New TT

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I just stumbled upon this pic of the next-gen TT.http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/1769878333365290.JPG?0.009840206 144715147 Sure it'll be bigger and have more power blah blah, but the thing in this pic is just UGLY. Why must such a beautiful car be turned into THAT thing?!?! I know it reflects all the other new Audis, but the other new ones are somewhat good-looking, this thing is just plain ugly. :2cents: What do you think?

posted by  jedimario

I'm not the biggest fan of Audi, but it looks ok, not bad not good.

posted by  drifterv_2000

What are you TALKING about...the old TTs (to me) just seem very.........round. I don't dig them at all, this new one looks kinda like a z4, I like it.

posted by  Zalight

I think it looks pretty good, might look alittle better with a little bit smaller grille but i dont mind it.

posted by  car_crazy89

agreed... the ol TT's looked like a redesigned beetle. The new one looks a lot better. It kinda borders the line between sports car and exotic (keyword: kinda).

:2cents:

posted by  elchango36

The original was a certified work of art. Freeman Thomas and J Mays pulled design from both the original Auto Union race cars and the Bauhaus school of design, and created some serious artwork. You may have thought it just a "redesigned Beetle" but there's a reason it won so many design awards, and not just from automotive design experts. Art and architectural design experts also praised it.

Which means it HAS to have something going for it designwise.

posted by  ChrisV

Really??? I had no idea. Thanks for the enlightenment. But then who designed the Beetle?? Same guys??? They resemble eachother for some odd reason.

posted by  elchango36

If it still soft and overweight for it's size and FWD with optional Quattro, I won't look twice (no matter how good or stylish it looks). Seems like it will be a big hit with the regular Audi crowd though. :banghead: FWD based Roadster? :banghead: No offence to the gay community, but that is just... homosexual (Thank you Mazda for setting the bar).

posted by  VG30DE

yeah, but some people think that the mona lisa is the most beautiful painting in the world...and I dont.


For me, Even though it may have won so many designs, I just dont like it, Its just not my style.

posted by  Zalight

this one does look a lot better than the older ones but i don't like audi that much. To me they are just a glorified volkswagon

posted by  mx3_monster

Are you joking? I love the look of that new TT. We have several Audi/ VW vehicles (which have been great), I expect that car should do well. I like that look, of course I do like the current one. I would love a Coupe one with the 3.2 engine and Quattro... that would be nice.

posted by  StiMan

Yup. The New Beetle was also designed by J Mays and Freeman Thomas, when they were working out of VW's design center in California. This was before Mays went on to Ford to be head of Ford's worldwide design team.

Mays has always had a slight Bauhaus influence (simple geometry. Think Braun appliances and electronics for a design example), and his design language tends to be very recognizeable. From the Passat and A4/A6 of the late '90s through the Ford Five Hundred and GT. Sharp transitions, not a lot of surface embellishment, and very high tech details.

posted by  ChrisV

The point is, when a design is recognized worldwide by so many experts in the field, from modern art museums to architectural review groups to design centers, to financial magazines, it IS a good design. And if you're that out of step with the people paid to know what good design is, what then becomes your point of reference for knowing what good design is? Merely that it appeals to you or not, personally? And why does it not appeal to you when it apparently appeals to people paid to know what appeals to people? (ok, that was hard to type...) :laughing:

I guess it's from years of architecture and design studies, and art appreciation classes, that I can understand and like good design even if it's not my personal style. I can't just go "well, it's not what I would do so it sucks." I do the same for the various genres of the automotive hobby...

posted by  ChrisV

and that's why i love Mays's designs. i'm a big fan of simplicity with designing - i love the TT the way he designed it. its elegant, yet simple. :thumbs:

posted by  SuperJew

I don't think that at all, I mean if you like it, more power to you, I just don't. I Dont like rocky road Ice Cream, but a lot of people do, I mean its still a good recipe (obviously, since so many people like it) but I don't dig it at all.

posted by  Zalight

IMO i always thought that the TT's looked like fancier civics bu thats jus IMO

posted by  hhsrastler92

Ya, me too.

posted by  StiMan

lol when i told my friend thta he got real real mad lol i was like dude thats all they are

posted by  hhsrastler92

Im liking that new style. Looks like an A3. Id like it beter if it wasnt a convertible though.

posted by  SlipKnoT

I have to say the A3 is one of the only hatchbacks i would drive

posted by  hhsrastler92

What about the Focus ZX3, Focus Saleen, Focus RS (signature), and the Golfs? :ticking: :evil:

posted by  SlipKnoT

mayb the golf but other then that i think th 89-93 model mustangs an thats about the only hatches id drive lol

posted by  hhsrastler92

I am sure they will have a Coupe one. They have a coupe version of the current one.


