In your opinion who makes better cars, Toyota or Honda?

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In your opinion who makes better cars, Toyota or Honda?
A Friend of mine got Toyota Camry. It has more than 170K miles on it. He said nothing broke so far. I am considering my next car to be Toyota or Honda
Thanks,
sam12

posted by  sam12

thats a difficult one but id have to say both!
may sound strange but i think they are as good as each other

posted by  True_Brit

That's a tough cookie. They both make great reliable cars. It all comes down to styling and lately, I haven't been feeling Toyota's new looks. Even today's Acura's look better than the Lexus'. :2cents:

posted by  elchango36

that is true! honda do make the more attractive car! i reckon the honda is a more attractive car to the young buyer also!!! like the new accord and the camry, id say the accord looks better,
i think the Honda is the best bet

posted by  True_Brit

Both are just as good, but if I had my choice of a higher milage car, id get a toyota. Too many kids buy honda's and beat on them. I got my honda after it was leased, and it was once sold as a certified vehicle, so I had no worries there.

posted by  newyorker

that is true, thats why so many have honda! i would have a toyota though but honda would be a first choice

posted by  True_Brit

I know someone whos engine seized in his Acura Integra around 90,000 miles. But I also know of people whos Hondas and Toyotas lasted well over 200,000 miles, even into the 300,000 mile mark. Overall, though, since the Supra is no more I hand it to Honda. Toyota just bores me to tears as a company. Their only "sport"-ish car is the Celica. I hate the Celica. Whereas Honda has the new Civic Si, NSX, S2000, RSX, etc. Something for everyone.

Honda for the win.

posted by  PontiacFan27

I don't know how that has anything to do with "who MAKES a better car?"

posted by  elchango36

It doesn't, but he needed to say something so that others will think he has a valid opinion. :banghead:

To answer the OP's question, I personally prefer Hondas but form a professional standpoint Toyotas generally go farther with less mechanical repairs, regardless of the age of the driver. Except for the oddball POS, you can't really go wrong with either of them.

P.S. I hope you all realize that this thread will be deleted as soon as a mod comes along and takes care of the spamming OP.

P.P.S. We also don't know "better" for what.

posted by  vwhobo

As far as reliablility goes, JD Power (I think that's the company that does those surveys) says Toyotas and Lexuses are more reliable, but Honda's pretty high too. And I think Toyotas and Lexuses are boring and ugly, I'd go with Honda (or Acura). Especially the TL :drool:

posted by  jedimario

honda do make great cars, and are great competitors in the British Touring Car Championship!!!!! Toyota havnt entered that championship for over 10 years!

posted by  True_Brit

honda btcc 2006
http://static.flickr.com/51/126562889_d5fdbd7c21_m.jpg

1996
http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-72993/Bilder/btcchonda.gif


and the last car toyota entered in was a Carina in about 1994
but i couldnt find pics

posted by  True_Brit

i like high MPG cars, since gas is still high. im thinking my next car be Toyota Yaris

posted by  aye87

i said they are both the same, but i would have a toyota instead.

posted by  newyorker

those wer the days...

posted by  mazda6man

yes indeed, it all fell apart after the super tourer rules in 2000,
2000 was a great season! the cars looked and performed better too!

posted by  True_Brit

I really don't like the look of modern BTCC cars, but back then the cars costs a fortune to develop so the regulation changes had to happen.

