Best B series?

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Right now I'm going to drop a B18C1 into my 98 Civic Lx is that the best choice?

posted by  Raven

First - I'd place it carefully...if at all.

Second - Is it the best choice for what?
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posted by  BavarianWheels

It all depends what application your using the engine with... If you you're looking for reliability and and a general increase in power go with the B series. However, they are becoming quickly outdated with the newer K series engines in the RSX, Accord, etc. K series have much more power than the b16a, b18c, etc. So if you want to see a pretty big increase in hp and torque, go with a K series. I beleive the K20 is in the rsx type S and produces over 200hp.

posted by  Solar

I think it is 200hp. That is the max stats on the RSX, the Accord uses the same engine? I didnt kno that, I do not know much about honda engines, ahaha. I would go with the K20 though, much better power increase, and i doubt you have to worry about reliability since all honda engines are pretty reliable. Unless you install it wrong. :wink2:

posted by  aerith

actually, the B18C7 has more power than the K series engine, but the C7 is a pretty rare engine that costs a pretty penny, so i dont think its worth it. there's also the H22A1, but its a heavy engine. the most expensive version of the h22 (the a1) has around 225hp if im not mistaken, but still, the K series is cheaper, technology is far more advanced, and light, so its the best choice. its just a matter of time until the japs release a version o fthat engine with a high compression level.

posted by  Inygknok

Yeah I'm with Inygknok on that one. I would advise putting a K20 inside of a Civic. The B18c would probably be your best choice. Thats what most honda guys do and it works out for them well. And how much does a brand new RSX engine cost? The B18c is about 4500 the K20 has gotta be in the 5k range.

posted by  DSMer

I have a B seris engine in my civic

If you gonna put it in becareful its a costly mistake if it goes wrong :banghead:

posted by  Lukaz

Why does everyone wanna swap? If you dont know a good choice engine Im guessing you dont know what you're doing. just stick with what you got. I dont know of anyone who swaps anything into a 98 civic, your carz a 98 why would you waste your money droppin a b18c in a fairly new car? just buy an integra for same amount of money and call it a day.

posted by  jzxTT

Why does anyone engine swap? If YOU don't know the reason to that I'm also guessing you don't know what you're talking about. If he wanted an Integra he would buy one, but he does'nt he has a Civic. Everyone is always talking about go buy this go buy that car, unless you're finna buy him an Integra I'd suggest you close your yapper. Its his car; he asked for advice, not your critisism.

I'm sure your comment really helped him. You've managed to complete abosolutley nothing. Congrats :banghead: .

posted by  DSMer

you should really mind ur own man... im not being a smart ass im sayin if he would realize what he has isnt that bad than he wouldnt need to spend 4 thou on a swap, but instead put four thou into his car, cosmetics, engine, suspension ect. DDAAMM u post a lot ~450 in less than a month. take a walk to the park or something. JP. its really addicting. :mrgreen:

posted by  jzxTT

*Sigh*
Maybe if you spent less time critisizing peoples cars and actually trying to help them, you might have 450 post. Instead, in every single engine swap thread you repeatedly say: "Go buy this" or "you should have bought this". They have what they have. Obviously this guys wants an all motor car and not just some cosmetic rice rocket like you're suggesting. Anyone with at least 3 working nuerons can tell that 4K worth of ugprades on a honda spread throughout cosmetic/engine/and suspension won't get him jack shit.

Again, you obviously must not understand the whole concept behind swapping your engine out for a better and newer one. Provided that you did know, you would not be wasting your time making stupid half assed comments about what he should purchase. You're not a car salesman, and if you are, thats not what this guy needs.

posted by  DSMer

My car was 11 years old,Thats why I have a jdmB16 in my integra.... Newer engine, because the old b18a had 170k miles on it, now would ******I******* swap anything in a *98* integra *98* civic. **NO** and that my friend is my own opinion. As far as 4 thousand dollars not getting you "jack shit", well.. 4 thousand in an engine could get you headers, intake, exhaust, camshafts,camgears, port and polish heads, rods, msd ignition, and more goodies. but that ~120hp gain is "jack shit" right? lol. We all have our own opinions and thats mine. my conversation is with him in his thread not you so MIND YOUR OWN BUSSINESS :fu: :fu:

posted by  jzxTT

:clap:

i agree, swapping an engine into a pretty much brand new car is rather pointless unless its going to be used as a race application (seriously though, not just mess around like this guy probably wants to do) or just for show or the damn heck of being the first guy to do so or some other weird similar reason. hell, my car is from the '88, and im just having the engine sent to a machine shop cuz none of the other owners ever did except to balance the rotating assembly, so its to my advantage, else i would have to worry about machining being done to it before and the engine probably having been machined too much to be of any more use.

posted by  Inygknok

Who cares about you or your friends shitty Civic? Learn to read, and shut up... you don't know anything. Learn something about value of actually increasing the performance on cars other than some shitty headers and cam gears. Until then you can go piss into the wind.