Ditto. I hate Fords, so Focus is out of the question. I really love the look of the A3. Plus you can get it with a 3.0 and Quattro. I also like the new shifting system they have on it. (Some form of SMG, the BMW system) It is pretty much a manual, but without a clutch pedal.

posted by  StiMan

LOL Saleen Focus. Sounds like me and the mad scientist are gonna have to rip apart the block and replace those piston rings you fried... from RUNNING TOO MUCH NOOOOOSSSSSSSSS. I can't think of any other car that comes stock on the bottle. It might be fun to play Vin Diesel for a day but the car looks kinda like it is straight out of F&F minus some decals. I guess Ford thinks there is no market for an RS, just like there is no market for a Focus2 :screwy: ?

posted by  VG30DE

Hold up there. 3.2 with DSG is the combo you are thinking of. DSG is way different from the SMG. DSG has 2 clutches that are automated to oppose each other. One fits inside the other like a donut and a donut hole. One clutch handles 1-3-5 and the other handles 2-4-6-R. It isn't as able to handle the power of the the V8's and other big power engines yet, probably due to the size of the clutches. The advantage like other SMG's is that you have no torque converter so you get ALL of the power. The advantage that Audi has with the DSG is that you never lose the power on the shift because the clutches are switching off and for the brief moment of the shift, you can be using both clutches at the same time (similar to an automatic). Regular SMGs like traditional manual transmissions have a short but significant power loss on the shift. DSG's also shift MUCH faster than any SMG or human can. Single clutch systems (human or computer) are limited to about .3 seconds on the street in the most aggressive of circumstances while the DSG can do it in about .07 seconds at its hardest. All shifts are seemless unlike the SMG. Since it has 2 clutches it can "think ahead" by preselecting the next gear it thinks you will use even dropping 2 or 3 gears at a time isnt a problem for it because of the 2 clutches.

posted by  VG30DE

I think they look awesome. Notice that Ford onlt gets to do stuff with Steeda, Roush, Saleen, and Shelby (with the exception of Dodge). :mrgreen:

Those Saleen Focuses also have bigger intake and exhaust valves along with a higher compression ratio.

posted by  SlipKnoT

And this sort of back and forth is why so many forums are popuated by kids that have opinions, but no actual knowledge behind them...

:doh:

posted by  ChrisV

And dude, what's with hating a brand? That's just silly. Have you ever driven a Focus on the track? Have you ever driven a SVT Contour?

I mean, having favorites is one thing, but turning down an entire brand for rather specious reasoning is an Oombah or C4 trait...

:banghead:

posted by  ChrisV

I didn't know that about them, I thought it was boltons with a bottle as far as the engine went. Do they do that with the mustangs too? It doesn't make sense to me to pay so damn much for a N/A V8 from Saleen that has Saleen bodywork when you can have an '03 Cobra or an '05 GT that you mod yourself or just wait for the new Shelby.

posted by  VG30DE

I know that man. I did not remember the name of the damn system... you obviously could tell what I meant.

ChrisV: I dont constantly block out Fords. I simply dont like them as much as other cars. I dont like Focus's for several reasons (the primary one being that one rolled when the editor of Automobile was driving it= one of the best drivers (or one who drives often, and for a job) cant control it when doing simple driving; I also learned to drive on one, and did not find it... interesting I guess is the word.) When I have an option for a Audi or a Ford, I will most probably choose the Audi. Your SVT Contour is an good car. I like it. They are good cars, but I just do not like Fords much. :2cents:

posted by  StiMan

I'm no graet fan of the current TT...IMO...The new one looks no better, although I'm liking Audi's new grille that they have gone for! :2cents:

posted by  Cliffy

fair enough. But that's differnt than "I hate Fords."




