My new Baby

Home  \  European Imports  \  My new Baby

It comes home tuesday!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

VW Passat (http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3623/v64ox.jpg)

posted by  Spencer

Thats a big pic. Still... why didnt you just get a Jetta? But congrats none the less!

posted by  StiMan

I sat in a Jetta, then I sat in the Pasat, I was blown away. I just loved the styling it is basically a copy of an Audi's interior. + its nicer :mrgreen: !

posted by  Spencer

The two cars (the Jetta and Passat) are both copies of Audis. Also, the interior in the Audi would be better. I still would have gotten a smaller car.

posted by  StiMan

Idk, I like Pasats more, Are they faster? The AWD was a big Plus.

posted by  Spencer

Damn I hate you :laughing:

posted by  SlipKnoT

:laughing: Horray!

posted by  Spencer

The Jetta is much lighter than the Passat. And no, the V6 Passat (AWD or FWD) isnt really fast at all. It's a little bit slower than a I4 Camry or Accord. Just take a look at the JEtta vs. Passat (2004, 2005).

4motion GLX V6 Passat
3725lbs/190hp = 19.6 lbs/hp (ouch)

VR6 Jetta GLI
3175lbs/200hp = 15.9lbs/hp

As you can see the Passat is a pretty hefty load to be carrying around. Not a very quick car. I'll show you some other vehicles power/weight ratio to show you how your Passat compares to other cars.

(All are 2005's)

Accord EX V6 Sedan
3375lbs/240hp = 14.1lbs/hp

Accord EX I4 Sedan
3150lbs/170hp = 18.5lbs/hp

Impala SS V6 S/C'ed
3600lbs/240hp = 15lbs/hp

Maxima SE V6
3425lbs/265hp = 12.9lbs/hp

Civic EX Sedan
2600lbs/127hp = 20.5lbs/hp

posted by  thunderbird1100

No worries, but I dont see a corolla or scion or neon on that list :laughing: !

posted by  Spencer

(All 2005's)

Corolla LE 1.8 I4 Sedan
2550lbs/130hp = 19.6lbs/hp

This means you should have acceleration on right on par with that of a Corolla with the low output 1.8.

Corolla XRS 1.8 I4 Sedan
2675lbs/170hp = 15.7lbs/hp

posted by  thunderbird1100

Pretty new and already getting the ropes of flaming a loser :laughing: :thumbs:

posted by  GonnaDie4TheGov

Congratulations, that's a pretty nice car...Hoping to see some more pics on Tuesday (Smaller ones preferrably) :thumbs:

posted by  chris_knows

:pop: If Only I knew how to resize pics.

posted by  Spencer

It's called PAINT

posted by  jedimario

Cant beat the VW's blue dashboard lights though :drool:

I linked us to the pic, too.....it was too big before :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3623/v64ox.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=v64ox.jpg)
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/8522/dscn04951uc.th.jpg (http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn04951uc.jpg)
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/8636/dscn04941gm.th.jpg (http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn04941gm.jpg)
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/6870/dscn04907tj.th.jpg (http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn04907tj.jpg)

posted by  Spencer

cooleo, volkswagens i like, i think they kinda went downhill after production on the scirocco stopped. methinks they're marketshare went up though... must be doin' something right. I like the car.

posted by  Slapshot

:mrgreen: Well Porsche Just bought like 20% or something of their stock so you know something good is going on.

posted by  Spencer

I like the interior, looks very nice. :thumbs:

posted by  hondaman

yeah, porsche... :heh:

posted by  Slapshot

What good could come out of that is Porsche letting VW maybe use that new 295hp 3.4 flat six in a R32 (or..rather, R34).

posted by  thunderbird1100

An R34 :drool: !

Btw I was asking around and VW people mentioned that a KandN intake should be the first thing I get for it. But Im confused by their site and cant find one.

posted by  Spencer

The Passat is anice car, with a lot going for it.

