b16, b18, ls\vtec , and obd 1 & 2 help

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yo when making any of these swaps is it eaasyer when the car has obd1 or obd2 ?

oh and if i do ls/vtec do i have to run boost right away?

posted by  miatalover3509@

i am not sure about the first question so i wont answer it... however i am pretty sure that ls/vtec is bassicly adding a vtec head to non vtec engine...
Ex... if u have an integra ls, then by adding a vtec head it would make it like a GSR. ( head not whole car) from what i understand ls/vtec has nothin to do with boost. correct me on that if i am wrong.

if u want to boost u can turbo the motor without adding vtec...

posted by  V-Tec

oops double post

posted by  V-Tec

Its usually easier to mod and change things with OBD1. But if the motor is from and OBD2 car, and your car is an OBD2 itll make things easier. Otherwise youll be adding or removing sensors out that ass.

posted by  PontiacFan27

As Pontiacfan said, the swaps a lot easier if the engine your swapping coressponds to your car. IF you car's OBDI, swap an OBDI engine. If your cars OBDII, avoid the headaches and swap an OBDII engine. And with the ls/Vtec, no you don't need to run boost right away. It's a popular choice for boost because of the up'd displacement and high flow head.

posted by  elchango36

ls vtec is sweet, just dont miss a gear more than once/or at all for that matter... it wont live long... they werent made for vtec

posted by  mazda6man

realy but which ones better to do a swap to?

posted by  miatalover3509@

all prefrence... gsr is more popular, but b16 is cheaper... same engine, one is just stroked 200cc... and has a slightly different head

posted by  mazda6man

oh yea ..sorry dbl posting but for you engine swap to be leagal dont you have to have the engine from the same or newer year? and how much power am i lookin at w/ and w/o boost...

i also heard about that when runnin ls/vtec you need to drill into the head to get oil flo or somthin...iono fill me in im only 16 and its pretty hard to finance this shiznit so i wanna do it right + i have access to the school shop w/ lift's and im in there 2 periods a day...

:driving:

posted by  miatalover3509@

What do you want out of your car and how much money do you have. Best swap would be a K20 but not many can afford it. B18C1 would put you at a nice spot. The B16 is a "torque-less wonder" but cheap, and the b18a/b was non-Vtec. It comes down to what you want. Boost vs N/A

posted by  elchango36

After seeing the speed of the K20 EG on American Touge, I'm pretty sure it'll be a legendary engine in the Honda camp in the future.

posted by  fudge

It's already becoming the engine everyone aspires for. I'm sure in a few more years, the K20Z3 will replace the B18C5 as the holy grail of honda engines.

posted by  elchango36

K20+CRX=:mrgreen:

posted by  05BlackWRX

b20 vtec is sexy too.. i dunno, but i love it

posted by  mazda6man

:roll:

Its valve timing, not boost. VTEC has the same effect as race-ish cams, except not full time. The stock fuel and air delivery systems can handle the requirements of cams easily, so theres no reason why anyone should worry any more about messing up with VTEC over non-vtec.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Except that VTEC engines tend to make their power at a higher RPM while using essentially the same bottom end components. When you shift, you're generally already at a higher shift point. If you miss said shift, you'll tend to zing the engine higher.

You should be concerned about missing a shift with any engine, but in this case it's generally more critical with the VTEC because of that.

posted by  vwhobo

not same as turbo?!?! no sh1t.... see hobos poost above... but also keep in mind, as i stated-LS/vtec, the LS block wasnt made to handle the vtec system, while it makes good power with it, it still doesnt mean that it can always handle it. i mean, you have to drill and tap make the vtec head even fit... i wonder if they did that for a reason...?

posted by  mazda6man

Just because it wasn't made to handle the VTEC system doesn't mean it cant. You act like all engines that arent designed for performance will instantly grenade if you do any mods.

posted by  PontiacFan27

now i didnt say that... im talking about the LS, and from my experiance and many other honda guys experiance... ls vtec can o bad faster than say, b16 ir b18 vtec engines if not careful

posted by  mazda6man

True, Friend Taked his old GSR to hell trying to kill it before he got his type S. The thing refused to die but keep in mind that it is worse on a higher reving engines(any VTEC) and should be avoided. I wouldn't say that you really have to "worry" about it though.