Something was wrong, as most editors have commented on how well they handle. Considering no one has rolled them in autocross, even pushing them hard, I'd say he either did something extremely wrong, caught a wheel on something causing a tripping event (and I've seen enough Subaru rally cars do that), or it was a fluke. In any case, I simply cannot blame the car, and you shouldn't either.

http://www.stowaway.us/gallery/albums/Autocross10-5-03/DSCN0822.sized.jpg

I've never seen one CLOSE to rolling over in hard maneuvering, and I've driven a regional championship wining stock class Focus... In fact, it was this car, owned by Mike Snyder:

http://www.scca-susq.com/photogallery/pre2003/large25.jpg

posted by  ChrisV

I have no clue what happened. All I know is that he (and the head photographer) rolled into a ditch infront of a church.

I personally did not find anything amazing about their handling or acceleration characteristics. (Of course, that was a ZTS, maybe the ZX3 is better.) :2cents:

posted by  StiMan

The ZTS is different. But as all the reviews have found (and I agree, after driving so many cars on teh track):

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=3219

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=2361&page_ number=4

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/longterm/articles/44025/page025.html





The sporty handling has always been a favorite of reviewers worldwide, and mentioned in all the magazines regardless of model being reviewed. And from what I've found in person, they've been spot on in that assesment.

I'm trying to find reference for that Automobile magazine incedent...

posted by  ChrisV

LOL sorry man, I just assumed I guess. Oh well, at least a noob or 3 will learn something today, right? :thumbs:

posted by  VG30DE

Looks like they stole some nasty styling headlights form BMW...

posted by  thunderbird1100

well... I never liked the TT, to slow for the price, but i did like it's styling, and the name, (my initials :laughing: ) the new one looks ugly, i dont think i like it at all, in fact i know i dont like it at all.

posted by  Slapshot

Chris: After what you posted I expect that the ZTS wont handle as well as a ZX3. As to the Automobile thing: I dont remember when it happened. I think atleast a year ago. I dont remember it having its own article, but it was in the editor's section... Ill look.

10 min later...
Here it is, off the Automobile website: http://www.automobilemag.com/columns/0301_vilegossip/index.html.
I was wrong it was a SVT Focus.

posted by  StiMan

HEY you just tryin to start a flame war with me.....I'm tellin mommy!!!!
Well I guess I see your point, but BMW makes them look good.

posted by  jedimario

I think the TT isn't that ugly. It has some nice features but it's not the best looking car ever.

posted by  Gizmo

Eh, the new 5 series headlights look awful. The new 3 series headlights work well.

posted by  thunderbird1100

:stupid:

i hate the new 5-series headlights. but the 3's headlights...work. I still don't love them (i still prefer the older styles), but they work. :banghead:

posted by  SuperJew

THat article is very enlightening if you actually READ it. The driver lost control, went into a ditch, and roled the car when it hit the soft dirt.

"We slid over the bank of the ditch, the front wheel dug in, and I'll be damned if that car didn't flip right over onto its roof into the ditch."

Now, read this:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/rollover.htm

"Most rollovers result from the vehicle leaving the roadway and tripping. While unfortunate (and all too often tragic), the causes of tripped rollover are well understood. Any vehicle will roll over if it impacts a suitable tripping mechanism with sufficient lateral velocity."

The fact is that over 4000 people are killed each year in passenger car rolovers in the US (this does not include SUVs or light trucks, mind you, of which about 2500 of each have fatal rollovers annually). Many, many sports cars rollover. Supras, Corvettes Ferraris. If you get out of control and slide into a ditch or the median, you're very likely to roll over from that tripping event. Over 200,000 people are in rollover accidents annually in the US, and well over half of them ar passenger cars.

If the Focus had rolled while simple executing a hard turn, you could blame the car. But as it is, it's just a typical tripping event causing a rollover.


This is one ot the things that bugs me about so many supposed car enthusiasts. People hear one thing and think they know enough to form a solid opinion. You read about a Focus rolling over, and you think "bad cars. I'll stay away from them."

Yet I can give you similar stories and pictures for all sorts of cars, from Toyotas to Ferraris.

http://www.car-accidents.com/pics/carphotos/4-1-04.jpg

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/supra/supra_100502_004.jpg

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/corvette/corvette_20040607_001.jpg

That last is a Corvette. here's an M3...

