Looking for more acceleration.

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My 1992 civic hatchback has a 1.4L 16valve engine. I love this car, but it's really slow...especially off the line. Once it gets into higher rpm ranges it's not so bad. So I'm wanting something to give me a little more torque, or acceleration.

My first thought would be a lightweight flywheel. Maybe open everything up with some new headers and exhaust? I've also heard that higher compression pistons will give me more acceleration, but i always thought those were just for turbo setups. That's really all i could come up with. What else could i do to increase acceleration? Any advice would be appreciated.


-Steve

posted by  stevewiffer

Good luck getting torque from that 1.4 without some intense work.

a. lightweight flywheel will help but I don't recomend them for daily driven cars, will take you a while to get used to and will eat up your stock clutch faster as well as burn more gas.
b. your car has a header, not headers.
c. exhaust will be loud and not all too beneficial
d. lower compression pistons are used on turbo setups

posted by  newyorker

ha.... Alright then. Would any of the affordable engine swaps give me noticeable gains? Maybe a b16?

posted by  stevewiffer

A swap for you is the way to go, but I dont know what it will cost you (havent dealt with hondas for a while).

I would say go for a B18, a B16 is just not too great a motor...well no it is but the B18 is easier to get power from.

Where are you located?

posted by  newyorker

D series power all the way

posted by  Enthusiast

I'm located in the Dallas-fort worth area. I have a d series right now...are there more powerful d series? A b18 wouldn't be to expensive. I'm thinking around 3-4k depending on my luck. I really don't know though.

posted by  stevewiffer

I thought your car had a 1.6 stock, not a 1.4...weird.

H22 swap. You will love it...if you have the money, do an H2B swap, google it, your car will be running low 13 second quarters with just the swap (not sure on numbers thats what i was told)

posted by  newyorker

The H2B swap looks great. Seems easier to mount than the h22. But i'm a huge newb to the car scene, and there seems to be a lot of custom work involved in getting the h2b in the car with no problems(i.e. frame rail banging, oil-pan angles, etc.) But I figure by the time im done doing all of the research that i'll have enough money to buy the thing. :banghead:

posted by  stevewiffer

Oh, and the stock engine may be a 1.6... but my dad had the engine swapped a while back, not for performance but just because something was wrong with the stock engine. Not exactly sure what's in it now, but i did find out it's actually a 1.5L(random?) not a 1.4L. Either way its slow.

posted by  stevewiffer

haha yea but dont worry, the 1.6 wasnt much faster.

Just swap a B or an H series in there, or an H2B, you will love every minute of it. Do suspension and brake mods to go with the extra power and have fun.

posted by  newyorker

cool, thanks for your help.


-steve :thumbs:

posted by  stevewiffer

I've got a B18B1 in my integra. Goes alright with the intake. I've driven a B18C1 and it was a bit faster, never been in a B18C5 though.
I have however been in a civic with an H22A. Fully reccomend it. The car screamed compared to any other honda I've been in. The motor ended up blowing up. Went through a big puddle with an iceman intake, sent a rod right through.
If you have the option I'd reccomend the H22 as well, but the B18s are pretty decent engines. I've had very little trouble with mine in the 90,000mi I've owned it.

posted by  DBain

Someone correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the H22 motor have the most torque of any other Honda 4cyl engine?

Definately go for an H22, buy the motor and trans, mounts from hasport, axles (or you might not even need them), and youll have to do a bit of trimming around the shifter area.

My friend has an EG that he bought as an automatic (coupe) and is now running a h22 with full boltons and Hondata S200 or S200, whatever they use. I can find out more info about the swap from him if you are interested, and he is actually selling the car if you want to buy one thats already done.

posted by  newyorker

yeah, im definitely going with the h22/h2b. Any info that you can give me on the swap would be awesome, considering I'm pretty novice.

posted by  stevewiffer

Where are you located?? If you are semi-local to me, I can source you most of the needed swap parts including the motor used for cheap.

edit: be aware that just the h2b kit is around 1600 last I checked, and youll still need an h22 motor and b series tranny. Stick with an H22 swap youll be happy as it is.

posted by  newyorker

Yeah, i'm not going for the h2b...im pretty sure its aimed towards people who already have a b series engine.

I'm in the DFW area, texas. So, assuming you're in philly....i'll probably have to get all of the stuff myself. But i do need to know a few things. First off...

1.) Can i use any H22 motor? (like this h22a type s? http://sunrisejdmmotors.com/engine_details.php?id=7&page=1)

2.) What new parts will i need to buy, and what are the best ones to get? I don't like being cheap, so lets just stick to the best.(new mounts? axles? anything)

3.) are there any common problems i might run into that i can prepare for early?(clearance issues?)

4.) should i try to get the engine locally...or order it from a shop?

