Death to the Honda S2000. Welcome class dominator.

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Well, Honda officially announced that the current gen S2000 will be retiring at the end of this year. But they did comment what the replacement would be like. The Honda XGA is the replacement. We are looking at a 2 + 2 hardtop based on the S2000 platform. With a 3.0 L V6 putting out 320hp, also equipped with SH-AWD all connected with Honda's class leading 6 speed transmission or a clutchless 5 speed. All of this comes at a tidy price of 43,000 dollars. No doubt this is aimed squarely at the 350z, and i have confidence that it's going to completely dominate it. The S2000 is a better platform, but always lagged in power, this V6 should remedy it. But this addition in equipment may mess with the S2000 platform's handling abilities. I guess we'll have to see, when it comes out.

posted by  aerith

It sucks that they're taking out the S2000 :ohcrap:...But at least they're bringing in another sports car...It just won't be the same though.

Can't wait to see pics of the XGA though :hi:

posted by  chris_knows

Kind of sad, but at least there will be fewer "torqueless wonder" remarks. :ohcrap:

posted by  hondaman

I doubt the XGA will have great torque either. It is a 3.0L after all, they're probaly just going to do the same thing they did with the S2000, tune it to rev sky high for power. I have no clue how they are going to get 320hp from a 3.0L and still manage to price it at 43k along with all the other goodies. But its probaly going to be a great motor either way.

posted by  aerith

The S2000 is a sexy screamer. I can only imagine what a 3.0 would sound like at about 8000 rpms. :hi:

posted by  hondaman

They are building the XGA at the same Suzuka plant, so we will see similiar technologies being used on the XGA's powerplant. But i will miss the handling ability of the original S2000.

I'm scared that Honda will walk the road of Nissan and abandon their pursuit for handling, for cheap power. Everyday there are rumors going around that the next NSX will be aimed at the Aston Martins instead of the the Ferrari's, and Porsches. I much rather have a great handling NSX then a power whore. This new XGA is evidence that Honda is rearranging their priorities, and putting power first.

posted by  aerith

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/fastguy18/d123fc15.jpg

found a pic of it:thumbs: it kind of reminds me of an rx-8:screwy: :2cents:

posted by  mx3_monster

Oh dear.....If Honda is planning on replacing the S2000 with that, they might have a few sales problems lol. Just my opinion, but why discontinue a winning formular? A bigger, heavier replacement will just not be the same.....Sounds to me like this car's more of an NSX replacement. If so, there's actually gonna be a hole in the line-up for an S2000!

posted by  Cliffy

Are we talking US dollars? Because if you are amazed that they can sell a 320HP V6 coupe for under $43,000 then you may have not heard of something called the baseline 2006 Chevy Corvette. Roughly priced at about $44,000, comes with 400HP, big 6.0L V8 Engine, bowties? Ring a bell?

If honda thinks they can get away with that monsterous price of nearly $45,000 for an AWD coupe with a V6 engine, then someone at their engineering facility needs a serious dose of reality. Competition to the 350Z? I think not. I'd rather keep my extra $15,000 and be satisfied with a lightly packaged Z. Either someone has their facts wrong or the people at honda have lost their minds. :screwy:

IF $43,000 is the fully loaded price, then we might have something to work with. However I find it incredibly hard to beleive that Honda expects their consumers to pay $10,000 more for a slightly more powerful car thats "supposed" to be replacing the S2000. I find it even more rediculous that Honda expects anyone to pay more than $35,000 for any fully loaded honda for that matter.

$43,000, yeah right. Since when did Honda become BMW and get the respect to charge over $40,000 for a 300+ HP coupe?

posted by  DSMer

Not sure if it's an NSX replacement, I remember reading somewhere (Road & Track?) that they were bringing back the NSX :drool:

posted by  chris_knows

It's too bad they're killing the S2000 and replacing it with that...thing...:banghead:

posted by  jedimario

I thought the NSX was gonna be axed. I heard that the current model is the last one to be made. It's a shame really, because in my opinion, the NSX is what ya always think of a supercar looking like (that kinda shape.....as a kid you might have viewed all supercars as 'that' shape).

While I agree that $40,000 is alot of money, converting that into GBP would be around £35,000 unless I'm mistaken? which is about what you'd expect to pay for an equivelent BMW or Merc. Maybe Honda's going up in the world? However, they'd need to do something with that design in order to maybe, just, warrent that price!

posted by  Cliffy

Remember, this is all just concept stuff. While I haven't heard a thing on a S2000 replacement, I do know it's getting axed.

posted by  thunderbird1100

The S2000 hasn't been selling very well the past couple years. People would rather buy more "boring" convertibles in comparison to the S2000 than get a really engaging driving experience. The 04-06 S2000 is really actually a fairly quaint vehicle compared to the 9000rpm 00-03 screamer, but I believe the mantra stuck to the S2000 that it is a "weekend car" and not fun to drive around town often.

