engine swap rb20det? sr20det?

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hey im looking to swapping a new engine in my 91 240sx will an s13 sr20det redtop be better than the rb20det? which will go faster?which will be easier about how fast will each go on a qm? whats the top speed? note: stock engines.....and which can hold more hp? i did some research and it came up about equal but the rb would be harder to put in some ssay the sr would be harder please help

posted by  Corey

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I could be wrong, but I've seen this question asked at least a half-dozen times. Do a search.
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posted by  BavarianWheels

Hey, I would go with the SR20DET because its better then the RB20 in a 180sx/240sx The SR20DET will provide about 220HP and Stock on 1/4 mile will get ya around 14.3 seconds... redline about 7500rpm... whoever said that the SR20 is harder to put in mustn't know to much because it's really easy... the 1997 180sx comes with SR20... so yeah i reckon you should go the SR20 :thumbs:

posted by  patchy

Well for starters. You should be a little more precise on what you definition of "better" is. Theres no telling wich engine will give you the highest top speed. There are alot more things than HP that will determine your top speed. As far as easier, they are both pretty handfull swaps. I would'nt exactly call any engine swap that directly bolts in, or uses custom brackets, any harder or easier than another engine swap. You're still taking out the engine completley in the first place. So if you're looking for something easy, maybe swapping is'nt for you.

Now what I can help you with is that the USDM motor allready in your 240SX, or one that can be bought for a fairly cheap price is more efficient on the quartermile than the SR20DET. The KA24DE(T), when turboed, will pull faster trap times than an SR20-T swap. So if drag racing is your thing, then you'd be better off keeping the motor you have in your car and turboeing it. Its going to be alot easier, cheaper, and more efficient for quartermile purposes to keep the motor you allready have and turbo it.

So unless you're into some kinda autocrossing or drifting, you'd be best to stay with your current motor and start looking for a turbo solution. Better fuel injectors, fuel pump, and a high-flow 2.5-3" exhaust.

posted by  DSMer

Actually the KA24De turbo kits start at around $3,500 for the better ones, and $4500-$5500 with internals. You can get an SR20DET for $1500, comes with 205hp stock (S13) and can hold pretty massive amounts of power on stock internals. For the $3,500 it takes to turbo the KA24De, you could have a 450-500hp SR20DET. That's why so many people swap it :)

posted by  thunderbird1100

Hmm... Its common misconceptions like this that lead people to believing that SR20 swaps are in someway "cheaper", then they turn out costing well over $3,000. First of all an SR20 cost $1500 at minimum. Not to mention shipping, so we'll just round that to $2000. Installing will cost arround another $600-$800 even if he does it himself. So you tell me how can you push a 210HP motor to 450-500 with $400-600 bucks? You obviously lack the knowledge of what this swap entitles, else you would'nt be making such ludicrous statments.

No need to reply with any statments giving quotes on various products and stuff you found offline. Save me and you the trouble of embarassment. For I have performed one of these swaps, walked through the whole buying process, and was there to oversee every single operation of it. Oh and the K24 runs a 9:2:1 compression, it may not be the best to run a turbo, but he would'nt need any internals, unless he planned on running some serious boost. Not to mention GReddy makes a $2600 turbo kit, so obviously someone has not done their reasearch on "good turbo kits".

Oh and the reason so many people swap SR20 is because they are in fact misinformed, just like you. They would like to use their car for a drift application, wich tends to work very well. Or they want to enter car shows and shiny red top SR20's look cool and get more points for show cars.

