Import????*SPITS* drive american

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I have a question... Please tell me, Why you would put Fifty-Thousand dollars of work into a car(i.e. Body kits, Motors, Stand alone Engine management systems, Turbos, Nos...) that wont keep up with a moderately modified Big Block(i.e. Bored, Stroked, Cams, that there cost, with machine shop time, maybe Three grand at the absolute most, and if you really wanna beef it up some more a blower for two thousand. I have a Friend with a '60's Chevy step side(truck) with a 454B.B. with 3 speed automatic transmission in it pushin 400+ horsies that these little "tricked out" imports with all the above done to it cant touch. now why spend so much to get so little.. Cubic Inch(the size of the motor)..is the cheapest horse power..Bigger the number 296 305 350 454 500 more power stock..cheaper.
:screwy:

posted by  slap_stick454

You're an ignorant asshole. And I cannot wait to see what guys like DSMer and others say about this.

posted by  b_DuB13

Yeah, that sounds like fun. 3 gears must be soooo exciting.

posted by  What

You are a dumb shit. I hate it when people do this. They make dumb ass ingnorant remarks about "American Muscle" and then just fly away after puting down dumb shit about Imports. I have 3 letters for you: S, T, I. It may have only 300 hp, but it has way fewer wieght issues, as well as a bigger than 3 speed gear box. Get a life, and learn a thing or two about cars. If you think the STi is bad, try one letter and 2 numbers, like R34. Do some research and get a life. :banghead:

posted by  StiMan

I'll add four more letters to our cause... SCCA.


Last I checked Cubic Inches isnt the sole facter at ALL in deciding power.

Honda SOHC 3.5L(214Ci) V6 (N/A) - 300hp/260tq
GM OHV 3.8L(232Ci) V6 (N/A) - 205hp/225tq...Supercharged - 240-260hp/280tq
Ford SOHC 16v 4.6L(281Ci) V8 (N/A) - 260hp/300tq

Now, looks like that old Honda motor Has much bigger sixes and eights beat out on Horsepower and even some on torque. The GM 3.8 takes a SUPERCHARGER to make more torque than the N/A Honda 3.5 and still doesnt come close in horsepower. SO...what's your next theory?

posted by  thunderbird1100

i dont mean to be a jackass to the american muscle car fans here but i thought this was funny, sorry dodge.

http://car-forums.com/talk/attachment.php?attachmentid=416&stc=1

posted by  Ki2AY

He he he... thats funny, but kinda off the point, and I am not quite sure if it is true.

posted by  StiMan

i know its not true. just to show you how ignorant people are. whoever made tht picture should go at it with the thread starter.

posted by  Ki2AY

Hey YOU FORGOT THE FORD 302!!!

posted by  talongod33

First of all, leave the horsepower argument outta this, as lotus makes cars that barely break 200 but still do 0-60 in the 3/4 second range.

To answer your question, i think it's more about the image than the power. Personally, I think twin turbos is the second sexiest sound out there (Anna Kournikova on the court is #1), and I'd take that over some big block revving. The other posters here are right when they say that you are ignorant, but I give you kudos for asking instead of just talking sht about imports.

Also, sti man is right. Take the restrictor chip outta a R34, bored, stroked, and with new cams will get moving pretty quick.

One more thing, Nobody here would ever put 50,000 into a car just for performance unless they're professionally racing. At the very most, 10 grand for some insanely high pressure turbo kit.

Don't talk sht unless you can actually show some links to races between two cars, american&japanese with a 5 grand tuner limit, or some other reputable info.

posted by  Godlaus

It's about image but it's also about having a car YOU like, and most importantly, it's about something few drivers can ever fully understand.

When I look at a Corvette, I see one of the ugliest cars on the road (a comment that would get you shot in other forums). Their form is hideous, their backend has the flatest ass I've ever seen, and undoubtedly there's a guy with a bald spot driving it (through no fault of the car I should add). On the other hand, show me an RSX with a properly fitted body kit (read: professionally installed), a few nice performance mods, and I'll gladly take it for a spin.

That's just me, though. I know many domestic lovers would spit on it and call it weak, then rev their engines and bang their chests. Well guess what, I don't care! I know the vette could kick my ass. I'm pretty sure any car with 400hp could kick my ass! That's not what I'm concerned about though, because I'm not a professional racer, and have no intention of being one. I look at the car, and if I like it, I like it.

I realize the original poster was pointing out that you don't need to pay more to get a powerful ride, but that's the part few can understand. Modifying a car is a labor of love, and not only that, it's a lot of fun. In the end, my budget might only allow for 7g's worth of performance modifications, but I say again, I don't care. I don't plan on rolling up beside a lambo anytime soon. Heck, if I just wanted the strongest ride out there I'd throw all my cash into a sports car and be done with it.

