stick or auto

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which do you run
i now stick is better but how much better in terms of performance
i want a stick but with california traffic it will be a bithc to get around.

posted by  ArABONE

I have an auto, but loathe it.

posted by  Zalight

We are having the same sort of argument in this thread: http://www.car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?t=9214

posted by  GreekWarrior

I have a stick, but understand the concerns of traffic. I have a 20 minute commute to work that turns into an hour+ ride every single day (up and back), and clutching every three seconds is not exactly fun.

Still, it's a sacrifice I make (although I confess, I do have another car that's an auto, so on really bad days I can use that). When I'm not in traffic though, nothing beats the fun of shifting gears. And on a personal note, I always look at stick shift drivers to be a bit more...authentic, for lack of a better word.

I don't meant to offend anyone, but to me, a stick shift is for people who really want to drive their car, not just go along for the ride. I can't stand seeing a car that's in any way sporty that has an automatic transmission...makes me feel the owner cares nothing about driving, only image. But again, I'm not directing that to anyone here.

Actually, now that I think of it...I have a question about driving a stick shift in traffic. You typically have to creep your car at about 1mph most of the way, so coming off the clutch entirely is usually a bad idea. Does creeping like this do any serious damage to your clutch? I'd imagine any kind of friction is bad, but how can it be avoided?

posted by  Rane

get one of those cars with auto/shift manual :hi:

posted by  slvracurarsx03

Those cars are for ppl who cant drive stick. Stick is the only way to go unless you WILL be stuck in traffic every single day...but since I dont drive to work or drive to school...stick is the only way for me...and will be forever until they get rid of stick cars...which slowly they are doing.

posted by  NISSANSPDR

but it solves the problem when being in the traffic and u ll have much more control of the car :hi:

posted by  slvracurarsx03

GreekWarrior, is that Bunta Fujiwara reading the paper in your sig?

posted by  vicious

yea thats him why?

posted by  slvracurarsx03

It does save you a lot of trouble, but you still don't have quite the same control.

Eh, I guess in the long run it won't matter, since it seems like all cars in the US will be that way eventually :(

posted by  Rane

Because he looks really young. Which stage is that from?

posted by  vicious

Wwwwwhhhhhaaaaaattttt!!?!!?!?!!??!

posted by  slvracurarsx03

what, Wwwwwwwwwhhhaaaaaatttttt!!?!!?!!?!!??!

huh?

posted by  vicious

what are you talking about :banghead:

posted by  slvracurarsx03

You replied to my post answering my question that it was him, and why I was asking. I replied, "because he looks really young, what stage is that pic from". I've never seen him look so young on the show on the show so I assumed it was from some lost episode or something, which is why I asked in the first place. Get it? God I hate when I have to explain simple stuff.

posted by  vicious

:banghead: WHAT.....ARE......TALKING.....ABOUT? :banghead:

posted by  slvracurarsx03

Its more than alright. You're simply ignorant to the world of performance and cars. You might not know it just yet but manual transmissions are'nt what performance is all about. Not to offend you but you're a liar if you're going to honestly sit there and say you consciously shift your manual everytime you drive. Theres no way you'd be able to stare at your shifter in traffic everytime you shift because you would probably tap the person in front of you.

Traffic is'nt a fun place because you're constantly on and off the clutch. This not only causes wear and tear to your knees but also your car. There are thousands upon thousands of professional drivers and hobbiest that use automatic transmission and get more driving experience from there car than you ever would on any stop and go trip(wich is'nt driving my friend thats commuting).

Driving a car is about feeling the car and the road. Its the connection between your vehicle and you. Be it automatic or manual it does'nt matter. Real car enthuisiast can have fun in any car regardless to size, shape, or make. I'm sorry to say that you're not a real car enthuisiast if you can't appreciate a sports car with a manual transmission. You say people with autos are more concerned with image when in fact you're the one thats concerned with what people think about your manual car. A guy with a sports car drives a manual because he likes it. You drive your manaul because you think you look cool in it...