Lexus is in BTCC(sponsored by friends reunited:ohcrap: ) but they aren't doing so well.

posted by  fudge

yes, but they arn't a manufacturer team!
only vauxhall, honda and seat are!

posted by  True_Brit

I don't think the Hondas are manufacturers, if they were they would sell the DC5 Integra in the UK(which I don't think they are).

posted by  fudge

you are right!
http://www.btcc.net/html/home.php
im a Matt Neal-Honda fan to the core!!!

posted by  True_Brit

You can't go wrong picking a car from either of these companies. Both make very reliable cars.mHowever, if I had to choose a car based on reliability, I would go with Honda. Honda engines are definately the most reliable on the market today. They can be beat on for thousands of miles and still run smooth. :2cents:

posted by  05BlackWRX

Are you sure about that. Do you have any facts to support that statement, or is it just your opinion? I own multiple automotive repair shops and we keep excellent records. I also have dozens of friends who own repair shops and also keep excellent records. The data we've collected over the years simply doesn't support your opinion. Next time before you state something as fact, make damn sure it is. :roll:

posted by  vwhobo

Yeah, I am sure it is. There are numerous amounts of data online that support my claim. I have a friend who runs an auto shop a town over. He has even claimed after 11 years of being in buisness he has fixed many more Toyotas then he has Hondas claiming "Honda just builds better engines." This is not to say that Toyota is unreliable, this is to say that they are not as reliable as Honda. If you were to do a little research before YOU posted, you would be fully aware of Toyotas "dark period" of recalled autos with engine failure claims that have killed several individuals on highways. When has Honda had a problem like this? Know your shi* before you post! If you have several sources of information that conflicts with an existing claim, post it respectivley! I respect that you took the time to note the difference between Honda and Toyota autos coming into the shop but please...I'm getting a different claim from a guy who has been in buisness 11 years. This is my "research"...believe it or not...i don't care.

Not that is matters, Honda Fit/Jazz is rated the most reliable car in the world by a survey of consumers, mechanics, and insurance companies...Look it up

posted by  05BlackWRX

In addition to my last post, I thought I would share another piece of information i stumbled upon today...

Honda vs Toyota: You decide

The 10 most reliable cars according to Warranty Direct:

1 - Honda Accord - A classy package, well put together and feels more special than the average family car. Superb engines and value for money. 2 - Subaru Forester - Not quite an off roader, much more than an estate with a sporty edge, making it the perfect combination. Great all round buy. 3 - Mazda MX-5 - Blueprint for the modern roadster with sweet handling and engines to match. Extremely easy to live with. 4 - Mitsubishi Carisma - Despite the name, not that interesting to look at or drive, but that’s not the point. Here is a no-nonsense hatchback that won’t let you down. 5 - Toyota Yaris - Superminis don’t come better. Bags of room and perky engines. Probably the best small car buy. 6 - Honda Civic - Solid build quality and good engines are just part of the appeal, the Civic is one of the most spacious small cars around. Great value. 7 - Nissan Almera - A dull package, but that’s no reason to dismiss the Almera which is practical and perfect for the smaller family who need a big boot and utter reliability. 8 - Honda CR-V - Proof that you don’t need an XXXL 4x4. Here is a four-wheel drive estate that is flexible, easy to drive and own. 9 - Toyota RAV4 - So few four-wheel drives are fun to drive. This car is suitably sporty, but very practical. Expensive used buy but worth it. 10 - Nissan Micra - The driving school favourite. Tough, fairly roomy, but with its light controls is easy to steer around town.

*Once again...This is not to say Toyota is unreliable. It made it several times in the top ten most reliable cars. Also note...This is only one source so take it for what its worth and develop some CONSTRUCTIVE & RESPECTFUL debate if necessary.

Hope the info was helpful :sleep:

posted by  05BlackWRX

You say this guy's been in business for 11yrs like it's some sort of big thing.....I won't speak for hobo but I think I know what he's gonna say :wink2:

The Euro Accord, yes, but I wouldn't say the US model is more attractive than say a Toyota Camry :2cents:

http://www.carpage.hu/accord-euro-r1.jpg

http://www.yellowheadhonda.com/newvehicles/images/AccordHybrid.jpg

posted by  Cliffy

Meh, I'd take a new V6 Honda Accord over a Toyota Camry Solara any day of the week.

