've never driven his car, just riden in it! I know they're called Sequetial turbo's.....just failed to say it lol

posted by  Cliffy

In the Automotive field, ANYTHING, and I truly mean anything, is possible.

posted by  Godlaus

What he said. It's possible if done right.

posted by  MetalManiac

Meh, you can dibble dabble arround that subject for hours. While I would agree that torque is essential, torque doesn't really "make" horsepower. Torque and RPM are measured quantities of an engine output. Horsepower is more or less of a calculated number.



Can you put a twin turbo setup on an Evo? Most definetly. While I've never seen it done to a particular Evo. I have, however, seen them on SR20 engines.

http://www.gti-r.com/misc4/SR20DETT.jpg

Will it reduce the turbo lag? Theoretically speaking you could engineer the turbo setup to achieve boost quicker, but the added complexity of 2 turbos running off 2 cylinders from a small I-4 engine would be a headache and an ass pain. Not to mention the cramped space and the ammount of heat transfer you're going to get. I've seen some argue that it has some advantage, but I would beg to differ simply for the fact that a single turbo with a well built setup could be just as efficient if not more than a twin turbo setup.

If you don't beleive me you can always ask some of the drag racers that convert their Twin Turbo Supras to single turbo. Surley I'd take the advice of a person who engineered a car that can consistently run 10-9 second passes over he say. But thats just me.. :smoke:

posted by  DSMer

Couldn't he just put an intercooler or cold air intake and reduce the heat.

posted by  MetalManiac

Stop trying to sound smart. Oomba was right: You need torque to make horsepower. It's 50% of the "equation".


Added complexity? Once it's installed, it's installed. You don't have to re-install the twin turbos everyday. I don't see why it should be a headache or an ass-pain. 2 turbos running off 2 cylinders? That's way over my head.


I'm sure that drag racers don't convert their Supras to single turbos in an effort to reduce turbo lag, like the author of this thread asked.

"Well built setup"? Those are poser quotes. It lacks detail and attempts to disguise dummies with its generality.

Stop guessing.

Supras that are converted to single turbo for drag duty are doing so because the single turbo is much larger and can create more power than the twins already on that bitch. Twin turbos are more versatile than a single turbo. I shouldn't have to explain this. DSMer, you suck.

Next time, think, type, slap yourself.

posted by  What?

I just wrote a research paper on Turbochargers... here's a section from my "Turbo Lag" section:

I took out all the endnotes. I used several sources on this, so it isnt all my stuff.

posted by  StiMan

*Sigh* epochs of time to learn and you still can't fathom a simple equation. To be technically correct, and not to boast my boat here because I only live to "sound smart". It would be 33% of the equation. The three parts you should be referring to: Torque, RPM, and Horspower are part of a three part eqaution. If you take one away you have 2/3rds left. Not 1/2. But surely you allready knew that. Horsepower is an esoteric measurement. You need torque to "calculate" horsepower, not "make" it. But you're soo smart I'm sure you allready knew that? Right?

Just as a spoon can't taste soup, a learned fool can't taste knowledge. No matter how many times he gets dipped. I suppose you'd probably never know the real complexity of engineering a turbo setup. Its alot more than just slapping a turbo on an ehxuast and calling it a day. It involves a few slightly complicated equations, reading some compressor maps, choke curves for turbine housings, etcc... I'd rather not bore you with the details because I'm sure you know all of this. I'm sure you also knew that engineering a 4cylinder exhaust manifold to give an even flow of exhaust pulse to 2 seperate turbos would be alot more complex than just doing it to one. Not that the size of the exhaust manifold or its general structure matters to anything, but please don't let me bore you with my meager knowledge you seem to know it all...:laughing:



No they don't. But god forbid they ever want to create a 6 cylinder engine with a very large turbo and still somehow manage to reduce the lag to where it will be safe enough to get them down the track. Because you can't learn anything about turbo lag from racers who use incredibly large turbos. Because all they care about is power. Saftey is NEVER an issue.