This thread has allready been made here at Automatic vs Manual (http://www.car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?t=1596&highlight=Auto+Manual ).

But the most important information you need to pay attention to is probably this.

posted by  DSMer

Too much of his knowledge to put into words. You'll have to read the entire thread. Quite frankly I think you wieners are too close minded... But if you want to open your mind to TRUE knowledge Read it all.

posted by  DSMer

I'm saying that I, as in me personally, feel that people with autos are usually more concerned with image. Again, in my opinion, owning a car should be about driving it, not just driving around in a car that shows off your money.

I drive my manual because I think I look cool in it? I already said I drive it because it's more fun for me, and I feel like I'm more in control of the car rather than going along for the ride. That comment is similar to me saying you choose an auto because you can't drive a car like a real man. Cold, and unnecessary.

Please don't say what a "real car enthusiast" is as though you wrote the definition; I'm sure plenty of people would disagree. For the record, I have nothing against driving cars with automatic transmissions, nor do I think a stick shift somehow provides more power. I'm just of the opinion that a stick shift is the better option, as it allows you to control the car the way you want to control it.

For example: If I were to race someone, I would never race them if they were in an auto, just like I wouldn't race someone in a car three times as strong as mine. I'm not interested in which car is better, I want to know which driver is better, and the best way to judge that is with a manual transmission.

I say again, I'm not trying to upset anyone with my opinions, so please calm down with the sarcastic remarks. Sheesh, you auto drivers are so touchy lol

posted by  Rane

Standard...hands down. :thumbs:
better perfomance (especially off the line), more reliable, a little better on gas...and most importantly: Fun to drive!

posted by  donvito2005

Again you can refuse decades of automotive knowledge with your ignorance. It does'nt really matter to me.

You seem to think a manaul gives you control of a car, but in actuality a clutch has abosultley nothing to do with taking a turn at 50mph. You think that a manaul transmission gives you "control" over the car when the transmission has abosolutley nothing to do with how the car handles on the road or any suspension or braking characteristics it may have. You are wrong in every way shape and form and you're attempting to hide it by saying its your opinon. Well I don't care if it is your opinion, you are wrong and any real car veteran(wich you are not) knows that.

There will always and shall be people like you that beleive they are superior with their manual transmission when REAL car racers have been doing it with manual transmission far longer than you've been living. Again your ignorance will only blind you from the truth, and I'm perfectly willing to accept that. The question is are you?

posted by  DSMer

DSMer, he never said anything about controlling it in a turn or handling. He said in a stick you can control when you want to shift and what gears you want to be in which will be betterfor drag racing and track races.

Dont manuals slow you down more quciker than autos ?

posted by  CarEXPERT

Since when does it matter how many RPM's you're engine is producing when going into a turn? How about you explain to me why a manual would work better in a drag race than an automatic. Since you know so much, oh god of transmissions.

The only thing that determines how fast you slow down are your brakes. But please don't forget to answer my first question. Explain to me how a manaul transmission works then explain how an automatic works. Then explain why one is more beneficial than the other in both straight line and track racing. Please I'm begging to know.

posted by  DSMer

:screwy: DSMer I know you not stupid so just tell me your having a bad day. :banghead:

posted by  CarEXPERT

If I knew how to use a clutch, i'd drive a manual :) But unfortunately my parents refuse to teach me, and I haven't found anyone else to yet.

posted by  ThirdeYe

I know you're a "car veteran" or whatever, so please forgive my amateurish post.

In a drag race, two people go down a straightaway, with the winner being the person that reaches the end first. Should one person have an automatic, the shifting is done (ironically enough) automatically. The other person, the one driving the stick shift, has to change gears on their own.

The auto can be tuned to shift exactly when you want it to, whether it's 3000 rpm's or an inch past the redline. Let's say you tune your auto to shift exactly at the red, very good, you get maximum power.

If we assume both drivers have similar cars, with the only difference being transmissions, we have one car that shifts perfectly every time, and one that might not. In this case, you're absolutely, one hundred percent correct. The automatic is designed to shift flawlessly, and I won't argue it's probably the better choice.