You're not going to see much benefit from a K&N. Maybe 1-2 mpg difference over a long period of time. A chip will get you more benefit, but it's costly. ANY "intake" for a car like this is just relocating the air cleaner, and there really isn't much benefit to making it longer or in a different area unless you can ram cold air in. And even then the differences are minimal by the time the air gets to the MAF.

posted by  ChrisV

:ohcrap: Ohhh no intake would help? Hmmm the site said it increases hp, is that only if I had a scoop? I would like to put aftermarket parts in, just to make it mine you know what Im saying?

posted by  Spencer

Remember even if you can find a few bolt ons for it it's not going to be anything remotely quick. Afterall, it has the power/weight ratio of stock Honda Civic EX Sedan.

I'd save the money instead of wasting it on performance parts and just enjoy the luxury. Or possibly upgrade the shitty sound system :thumbs:

posted by  thunderbird1100

Oh I will make it fast, you will see. I just need some money for Stage 3 Brakes and a Supercharger. Itll be fast. :mrgreen:

posted by  Spencer

I see the G2 Supercharger does take the output up to a more tolerable 295hp (still remember you're carrying around 3700lbs of heft) but costs over $5000. Ouch.

posted by  thunderbird1100

True, I was all happy till I saw the price.... Well, Ill chip it first. Then brakes then suspension, then super Charger. I dont think I have any reason to buy another car except for fun or if this one explodes :mrgreen: !

posted by  Spencer

Power to weight ratios do not dictate how a car will accellerate or max out; they are merely a measure of one single aspect of a car's potential. Torque, gearing, traction, weight distribution and centre of gravity are also critical, so a page full of hp/lb stats is actually meaningless.

A 1.8 Corolla wouldn't hold station in a straight line against a Passat V6, let alone through a series of corners...

posted by  BearFace

Thank you :mrgreen: I love my car I was driving it around today, I was messing with the triptonic. I slid it over to triptonic and it forgot to shift to 2nd and it was in first lunged forward :banghead:!!! Never do that again. That suckers fast, has WAY to many buttons. I click and hit and push and turned all sorts of knobs and doo dads. All the windows down, moonroof open, music on, FANTASTIC.

I need new wheels, nice many spoked inexpensive wheels and its fast enough for me right now.

Im going to pick up an Old VW Beetle, and try to find parts for a Myers Manx buggy conversion.

posted by  Spencer

5 valves per cylinder? Odd.

posted by  Oomba

Ok Im slow, why is that odd?

posted by  Spencer

Because it is normally 4

posted by  99integra

Because it's an odd number. When you've got intake and exhaust valves, an odd number means they must have different numbers. Eg: 2 for intake and 3 for exhaust.

posted by  windsonian

Why is it odd though, aren't all Porsches like that? And Volkswagen owns Porsche...so it's common for those cars, right?

posted by  chris_knows

Doesn't the I-VTEC have 4 valves per cylinder and the VTEC has 2?

posted by  99integra

So it doesnt seem like problems would arise from having an extra valve. You guys scared me for a second.

posted by  Spencer

I would think it'd be better

posted by  99integra

Well you never know, too much intake and too less exhaust doesnt sound good to me.

posted by  Spencer

It would be a lot better if there were 3 for the intake because the engine does need its air to run peak performance, but it also needs to shit it out :laughing:

posted by  99integra

Ahhh! btw it has 6 cup holders if anyone cares to know. :orglaugh:

posted by  Spencer

I would have said the other way around ....

Whatever comes in, must go out ... so the same mass of material (gas) must go through both sets of valves. After combustion, the gas would be hotter, thus occupy a greater volume, suggesting that more valves would be required on exhaust.

However, on the other hand, the volume is restrained, so the pressure would be greater for the combusted gas, providing more driving force to expel the exhaust. So maybe the extra one should be on the intake side.... I dunno...

posted by  windsonian

No...it's a 16-Valve in the VTEC :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

You are trying to tell me a 3700lb Passat will outhandle an over 1000lb less Corolla? I'm not saying the Corolla is a handling god, but jeebus that's an out there claim.