Haha $3500 to get 500HP, well I know you've never gotten a car to that much power let alone driven one with that much power. Not making statements like that. Trust me, 500HP takes alot more than just $3500. If it was that easy there would be more 500HP 240SX's arround now would'nt there?

posted by  DSMer

$1500 is for the complete motor...shipping wont be much over $200-$250 pending you know WTF you're doing. Install is, like you said, between $600-$800. Sorry to say, but iI have NOT been misinformed. How many 400-500hp Ka24de's have you seen? I've seen, Zero. I've seen (with my own two eyes), about 4 400-500hp SR20's. One major advantage the Sr20 has over the Ka24De is it's redline, more oppurtunity to get more boost without the KA falling on it's face at 6000. I can't find this Greddy turbo kit (with the RD06-SH, a bit big for this application to begin with...) for under $3k. Matter of fact http://www.turbo-kits.com/240SX_turbo_kits.html there it is $3200, and only gives you 220rwhp (and that's their CHEAPEST kit, Id much rather the FMAX with the T3/04e..not to mention the Greddy kit doesnt even come with a INTERCOOLER). A stock $1500 SR20DET will yield you with at least 175rwhp and you can make up the difference in 45rwhp with 3" piping all the way back and a Boost Controller ($500 if you spend your money right). You didn't even mention installation of the Turbo kit, which shops usually charge AT LEAST $300 for that.

So let's tally this up....

SR20DET -
$1500 - motor
$250 - ship (assuming your local shop doesnt have it)
$800 - install (notice im using max for all this, my shop charges $600 for all SR20 swaps into 240's becuase it's so easy).

Total : $2550

Greddy Turbo Kit -
$3200 - kit
$30 - ship
$300 - install

Total : $3530

Looks like a grand more to me... And that Greddy price probably won't fluctuate more than $300 (will go drastically UP considering you would probably WANT an Intercooler if you are in a good state of mind), if you install it yourself, but the Sr20DET swap (Since its VERY easy), will flucuate up to $1050 less pending you dont have to ship it (which around here we dont) and install it yourself. Now, AGAIN you see why so many people swap SR20DET's in their 240's.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Again, here goes that ignorance arrogant issue. You're only expressing what you THINK you know. I said not to elaborate, you'd just make yourself look like a dumbass. Go post exactly what you just did in a 240SX forum. Tell them that you plan on spending that much money max on a SR20 swap, tell them thats the reason people swap is because its cheaper. Then come back here and tell me how they laughed at you and critisized you.

Again, you have very little valid imput upon this subject. You have never done this swap, I have. Stop debating with me. I don't care what you say. I did'nt even read all of that. Your logic reasoning can't compare to a person who has actually done it.

posted by  DSMer

I posted plain and simple facts backed up by links. Don't like it? Not my issue, deal with it. (BTW- I may not have hands on done it but I've seen parts of it done... not that it matters at all in this case, being irrelevant).

posted by  thunderbird1100

As I have stated before, there are 3 version of the sr20det. And a personal attack on thunderbird1100 for his person view point isn't warranted.

For a start, In Australia, New Zealand and Japan. Very few people bother with the KA24. Why would you? ok .4ltr different. But the stroke is too long to be a high reving motor. I rev my sr20det to 9,000 rpm. It makes good power all the way to the red line. KA24 was design by nissan as a family car engine which happened to end up in the US 240sx. KA24 powers some OLD nissan family cars. IF you are after the CC. ditch the KA24 and buy a rb26dett.

Another disagreement by DSMer is the KA24 is better on the 1/4 mile. IF my sr20det power s15 siliva can keep up with a 650rwhp + Supra easy (Measured on Dyno dynamix which measure 15% lower then Dyno Jet used in US) Then the sr20 must have some power down the 1/4.

Here are some FACTS for you
http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=6
There all street cars. No one bothers with the KA24 in Oz, NZ or even in Japan. Parts for the sr20 are so easy to come by.

But back to the question, the Rb20det vs sr20det. The rb20det with its extra cylinder does help, but again it depends on which SR20DET you buy.

posted by  57ock

18psi to 20psi with Sr20det Black top VVT SR20DET with intercooler and 3" exhaust, fuel pump & fuel reg & drilled injectors is common place to be pumping out 200 RW kWS That's 260rwhp. not a bad effort for a 2ltr. I have even seen sr20det pumping out 215rwkws at 20psi with factory turbo. Thats a massive increase from the Oz s15 200sx which comes with 100rwkws from factory. 147kws @ fly is around 200hp. You just doubled the HP with a few modifications.

posted by  57ock

As I have stated before, there are 3 version of the sr20det. And a personal attack on thunderbird1100 for his person view point isn't warranted.