Then again, the other driver is doing the shifting himself. Is he as efficient as a machine? Hell no, but at least he's the one in control. While the auto driver steps on the gas and let's the machinery do the rest, the guy with the stick is hitting every gear himself.

Can automatic's be better than a manual? Absolutely, but will you ever know who the better driver is?

posted by  Rane

I'm not sure I think first stage.

posted by  GreekWarrior

Rofl, im sorry but i got to say that you guys should stop trying to fight with DSMer. he is one of the smartest persons on this forum, why would you even try. i swear he know everything about anything. so just a little tip for ya guys, dontwaste your time trying to fight DSMer, as ou will not win in the end anyway but be just wasting your time trying.

On my opinion, i like manual transmission due to the fact that i get very bored driving so it gives me something to do :laughing:

posted by  C c C

Well, you ended up doing it. I've built automatic equipped performance cars, for both autocross and drag racing. And I love a good auto in a big engine car on the street.

When not commuting have you ever actually timed how long you spend actually shifting? I have. it's aboutu 1-5% depending opn teh length ofthe drive. that means 95-99% of the time, your "driving" consistes of everything BUT shifting. yet here you are saying shifting is most of the fun of driving, and driving a car with an automatic means going along for the ride.

So an automatic transmission steers the car, brakes the car and presses on the gas? It chooses lanes and how to apex a corner? It provides the lateral and longitudinal G forces that you feel (and interpret as fun?) Seriously, after teh first few times after you've learned to shift, do you say, "look at that! I shifted! Oh, look, I did it again! I'm relly having fun now!"

But you can drive those fast indoor karts that have no shifter at all, and have a complete blast. Maybe because most of the fun of driving is from the G forces, not the shifting!

Most shifting you do on teh street is second nature, and you don't even notice doing it. How can that add to the fun?

Trust me, this car was plenty fun with the built automatic (which shifted fater than you can manually, and shifted when you wanted it to):

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/rx7f.jpg



It can't be avoided and it's bad. I've burned out two Porsche clutches in traffic like that.

posted by  ChrisV

This is ultimate bullshit. Seriously. If the guy in the automatic equipped car has tuned teh transmission himself, he's no less in control than the guy with th efuel injected catr that has programmed the fuel and spark curves.

You have a completely miguided notion of what being in control of the car is. I've had fast automatics and fast manuals. I still think a built automatic is best in a high power car, but I'll still beat you in any car control contest you care to name.

posted by  ChrisV

You don't use your trans to slow down unless you're a trucker.

And his point was that with everything that you do in a car, shifting is no more than 5% of the control you exert on a car in any situation. So thinking you're in control of a car with a manual, and just along for the ride in one with an automatic, is retarded. Plain retarded. It may be an opinion, but it's one based on mistaken information.

posted by  ChrisV

Its not my beleifs hes arguing against. Its somone else whos decades more experienced than I am..... ChrisV. He was the one who opened my eyes to automatic transmissions.





This is ultimate bullshit. Seriously. If the guy in the automatic equipped car has tuned teh transmission himself, he's no less in control than the guy with th efuel injected catr that has programmed the fuel and spark curves.

You have a completely miguided notion of what being in control of the car is. I've had fast automatics and fast manuals. I still think a built automatic is best in a high power car, but I'll still beat you in any car control contest you care to name.

I concur. That could'nt be more far from the truth. Do you people really think that a clutch has anything to do with how your car goes down the road? That your "stick" accelerates and deccelerates for you? A transmission has little or nothing to do with how your car steers, responds to throttle, deccelerates(like ChrisV said unless you're a trucker but thats not fast decceleration), or how you car handles itself when doing competetive racing events.