Sure hp/tq is only one thing, I never said it will be exactly like a corollas, but it will be in about that same field. Point still is he isnt going to be touching the acceleration or handling of any car in the 220-250hp realm from Honda (Accord)/Mazda (6)/Nissan (Altima)...all weigh a bit less, handle better, and have more power. Matter fact I'd love to see a 4motion VR6 Passat try and beat a new 06 I4 Accord.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Yamaha uses it in their bike motors (some) and it's the standard in Forumla 1.

posted by  thunderbird1100

It's usually 3 intake 2 exhaust...I havent known of one the other way, at least off the top of my head.

posted by  thunderbird1100

i-VTEC is just a newer updated version of VTEC.

Both i-VTEC and VTEC run on 4 valves/cylinder.

And both have SOHC/DOHC head setups in various applications.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Or 24v, for the VTEC V6's.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Yes it will out handle a corolla, I have driven both. Trust me on this one. It most definatly will out handle a corolla.

posted by  Spencer

Yes, the Passat will certainly outhandle the Corolla, and no I'm not trying to tell you anything. The Passat has a relatively sophisticated 4WD system and while the Corolla is lighter, it has a very conventional set-up and is softly sprung. Even here in the UK, where we have our cars are far more tautly-sprung than in the US (there are virtually no straight roads here, save for the motorways...), the Corolla isn't exactly famed for it's speed or handling. The Passat 4-motion is, at least relative to ordinary family cars like the Corolla.

With it's significant torque advantage and it's tighter, more controlled chassis and drive system, the Passat would have the Corolla for breakfast. :laughing:

As for whether the Passat would be as quick as a 220-250hp car, well of course it wouldn't, unless those cars happened to suffer with excessive weight...

posted by  BearFace

I still would like to see at least some handling numbers of the 4motion Passat (300ft skidpad/700ft slalom).

I still dont know if it could "outhandle" say the Corolla S. I know it definatley cannot outhandle the Corolla XRS. The torque advantage doesnt help much at all, really only on launch. It's the upper end hp that carrys the car when you're in the higher revs...(yes, i know hp comes FROM torque..).

No, those cars honda/nissan/mazda arent anywhere near the weight of the 4 motion passat. That's why I said the the 4 Motion Passat would have a hard time beating just the I4 version of the Accord. What's funny to me is with the new Civic EX, now the Civic EX outhandle AND outaccelerate the Passat.

And the 4 motion is loved for its handling over there? Ouch. Must not get the Accord or Altima.

posted by  thunderbird1100

If that would make you feel better, you should maybe look some up. Personally, I don't buy into limited, unrevealing skidpan tests. Like I said, in the UK we have windy, hilly roads everywhere, so handling is something we know something about. Plus, I worked in chassis design for four years after completing my degree...



If your knowledge on handling comes purely from someone else's skidpan tests, you're never going to be convinced. Handling is about so much more than what happens on a frikkin' skidpan or slalom course, believe me...



I'm not familar with the model variants in the US, any more than you are with ours in the UK. Over here, the Corolla and Accord are driven by old, retired people and are not reknowned for their performance or handling, save for the Accord Type S. Toyota's and Honda have sports models of course, but they ain't called Corolla or Accord. If the specific models to which you refer have more power and less weight than the Passat VR6, then of course they'll be quicker. But they're not going to have the grip and poise of the 4WD Passat, no matter how loud you shout.



Ooops, I've got myself a misquoter. I actually said that the VR6 4Motion was held in higher esteem for it's handling and performance than the Toyota Corolla we can buy over here. In general terms, the Passat 4Motion is probably considered average in the handling dept...