What personal attacks? If he was wrong he was wrong, its not my fault he has been misinforned, just ast you have been.

For a start, In Australia, New Zealand and Japan. Very few people bother with the KA24. Why would you? ok .4ltr different. But the stroke is too long to be a high reving motor. I rev my sr20det to 9,000 rpm. It makes good power all the way to the red line. KA24 was design by nissan as a family car engine which happened to end up in the US 240sx. KA24 powers some OLD nissan family cars. IF you are after the CC. ditch the KA24 and buy a rb26dett.
This is a buch of irrelivant b/s. Saying that people in Japan do not bother with KA24's is YOUR opinion. You don't know everyone in Japan, and you sure has hell don't know anything about drag racing. High reving, pfft there are cars that produce more output than you'd ever achieve and stay under 4000RPM. Oh but because your car as a 9000RPM redline your engine is better?

Another disagreement by DSMer is the KA24 is better on the 1/4 mile. IF my sr20det power s15 siliva can keep up with a 650rwhp + Supra easy (Measured on Dyno dynamix which measure 15% lower then Dyno Jet used in US) Then the sr20 must have some power down the 1/4.
Since when has the engine in one persons car, deem the validity of that engine?
Do you even know how many SR's are running 10's?

How many KA-T's are running 10's? Well theres a couple in Florida...

The KA-T is suited for dragging because its bulletproof, its powerband is suited towards dragging, and its easily avalibe for parts.
A Turbo kit can easily be made with a Turbonetics turbo, a spearco I/C and piping. In fact, many kits are currently avalible.

The SR20 is suited towards non-straghit line driving because its powerband is lower-down where you need it. Most SR's are running 12-14.5's in the 1/4 with the modded ones running 12's. This is because the SR20s powerband combined with the gearing make it ill-suited to drag.


Here are some FACTS for you
http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=6
There all street cars. No one bothers with the KA24 in Oz, NZ or even in Japan. Parts for the sr20 are so easy to come by.

Again I will stress this one more time, maybe you slow kids will catch it. The KA-T is the motor to drag race with. The SR-T is the motor to autocross or drift with.

Another example of "those special people". If you somehow believe that the displacement of an engine determines all on the track, you're even less inept of a brain than I orginally thought you were. Again, if you're gonna selectivley read my post then dont even bother trying to "correct" me with some bullshit ass reasoning like "My car has and Sr20 and it can keep up with a Supra" Hell my car has a 4G63 it can also keep up with a Supra... Does that mean the 4G63 should be throw into a 240SX?

posted by  DSMer

Unfortunately you knowledge on this matter is very limited. To a point you seem to be obtuse and injudicious. You clearly don't understand the fundamentals of turbocharged cars.

First of all due to your very limited and OBTUSE knowledge.

"Do you even know how many SR's are running 10's?"
In Queensland, there are 7 10 second or better sr20 powered cars. Thats one state with 1/4 the population of Florida. Lots more others in Australia & New Zealand. And vast numbers in Japan. A lots of Sr20 cars here don't bother with NOS, yet they can still run 10 second 1/4 miles

"The SR20 is suited towards non-straghit line driving because its powerband is lower-down where you need it."

Once again you have proven yourself to be total obtuse :banghead: I have never seen anyone to stupid in my life. :banghead: You have no idea about modifications. First of all. apart from that fact you have NO idea what your talking about. And your a bloody idiot. So let me tell you the basics which YOU have NO idea about.