I would agree that if I were entering a sharp turn in 4rth gear that I would want to downshift to 1rst or 2nd in a manual, but how would that be any different than if I simply used throttle control and braking to aid my automatic transmission to 1rst or 2nd gear? Do you assume some sort of control because you moved a lever? You'll probably perform the same throttle and braking that a driver in an automatic tranmission car would you'd just be moving a stick. So that automaticly gives you control of a car? Does that make you the better driver even if the guy with automatic wins the race because you had to move a lever? Is there some sort of disadvantage that you have because you have to change gears? If anything the automatic transmission guys would be at a disadvantge because not everyone makes the parts and racing for his auto tranny. So while hes hard at work building his tranny all you're simply moving a stick? You say you like to "drive" your car.

Well I'll tell you this. "Driving" a car consist of more than just sitting in it and moving a stick. "Driving" a car is what people who build their own cars do. Guys like ChrisV who build custom cars from rust buckets. Every single piece of equipment they put in their they know why they did it, what it will do, and how it will function. They are'nt just moving a lever and calling themselves drivers. They are truely in control of their vehicle because they created it, they know how it works, and why it does what it does. Thats what "driving" a car is about....not moving a stick. So until you've created, modified, customized your own vehicle that represents you. You're just another joe schmoe in a stock car along for the ride.....

posted by  DSMer

In your auto? Of course, because you're letting a computer shift for you. Congratulations, your car won.

posted by  Rane

You got a little something on your nose there...not sure what, brown substance of some kind.

"Driving" a car can consist of a lot of things. Shifting a lever is one, and it's the one that gives you more control than the alternative. The alternative is to let the machinery do that shifting for you, and if prefer the ease of an auto, that might be the more attractive option. For me, I like to do as much as I can.

That's it, it's fun. I'm controlling my transmission; I'm choosing when my car shifts gears; I'm telling that engine to go easy, or to burn itself the hell out. It's my call, and if you want to say "so what" to that, be my guest. Enjoy your autos and defend them all you want. The rest of us will be doing the work ourselves, and enjoying every minute of it.

posted by  Rane

You got a little something on your nose there...not sure what, brown substance of some kind.
You little piss stain. Its taken you all this time to realize that I've been re-interpreting the learnings of a far smarter autmotive guru into my own words. You reek of ignornace and stupidity....

"Driving" a car can consist of a lot of things. Shifting a lever is one, and it's the one that gives you more control than the alternative. The alternative is to let the machinery do that shifting for you, and if prefer the ease of an auto, that might be the more attractive option. For me, I like to do as much as I can.
Shifting a lever is not one. If that were the case anyone with an automatic tranny would'nt drive their car. But thats not the case now is it you needledick. Last time I checked my Diamante does'nt drive itself to where I want it...

That's it, it's fun. I'm controlling my transmission; I'm choosing when my car shifts gears; I'm telling that engine to go easy, or to burn itself the hell out. It's my call, and if you want to say "so what" to that, be my guest. Enjoy your autos and defend them all you want. The rest of us will be doing the work ourselves, and enjoying every minute of it.
Your clutch has nothing to do with making engine "go easy" or making it "burnt itself out" you retard. Thats what a throttle is for. You can't raise or lower RPM's using a clutch pedal, its your throttle that is and always has been in control of your engine. Its the tires, suspensions, and steering that is and always has been in control of your cars handling. Little piss ants like you beleive they can control a car because they have a stick and a clutch pedal. I challange you to run through a very tight slalom like course with a nice beefy RWD manual car. When you spin out several times let me know how you were "in control" with a manual transmission.

posted by  DSMer

DSMer will you stop being so simple minded, the topic of auto vs. manual is too broad, you have to think who's driving the car and why, it has to fit the persons needs. If they're a business man they might want an automatic in their sports car so they can talk on the cell phone while away from meetings (a horrible thing to do I might add), then again if you have sumone who just wants to fool around with their car when they want to they might go with the manual just so they can shift at low rpm's when they want to, and high rpm's when they want to get the most out of their car. It's all based on what the driver of the car bought the car for.

And one more thing about the auto, true it will beat lets say a manual in a drag race, but what if the person who races his car would also like to drive it on the street? the easiest change would be for a manual transmission so as you can chose to save gas or burn it.