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2003/newyork/highlights/images/toyot a-solara7s.jpg
Dual exhaust anyone?
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/images/2aughon5.JPG

posted by  elchango36

[QUOTE=Cliffy]You say this guy's been in business for 11yrs like it's some sort of big thing.....I won't speak for hobo but I think I know what he's gonna say :wink2:

Yeah I know what he might say, but he might want to think about it carefully. Whether someone is in buisness 2, 6, 11, 20, or 35 years there experience is worth something. I think being in buisness 11 years gives someone the right to start making conclusions about auto manufacturers based on fact ie. first hand experience with working on different types of automobiles. I have also failed to mention that this is not the guys only close and true experience with automobiles. He has, as you may have guessed, worked in many mechanic shops and over a long period of time. The man is 57 years old.

Another note...We are jumping in this board from "what car do you prefer" to "what car is more reliable" to "which engines last longer."<-------(my fault)

Ill break it down barney style for some...

1. In terms of preference...I'd have to pick Honda. They just have the performance and style I am looking for in there newer cars. Toyota linup, aside from the Scions TC and Lexus, do not have anything I would really consider buying.

2. In terms of overall reliability...I don't have enough data to support a conclusion. Both companies...when following the scheduled maintenance plan(which most Americans don't like to do) are very reliable. There is no reason why anyone should not be able to put 200,000 miles on a civic or corolla. Hard to pick a winner here.

3. In terms of engine durability...I'd have to go with Honda. I am not picking this off of opinion or favortism. I am picking this off of cold hard data and information that I have recieved and numerous sources have concurred. Let us not forget Toyota's "dark period" of recalled autos because of fatal engine problems.

Lastly...If you have any experience or hard data on this issue...please put it in the forum. I am receptive to all kinds of intelligent and respectful information whether it concur or refute my findings.:thumbs: Keep posting...

posted by  05BlackWRX

My vote goes to Honda.

posted by  67Coronet383

That is apparently untrue. My businesses and those of my colleagues represent literally thousands of years cumulative experience repairing all makes of vehicles. When I tell you that in general Toyota and Lexus vehicles have fewer and less costly repair bills than Hondas and Acuras, and specifically drivetrain related repairs, that is direct experince and hard data. But of course, you have chosen to refute those findings because you know someone who is 57 years old who works on cars.

Before I provided you with that information you could claim ignorance. If you continue to chose to ignore cold hard facts, that makes you stupid. The choice is yours.

posted by  vwhobo

Well I wouldn't buy either, but only because I don't like the looks of them. And because of that I have very little interest in either. The sales figures here certainly indicate that the Toyota is a favourite, but I don't know if that's based on aesthetics, reliability, value, etc. I do scrounge parts from Toyotas on occasions and find them quite well made (usually Aisan or Denso branded).

posted by  Wally

IYO opinion, how big of a difference between the two repair costs does it seem to be?

posted by  67Coronet383

I think they are just for different purposes. Even if you look at their luxury lines of acura and lexus, lexus makes quiet mommy cars (even the sc430 is not really sporty), and acura makes sportier cars. That's the difference between the two companies.

I don't know. It's kind of like apples to oranges.

posted by  Bronxie

I don't have the numbers in front of me, and as with any statistic where you keep a running total, they do change somewhat. However, the difference up to the 100k mile mark was on the order of 10% and up to the 200k mile mark was 12-13% at my shops. Those percentages were almost exactly the same when averaged across all of us who crunched our numbers. Across the board, Hondas required repairs slightly more often and the average ticket was slightly more expensive. We intentionally stopped at 200k because it's fairly unusual to see any car go over that mileage and still be in the hands of a concientious DIFM consumer.