They will eventually probably come out with a slightly worse handling, much more powerful (probably HO V6) and heavier convertible later on to increase sales because it would increase appeal. Sad, but true.

Who knows though, maybe they will come out with a SH-AWD convertible weighing 3000-3100lbs and power it with the new 2.3 Turbo. I cant wait to drive the RDX when it comes out with SH-AWD and the 240hp/260tq 2.3T motor. It will be the first factory turbo Honda I have ever driven.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Not bad really. Kind of big though.

posted by  hondaman

Nope, they're bringing her back in 2009 :drool:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=109733#14

500hp V10 :hi:

posted by  chris_knows

Your back? I always remember seeing you very active when I read through alllll the old posts on the forum, (yes for awhile I had a ton of time on my hands) and I believe you also did a comparison on the different kinds of intakes, cai, and warm air intake and such. I haven't seen you post in awhile.

posted by  Pythias

That is ugly as hell. So theyre replacing the plain looking S2000 with that tacky thing?

posted by  OombaIsBack

How exactly is this...

http://www.honda.co.jp/S2000/type/image/s2000-ext.jpg

http://www.chichi.me.uk/wp-content/s2000.jpg

Plain looking? It's no more "plain looking" than a Miata, Boxster or Solstice.

posted by  thunderbird1100

That concept is ugly as sin :2cents: !!!

posted by  elchango36

Its a little bit more plain than a Miata. Boxster and Solstice look so much more interesting than the S2000. The S2k and Miata are extremely boring designs imo.

posted by  OombaIsBack

Wow, you think the S2K is as plain looking as the Miata and more boring the the Boxster? No wonder you think your car is purple and not pink:doh:.

posted by  elchango36

What exactly is "plain" about it?

I guess the interior is "boring" too?

http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200311/t0m_1068846539_s2000_interieur.jpg

To me I think the Miata and S2000 are way more exciting designs than the Solstice. Solstice is pretty bland IMO. The Sky is a work of art though.

posted by  thunderbird1100

The interior is fine. I just think the outside is too boring. The Solstice is so much better, it actually has shape to it, and it looks even better in person.

posted by  OombaIsBack

I've now seen a Solstice and Sky in person and have to say the Solstice is nothing new or different, pretty bland. The Sky is amazing though.

posted by  thunderbird1100

DUDE!!!

You are still alive!!!!!

Where have ya been man?

posted by  Zalight

I prefer the Solstice over the Sky. Its far from bland, its so curvy and everything flows together flawlessly. The Sky is nice, but its not inspiring at all.

posted by  OombaIsBack

The front on the Solstice is plain ugly IMO.

http://www.engine-power.com/img/specs/pontiac_solstice_05.jpg

To me the car isn't anything really new or great looking. Just very bland all around.

The Sky on the other hand...
http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/los_angeles_2005/0501_saturn_sky_front_ 445.jpg

looks AMAZING!

We just have different tastes apparently. I dont like the MX6/Probe, you will probably never buy a Honda. Enough said:thumbs:

posted by  thunderbird1100

That's because it takes it's styling cues from this
http://www.km77.com/marcas/vauxhall/prototipos/VXlightning/med/01.jpg

AND this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/2007gtprphoto.jpg

Both the Solstice and the Sky are built on the same platform, but where the Sky borrowed some things from European sports cars(although GM owns Opel), the Pontiac division of GM was creative with the styling of the Solstice.

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Well I think the Solstice, as unique looking as though it may be, remains ugly (although everyone agree's the Pontiac Aztek takes 1st place in the Fugly category).:2cents:

posted by  elchango36

The Z starts at $26,000 I think. I don't know if it's possible to option it out to $43,000. Doesn't seem like a target to me.

They'll probably Acura this bitch out to explain the 10-12 g's you're over paying for it. They better hope to God Infiniti raises the price on the G35. The Coupe update looks promising.

posted by  What?

Bah 3.0l v6, and it look like crap.......


Honda should keep the same design and make a 2.2l 4 banger that rev's to 11,000rpm! :hi:

Bo yeah. :mrgreen:

posted by  GreekWarrior

But Honda are putting the engine in the front......:banghead:

posted by  GreekWarrior

OT, I think the Solstice looks great. Vastly better than the average TVR. The Sky is modern angular, but the Solstice is classic rounded sports car. While not retro, it reminds me of the way classic sports cars had rounded forms, like the Birdcage Maserati, Cobra, Arnolt Bristol, Vignale Ferraris, etc. I like designs that are uncluttered and not busy.

http://www.germancarfans.com/photos/3050503.001/1027.jpg

Some might call it boring. I call it sublime.

http://digilander.libero.it/Logiko2031/1951%20Ferrari%20212%20Export%20Vign ale%20Spyder.jpg

The Solstice isn't anywhere near as beautiful as that 212 Export, but it reminds me of that era of sports cars.

posted by  ChrisV

So that's why I dont like the Solstice style...GM engineers tried to create it, that explains everything.:laughing:

posted by  thunderbird1100

I dont think this concept is going to "replace" the S2000. The S2000 is simply getting axed and a new car is being added to the lineup.