posted by  05BlackWRX

Obviously..An LS is not a standard VTEC, therfor adding a VTEC is the equivalent to adding a bolt-on turbo with no tuning. If over reved, it could hurt the engine.

posted by  05BlackWRX

kinda

posted by  mazda6man

I can see the idiocy that Hobo sees in you now. First, what turbo is 'bolt-on'? Second, overreving is dangerous to any engine, not just a LS VTEC. VTEC adds nothing but a racier cam profile at higher RPM. Big ****ing deal. You can add racier cams to the motor without the VTEC head and it would be the exact same thing as swapping the VTEC head, except you would see its benefits all the time. A cam swap alone is not enough to make a drastic difference in the motors lifetime compared to boost. Comparing VTEC to boost just proves how big of a moron you are.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Don't worry. Eventually Mommy will find out he has her computer password and he'll disappear forever.

posted by  vwhobo

1. Any turbo added onto a car is considered a "bolt on.":screwy

2. I mentioned that racing any engine was not good.

3. You are right about adding racier cams and it = VTEC, I never disagreed with you(check previous posts)

4. Comparing VTEC to boost is not moronic...Any breathing performance modification has a cause and effect at higher revs. Sometime this is an increase in power, decrease in tq curve, or running (rich/lean) I have been modding cars for some time now, please don't tell me that comparing boost to VTEC is stupid. In the end, they have a cause and effect, and that cause and effect can only be ironed out through proper tuning.

You really need to stop thinking hobo is god. (Refer back to Honda vs Toyota thread.)

posted by  05BlackWRX

Boost has much more drastic effects than VTEC. Boost, depending on psi, has a much higher fuel requirement than VTEC. Never will adding a VTEC head be too much for the stock fuel system to handle. Also, it'll never give you the amount of power boost will. The factory ECU can adjust to minor mods like cams, but it cant always make up for boost.

Secondly, I've never said Hobo was a god. I don't really care for the guy because he is reluctant to help people most of the time. That doesn't mean I don't recognize his wealth of car knowledge that he has accumulated through years(decades?) of work in the field.

posted by  PontiacFan27

Putting stickers on your Hot Wheels cars doesn't really count as "modding cars" in the real world. At least not to anyone older than 12. :wink2:

posted by  vwhobo

STFU you poor excuse of a human being!

posted by  05BlackWRX

I agree that boost has a much more drastic effect than VTEC but now you are changing your stance. I never said that adding a VTEC would be too much for the stock fuel system to handle. I simply stated the cause and effect of adding a breathing mod i.e. VTEC to a non VTEC engine. It will not give the desirable balanced performance untill properly tuned. It is also not doing the engine any good untill properly tuned. It doesn't mean the car will blow up, it just means you are adding a foreign mod to a non acustomed engine.

Example...When I added intake and exhaust mods to my WRX, I could have just left the mods on untill the onboard ECU "learned" to adjust to them. If I did this, the time that the ECU is not adjusted my car would be running rich/lean and basically nonefficiently. This is not far removed from the concept of adding a VTEC.

Secondly...I recognize his experience also, but I think he gives himself too much credit. He claims knowledge, sometimes he is right and sometimes he misses the point. In the end, he is the most unhumble SOB out there. Sometimes I tend to lower myself to his "debate style" and go to the name calling game, but I will resist the urge in the future.;)

posted by  05BlackWRX

What's the matter little fella? Hate getting tangled up in your own words. Like for example, when you stated;


Well, ya see Twinkie, really it is unless you also think that comparing apples and oranges "is not moronic". While the end result is very generally the same, to increase the VE and therefore power of the original engine, the way it's accomplished, the dynamics of how it increases power of said engine and most importantly the additional stresses that are applied to both the rotating and reciprocating assemblies of the engine are for the most part entirely different.

No matter how you cut it, there are substantial differences between variable valve timing of any kind and unaturally asperating an engine. I know these words won't mean very much to you until you have a chance to consult howstuffworks.com, your pile of Super Tuner magazines and re-watch all three F&F movies so let me break it down for you. Once again you're wrong... Dead wrong. But then we wouldn't expect anything else for you, would we darlin'. :wink2:

BTW, while you're typing your uneducated and indignant reply, why don't you tell us from a dynamic standpoint what the primary difference is the added power created by VVT (that means VTEC in this particular case) and turbocharging? The answer should be extrememly simple for someone who claims to have been "modding cars for some time now". Go for it little man, we're all waiting to read what the forum's new village idiot has to say.

posted by  vwhobo

Just to blow up your skirt homo, I will explain...:sleep: Well homo...I'll explain it simple so I don't confuse you or leave room for you to misunderstand something and have you try to turn it around on me...