So to answer the orginal question, the one on the first post of the first page, it all depends on what you need the car for.

posted by  240SXSR20DET

a stick isnt neccisarilly better than a auto. my camaro has the turbo 350 and it is almost the same as my friends tranny who has a stick in his s-10 with a 350. we race each other regularly and it goes either way.

posted by  talongod33

DSMer will you stop being so simple minded, the topic of auto vs. manual is too broad, you have to think who's driving the car and why, it has to fit the persons needs.
First and foremost this is irrelivant. No shit that something needs to fit a persons needs etc.. We already know this prior to logical human thinking.

If they're a business man they might want an automatic in their sports car so they can talk on the cell phone while away from meetings (a horrible thing to do I might add), then again if you have sumone who just wants to fool around with their car when they want to they might go with the manual just so they can shift at low rpm's when they want to, and high rpm's when they want to get the most out of their car.
Again, what does engine speed have to do with "getting the most" out of your car? You can't answer the question without brining faulty logic into the picture so don't try. You're just wrong, plain and simple.. A manual transmission is not going to give you the best of your car. You should be alot more careful with how you word your thoughts.

It's all based on what the driver of the car bought the car for.

And one more thing about the auto, true it will beat lets say a manual in a drag race, but what if the person who races his car would also like to drive it on the street? the easiest change would be for a manual transmission so as you can chose to save gas or burn it.
This is negotiable. My Eclipse burns more gas in auto form than others of mine who have manuals. I've also seen automatic Camaros that guzzle gas. Depends on the engine and driver about gas, not the transmission.

So to answer the orginal question, the one on the first post of the first page, it all depends on what you need the car for.
Your answer, while it may be the most logical one, is not the best choice. Many people have a vauge interpretation that manual is better than automatic. That simply is'nt true. There are certain cases where auto will out performce manual and vice versa. The point I'm trying to get across is that a manual transmission does'nt designate a driver from a non driver, nor does it necissarily mean more tallent or fun. Its simply a unit placed in a car that allows the driver to manually change the gears in the transmission. I like a manual as good as the next guy, but saying that I drive manual so I'm better than the rest of the drivers on the road who drive automatic is completly ignorant and utter bullshit. And to say that a manual transmission is better than a automatic because you have more control of the car is also ignorant and utter bullshit.

posted by  DSMer

You can do that with an auto like was in my RX7. No, it wsan't stock: it had a $45 shift kit in it. Most domestic, and a number of import, automatic transmissions haev similar kits. DOn't jusge automatics by the stock one in mom's Accord...



Again, you can do that with an automatic. Leave it in D and let vacuum determine the optimum shift points, or move that lever yourself. A stock automatic will always be tuned for luxury and smooth shifts, but there's nothing that says you have to leave it stock, any more than you have to leave the engine stock or teh suspension. Most people will talk about the potential in a stock engine or chassis when you start to mod it, but assume teh a stock automatic is the only way it will ever be or CAN be, and that's just wrong.

My RX7 was very quick, it was perfect for use on the autocrss coure, and was easy to drive on the street. All with a modded automatic. It was tyical of high torque cars.

posted by  ChrisV

I don't have a f*cking computer in that car, assclown. Read it again.

posted by  ChrisV

No, it isn't "the one" that gives you more control over the car. If you think so, you're completely mistaken.

Say I take away your steering wheel, brake pedal, and throttle. Would you still have more control? Simply put, you can remove the clutch pedal and stil be in complete control of wherre the car goes, how fast it's going, where in teh lane it is, when it stops, and how it goes in traffic AND on a race course. But you remove any of the three I mentioned, you are not. So therefor, the clutch pedal and shifter are the LEAST important in terms of control. YOu can't prove otherwise.





So was I.

Again, I ask you, 90% of the time you shift, it's secondnature and not even noticed. How does that nmake it fun, vsnot haivng fun? Have you ever drivein an indoor kart? the ones that do 45 or so? They have no shifters at all, and everyone I've known, including professional race drivers, seem to think they are fun. How could they be any fun if your not shifting? You seem to think that's the sum total of fun.