Just one more thing. Over here our cars are consistently set-up with firmer suspension and sharper steering than those available in the US - that's a fact. In other words, if a car is considered a poor handler over here, the same model in the US will be even worse, no question. I've spent time working all over America and whenever I've hired either an American or European car, it's suffered with excessive roll and numb steering, although I accept that in the main this is because thre are more straight roads over there and that folk generally prefer a softer ride to sharp handling. I'm sure there are some cars which are set-up with a more sporty bias, but I know for certain that if I had to choose between a Corolla / Accord or a 4Motion Passat, I'd opt for grip, traction, torque and poise every time. :driving:

posted by  BearFace

I dont base handling solely on numbers (people know I dont around here, just read up on some of my NSX discussions). That's why I asked AT LEAST for some skidpad (grip) and slalom (better indication of handling) numbers. Because im sure it'll be pretty hard to find track numbers of a Corolla and VR6 4 Motion Passat together on the same track on the same day.

If I-75 or I-285 in or around Atlanta isnt tight and fast then I dont know what is. People go 80mph (130kmh I think) with 8 other incredibly small lanes parallel that has the width or maybe a CRX. It's a pretty tight, turny and fast drive. I know we get different varients of cars, we must. Because the 4 Motion Passat VR6 isnt known for anything here in America other than being heavy,slow and unresponsive (handling wise). My father got to drive a W8 4 Motion for a day while his 2002 Acura RL (a big 225hp FWD luxury sedan) was getting serviced and he told me his RL felt tighter and more responsive than the W8 Passat did. He definatley liked the extra thrust the W8 provided over his V6 but that was about it. If he had got the VR6 version he would have been throughly unimpressed though. Now the RL here isn't known at all for handling (Although it is a pretty well handling car, for a big luxury car) and that's why I raise question to the 4 Motion Passat being a pretty good handling car.

The current versions of the Accord here are these...

I4 Version = ~ 175hp
V6 version = ~ 256hp

And the six speed coupe version with the HFP package is known to be one of the best FWD handling cars from the factory, like its cousin you guys get over there, the TSX (or just the Accord Euro-R....or w/e you guys call it).

As for the original debate of Corolla vs. VR6 4 Motion. I only noticed one thing so far that the Corolla does have a quicker steering ratio and a foot and half smaller turning circle.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Well are they AWD or FWD or RWD cause in almost all cases rear wheel will be faster Correct? So what luxuxry(sp) sedan can match it? Theirs no way a corolla is luxury. Acura RL what is the price on that?

posted by  Spencer

The problem with the W8 is that it's a severely nose heavy car with far less poise and handling prowess than the VR6 version. In fairness, I don't particularly find the VR6 to be an amazing drive, but I do know that it's reasonably quick and well-balanced for a small/mid-size family car. The Corolla on the other hand... :ohcrap:

The very latest Accord is a nice, average family car (as is the very latest Passat - seen it?) but even the hot versions are decidely normal for my tastes. Us Brits like our high-powered stuff, but we tend to favour handling over raw horsepower, and as such our really fast cars tend to be ones which can manage the power (front-wheel drive and 250+hp is not a recipe for a fine-handling road car) and are therefore either rear-drive or 4WD. Cars like the Subaru STi, the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo and the Audi TT are therefore very popular here. But then we also have the small compacts with up to 250hp, and they also tend to be dynamically very sharp indeed, if a little firm in the ride dept...

Our road tests don't incorporate slaloms or skidpans, we just tend to drive the cars flat out over a series of twisty, country roads and then max them at challenging race-tracks against the clock. Any handling deficiencies are soon highlighted and anything which handles like a dog just gets a bad name and simply doesn't sell.

With the fuel prices over here reaching silly levels (how does the equivalent of £$10 a gallon grab you?), Europeans are very keen on performance diesels right now. In a small, compact car it's typical to see 140-170hp diesels with torque outputs of 230-270lb/ft at 2000rpm, so there's decent performance on tap with great fuel economy (50MPG) and better resale values. Price is another big factor when comparing US models with UK versions; with cars like my VW Golf GT Tdi (140hp diesel) costing the equivalent of $35,000. If I'd wanted to go for something like the Nissan 350z for example, it'd have cost me the equiv. of $49,000 :banghead:

This is why I ride bikes...