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/m3/m3_20030515_004.jpg

ANY car can roll over easily if it hits the dirt sideways. Disliking one because you read a journalist rolled it is just silly.

posted by  ChrisV

Why did you have to show an Integra? :cry:

posted by  99integra

Or the M....I almost cried.

posted by  Zalight

I posted both of them to point out how ANY car, even a low slung FWD sport coupe or highly acclaimed RWD driver's car, like the M3, can roll over if you get it into the dirt sideways.

STiMan said the "primary reason" he hates Focuses is that a Focus rolled over when an automobile magazine editor was doing "simple driving." Well, the driver lost control, went sideways into a ditch, and then the car rolled. Since ANY car can do that, then he should logically hate EVERY car for the same reason. Or, equally logically, he should not hate Focuses for THAT reason.

The driver was not an editor, but teh copy chief, Wendy Keebler. We dont' know what her performance driving qulifications are. Regardless, the pickup she was passing started to turn and she swerved hard to avoid it, overcorrected, and lost control. Not the car's fault at all, yet he feels that since teh driver lost controll and rolled it in "simple driving" it's a bad car. Sorry, but that's the kind of limited-information opinion building that plagues people like Oombah and C4... And it has no business coming from the brain of a well rounded automotive enthusiast.

posted by  ChrisV

I know, I just hate seeing an M that has been killed. A part of my soul dies along with it.

posted by  Zalight

Hey, I didnt remember the details. All I remembered was a Focus rolling over. Thats all I remembered from when I read it several years ago.

Sorry for all the arguement. I dont think that you will be able to get my distaste towards of Fords out of me, atleast not now, so there is no reason to try. I just dont like them very much. :2cents:

posted by  StiMan

Ok, Oombah. "I don't care what the facts are, I have my opinion, and that's good enough for me."

posted by  ChrisV

"and if anyone do things to their car that I don't like then they are stupid"

posted by  fudge

hey chrisV i said "IMO" an i do have actual knowledge behind them ok so **** off dude i mean damn if you dont like it then ignore it quit bein a prick alright buddy i mean just because someone's opinion isn't the same as your doesnt mean you have to go an say shit about it :banghead:

posted by  hhsrastler92

Chris you are welcome to say whatever the hell you are going to say. Some day you are just going to have to realise that you cannot take out somethings from people who have been living with it for their entire life. I am not Oombah, and I dont have the same ideals that he does, but from my experience (which I know is no where near as lengthy as yours), Fords have caused me more trouble than other cares. I dont hate them, I just do not like them as other cars. I dont think that at this time, you (or anyone else), can change my opinion on this. :2cents:

posted by  StiMan

If your opinion is not based on facts, then change it rather than bitch at me for pointing out that it was based on mistaken informtion and assumptions. If your facts are wrong, learn the newq facts rather than bitch that the facts dont' nmatch your OPINIONS.

Dang dude, do you know everything already at 14 that you can't learn anything?

Again, typical f*cking forum kid, and what I bitched about before. I try and give benefit of my 27+ years of driving experience, my direct ownership experience of well over a hundred cars of all nationalities, my years of experience WORKING on cars of all types, racing cars of all types, and nearly a decade of study before THAT, and what I've subsequently learned about cars over the last 35+ years, and you want to argue f*cking opinions????

No, YOU f*ck of, you ignorant little shit. If you don't want to learn anything about cars, go the f*ck home.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

posted by  ChrisV

On second thought, you're right. Opinions are all that matter. You really don't have to actually know anything. I no longer give a shit if you all want to be closed minded retards. You all said you wanted to actually learn, and to try to be more open minded enthusiasts, but it's all a sham, isn't it? You really don't. You already have formed concrete opinions about everything, and f*ck all if the facts don't f*cking match the opinions. Toss the facts. Opinions are everything.

posted by  ChrisV

You're right. Only f*cking intelligent people can actually change their opinions when it's proven the "facts" they based them on are mistaken.
It's so f*cking much more important to be closed minded, so you're right. I won't try anymore. You've proven that even the best on this forum are ****ing closed minded shits who would rather bitch about someone showing where their information is wrong than actually TRY to f*cking learn.