Oh I'm so sorry for not elaborating to someone who won't understand. Please, Allow me.



Yes you can Metallica. And you can surley surley reduce turbo lag. In order to reduce tubolag, you have to increase the speed and responsiveness of a said turbo. Within a safe area, but I'll elaborate a little later. The most important factor would be the velocity and the ange at wich the exhaust gas flow hits the turbine wheel blades. The way to change this is by altering the turbine housing. The measurement of the turbine housing is commonly referred to as the A/R ratio.

You would want the turbos arranged in a bi-turbo setup. Which means that one turbo would be slightly larger than the other. The larger turbo would have a higher A/R ratio wich would give that turbo the ability to produce better top end power. The smaller turbo would use the lower A/R ratio wich would allow the turbine to spin faster in order to produce boost more quickly and dissolve some of the dangerous turbo lag.

Using compressor maps(flow charts of a turbo, sort of like a turbo dyno) you would then choose the turbo with the best compressor map that would match well with the needs of your engine.(I'd rather not explain the math involved it takes time I don't have) When choosing a turbo its important that you keep in mind the surge limit of the turbo so you don't reduce the performance of your turbo or possibly damage it. Theres a little more to it than this, but those are some basics.

Now What would have you beleive that a twinturbo setup is somehow the best thing in the world. When in fact its only versatile when you have the right engine to work with, such as a V orientated engine or a larger displacement inline. On something as small as a 2.0L Inline 4, the advantages of a twin turbo don't outweight the disadvantages as much and you would be far better off with a competently matched single turbo than 2 smaller turbos to reduce the boost lag.

posted by  DSMer

I'm all with DSMer here. It is possible to do a twin turbo set up on the 4G64 engine. However, you also have to think about how hard its going to be to tune the engine. Not only would you have to have have the engine completely rebuilt to be able to handle the mass amount of strain you will be putting on the engine from two turbo's, you would also have to make sure the nothing else like timing or cooling is affected. this is where most tuners run into problems. When you are putting this much strain on the engine something probably and will break.

So next time you think about modding an engine to that extreme, and you havn't thought about the tuning aspect of it, you should slap yourself.

posted by  MevolutionR

Also, whether you know this or not, PART AND BRAND SELECTION IS IMPORTANT. So you would have to have a well built engine to do this.

posted by  MevolutionR

Let's see, 0 torque means 0 horsepower. You need it to make it.

posted by  PontiacFan27

:pop:

posted by  mazda6man

oh, PS... THIS THREAD IS A YEAR OLD!!!

posted by  mazda6man

yes it can be done...
would i do it... no
lol i have seen numerious people attempt twin turbos on there cars spliting pistons or dual stages. If you want to know some of the best things 2 do contact JUN auto performance just look it up on line. There a japans company there one of the biggest and do insane things. For example if you get super street the last issu apeared with there AWD 350z pushing 838hp and 694 lb-ft. Those are exactly form the magazine. They did the V10 supra and a 1000hp 300sz. They also tid a time trial Evo so see what they did its probally you best bet since they won time trial runs with it means they did something right. I have helped worked on a twin turbo integra and the thing is quick but twin turboing a 4 banger is way to much headachs... talk about going through forged blocks like no 2marrow. I have an SR20 and i put out 400whp and my turbo is a GT2871R .64 trim (i ran a 11.6 1/4mile). It spools up fast and it more then unuf to brake lose in that car. I would like to call my car and evo eater cause they always think they can beat me thats why i perticularly responed to this post... lol :). Smaller turbo less lag im sure you know that. I have seen many diffrent turbos set up in evos. Your best bet in this situation is go to an evo fourm theres a good amount of them and post it up on there and ask what turbo is everone using... size brand ect and see whats worked best. Be carsfull how you post it or they will laugh at you cause when i first read this first coment on the post i almost thought this was a stupid post. Basic idiot question but we all do it so no worrys.

posted by  tony-wwsmag

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