1st of all, for lamers such as yourself.
A KA24 T with a factory s15 sr20det turbo will NOT run a 10 1/4 mile. The KA would have better low down power due to its extra CC. IF you install a Garrett GT3540 turbo which is rated around 700hp. The turbo will spool around 5,000 rpm with factory Sr20 internals. So in EXTRA simple terms for a person of limited intelligence. IF you want a 10 second car without NOS, you need to run a larger turbo. Which increases the time it takes the turbo to spool. Hopefully you understand why a turbo with a larger compressor and turbine takes longer to spool. :banghead:

"Saying that people in Japan do not bother with KA24's is YOUR opinion. You don't know everyone in Japan"
I know a few people in japan. :wink2:

"A Turbo kit can easily be made with a Turbonetics turbo, a spearco I/C and piping. In fact, many kits are currently avalible."

Please visit this webpage below to see how VAST the range is for Sr20 parts.
http://www.takakaira.co.jp/
Once again your knowledge in Japanese aftermarket equipment is very limited.

So please, you clearly have no idea, go back to your magazines or Fast N Furious videos. I have never read so much crap in my life. Your mudda must be proud :banghead:

posted by  57ock

Personally I really couldn't be bothered wasting my time with your ludicrous & preposterous remarks. If there is a fund to help people with your mental disability. PLEASE tell me, I'll give a large donation

posted by  57ock

I'll write a banner. Please donate to the DSMer fund. Keep mental patience in a secure mental institution. :mrgreen:

posted by  57ock

What the hell? Your post left me more confused than it did inform. So if I'm getting this correctly? You are telling me that a KA with a stock S15 turbocharger will not run 10's? Where in the hell did you even get that from?

Again, if you're going to selectively read my post don't even bother to "correct" me. It seems that you have nothing but space between your ears, because you seem to think that because a few people in Queensland that can make some cars with SR20's pull 10's its automaticly a great drag motor. Sure any car can do 10's but the KA-T will pull 10s relativley cheaper, easier, and more efficiently. I allready explained why the Sr20 is better for race applications and the KA24 is better for bracket racing with simple facts. If you refuse to learn what you never knew in the first place, thats ignorance on your part. Not mine.

Personally, I can't take you serious. Go to a D1GP tournament, when you get to an autograph table. Ask all the 180SX/240SX drifters how fast would their car be on the 1/4rth. I garauntee you it won't be anywhere near a 10, possibly, but highly unlikely. I have many Drift events arround my area, and many drag strips. I also have many friends who happen to use my garage to modify their cars. So I can safley say that I've built more Sr20 drifting applications than you've probably seen. Oh yes and the ones who come to my garage to bracket race do run KA-T motors. One of them uses an Sr20, but only because he drifts and bracket race. For some odd reason, the KA-T motors seem to pull almost second better lap times than a comparatively equipped Sr20. Oh no thats not strange, its simple performance applications. That kinda thing I paid to learn in a school.

Unlike you Mr. My Japneese friends have Sr20's. NO SHIT THEY LIVE IN JAPAN! Quarter mile times is something that Americans concieve as speed. People in Japan, Austrailia, and Europe like to believe in track numbers, top speed, and handling wich is why none of them bother with KA-T motors. Damn, do you know anything about cars or culture?

posted by  DSMer

Oh I forgot you know more about Australia then I do.. ohhhh sorry about that :) Mate, you really need help.. :banghead:

posted by  57ock

he may not be there but he is a smart man....he has actually been hands on with theese engine.....my advice is to stop arguing and take notes....

posted by  Corey

Take notes that he has no fark idea. I have!!! The guy has no idea about culture. He thinks he's a tour guide. Yet he has no idea about Australia.
You say he has hands on, damn his knowledge is so damn limited its a joke.

A factory s15 runs a low 14. 3" exhaust would can get a 13.4. Seen that done a few times. If you want a s15 to be quick on the 1/4. large turbo is needed which increases lag. In addition you'll need internal work. A drift car you need a long powerband. So the turbo can't be too laggy.

Once again you think you know everything about Australia. Maybe you should fly down here and take a look as you clearly have no idea.