These findings are in no way absolutely scientific, for reasons I've explained in other threads concerning this same general subject and the fact that while we have a good cross section of shops from across the country, we are only a small number of shops relatively speaking. However, we feel they paint a pretty acurate picture. This is in no way a condemnation of Hondas... Far from it. Honda makes an excellent car. They just tend to need a bit more work to keep them on the road over their lifespan than do Toyotas.

posted by  vwhobo

Sounds like it could just be a difference in the target consumers and how they may tend to drive perhaps?

posted by  Bronxie

lol...Is it you are unwilling to accept the fact that your claimed knowledge of Honda/Toyota reliability maybe less significant then you think or is it that you refuse to stop defending a worhless point?

I came out stating that Honda makes a more reliable engine and you attack that statement saying that is is not true. Okay..thats fine and dandy..but you refuse to hand over any information supporting this claim. If you were to say "my knowledge and connections to autoshop owners has led me to this conclusion based on our data." blah blah blah and in addition... "JD Powers rates Toyota/Lexus best reliability...blah blah blah, Then maybe I would look at your statement from one intelligent person to another. I simply can not take anything you have said seriously. You clearly have an agenda here to try to "combat ignorance" and my advice to you is "start with yourself." I gave you warranty direct's top 10 most reliable autos, the highest rated auto in the world, and my personal experience with one of many of my auto-mechanic contacts. Cut the attitude and post something with substance. Not to discredit you, but I hear people online all the time talk about how peopleshouldmod their skylines and supras according to their "proclaimed" experience. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they have no clue what they are talking about but 9 times out of 10 they have never owned either of them. Bring something tangilbe to the table so you can be constructive to this forum.

You mentioned drivetrains...I said Honda engines are more reliable then Toyotas. Unless you consider an engine a component of the drivetrain why the hell would that have any significance in this forum?:screwy: Another lesson for you; If you are going to attack something, know what it is. How did your argument shift from engines to drivetrains? Based on MY knowledge/Experience, Toyota drivetrains are more reliable so I agree with you on that but that wasn't my original statement...*Refer back to my original posts*

To quote someone...*ahem*
"Before I provided you with that information you could claim ignorance. If you continue to chose to ignore cold hard facts, that makes you stupid. The choice is yours.":banghead:

posted by  05BlackWRX

Thank you for something tangible...On average would you say that there were more manual Hondas then Toyotas requiring drivetrain repair/replacement? If so, would you say the age of the Honda drivers might have somthing to do with it? Off the top of your head..you know which model Honda and Toyota have seen the most problems according to your data.

posted by  05BlackWRX

With my marketing hat on, wouldn't any statistics be skewed by the type of clients each shop attracts? For instance a one man band may get a bit of a following from Honda owners after he fixed a car for an opinion leader. Or the guy who has several shops with half a dozen guys inhouse per location may attract the mass marketed vehicle owner who isn't looking for a specialist. Or a fair few defects are ironed out under warranty at Honda/Toyota franchised workshops.

posted by  Wally

If what vwhobo says is true, all those minor factors would be ironed out based on thousands of cumulative years of experience and huge amounts of data.

It's like if you take 20 different cases and make the judgement that hondas are better than toyotas for example, then you have to factor those in, but after thousands and thousands of cases over the years, those don't really factor in. You get a general idea of what is better based on the average driver.

posted by  Bronxie

Very valid point but hobo claims to have contacts in shops in various locations so his data, if true, is valid. The only thing I tried to bring up is the market for Honda buyers vs Toyota buyers. Especially toward the more modern cars, I think Honda is the choice of the younger crowd for thier performance and styling(This is assumption). If this is true, I know more Hondas are likely to be purchased witha manual transmission. In other words Teen+Manual Trans=Abuse. This equation has the potential to skew any type of scientific-like analysis. People I know have claimed that Honda definately appeals to the younger crowd however I am not able to confirm this with facts.

posted by  05BlackWRX

You're just looking for any shred of evedence that Hondas are better than Toyotas. The only thing you're proving is your own biased view. The bottom line is that this particular study demonstrated statistically that Toyotas require on average less and less costly repairs than do Hondas over the first 200k miles. As a matter of fact, younger drivers trended toward fewer repairs and lower costs than older owners of both makes after removing all receipts where the shop was repairing work performed by the owner.

posted by  vwhobo

Lol...Once again. I will break it down Barney style so you are able to post accordingly...