*Edit*
You're also not familiar with a forum. You're not having a conversation you dumbass. You're posting replys in a forum for somone to check. You speak to everyone when you post you dumbass.

posted by  DSMer

geez enough with the name calling.... seriously. This site should be rated M for mature so people like you wont ruin it by talking shit. :orglaugh: I mean really your saying I should learn how to read when I didnt mention anything about anyones friends civic, where did you read that, Oh thats right you didnt read correctly idiot. take your own advice and shut up. What do you think he's gonna do even if he does swap? get headers, exhaust ect. And that would be ^^INCREASING PERFORMANCE^^ right? I happen to know my fair share about cars and Im giving him my :2cents: , I dont need a lecture from some punk kid who probobly doesnt have ..... what kinda car do you have?. :mrgreen:

I dont know anything?>?> Take the time to read this mr.Flamer

The Honda B-series engine can be likened to the venerable small block Chevy. It has powered two generations of hot rodders and is still going strong for the domestic camp as the engine of choice for an amazing third generation. Conceived in the mid '50s, the small block Chevy is stronger than ever, pumping out more than 400 hp in the latest Corvette Z06. In racing, the mouse engine, as it's affectionately called, serves yeoman duty propelling the fastest Winston Cup cars and many classes of domestic drag racing to victory. Even though the engine's design is older than most of us and has a crude (by today's standards) pushrod OHV, two-valve head architecture, the latest variants of this engine have an impressive power density. It has always been popular to the performance crowd and has tremendous aftermarket support, the best for any engine ever made.

The Honda B-series engine is the import enthusiast equivalent to the small block Chevy. It has enjoyed tremendous popularity as the performance engine of choice for the Honda/Acura nut. Stock in the Acura Integra, del Sol Si and the Civic Si, the B-series is also a popular and very easy swap into the lightweight Civic, making the classic hot rod: a powerful engine swapped into the most compact and light chassis. Since the B engine was available even more widely in the Japanese domestic market (JDM), there's an abundance of relatively cheap used JDM engines imported here to serve as a base for hybrid Civic swaps or other build-ups.

The B-series has gone through an evolution of sorts. The final most developed version is the B18C5, the rare powerplant found under the hood of the Integra Type R. This variant of the B-series pumped out an impressive 195 hp in stock naturally aspirated form. This is an amazing feat of more than 100 hp per liter, more than some factory turbocharged and supercharged engines. The B16A, first found under the hood of the del Sol Si was the first production auto engine to produce more than 100 hp per liter.

Honda's superior engineering helps the B engine put out amazing levels of power from small displacements. The B is blessed with excellent combustion chambers of a pentroof design, featuring a shallow included angle. This helps efficiency, as a shallow included angle has a lower surface-to-volume area to insure that more heat energy is used to drive the piston rather than heat the water jacket. The intake and exhaust ports, as well as the valves, are generously sized and contoured correctly for excellent flow right out of the box. Many variants of the B engine also have generous quench zones in the cylinder head to help improve combustion stability by improving fuel-air mixing and turbulent combustion.

The big B also features a lightweight die cast aluminum block with strong semi-girdled main caps and a fully counterweighted high alloy steel forged crankshaft. Forged high alloy steel rods with large bolts and generous caps combined with an excellent oiling system make bottom end failure on these engines almost unheard of.

Although many import engines from the established Japanese car makes like Nissan, Mitsubishi and Toyota share some or all of these excellent traits, Honda still has an ace up its sleeve with its wonderful innovation, VTEC. VTEC is what sets the B engines apart from other production engines. Short for Variable valve Timing with Electronic Control, it's Honda's system that combines the smooth idle, decent low-end power, good fuel economy and low emissions of a stock cam with the top end charging, high-rpm power of a nearly full-race cam. VTEC has none of a race cam's disadvantages like poor idle quality, total lack of low end power, poor part throttle driveabilty, poor fuel mileage and hydrocarbon rich tailpipe effluent.

The short-duration, low-lift, low-rpm cam lobes activate the intake and exhaust valves at partial throttle and low rpm, but when you boot it, the high-rpm, high-lift, long-duration center lobe is activated and the engine really sings. The high-rpm lobe has a lift and duration close to that of a full race cam, allowing VTEC-equipped B engines to rev to astronomical limits, like 8000 to 9000 rpm in stock form.