BTW - Highest I could option a 350Z was...

350Z Roadster Grand Touring base - $40,885

With all options/accessories on their webpage - $46,275

With all the NISMO accessories on top of that - $51,705

Apparently you can option the SH*T out of a 350Z.

Base price on the entire model lineup was - $27,650

posted by  thunderbird1100

probably not as good as a small block chevy revvin 9gs

but that s2000 replacement shit is whack

posted by  TurboLag

Yeah with a whole bunch of crap you don't need.

Hello, Baseline Corvette is $44,000. You have to be kidding me if any Honda can cost that much. It had better drive itself for that asking price.

posted by  DSMer

The New S2000 looks amazing if that is infact what is comming out.

posted by  Pythias

Since when is Pontiac styling its own cars a good thing?

posted by  jedimario

Nobody knows anything if...

A. This car is actually coming out anytime soon.

or

B. How much this car will cost.



You never know...We already have radar cruise control, maybe side to side proximity sensors are next you it can turn the wheel?

posted by  thunderbird1100

When did I say it was a good thing??? I said they were creative and I applaud their effort for trying to be unique. The Saturn division just copy and pasted certain things from the Vauxhaul and Opel sports cars.

posted by  elchango36

I just assumed you were saying it in a certain tone that put a positive light on the fact that Pontiac made up their own thing. Kinda sounded like that was the case, but now it sounds like it's not lol. So, out of curiosity, what is the case?

posted by  jedimario

s2k is my favorite car...i really dont like this new thing and disagree that its plain I think it looks perfect:mrgreen:

posted by  ToshoRcing

Like previously stated, I applaud their effort for trying to be creative, but they failed in making a car I would buy. (I guess the answer is, had the outcome been different, it would have been a good thing. But you know the outcome and therefore...)

posted by  elchango36

I couldn't tell by your sig :laughing: :laughing:

posted by  OombaIsBack

You don't like this?:
http://e1.news1.yimg.com/e1.yimg.com/ne/050716/motortrend/normal_e12_0505_e spiado_1_2.jpg

http://cars.blogs.ca/wp-content/2008PontiacGTO.jpg


I kinda disagree with the front end of that last one, but I don't think Pontiac styling its own cars is bad

posted by  TurboLag

lol yeah...but I think Im too tall for it so it kinda sucks...:ohcrap:

posted by  ToshoRcing

It's certainly an improvement, but it's nothing I'd call good looking. BTW, I'm just remembering the second pic, I think I've seen it before, cause it's not working for me. EDIT-it works now, I remembered right

And, well, I'll just remind you what it's improving from, if you can bear it...
http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.trucks.worst.residual.value/0 5.pontiac.aztek.500.jpg
http://www.tomstrongman.com/RoadTests/PontiacVibe/Images/RightFront.jpg
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/400x266/2005-Pontiac-Grand- Am-05129171990001.JPG

posted by  jedimario

That one doesn't count, not only is it the Matrix underneath the Pontiac badges, it even closely resembles it.

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/drivers.under.25/05.toyota.matri x.500.jpg

posted by  elchango36

IMO the Grand Am doesn't look half bad, if they made the "ram air" smaller then it would be more appealing but I like it :2cents:

posted by  99integra

Uhh, it looks to me that every body panel has been changed somewhat, so yes it does count, whether partially or not, it's a Pontiac design. Unless of course another company designed it.

posted by  jedimario

Are you kidding, that thing is hideous. Those hood scoops look like those cheap crappy looking aftermarket ones people put on their stock Civic coupes.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Nah, they don't, they're too big :screwy: :laughing:

posted by  jedimario

You have to factor a lot of things in here, the AWD system featured here is nothing short of class leading. And Honda's can command that price, the NSX is called the HONDA NSX in the rest of the world. And the RL is called the HONDA legend in the rest of the world. Narrow minded ass, where does chevrolet get off charging 44,000 for a car? It's a chevrolet, it shares its name with the pieces of crap cavaliers of yore, and the inferior cobalt of today. Just because its a Honda doesn't mean that they are cheap econoboxes. If you check around more carefully; Honda is MORE involved in performance racing (F1, CART, GT, etc) then Corvette, so saying the Honda name is not befitting a high performance car is just narrow minded shit.