Good talking to you.

posted by  BearFace

I thought Formula 1 stopped using the 5 valves per cylinder?

posted by  chris_knows

If given all equal everything, then yes RWD will be quickest in a drag AFTER 300-500ft, AWD will be quickest on launch. RWD>AWD>FWD if we're going down a 1/4 mile here.

The RL is in a luxury car category that the Passat isnt (an RL competes against cars in the $50k range). The Passat competes against the Avalon and alike, big but sill entry level luxury car.

They usually tend to have two types of entry level luxury cars.

Big and unsporty (reletively speaking) - Passat, Crown Victoria and Avalon
Mid-Size with an injection of sport - TSX, BMW 3 series and A4

posted by  thunderbird1100

I thought they still do with the 3.0L V10?

I dont know, I lost track of F1 after M.S. beat the pants off everyone a year back.

I just checked and yeah they are limited to 4v/cylinder. You know when they stopped with 5v?

The engines are still making over 900hp and revving to 19,000rpms, just sick.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Not that nobody uses them, just the majority, the rules allow it though...
Not sure since when.


I got the quote from this site --->
Here's what it says (http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_2.htm)

posted by  chris_knows

http://www.tirerack.com/upgrade_garage/WheelSearch.jsp?changeColor=Choose+C olor&filterSize=17&filterFinish=&filterSpecial=Pricing&autoMake=Volkswagen& autoModel=Passat+GLX+4Mot.&autoModClar=&autoYear=2002

Which Rims look best with Reflex Silver. :badrazz:

My limit is 100 a rim. Id want to spend less than that though.

posted by  Spencer

Yeas, indeed...I guess...as here in the UK...there aint too many V6
VTECS :thumbs:

As for the great handling debate.....in theory, any AWD saloon will out handle a FWD varient or of similar size, however, the Passat is a fairly large car....

Only trouble with FWD is that if you make one with too much power, you get that good ol Torque Steer that I keep mentioning lol :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

Oh I just checked the specs of the BAR-Honda engine and they are using a 4v setup.

posted by  thunderbird1100

OH we've got plenty of VTEC and i-VTEC V6's here.

Accord VTEC 3.0L V6
Odyssey i-VTEC 3.5L V6
Pilot VTEC/i-VTEC 3.5L V6
Ridgeline VTEC 3.5L V6
TL VTEC 3.2L V6
RL VTEC 3.5L V6
MDX 3.5L VTEC V6

posted by  thunderbird1100

The only Hoda on sale here with V6 Vtec is the Accord Coupe I think, and that has the 3.2litre engine :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

Ive seen several of these things on Tv. Do they work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SAVE-GAS-16-HP-Jetta-Passat-Golf-Touareg-w-V 6-31-MPG_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42604QQitemZ8004019990QQrdZ1

posted by  Spencer

FOR ****S SAKE!!!!!!
They are a damn scam, they actually reduce performance and mileage instead of it :banghead:

posted by  99integra

Hmm... iirc I saw a little chinese dude with an entire stand full of things that looked like those. It was on the Speed Channel :ohcrap: It looked promising since it was on the Speed Channel.... Oh well.

posted by  Spencer

I guess thats a TL then. Because the TL here is the only Honda that gets the 3.2L varient of the J series motor. What's the output? Here it is 270hp (258hp on the new rating system).

posted by  thunderbird1100

Just seems odd that they would deliberatley make a bottleneck.

posted by  Oomba

Smaller passages creates a higher pressure, so maybee a higher pressure exhuast is better or quicker? Idk Im thinking in terms of nail guns... Higher Pressure = Better power, better efficientcy. Lowere pressure = The opp.

posted by  Spencer

Are you seriously discussing ricing out a Passat? Come on man... :banghead:

posted by  StiMan

Who said Ricing out? It needs new rims the ones on it are cut looks like somebody Hit it with an Ax on two rims. And the toranado said increase in MPG. Its getting a new intake, and new floor mats.

posted by  Spencer

You dont need a new intake on a Passat. If you wanted something faster you should have gotten something smaller.

posted by  StiMan

:wink2: But I like Passats, I will figure out how to make it go faster its uneccesary but oh I will.

posted by  Spencer

turbo?
dunoif they make them for passats or not

posted by  6000LE

They do but their made expensive 5k.

posted by  Spencer

this is my dusty old ford cortina......a little project im working on...any tips would be great....

posted by  FordHead

You dick lick, that is advertising disguised and you need to introduce yourself
NOBODY CLICK THE LINK :cussing:

posted by  99integra

I was confused why that was here.