If DSMer can't make a sr20 hit 10's easy, then I think DSMer should give up on motors. :smoke:

posted by  57ock

How many SR20 applications have you built? How man KA have you built? Please embelish me with your knowledge about 3" exhausts. Do you have any trap numbers to prove those "stats" posted above. Tell me why a drift car needs a wider powerband. Tell me exaclty what kind of power the engine produces during the drift, how about entering and exiting the drift? Please explian to me because you seem to know about it all. So embelish me with your vast knowledge and experience. Because you've yet to tell me anything other than your opinion, and you know what the say about opinions.

I invite you to tell me all about the phsyics and chemistry of SR20 motors compared to KA motors. About how they differ from each other, and explain to me what kind of motor would be good for drag racing. Also what kind is good for autocross and drifting. PLEASE tell me becuase you seem to know it.

posted by  DSMer

Well for a start, that just prove you have no idea. how can someone prove exactly how much power a engine produces during a drift..... Go use a dyno.

I'm sure I can find the scientific chemicial make up on the block. :mrgreen:

For a Japanese motor, 1.3ltr or 2.0ltr rotary. http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=2 and http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=3
O my :mrgreen:

keep on ya yadda, I'm enjoying it :mrgreen:

posted by  57ock

I hate to break it too you, but thats all you have informed me of. Your own opinion and ONLY your opinion.

"Again I will stress this one more time, maybe you slow kids will catch it. The KA-T is the motor to drag race with. The SR-T is the motor to autocross or drift with." That is your opinion :mrgreen:

So don't go on about opinions. You have proven nothing :)

posted by  57ock

No need to, you have fully proven my point. You have no experience, therefore you only know what you've read or heard of. You can't tell me how many applications you've built. You can't even explain why certain things are good for what they are without finding links to solely base your opinion. Hell you can't even properly distinguish between total power output, and "types" of power applied to the wheels in a certain situation.

You don't know enough about the particular subject at hand, because you lack the experience or know-how of the topic. Thank you for further proving my original thoughts.

posted by  DSMer

Tis a shame when someone thinks they know it all, yet have no idea. Tis a shame indeed.

You have proven nothing apart from your own personal opinion. Which is amusing :) KA24 is a boat anchor. And you head is a waste of space :mrgreen:

You can't even admit the sr20 is a good motor for drag racing. and so many cars run 10's with them... end of story.

if u cant accept that, then please go seek counseling..

posted by  57ock

You're still at this? You can continue your childish semantics, or you can accept fact and proof from valuble experience. You were giving opinions(because you don't know anything abou the motors), I was given truth from experience. See the difference? But I guess in your "childish-know-it-all" mind state, you're not willing to accept something you don't even know about. So failure to learn what you never knew is'nt shame on my part, its ignorance on yours.

Please, do not put words in my post. Need I not admit anything. The SR is not a good trap racer. If you wanna proove to me why, other than using examples as "I know people running 10's" or "I've read etc.."; I fully invite you to. You still have yet to answer my questions of anything regaurding to your man hours on autocross, drift, and drag-race applications. Simply because you have none. So please, don't try and pull the "You hav'nt proven anything routine" (because I'm assertive that someone rolling through these forums read my post followed up the information and actually learned something valuble about the two motors). Just because you're to stubborn and ignorant to accept the truth, does'nt mean somone else has'nt.

Again, when you get some experience. Your opinion will be valid. Until then, keep bench and mag racing, because thats all the experience you have now.

posted by  DSMer

You haven't proven anything. YOU say your a hot shot. But you can't prove it. So give it up :) Sr20 is a good engine for drag racing. It's proven and a fact.

So the day you finally learn and understand the concepts of turbocharged cars. Maybe the better. :screwy: Which proves you have VERY limited experience.

Far more limited then someone who races sr20det powered cars for the last 6 years.

posted by  57ock

You're still at it? Damn you Aussies never shut up. I don't care what you race. You say its a well known fact, so where is the fact? Go back a few post....