Primary is a matter of opinion. I could rattle off...A turbo condenses air while VVT passes it through faster...but then again...you can twist that one around on me fairly easily...

You eat and you shi*...A car intakes air and removes waste. A VTEC speeds the process of this intake and exhaust by opening and closing cam valves electronically depending on RPM. This gives the Honda VTEC a "dual cam" ability because it can operate on a lower cam performance when reved lower but can kick in as a race-like cam when reved higher. VTEC or Valve Timing and lift Electronic Control. The computer or "electronic" component to VTEC changes the valve open/close timing electronically depending on the RPM of the engine.

A turbo is a different story. A turbo condenses the outside air prior to the combustion process. This allows more air and fuel to be smashed into engine cylinder to explode thus releasing power. A turbo simply condenses the air to a smaller volume making more room for air and fuel.

IF YOU THINK THAT A VTEC OR TURBO CAN BE APPLIED TO A NON-VTEC OR NON TURBO ENGINE WITHOUT THE PROPER TUNING IS FINE THEN YOU ARE IGNORANT. THEY ARE BOTH COMPARIBLE IN THIS WAY. THEY BOTH ULTIMATELY PLAY A PART IN THE INDUCTION/COMBUSTION/EXHAUST PROCESS AND SHALL BE COMPARED ON THAT BASIS. I NEVER SAID A VTEC WAS THE SAME AS A TURBO OR VICE VERSA. IF YOU READ MY ENTIRE POST INSTEAD OF ISOLATING A PART FOR YOU INTERPRETATION, YOU WOULD HAVE NOT MADE AN UNECCESARY AND IGNORANT INSPIRED POST...WAKE UP HOMO. :sleep:

BASED ON YOUR RESPONSE I WILL CONTINUE TO OBSERVE HOW AGENDA DRIVEN YOU REALLY ARE.

posted by  05BlackWRX

sorry, i know im a little late on this one... but........

this months matchup
the undesputed heavyweight champion of the world for tech knowlege making people look retarded and everything else with a record of to many to zero, vs the new comer to the forums, 05blackwrx...


lets get ready to rruuuummmbllle!

posted by  mazda6man

ha lol...nice. search vwhobo in google sometime. someone needs a life. the link to the honda forum is especially funny. read the description.

posted by  05BlackWRX

THE FACTORY ECU CAN COMPENSATE FOR THE DEMANDS OF VTEC.

You're supposed to reset your ECU when you do mods you idiot.

posted by  PontiacFan27

You are obviously the idiot. Resetting the ECU by itself does little to nothing. Resetting the ECU and driving the car on an open track and practically tacking every gear is what needs to be done. This is how the ECU adjusts to mods. This is a form of tuning you moron. :sleep: ...next!

posted by  O5BlackWRX

When you do mods, you're supposed to reset the ECU and let it idle for about a minute so it can relearn everything.

posted by  PontiacFan27

You are correct, however the ECU is not fully adapted to performance driving. There is much debate to the actual times of letting the car sit with disconnected battery and idling time but I will tell you some proven times for a wrx that I have learned through talking to fellow NASIOC members...After completing a mod, the cars battery should be left disconnected for at least 10minutes. The car should then be turned on a left to idle for about 5-10 minutes. After this is done, the car should be taken for a spirited drive, hitting redline as much as possible(This is like the tuning process) for as long as it takes for the driver to feel confident that they have pushed the car. The car should be left to idle for another 5-10 minutes before being turned off. This will give the car an advantage when you really rev up the engine in spirited/performance driving. The ECU will automatically know what to do because it already learned from the tuning process. It will not have to relearn higher reved outputs when you want the best out of the engine. It will also avoid times when the ECU will want to richin fuel and retard timing as a safety mechanism to protect the engine in response to a mod.(more common in newer engines).

posted by  O5BlackWRX

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