Note: I do not condone people that "mod" cars through a huge exhaust and needless wing, thank you lol

posted by  Rane

I must say that this is one of the only posts ever made by noobs that is actually right in my opinion. Very Nice Rane! :thumbs:

posted by  StiMan

I prefer n00b thank you lol :)

posted by  Rane

Sooooooo..... Basically, can we all agree that it's different strokes for different folks?

posted by  Godlaus

And that the world is filled with ignorant dumbasses? Yes, atleast I think so. :thumbs:

posted by  StiMan

Very true, but I also wish we could drop the whole foreign vs domestic stuff, as though you can only like one or the other.

Right now I own a rather humble '03 4cyl Tiburon, and like I mentioned above, people are welcome to talk all the crap they like...that's my baby. I've been doing a little work to it, and am working on a turbo as we speak (which will lead to a "slightly faster piece of shit" as some muscle fans would say). When I hit 25 though, I plan on getting a stronger ride. Two choices come to mind.

The Subaru Impreza WRX STi (if every road were a quarter mile and completely straight, maybe the Evo would be better...)

or

The 2006 Dodge Charger

GASP! Am I actually thinking about purchasing a car made in the states? Is that possible?!?!

You get the idea lol

posted by  Rane

Can you retards not see anything? This guy just posted to rile you all up. He has only posted once and has probably left the forums for good, or is laughing at your reactions. Just ignore bitches like him. They will **** off eventually.

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

Hmm... for starters there are many ignorant people here and quite frankly I don't think this guy is the only one. Maybe if some of your self induldgant needle dicks would not have been so quick to jump on this guys ass like jockies and horses, you'd quickly realize that he in no way defames anyones taste or personal preference in cars. However if he as with any car guy should have to ask that question it would only lead me to question their validity as a real "car enthuisiast". Anywhos, your question is why.

I can only lead you to believe that the same reason you'd want a strokered, 305 with a large blower on it has to be the same reason someone would want a B18 with also a big blower on it. Also the $50,000 you refer to consist of more than just engine and suspension modifications. What you're thinking of is some sort of show car. I've never seen anyone drop 50 large into an engine alone and not drop 9's and at least 500 horses. I could just as easily ask you why don't some of thes hotrod gods go buy a Ferrari, Lamborghini, or McLaren. They have the money with their multi million dollar business, but why don't they? Because there is more fun and satisfaction in driving something that you created with your own hands. Be it a 427 Camaro burning holes at the smoke box, or a 4G63 Eclipse dropping 8 seconds.

Our group grew up arround imports, so therefore we buy imports. If I was raised by a father whom was heavily into muscle cars and domestics(wich I was) I would be highly interested in muslce cars(which I am). Its not about boasting high horsepower numbers, its not about how much displacement your block has, its not about where you car was designed and made, its not about how big your wheels are or how "pimp" your bodykit looks. Its about a personal connection between a guy and his car, that exist anywhere no matter what car you drive. Be it a shitty beater that you love, or a $160,000 Mercedes. True car guys are the ones who will mod their car if they are the last person on the earth. Simply knowing that your hard work and sweat went into creating your car. Of course it does'nt hurt to show the fruits of your labor every once in a while.

Just ast you like putting your pants on before your shirt, others like putting their shirt on then there pants. Theres no way to explain it, they just do it because they like it that way. I like imports, you obviously seem to like muscle cars. Thats just the way it is...

posted by  DSMer

...and here I'm all waiting for DSMer's scathing retort...and it doesn't look like it is coming...=(

posted by  R3LAPSE

Looks like he doesnt pick his fights that well. I dont blame him thouhg.

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

I'll add my 2c, as many people have definitely answered correctly so far...

Considering I was into sport compacts in the early '80s, I'll try to explain it...But there are a number of factors that brought it to where it is.

http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/Images/510-2-1.jpg

To start with, in the early '70s, when Japanese cars were making sales inroads in the US, American Musclecars were drag race only, with a few exceptions. And they were dying out. While big block muscle could be fun, there were a lot of us getting into SCCA racing, from road race, to rally, to autocross, all of which rewarded small, agile, light cars. A mildly modded Mazda RX3, Toyota Corolla, Datsun 510, or Honda Civic (which was the heir apparent to the world conquering Mini Cooper) could easily beat a mildly built musclecar in any contest of handling on real roads or on the track.

http://ns.netmcr.com/~mdouglas/civic1200/jimcox_honda3.jpg

And we were learning how to make them quick, as well. In the early '80s, my street ported RX3 was as quick as my big block Torino, and quicker than my '70 Mustang. And handled better than either of them.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/RX3.jpg

People also bought these cars as their daily drivers, and recommended them to friends. They were built better and more useful than the domestics of the day.