Unfortunately, the year 2001 was the production swan song of the mighty B engine. But fear not Honda fans. The B's easy availability on the used market and the tons of aftermarket support for this engine family will ensure the engine's longevity in the world of import performance. Most of the B engine's parts interchange between variants, making all sorts of interesting power and displacement combinations possible. This interchangeability also increases the used parts pool considerably. I'd bet many of these engines will be hopped up many years from now as hot rod projects for some of us when we retire, much like the small block Chevy is the engine of choice for the aging baby boomers retirement project T-Bucket.

The first of the popular B engines were the B18A (1990-1993) and B18B (1994-2000), commonly known as the "LS " engine (they were standard equipment for the LS Acura Integra from 1990 to 2000). These engines feature a bore of 81mm and a stroke of 89mm for a displacement of 1835cc and a compression ratio of 9.2:1. These engines pumped out 140 hp, an impressive amount of power for the displacement even today. LS engines don't have the much-desired VTEC but respond well to mods. The LS enjoys plenty of aftermarket support and are cheap and plentiful in junkyards for those wishing to make a low-buck but potent hybrid Civic. With the long 89mm of stroke, these engines are known to put out more torque than your average Honda.

The first of the VTEC B engines was the B17A1, making its appearance in the 1992-1993 Integra GS-R. This somewhat rare engine featured a 81mm bore with a 81.4mm stroke for a displacement of 1678cc and a compression ratio of 9.7:1. This first use of VTEC in a U.S. domestic market Honda four-cylinder pumped out an impressive 160 hp. Strangely, this engine was smaller than the base LS Integra engine. Why Honda/Acura chose to do this is beyond us. The B17A1 head on the B18A1-B1 bottom end would've been awesome.

The next VTEC B engine to hit our shores was the small but mighty B16A2-A3 which powered the 1995 to 1999 del Sol Si VTEC. The mighty mite featured a 81mm bore with a short, high revving 77mm stroke. With 1587cc of screaming power and a high 10.2:1 compression, the little B16A pumped out 160 hp, making it the first mass produced naturally aspirated engine to put out more than 100 hp per liter. In 1998 to 2000 the B16A also powered the mighty sixth-generation Civic Si. The closely related, almost identical or JDM B16A was available in Japan on many vehicles from 1989 to 2000, making this a fairly common and cheap engine in the import junkyards. The JDM B16A is an ideal engine to drop into your third to sixth generation Civic to give it a fairly economical VTEC fix. The JDM B16A head can also be grafted onto non-VTEC B engines to convert them to VTEC fairly cheaply.

In mid 1993, the Integra GS-R was given a greater power fix in the form of the highly desirable B18C1. This VTEC engine featured an 81mm bore and an 87.2mm stroke and a high 10:1 compression ratio, resulting in 170 hp. The import junkyard available JDM B18C1 was almost identical but had a higher 10.6:1 compression and made 180 hp. Not only do these engines have a ton of aftermarket support, they also drop right into most third- to sixth-generation Civics with little modification to create a very potent machine. In a lightweight Civic, it's possible to have a docile car that grandma could drive with factory-like reliability and fuel economy that can rip off a high 13-second pass at the strip. In 1997, the B18C5 was introduced in the limited production Integra Type R. This engine pumped out an incredible 195 hp right from the factory. The differences between the B18C1 and the B18C5 are more than you would think. The B18C5 has an open combustion chambered head with little quench, much like the B16A, with the same intake manifold port and bolt configuration as the B16A. The head is hand ported at the factory by Honda technicians. The C5 has a simple intake manifold with larger shorter runners and a larger plenum chamber. The engine also has a very high 11:1 compression with cams featuring higher lift and longer duration. The valve springs have been redesigned for these cams. The exhaust manifold is a fabricated stainless steel tubular header. The good news is these hotter factory parts will interchange along the entire B-series family line.

Perhaps the best and most popular use for a B engine is to be dropped into a small and lightweight Civic. This is especially cool and easy in third to sixth generation Civics. Hasport makes engine swap kits to make these conversions a relatively simple weekend project. A slightly warmed over B engine in a Civic, especially a light third- to fifth-generation Civic, has the potential to be a low-buck giant killer.

posted by  jzxTT

I'll do me favor and not read all of that crap. I don't care what you have to say, nor do I care about your shitty civic and dyno queen 300ZX. I think my signature says it all about your opinions...