You're a Mitsu owner, where the hell does Mitsubishi get off charging over 30K for a Evo? It's mitsubishi, they have crap resale value, crap build quality, not stellar reliability, horrible customer relations, and their name isnt even worth as much as Hyundai (the new Sonata, and Azera really are great cars. The same car though...). What's up with that? Why can't Honda charge that much for a car? I guess inventing variable cam shaft timing was pointless, having the most complicated AWD system isnt worth anything, and manufacturer leading build quality/reliability isnt worth anything either then. Anyone can charge anything, its not if the manufacturer has the respect, its the car itself. So, you can't justify your statement claiming that Honda can't charge this much; because you haven't driven one, and you haven't seen one, so shut your hole.

posted by  aerith

you just did exactly the same thing, except on an opposite point of view

posted by  nighthawk

Agreed, but the Corvette is still awesome in it's own right. :2cents:

posted by  elchango36

I know, i was proving the point that it doesn't only work one way. So he should shut up.

posted by  aerith

You would be correct

posted by  OombaIsBack

haha, you're different, you hate everything honda.

posted by  aerith

:orglaugh: Nah, valve timing is cool and all, its just very overrated.

posted by  OombaIsBack

You said it's pointless. :screwy:

posted by  jedimario

How is Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control "overrated". Or is this just one of yet another crackpot oomba conclusions?

Why is having a VTEC head instead of a normal head WORSE? I fail to see how Variable Valve Timing is "overrated". Performance junkies back in the 60's would of killed to have that capability of a performance cam, but still have the easy driveability and economy of a normal one.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Its funny that you say that, even though most people for performance get VTEC timers to make it kick in way earlier. Might as well have a performance cam for a performance vehicle. The only area where its useful is for fuel economy. Its way overrated as a performance technology.

BTW, I didn't say it was pointless. I was making a joke. Quit taking everything so seriously when its most obviously sarcasm.

posted by  OombaIsBack

I never addressed the pointless, I said was addressing the overrated part.

You cant be serious about the first paragraph...

"Just have a high performance cam"...Have you ever driven a vehicle with high performance cams? Daily driving them is a PAIN. I've been in my friend's dad's 66 Mustang 351W with a high performance camand he HATES driving it around normally, it's very annoying. Also, I've had the "pleasure" of driving a 1g DSM with 272 I/E Cams and it was a painful daily driver. I think you need to get out and DRIVE a vehicle with a high performance cam to see why you'd want a variable valve timing equipped vehicle that can go into "high performance" mode when you need it (in the upper rpms).

posted by  thunderbird1100

Whether joking or not, you still said it.

posted by  jedimario

Actually, I did say it at all. I said "You would be correct." Thats not saying it. Dont take shit so seriously, thats how every post on here turns into a flame war.

posted by  OombaIsBack

OK fine, you confirmed it. Either way, your first position was that it's pointless, then it changed to overrated. Two completely different things. And if you're gonna joke about something, use a smiley, jk, lol, or w/e. In case you didn't notice, sarcasm doesn't go through cables very well.

posted by  jedimario

Bitch shut up. j/k bitch.

V-Tech is an overrated engine technology that works.

posted by  What?

Just go away would ya?? :banghead:

posted by  jedimario

Wo! I reckon it looks wicked! I would buy it as is for THAT price :drool:
But then again it's that 'concept' thing :banghead:

btw I heard something interesting on Top Gear. Out of the many million VTEC engines Honda manufactured (don't recall the exact figure) - failures reported so far : none

posted by  solaar

That's correct....I couldn't believe it at first either!

posted by  Cliffy

Did that mean with the VTEC system or the entire engine itself?

posted by  thunderbird1100

I believe it's the whole engine..

posted by  Cliffy

That's amazing, but it seems like it would be difficult to confirm.

posted by  jedimario

Not really, because Honda will more than likely find out about any Engines they supplied, which I'm guessing will out number thoughs sourced from scrapped cars etc! :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

Yeah, but to keep track of millions? Seems overwhelming. There's gotta be somethin out there didn't get reported or a report that somehow didn't make it or something.

posted by  jedimario

Possibly, but the figures are still very impressive lol

posted by  Cliffy

WHOOOA No failures with V-Tec's...almost impossible to believe lol...BTW when does the season end? (So I can download it) :laughing:

posted by  chris_knows

VTEC, not V-Tech. V-Tech is an electronics company.

posted by  OombaIsBack

Jeeze, he was just kidding, cant you tell sarcasum through a keyboard:wink2:

posted by  thunderbird1100

He didn't quote you though lol....

Of Top Gear?...I presume that's what you mean as that seems to be all you download lol....last season ended a while ago.....Another one's yet to start!

posted by  Cliffy

Oh, I'm looking for it now lol :thumbs:

posted by  chris_knows

oh that sucks ... thats a huge blow for honda ... im thinkin it'll come back though cause that is just how the market works anymore

posted by  lamboluver

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