Sorry for all of the questions, but like i said before, im a newb. :tard:

Any help would be awesome.

posted by  stevewiffer

Id say build the D series.
Get you some viatara pisonts, a z6 or y8 head, a crower cam, some good runs and slap a turbo on that bastard.

I still want to build me a turbo d sereis.

posted by  Enthusiast

1. IIRC you can use any H22 motor
2. Axles, Mounts, pedal assemblies, shifter, shifter linkages, ECU (not sure on this one but my friend ran an integra GSR ecu on his for a little while...p72 i think its called)
3. the h22 sits a bit lower than the d-series, i think its 4 inches
4. not sure, id say locally

posted by  newyorker

ok, so i've been hunting around. Do i want the obd1 or obd2? I've been reading that the obd1 is easier to modify than the obd2...and the obd1 is a lot cheaper. So with that knowledge alone...i would normally go with the obd1. But are there any advantages to the obd2 that i might like?

Also, lsd v. non-lsd. I cant really find a dumbed down definition of lsd...so i dont really know which one to go for. Once again the non-lsd is a lot cheaper. What is lsd going to do for me? Considering im going to be driving this on the street the majority of the time.

posted by  stevewiffer

OK, as far as OBD goes my experience is limited, but I think the emissions is different, OBD1 being easier to work with. I also hear it IS easier to tune and work with so I would go for that.

As far as LSD, definately go for it. LSD will make it easier to drive in the snow, and will make the car handle much better because it will transfer power to the wheel with the most grip (usually the outside wheel)...my buddy with the h22 EG says not getting an LSD transmission was the only thing he regrets from the swap.

posted by  newyorker

OBD I is usually easier to tune but OBDII doesnt require the sniffer if its a 96 or later which can be useful for some people.

posted by  Enthusiast

Isnt it even illegal to change OBD systems? I know here it is, so if you have an OBD2 motor in an OBD1 car its illegal and vise versa.

posted by  newyorker

First off, what's the sniffer? I guess I should find out what's legal here before I decide.

posted by  stevewiffer

I think its when your exhaust smells like fuel because you arent running a cat. I think OBD2 cars are exempt from it in the sense that if theres no CEL on, they can't fail you for not running a cat but im not 100% sure.

posted by  newyorker

hey hows it going. im in austin... dont go h22/h23 way to much work. if you want minimal work, you could get a d16 (it would bolt right in) and you could take the pistons form the d15. higher compression would give you more power. then find yourself a vtec head. they came on the 94-95 civic SI and the 1996-2000 EX civic. or for a little work go b20 with b16head

i dont belive it is illigal to change obd as long as you can pass emissions tests.

posted by  mazda6man

How would d15 pistons work in a d16...wouldnt the bore be different??

posted by  newyorker

its the same block. honda doesnt change much. the only difference is the stroke. ie rods and crank. bore is the same. i forgot to mention theres a cetain engine of the civic with the d15 for the pistons you would need. i forget what one it is. i want to say d15d1 but again not sure

oh also, another thing to raise compression would be to get a thinner head gasket.

posted by  mazda6man

ok nm,found what i was looking for

D15B7 pistons in D16Z6 with D16Z6 head and D16Z6 gasket (pistons will be about 0.028" above the top of the block)
compression ratio = 11.71:1

D16A6 has pistons with slight dish (not domed)
D16A6 pistons in D16Z6 with D16Z6 head and D16Z6 gasket
compression ratio = 9.96:1

yowzers! thats some compression. warning. something like this would need superunleaded petrol

posted by  mazda6man

The sniffer is when they put an OBD1 car on the dyno and put an emissions tester in the tailpipe and measuer hydrocarbons or whatever.

Yes they can fail you for not having a cat. You cannot legaly remove an emissions parts that were installed on it from the factory and use it on public roads.

posted by  Enthusiast

Finally, thank you mazda man, D power rules

posted by  Enthusiast

D series is ok... i like the b series but i am biased.

posted by  V-Tec

Ive seen some pretty nasty D-series, but I think the B and K series are just better starting platforms.

B20
K24/K20 frankenstein
K24
K20
B18

all great swaps to begin with, even without boost.

posted by  newyorker

I guess it just matters what kind of money one has. I guess D series can be the cheapest. B series is more expensive, and K series is the most expensive out of all of them.

posted by  V-Tec

I like K series alot, but they are too darn pricey. I really dont think you can beat the bang for the buck with a d series.

posted by  Enthusiast

well of course money is always what matters. d series is cheap and easy. parts are found pretty much everywhere. *looks under a rock "hey a d series engine"* lol ok maybe not everywhere but yeah.
k is cool, but theyre just getting so big. only k swap ive seen that i liked was the s2000 engine in a corolla

posted by  mazda6man

That motor is called the F20c/F22c, not a K...K series are in accords, TSX, RSX, etc.