You're "doing the work" less than 5% of the time behind the wheel. MOST of the time behind the wheel you're working the steering, brake and accellerator.

Here's a little bit you should mull over: if it's as you say,. then bolting a shifter and clutch pedal on your easy chair at home will give you the entire amount of "fun" you have driving. and yopu'll be in more control of a car than I was in my RX7. Right? By bolting a shifter and clutch pedal on that chair, yop'll have all the fun, all the control, and save youself a ton of money in gas and insurance.

Listen, I've had over a hundred cars, and over half have had manuals. All three cars I've bought new have had manuals. I've raced both manuals and automatics, and have couple decades of experience with both. I've got the trophies to prove I can outdrive you in either. If you don't want to listen to me and learn something, that's you're perogative. But I'd suggest opening your mind, not closing it up. I'm not saying you have to own automatics. But, I am saying you need to experience a bit more than mom's Accord before thinking you actually know anything about the subject.

posted by  ChrisV

ChrisV no one answer my question so can you please answer it. Doesnt a stick use more power to spin the wheels cuz an auto uses power to work the torque converter.?
Just to make sure, Is burning the clutch mean that the clutch rubbes on to the flywheel too much that it burns and has no friction??

How many fuel pumps are there in a modern car? I read this book that said it had a fuel pump in the fuel tank and another one on the chassie, then the lines go to the fuel rail and after that there is a fuel pressure regulator. Why would a fuel preessure regulator be after the injectors? Please help

posted by  CarEXPERT

Can you please attempt to freshen up your english. It becomes increasingly difficult to understand what you are trying to ask when you can't put the words into a legitimate question.

Q: Does an automatic loose more power through the torque converter than a manual would through a clutch assembly?

A: On a tranmission you would experience some power loss through a torque convertor as well a clutch for the simple fact that moving parts take power to move. As far as loosing more power than a clutch that is negotiable. It would depend highly on the torque convertor and the engine. As with any rotational assembly, anything that that is within the rotation that is'nt multiplying the ammount of torque via gears is taking away overall power. Thats why you can get 300HP measured at the crank and only 250 at the wheels. Again, the miniscule ammount of powerloss between a torque convertor and clutch assembly would be very unoticable. Even if there was a big difference the auto driver could simply purchase a lighter torque convertor.

Q: How man fuel pumps are there on a modern car?

A: There can one or two fuel pump on a modern car. Either a mechanical fuel pump attached to the camgear or a series of smaller and larger electric pumps that can me mounted virtually anywhere. The "fuel pump" you're referring to inside the gas tank is probably system of two electircal pumps where the smaller pump(in the gas tank) feeds the larger pump for the fuel injectors

The fuel pressure regulator is generally located between the lines and the fuel rail. As its impossible to mount anything after the injectors(thats the end of the line buddy). The fuel pressure regulator is located before the fuel rail because a fuel pump(as with all pumps) does'nt give a constant steady flow of fuel. A fuel pressure regulator or a pulsation damper smooth out the flow of fuel to give a nice stead flow to the injectors. I know the pressure must be regulated on a carbuerated car because the pulsation of fuel can have a pushing effect on the carburetor float needle valve causing it to come off its seat and flood the carburetor. Not exactly sure about a fuel injected car. But I'll have to guess for similar reasons...

posted by  DSMer

Q:So DSMER the regulator is before the fuel rail but after the fuel rail the line return back to the tanks right? Why would it have a ruturn line?
Q:Im notsure whata fuel pressure regulaor does but Does the fuel pressure regulator make the fuel pressure go up when you need it and make it go down? Does the regulator need to know the manifold pressure and how much airflow from the map and maf sensors?
THANKS DSMER!!! Just to tell you so you dont get mad I already read books about this butbooks are confusing.