"The KA-T is suited for dragging because its bulletproof, its powerband is suited towards dragging, and its easily avalibe for parts.
A Turbo kit can easily be made with a Turbonetics turbo, a spearco I/C and piping. In fact, many kits are currently avalible.

The SR20 is suited towards non-straghit line driving because its powerband is lower-down where you need it. Most SR's are running 12-14.5's in the 1/4 with the modded ones running 12's. This is because the SR20s powerband combined with the gearing make it ill-suited to drag."

I believe I explained it in simple terminology. KA-T has a drag racing powerband, and the SR20 has a lower torque power band. THOSE ARE FACTS. Where are yours?

You just don't wanna listen do you. Look a the dynocharts for a KA-T compared to an SR20. If you know anything about racing you'll see that the SR20 revs a hell of alot faster than a KA. The SR20 has a hell of alot better lower torque and lower torque is what is best when going through autocross turns and coming out of corners. Not to mention the SR20 is an aluminum block so it will give you a better weight distribution in racing. HOWEVER, being aluminum prevents it from having the strenght and durability that an iron block KA motor will have.

What you need to understand is this is a predominantly American forum. Our cars come with KA24's stock. Where as yours come wiht SR20's. It only makes sense for you to keep the original motor in the car and just work with that as many people don't usually export USDM motors. Its also very likley that because you've never experienced a KA24's power, you don't know what they are capable of and you are most likley biased towards them. Yes it is possible for an SR20 to run 10's, yes there are alot of parts, yes the motor is more powerful in stock form than the KA24. I'm not arguing that, I'm simply saying the KA24 is a better suited drag race motor.

The KA24 has a nice torque curve, wich is essential in drag racing. Hp does'nt is'nt going to help if you don't have torque. The SR20's torque curve is'nt that bad either, its just not as nice as the KA24s. The stock internals on a KA24 will handle roughly 500-700HP, Wich is a plus when trying to get as much HP and TQ as possible to get faster runs. Its only logical for you to think the SR20 is "better" and you can choose to think that. Many people have no faith or just simply don't know about the KA or don't care to know. Well I know, and I'm telling you. The KA24 will be the better of the two for drag racing, costwise, powerband wise, and legally IF you live in a country where the KA is offered as the normal engine.

Its as simple as it gets, almost all of the people on these forums are American. So for lack of better generelization, my statement stands. The KA24 motor is the better suited for drag racing..

posted by  DSMer

I seriously couldn't be bothered reading that. As I disgree with you anyway. You have your opinion and I have mine

posted by  57ock

The power of ignorance compells you.

posted by  DSMer

ok DSMer you are an idiot....

lets get this clear. SRs are good Drag motors all in how you set it up. the gearing in the SR tranny and the KA tranny are the SAME! as for prices of swaps form a show your looking at around 4800 for a full SR swap custom AC FMIC FUEL PUMP and AUTO -> Manual Swap... Black Top S13 SR20DET....

RB20 is about 1k less for the same thing...

KA-T is a verry good motor, but for some nice power you wnat a lower mileage motor.. so usualy the stock KA is not a good choice. Yes 3k for a greddy Turbo kits nets you about 250 WHP but thats onyl on 7psi.

Now the SR stock i belive is 7-10 psi for around 190 WHP...

KA is 9.5-1 appx
SR is 8.5 or 9 to i dont know off the top of my head right now

so the SR can handle more Boos Stock, there fore the cost of Upgrading the KA wiht interanals to handle more boost Is more by about 2k dollars. BUt by then you ahve already spent 6k and can fianly handle 20psi for the ka and a nice 450 whp appx.

The Sr is just popular right now becuse it is easy. both to do and to get parts.

Either motor is good it just depends on your purpose and tunning options.
and as always how much money do you want to spend for the power you are looking for.

posted by  x0dyssey

You're telling me this because? I allready know well more than you've explained. Your theory is very rice based, and your prices are wildy distorted. I have the reciepts and the bruised knuckles from this area or motors. I don't need someone of your stature to tell me why and how I should do etc...

posted by  DSMer

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