posted by  newyorker

H22? :ohcrap:

And about this bang for your buck discussion...i really dont mind spending a little more money and doing a little extra work for a faster car with more potential than the cheaper engines. I prefer it. As far as i'm concerned, the h22 is pretty powerful for the price. Cheaper than a b18 ...and much cheaper than those k20's.

posted by  stevewiffer

Sure they call the S2000s 2.0/2.2s an F series but you know as well as I do its pretty much a damn K series.

posted by  Enthusiast

I would go for an H22 swap. Then decide if you want to boost. My buddy had an h22 eg with a header, full exhaust, and intake, and it moves pretty nicely. He has a JDM h22 that revs to over 8 grand, MUSIC

posted by  newyorker

haha oh yeah, my bad. ive been out of the honda scene for a long time now

posted by  mazda6man

if you were to go with an h series swap, id reccomend a frankenstein of h23 with the h22 vtec head. never hurts to go bigger

posted by  mazda6man

what does the frankenstein h23/h22 do for me? and what kind of hp and torque does it get? just curious.

also...do i have to buy 2 engines...or can i just buy the separate pieces of both?

posted by  stevewiffer

You can buy seperate pieces of both, but its easier to buy 2 engines, get all you need and sell off the parts rather than have to hunt down small bolts and gaskets with the other option.

I say stick with an H22, you will be happy enough, trust me, ive driven them :thumbs:

posted by  newyorker

just like any swap besides your d series, you need not only the engine, but the wiring harness, tranny, ecu, engine mounts new exhaust piping to link it up to the manifold, and etc...
just an fyi

posted by  mazda6man

Yeah, if theres anything else...then please fill in that "etc..."

I'm pretty new to the car scene. :oops: Anything i can prepare for...instead of running into during the swap, and delaying the process.

posted by  stevewiffer

honda-tech is your friend.

posted by  V-Tec

yea I should have said that pages ago, they probbably have whole DIY writeups for swaps :laughing:

posted by  newyorker

well, when it comes to getting a new engine and trans. it doesnt hurt to get a new clutch and flywheel (doesnt have to be a pricy one, just a stock one wiill do.) also resurface the flywheel is a good idea. oh, you would also need the axels, im not sure if theyre different or not, but im sure a standard axel from a d series engine cant handle anything else.

posted by  mazda6man

Oh wow, lots of good stuff there. Thanks.

posted by  stevewiffer

""My lug nuts require more torque than your honda makes"" :thumbs:

posted by  EPerkins

Until you get the GSX, that is probbably not the case...and even then I wouldn't be sure

posted by  newyorker

It was a joke. I really don't understand this in forums. Why is it always a competition of sarcastic remarks and "my d*ck is bigger than yours" attitudes?

posted by  EPerkins

Because YOU come in with the "my dick is bigger than yours" attitude trying to mindlessly bash on Hondas. Pot, kettle, black?

posted by  newyorker

Hey now. My dick may not be bigger, but your wife likes it plenty.

posted by  DBain

It was a quote that I saw on another site and I thought it was funny. I apologize for any emotional harm caused to honda owners but I would like to clear up that I was not bashing them I was simply copying and pasting a quote that I found humorous. Also, hondas are known for their low torque but the high revs and the vtech engines compensate for it along with a lot of import cars attempting to compete with torquey muscles. I did not say they were slow. The quote itself only commented on the low torque commonly found in hondas. But still, I apologize. And don't you drive a mazda anyways?

posted by  EPerkins

Does me driving a Mazda make that quote any less ignorant? Didn't think so.

posted by  newyorker

:orglaugh:

posted by  Spanky2324

Okay. You win :thumbs:

posted by  EPerkins

Average Torque needed for lug nuts= 80-90 lb ft

1988-1991 Honda Civic Hatchback
Displacement : 1,493 cc (91.1 cu in)
Bore and Stroke : 75 mm × 84.5 mm (3.0 in × 3.3 in)
Compression : 9.2:1
Power : 62 hp (46 kW) @ 5500 rpm & 82.6 ft·lbf (112.0 N·m) @ 3000 rpm [1]
Valvetrain : SOHC (4 valves per cylinder)
Fuel Control : OBD-O DPFI

posted by  EPerkins

Im sorry I couldn't find the 1992 1.4 stats. These were for the 1.5s. But that is besides the point because the quote (which was not created by me but by some other "ignorant" person) was not directed at this man's particular honda. Yes the quote uses the words "your honda" but the word "your" is used to be directed at honda owners in general. And yes there are also hondas that put out more than 80-90 torque but there are also many that are at or below that mark.

Ignorant-
adjective 1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

Because this quote has factual support..... well whatever....

posted by  EPerkins

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