posted by  CarEXPERT

I drive a stick. I live in the suburbs, so it's perfect. And I don't really think it's all that bad in the city. I mean every day, maybe, but if the inherant fun & control of the stick is really worth it to you, then go for it. One thing: in stick, speeding is a lot more of a concern. At least for me. I tend to think about my shifts more than my speed. At least until I know I'm speeding, look down, and I'm 20 over and climbing. So you need to weigh the odds- performance vs. comfort. And don't listen to anyone who says your left leg hurts. Because it doesn't. It's just a pain to always be shifting.

posted by  Patrick

Stick all the way. there is no substitution for a manual. its a great feeling when you can pull out of K-Mart and leave behind a nice strip of rubber for the members to remember you by.

posted by  Smokin_you

you read Initial D?

posted by  gtr_man

thats not always the best way to go

posted by  gtr_man

if your slow with stick you should get an automatic

posted by  gtr_man

except, with stock gearboxes, you generally don't get 5 or 6 speed autos. Stockwise, I believe manual will most of the time be faster than auto. (exception = paddle shifters)

posted by  Godlaus

i like to heel and toe so i prefer manual.

posted by  fudge

As much as i like to drive customers stick shift cars ( i work at a mazda/ vw dealer), there are great things about autos. Every good tuner should know that if you do one thing you have to do it all. When you beef up the engine and your making too much power you beef up the clutch on a stick right? well you can certainly beef up the auto.
Another thing, if you look at comparisons between two like cars with similar mods done, as the vehicle gets faster and has more power, the automatic may run at a slower speed but it runs consistantly and usually a few tenths faster.

Based on driver does anyone realize the whole launch thing. Its called reaction time. That part is 100% driver

DSMer has pretty much nailed all of you on anything you can say about standard shift.

I don't know what kind of vehicles anyone else is driving but i have seen plenty of 5 and 6 speed autos (mazda6, jetta GLI, Passat, vette, hmmm isnt there that power monster m3? smg auto with paddle shift bassicaly, audi tt with the dsg same princaple as the smg. the toureg, i cant really think of anymore 5 and 6 speed autos but you get the picture)

posted by  High Impedance

Yes.......

posted by  GreekWarrior

The debate between standard and auto is going to be a forever on-going thing. It really depends on what you're going to use the vehicle for over which is better.

A standard car has good acceleration, good mileage, absolute power transfer (which isn't always good as I will explain) and is cheaper to repair.

An automatic from a stop, makes up to twice the torque of that of a standard because the automatic transmission doesn't bog down the motor like a standard does when you drop it into gear, engine RPM's aren't relavent to wheel speed (think drag racing advantages, that's why you see so many automatic cars, not just because they don't know how to drive standard..), but after that start, is the end of the advantages for an automatic.

So if you're dragging, in lots of cases automatic's the way to go, otherwise, if you don't mind the constant clutching and shifting involved with a standard, that's the way to go, definately.

posted by  88GrandPrixSE

The problem is, why does it have to be one or the other? If I can live with both kinds of cars, what's so effing hard about being able to do that?

I've had race cars of both types, and street cars of both types. My V8 RX7 was perfect with the built automatic, as was my modded Mustang, nad my Jaguar XJ6s, and so will be my '63 Comet. The PT is better served by the manual, as was my SVT Contour and my Fiat. So were my Porsches and all those custom air cooled VWs. There's just no reason to HAVE the debate if you can like both types.

posted by  ChrisV

See yet another example of having a preference, and then using a completely irrelevant reason FOR that preference.

This car was an automatic, and yet it had no problem leaving behind a "nice strip of rubber" just by punching it.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/pontipotamus.jpg

You guys are obviously too used to driving mom's automatic equipped 4 cyl Accord or Camry that has no power....

posted by  ChrisV

STICKS ARE MUCH FASTER AND MORE ACCURATE THAN AUTOMATICS WHO CARES IF YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO SHIFT DOWN THERE STILL REALLY FUN!!!!!!!!! :thumbs:

posted by  toyota

*sigh* try reading all the posts before you try to add something to the mix.

posted by  Godlaus

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