Yeah I dropped that project and am starting a Buggy Project.

posted by  Spencer

Ooooppps... I clicked it... I have no clue what it is for...


Spencer, are you planning on turning the Passat into a buggy? Cuz thats crazy... :screwy:

posted by  StiMan

No, No, No. Im buying an old school VW Bug and dropping a Myers Manx Clone Kit on it.

posted by  Spencer

Cause they do....the 1.8 is a Turbo in most cases :thumbs:

Infact...I'm almost certain...now you have me thinking lol :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

As far as I know I dont know of a USDM application of a non-turbo 1.8. All VW/Audi 1.8's were turbo if I remember right.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Ive never heard of a non turbo 1.8, getting a badgeless grill for it, and a different back badge .

posted by  Spencer

As far as I'm aware (done a little research) the new Passat will have the 2.0litre Turbo instead of the 1.8litre :thumbs:


I must be going senile lol....I completelly forgot about the 3.5litre engine that we have in the Legend....and in early NSX's I think they used the 3.0litre

posted by  Cliffy

Yeah I know VW/Audi are dropping the 1.8T for the 2.0T now. Happening across the board.

GTi 2.0T
GLi 2.0T
Passat 2.0T
A3 2.0T
A4 2.0T
TT 2.0T

Etc...

The 91-96 NSX had a DOHC VTEC C30 series 3.0L V6 (270hp). The 97-05 NSX had a DOHC VTEC C32 series 3.2L V6 or C30 3.0L V6 (252hp auto 3.0L, 290hp manual 3.2L).

posted by  thunderbird1100

Wow I didnt know they were dropping the 1.8! Wonder why.... I mean could they be more effiecient or what?

posted by  Spencer

Because the 2.0T is now replacing it. It's a better motor.

posted by  thunderbird1100

LoL, no they are replacing it with a less efficient engine that gets worse gas mileage because they think the sales will rise. :screwy: Seriously though think about things before you type them.

posted by  Pythias

Umm yeah what about the Main reason their popular(VW) is the high mpg, and some higher liter engines get better gas milage.

posted by  Spencer

WOW you TOTALLY missed the Sarcasm in my post. AmAzInG. :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

posted by  Pythias

LOL exactly :laughing:

posted by  99integra

Besides the fact you missed his sarcasum in that, VW isnt really known for getting great gas mileage... Honda is...but VW isnt.

For instance, take the base 2006 2.4L I4 175hp Accord vs. the base 2006 2.5L I4 Altima vs. the base 2006 2.4L 165hp I4 Camry vs. the base 2006 2.5L I5 150hp Jetta.

The Accord gets 26mpg city and 34mpg highway, 30mpg overall
The Camry gets 24mpg city and 34mpg highway, 29mpg overall
The Altima gets 24mpg city and 31mpg highway, 27.5mpg overall
The JEtta gets 22mpg city and 30mpg highway, 26mpg overall

Hardly that great compared to others in its same class. A full 4mpg down overall from the best - the Accord. Just saying, VW isnt overly known for havin outstand fuel economy, at least compared to its japanese competitors.

posted by  thunderbird1100

Thunderbird just pwned. :thumbs:

posted by  Pythias

Those can not be true numbers.

This was taken from a 5 spd manual jetta. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/cache/dd0225db81b14f0ecd7b28a5dd0.png

So cite your numbers I doubt they take in the Desiel versions and TDI's. (its the TDI's Right?)

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=mpgData&vehicleID=18615&browse r=true

posted by  Spencer

Your Message