posted by  DSMer

You're an Idiot for not reading before posting. You're just making yourself look stupid. :orglaugh: . I dont have a civic smart guy. I never said I had a civic .. did I ... nope, because I dont. And did I ever say my opinion mattered? No I did'nt, but i will feel free to state it whenever i please, FYI I never had my Z dynoed but it'd eat anyones car that YOU know. But thats besides the point. You would'nt know what anyone would swap into a civic. my knowledge of the B series engine is far more superior than yours. your quote above just proves that you're ignorant. Go look in the mirror, cuz thats the only p u s s y you'll ever get to see KID .

posted by  jzxTT

:sleep:
"Blah Blah Blah, I have more knowledge about a B series!"
Thats great, although we were not discussing your knowledge of engines :screwy:

"I've never had my Z dynoed but I specifically posted 600HP and I can whup anyones ass that you know, and I'm going out on an assumption here becuz you might know a top fuel dragster. But thats ok my 300ZX can surely beat it...(so long as its slower than 12-13)"
Ha.Ha. Alright Racer boy, chill out. Would'nt want the badass Z32 to push a 10 on me.

"I did'nt say my opinion matter!"
Even though we all know that stating your crappy opinions means that you believe it to be of some importance but I'll ignore that

"Yeah man you're a pssy so look in the mirror cuz thats all you'll ever see, and thats as close to witty comment as my last firing nuerons will allow me to make. Oh did I forget to say KID in big underlined letters(becuz we all know big underlined letters really get the point across and make you look like that much more of a badass)."
I suppose you're going to say you can kick my ass next?

"Oh yeah buddy you're ignorant and would'nt know what to swap into any Civic(Not that I would care, its a civic its shitty.) did I forget to mention ur a pssy! Oh yeah I'll whup your ass with my bad ass 300ZX"
Again, I don't care about you or your shitty Integra(happy?). Obviously any smart guy would have possibly bought a better car than a damn Integra or 300ZX since you like racing so much. Possibly a Camaro, instead of your 300ZX. Shit how about a DSM(wich is what I drive in case you could'nt tell from my name) But lets not go there since you have soiled yourself... I suppose you would like to talk about my mother next? :laughing:

I'm going to bed, if you should feel the need to talk any more about you "extreme racer" 300ZX or call me any more sexually oriented names that are well beyond your recognition... with diagrams. Or tell me how big and bad your 300ZX is, and how much WHP it has. You can feel free to post and take recognition in the fact that I won't do you the favor of reading it or any other copy/paste articles you have on the B series honda engine..

posted by  DSMer

You've officially proven to everyone that you're an idiot. Im done, I hope you've enjoyed proving absolutely nothing, except the fact that I am right and you are wrong. :thumbs: :clap:

posted by  jzxTT

its not the first time hes done it, and i can bet $100 it wont be the last time.

dsmer, u just really really really really need to relax and start acting like a young adult, cuz thats wat u are. if im not mistaken u are 16 years old, and even though its normal for a person at that age to be obnoxious every now and then (hell, even those above 40 can be obnoxious at times), u still take the piss a bit too far. if someone has an opinion, then let them have it, u dont have to whine about it and call your super car packing friends that lend you their 800rwhp cars and bet with them.

u should really consider taking some vacations and go and meditate or something..... i dunno. or go on a candy-free diet. thats getting u too grumpy again. do you PMS every week or u just really need to b***h at someone every few days?

posted by  Inygknok

almost everything you say is based on your opinion. When you post an answer to someones question, 9 times out of 10 its your opinion. I can speak for everyone with any common sense when I say that I think before I speak, therefore I care about what I say. Every body's :2cents: matters, thats why people post questions, to have second opinions If their not sure. So according to DSMer I guess we're all morons, because our opinions matter. Wheres the CF Pimp Slapper. :laughing:

posted by  jzxTT

WTF are all ya'll ladies arguing about?! People let's take it down a notch.

Okay now that i said that. Nice yellow Evo. If you have one like that that is. And nice black integra. AND it depends where hes getting the engine from. U eva heard of Buschur Racing? They dont sell honda/acura engines so dont worry about it 4 u. But to all DSM owners they are god's gift to us. $4,000 can get you alot of things you need and it'll give u a big power increase but if the engine he has will break down with the mods than that 4 gs coulda been put into a new engine. Is the one he's looking at bulletproof? 4,000 is tooo much for that damn engine though. I got a engine coming to me for $3,500 that's forged and knife-edged balanced and the works. Once i get it i could stick a damn 20g in it turn up the psi and drive that bad boy to Walmart no prob.If this guy'll have to get the pistons and the ENTIRE valve job and the rods and all that crap it's not worth it. First u gotta take out the block clean it up and check it for EVERYTHING. Cracks, pressure test it and everything. cuz u might have some lil hole that once u get 26 psi of pressure on turns into a friggin rod half way through the firewall and a valve retainer in the backseat. If u need to get an overhaul then the enine is scrap metal. thats about 900 and u'll ruin it very fast. Something u can do though is get another stock engine for the car and keep the cylinder head and get THAT overhauled and thats only a couple hundred. and then u can work on bullet proofing the blck and u'll have urself a bad ass ride. But dont come to the chicagoland area with that though. Cuz u might run into a hunter green 91 eclipse with 640whp under his hood and he might just embarrass you.....