You guys might as well be saying this: "I don't care WHAT the facts are, or what you show me, I'm too f*cking stupid to let go if the misinformation I had, and I don't want to anyhow. I realize it might be wrong, but it's more important to have the opinion I've lived with, than actually TRY to learn anything. And it's more important to bitch about it when those facts are proven wrong."

Go ahead. Have a nice f*cking closed minded life. It's what people here are f*cking best at.

posted by  ChrisV

teh f_ck? What are you talking about? You better have a good explanation...

posted by  importluva

Jezus Chris! Dont destroy yourself about this. You have taught me certainly to accept Fords. Jeez, before you started talking to me about this, I couldnt stand them (hence my rash comments that put me on probation..). You do alot for this community, and you certianly help others.

Fine Chris, I most certainly have to say that I have grown to repect Ford more and more here (certainly with your help). :2cents:

posted by  StiMan

Chris has been on a PMS spree as of late (dont know why). I would just ignore most of posts until he calms the hell down.

posted by  thunderbird1100

It gets us all mad Chris but you need to take it down a notch, regain your composure buddy :ohcrap:

posted by  99integra

Roger. Thanks man... :thumbs:

posted by  StiMan

Hypothetical conversation...

Noob: I love Sti's! Their V8 makes them so fast!

StiMan: They have turbo 4 cyls.

Noob: No they don't! I hate 4 cyl cars, they're slow! The STi is fast because of the V8!

StiMan: (brings out links to technical cutaways of the Sti, reviews, etc). Well, this 4 cyl car is fast. Thinking it has a V8 because you hate 4 cyls is retarded, as it's proven they don't have V8s.

Noob: Retarded? Quit giving me attitude because my opinion's different! I had a 4 cyl '94 Impreza and it was slow as hell! I KNOW 4 cyls are slow! I hate them! V8s are fast! The STi is fast, so it has a V8!

StiMan: I proved they have turbo 4 cyls!

Noob: Well, I've hated 4 cyls so long, I'm going to continue to hate them! You can't change my mind! I don't care WHAT proof you posted that they have turbo 4cyls, it's my opinion they have V8s to make them that fast!

StiMan: Dude, we all proved that Stis don't have V8s. It's a fact, why can't you figure that out? You're just being a moron.

Noob: You just can't handle that I have a different opinion than you! You're being mean to me just because my opinion's different!

Chorus: Yeah, StiMan, get off the rag. He has a different opinion than you. So what? No one here needs to know any facts!

..............................

You people act like that noob, but *I'm* the one with the problem. What a f*cking joke.

posted by  ChrisV

Come on Chris calm it down, I have a problem with it but seems like you got a ****in grudge against this :ohcrap:

posted by  99integra

Guys I am sorry. Ill tone it down. I dont have distaste towards all Fords anyways. I'd take a 93 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 over my Camry anyday, but I certainly wouldnt trade a Taurus for it, or a Focus for that matter (maybe a SVT, but...) Id take a 350 PowerStroke over a Toyota Tundra or a Ridgeline. Chris, I am sorry to have cause all of this trouble, and I know that the Focus that rolled was simply a fluke that can happen to any car. :2cents:

posted by  StiMan

Unless it's a Mercedes A-Class :ohcrap: :hi:

...Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood a little :ohcrap: :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

Lol, thats fine Cliffy. Infact, we dont have the A-Class here. (I do have a model of a A160, they look pretty sweet to me.)

posted by  StiMan

I'm no huge fan....I prefer the older style to the new onr though.....You guys know about the testing of the original though?...right? *Hopes they got his (sad)pun* :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

No (atleast I didnt), did it roll like hell? :laughing:

posted by  StiMan

The A-Class? That's that tiny little wagon thing right? Kinda shaped like an old Oddesy? I hate those things.

posted by  jedimario

LOL....On initial testing at Mercedes a test driver was carrying out a slalom to test suspention etc, and without any warning and travelling at a reasonably slow pace....it flipped :ohcrap:

Needless to say they modified the suspension before it's release lol


Yes, funn looking thing....cross between an MPV (Multi Purpose Vehicle) and a Hatch Back :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

Lol, that is funny.

posted by  StiMan

We have an MPV, I hate it...

posted by  jedimario

Just a little edit to my last statement guys.....I seem to recall the problem being something to do with downforce rather than suspension...Either way though, it wasn't too good for publicity lol :ohcrap:

posted by  Cliffy

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