1. I am not looking for a shred of evidence to prove Honda is better...I asked for your findings to answer a question(Refer back to previous posts)

2. You still never addressed the issue of drivetrain vs engine repairs which is presenting a big issue here(Refer back to previous posts).

3. You have a shred of information, as do I. I have not discredited your information in anyway so get your panties out of a twist. I have not presented all of my findings/knowledge of Toyota/Honda reliability. I am comparing your findings/data to what I legitamitly know and have experienced in order to learn MORE on the issue. This is called "intelligent" research and you should try it sometime.

posted by  05BlackWRX

Posting "Barney style" only serves to make you look like more of an imbecile and someone with an agenda. No surprise there.

Since it seems so important for you to have me provide you with evidence, how about you reciprocate. So far your only supporting material is someone who is 57 years old and work on cars and the fact that you firmly believe Honda makes better engines. Neither of those are facts or even reasonably documented statistics, they are only opinions. And opinions without facts to back them up are just like assholes... Everybody has one and they all stink.

As I stated before, based on the finding of mine and other shops, Toyota wins the reliability sweepstakes if only by a very slight margin. That is based on numbers legitamitly obtained through organizations that have no axe to grind, only curiosity to satisfy. Unless you can tell me that you have personal experience with thousands of cars across the country, and have documentation to back that up, your opinion means no more to me than some crackhead on the corner... maybe less.

Now, as your hero might say to a petulant child, "grow up sweetie and get a grip". :wink2:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/Barneythedino.jpg

posted by  vwhobo

Lol...are you slow or something? Please read my previous posts with consumer based information. To state that my "opinion"(although I have presented information) means no more to you then a crack head on the corner is just ignorant to the highest degree. I like your choice to capitalise on my use of breaking it down "Barney style" as the beef of your post instead of addressing any of the points I had addressed. I have no use for you. I am not wasting any more of my time or this boards room to argue with someone as ignorant and immature as yourself. It seems you enjoy arguing point for point then explaining informations based off stats. I put fourth top ten autos on reliability(warranty direct), best rated auto for reliability(world consumer report), and only a sliver of my experience/contacts(57 year old you keep bringing up). It seems like I'm the only one really addressing points here. I'm done with you. Some people can't learn and some people don't want to learn. I haven't figured out which one you are yet...

posted by  05BlackWRX

Guess what Twinkie. I'll probably have to do this like barney, so you can understand it. Nowhere in any of your supplied information is the longevity of the engines broken out. You just keep repeating the same BS hoping that no one will notice that what you're saying IN NO WAY addresses the issue that you are attempting to prove. You are a world class moron.

I suggest at this time that you stop playing with your mommy's computer and go back to your favorite show. THAT my little friend might be something that you can more easily comprehend.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/%2ATN_000107.jpg

Idiots like you are so very predictable. :doh:

posted by  vwhobo

One of the rare times vwhobo gave someone a chance and tried to hold a serious non-violent conversation on a topic and the person ruined it by being a boob :(

posted by  Bronxie

Are you serious??? Barney style one last time...

You have ONLY mentioned the longevity of drivetrains NOT engines...If you seriously think that the engine is a drivetrain then YOU should stop playing with YOUR mommys computer and learn a little bit more about autos. If you seriously try to justify your remark then you are just retarded. One last piece of advice for you...stop talking...seriously...just stop. You are making more of a fool of yourself to anyone who has a basic knowledge of automobiles.

posted by  05BlackWRX

As I said, predictable... Dead f*cking predictable. I thought you were "done with me", Twinkie? You have absolutley nothing useful to ad to this conversation, so you hope that by using big words and make obviously false insinuations about my level of knowledge and experience that will somehow make you more authoritative. Guess what, it doesn't work. Everyone who reads this thread can see you're nothing more than an agenda driven, biased, boob. One person even said so.