posted by  VMJYogi

A 300zx beat anything? Even if it has 600hp, there is always something faster. Go to Japan, take on 1000+ skylines, then you talk. Or take on 700+ muscle cars. My :2cents: anyways. But DSMer does have to calm down a bit. The last time i replied to him, he was b*tching at me like crazy. :wink2: But, its ok, everyone has their off-days.

posted by  aerith

or in his case, every day :D


anyhow.... just to correct jzxtt on something. the most advanced b18 engine is the C7, not C5. puts out around 220 hp or so. a search in google will clear that up.

also, why did u swap a b16 into ur integra instead of getting another b18?

posted by  Inygknok

I was trying to be a smart ass and basically say that all his friends, friends cars are crap and his lac of knowlegde obviously ment that he had no friends that knew anything that could teach him and blah blah blah.. oh ya and I'm big and bad *was*. But we all get into our little flames every once in a while. DSMer is actually a cool guy. :smoke:
BTW: I got the B16 for really cheap. like 1k with tranny ecu ect.

posted by  jzxTT

hehe yea, dsmer is a good kid, just needs to tone it down a bit. i know how he feels, the strong urge to be an ass, i do the same thing with everyone, and throwing pepsi cans at the ceiling fans in math class was a blast (19 year old doing that sounds childish, but hey, gotta put the ADHD to good use :D)


also, how did u manage to get the b16 completely for such a low price? alot of mileage? some things missing?

posted by  Inygknok

well I told my friends about my integra I had just bought and I asked If anyone had a good engine to replace the stock engine. One of my friends let me take the b16 out of his 89 hatch (with of course a grand cash) because he had just bought a scion xa or xb (the boxy one), because it would just be sitting there. I took what I needed Got the mounts ect and there you have it a b16 integra that wont pass smog. but I love it. :smoke:

posted by  jzxTT

Best choice for any swaped civic will always be the b18a/b with a turbo setup. Most power and it's cheap.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Best swap for civic hatchbacks are B16s. No one really swaps b18a's. Not people with civics. B18b would be a good swap, B18c is the best. And unless its a newer engine you dont want turbo. BTW any b16 comes with 160hp and so does the b18a. I take it you dont have a civic.

posted by  jzxTT

You can get B18a/b's for next to nothing. Brand new you can order them for $800-$1000. B16a1 is $1500-$1600. I have many friends with swaped civics. I would never own one. Too small. The b16a1 and B18a/b dont have the same power. The b18a/b doesnt have 160hp like the b16a1..but rather 135/140hp. But you get torque over the little b16a1 and it's half the price. Plus the B18a/b series come with REALLY low compressions stock. So you can actually boost them without having to change the internals (unless of course you want to get into the teens for boost level...over 12-13psi). Not so with the B16a1. You'd be lucky to get 8psi without eventually blowing something up. On top of that you'd be spending the same money for a turbo setup on both engines and getting less power out of the b16a1 due to boost level which means now the b18a/b is not only cheaper by still a good $500-$1000 but is now much more powerful. You can go the N/A route and get the 170/180hp B18c1 for $3300 or you could spend $2500 modding on the b18a/b and get 270+hp with a turbo setup and it be about the same price as the B18c1 and have nearly 80% more hp and easily 100%-150% more torque. Don't even try boosting the B18c1 over 7psi. It WILL blow up without a complete piston/rod change to lower the compression.

Now, I want you to guess which of my friends swaped civics are the fastest and also spent the least money on. Nope, not the b16a1's or b16a2's. Nah, not the B18c1s or the b18c5. Nope, not even those lovely B20z block and b18c1 head motors. Yup, it's the turboed b18a/b motors. Best you try and not school me on Hondas. I grew up with them and work on them weekly at shops helping out. Even then, it seems like you don't have a clue on Honda motors thinking the 'b16' (which there are many different b16 levels) has 160hp (which is true on the b16a1 and b16a3...the b16a2 has the hydralic tranny and 170hp...not counting the b16b CTR motor of old, which had anywhere from 185hp-200hp) and the b18b having that same power..which it doesnt...it has 140hp.

posted by  thunderbird1100

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