At the same time, in the '80s, high end European luxury cars were being seen as performance cars, with the AMG Mercedes leading the pack. DTM racers were desireable, but not everyone could afford it. Luckily, you could take a car like the 510 and it's replacement, the Sentra, and make it fast AND make it look like it was built by the same AMG type shop, with small ground effects kits, monochrome paint, and custom eurostyle wheels. The average economy minded student could have style and a bit of performance, while still having a practical car. Japanese cars also seemed to take up the reigns of the performance world, when Detroit all but abandoned it. Musclecars became simply poorly built old cars that cost a lot to make nice or insure, or they were outrageous Pro Street cars. And they were for old guys, like street rods were.

http://www.pre67vw.co.uk/desktops/images/drag_win.jpg

And yet another thread that was occuring at the same time... the custom VW scene was as large as any Camaro or Mustang aftermarket scene. it was HUGE for air cooled VWs. In fact, only the aftermarket for small block Chevy cars was larger. There were shows everywhere that were drag race and custom shows. 20k-30k people would come through the typical weekend gates at a VW show to see custom Bugs, and watch the drag Bugs running 10s and 11s, and the Pro Bugs running 9s. Even in the early '80s, a street VW bug was easily capable of 11s, which was fast even in the musclecar world. These guys also liked the quality and ability of the imports vs domestics of the day, and as the water cooled Rabbits and Sciroccos became more popular, moved to doing the same with them that they did with the Bugs.

http://vortex3.rely.net/gallery/albums//Events/Enthusiast/Waterfest/2000/15 2.jpg

This style translated well to the Japanese side. Since the sports car fans were big on rallye, F1, and road racing, small, high revving engines were preferred. Complex technology was desired, and Japanese cars delivered. Combine all these sources, and you get the modern sport compact: complex engines and electronic management, road race flares, spoilers, and wings, high revving engines (and the engine sounds DO sound like all the old 4 cyl road racers that started the craze.. when an RX3 or 510 is prepped for racing, it's friggin loud and actually rather annoying. But like learning what sounds good in a V8, fans learned what sounded like a fast 4 cyl. V8 vans still think it sounds bad, but to those who know what the fast cars sounded like, it's not necessarily a bad sound). Som of the fans lean more toward the performance side of the scene, while others lean towards the show side of the scene, which grew from the VW and mini truck background.

And if you really want to see where the modern version gets a lot of inspiration, look no further than the Touring Car road racing series.

http://www.mg-rover.org/articles/news/02_04/btcc_1.jpg

While musclecars tended to follow pro drag racing (and thus giving us Pro Street cars, which were street driven versions of themore radical drag racers) Sport compacts have followed road racing, throwing a bit of drag racing in for good measure, like the VWs did.

That, in a nutshell, is why we are where we are with modern sport compacts, and why people want to build them. And modern sport compact fans love vintage sport compact cars the same way modern musclecar fans love vintage muscle: even though modern cars are vastly better, the old school stuff is where it started.

http://www.netwiz.net/~tcar/images/bsedan.jpg

http://www.netwiz.net/~tcar/images/theo1.jpg



Of course a lot of fans of the sport compact scene really didn't pay attention to the musclecar scene, which with the advent of good electronic engine management, started to grow again, to the point where modern muscle is vastly more capable than '60s muscle in so many areas.

posted by  ChrisV

why?

The sti is faster in a straight line then the evo is;
0-60 mph: 4.8 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.2 sec @ 104 mph

Compared to
0-60 mph: 5.3 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.4 sec @ 103 mph

And the evos pull a .95g on the skidpad and the sti a .92g
The evo slaloms at 73.1mph and the sti at 69.1mph
it brakes faster than the STi (60-0 in 106ft compared to 111ft)

All this means that the STi would be the choice if roads were straight and a quarter mile long. The evos a better choice for twisty roads.

posted by  Zalight

ChrisV, where do you work?

Is it Car and Driver magazine, or maybe Behind the Headlights.

Because that post was worthy to be read by millions and sounded like it was off a automotive history show.

great post, and great display of automotive intelligence!

P.S.: im not being sarcastic, im actually sincere.

posted by  Zalight

Chris: Great post! Your posts are long, and very informative. Thanks again! :thumbs:

posted by  StiMan

Haha "Behind the Headlights". I'm watching the Kennedy Lincoln X100 limo episode now. No it sounds good because hes speaking from his experience. People of his time, whom were open minded, caught a bit of the Import and Domestic world.

However, I am not nearly old enough to have caught anything of the VW drag race world or anyone short of some 20 odd years to this date. While ChrisV has shown us why the import craze has come here it really depends on what appeals to you. As ChrisV has told us hes owned cars from Japan, Europe, and America. So he has an open mind to all sorts of cars.. There are people whom have never bought a foriegn car and don't plan on doing so. Treands are there, sure, but when it comes down to it, its what you want and what appeals to you.

posted by  DSMer

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