Lasty... Anytime you want to go head to head with me and compare actual knowledge, not something you read on the internet, I'm more than ready. Based on what I've read in this thread, my 13 year old step son probably has more in depth knowledge than you. I hope he doesn't read this for fear of hurting his feelings comparing a dolt like you to him. Get over yourself idiot, you are a small and insignificant pimple on the ass of Car-Forums and no longer worth trying to educate.





[Next scene - Idiot responds with semi-articulate yet inane diatribe]

posted by  vwhobo

Hobo is probably the most intelligent member on these boards. I can assure you he has much more than a "basic knowledge of automobiles."

posted by  PontiacFan27

Your check is in the mail. :wink2:

posted by  vwhobo

Thats a tough question. I think Honda may be the better made car, but here in the US at least the Toyota dealers are considered the best out there. However at least here theyre kinda equal in both respects. I think Toyota makes vehicles that are more driven slightly more to practicaltity and functionality, while Honda veers slightly to performance and dynamics. For example, the Camry Hybrid here in the US is marketed more to save fuel costs, while the Accord Hybrid doesnt offer much better mileage, but it is a heck of alot faster, more of a perf flagship for the Accord range. However, these differences and tendencies are very subtle, though each make does have its own personality. Its really just a matter of taste I think. Id use a Camry hybrid as my grocery-getter/commuter while id take a Civic Si for anything else (namely fast driving).

posted by  omegaV12

He thinks I use "big words" in order to sound more intelligent. What "big words" have I used??? This remark is not only stupid and immature, it is on par with the mind of a twelve year old.

Anyone who thinks an engine is a drivetrain would never touch an automobile of mine!!!

I hope you are not fooled by this man/boy...I have set no agenda, I have not presented any of MY own information, and it is clear that hobo doesn't have a basic grasp on the issue at hand. Once again...I made a statement of Hondas ENGINE reliability and hobo speaks of drivetrains...ISN'T IT CLEAR HE IS SKIRTING THE ISSUE OR AM I THE ONLY ONE SEEING THROUGH HIM?!?

posted by  05BlackWRX

Actually I recall him mentioning the overall reliability of toyotas and hondas, and stating that based on a shit load of data, toyotas tend to require less repairs and less expensive ones at that. He wasn't specifically referring to the engine or the drivetrain per se, just the cars themselves.

I don't know why people get so mad here :-\ We need happy topics!

posted by  Bronxie

[QUOTE=vwhobo]That is apparently untrue. My businesses and those of my colleagues represent literally thousands of years cumulative experience repairing all makes of vehicles. When I tell you that in general Toyota and Lexus vehicles have fewer and less costly repair bills than Hondas and Acuras, and specifically drivetrain related repairs, that is direct experince and hard data. But of course, you have chosen to refute those findings because you know someone who is 57 years old who works on cars.QUOTE]

Are you sure about that Bronxie?

posted by  05BlackWRX

I think the key word you're missing is and

posted by  thefonz

huh? explain...

posted by  05BlackWRX

He means you didn't highlight the word "and" in vwhobo's quote and that changes it a bit.

His statement was about how toyotas need less repairs than hondas, specifically in the drivetrain department. The main and primary statement was still the general statement. That was just an elaboration.

:-\

posted by  Bronxie

yeah...even if I highlighted "AND", my point is that he mentioned nothing on engine issues. His statement was in response to my statement on "preferance vs reliability vs ENGINE reliability." Nowhere in any of my posts did I EVER say that Hondas were overall more reliable then Toyotas. I did say that Honda ENGINES were more reliable then Toyota ENGINES. I think VWhomo missed that concept when trying to debate.

posted by  05BlackWRX

How about we just let this thread die a natural death.

posted by  Wally

Agreed. It has turned constructive to destructive...RIP

posted by  05BlackWRX

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