audi & porsche

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here are some really cool pictures comparing audi and porche that i thought was kind of interesting.

http://media.autobild.de/bild/8/03343da01af019073460e3a09cb04b58_1.jpg

http://media.autobild.de/bild/6/9f5f847ce7a36e39c0dd12c8e45e40f6_1.jpg

http://media.autobild.de/bild/A/d6d4af1c70f3f6aefa4077c9cc18dc9a_1.jpg

http://media.autobild.de/bild/2/60507ed383bbc2a5fbfc68c91827a0a2_1.jpg

http://media.autobild.de/bild/F/ccde0b0958bbc72de8405c2c5481df1f_1.jpg

http://media.autobild.de/bild/A/4e440bc876bda59e3de713d0e7aba9ba_1.jpg

http://media.autobild.de/bild/6/353e549b8c63d5393085b557edad06f6_1.jpg

http://media.autobild.de/bild/F/838f3e2526fca781fccfca6656617cff_1.jpg

posted by  rise2honour

I'm assuming you meant the familliarity in the two cars that made it interesting?

posted by  Cliffy

call me a jackass but I dont really think the pictures are all that cool or interesting

posted by  skeetin870

They're pretty cool....if you've never seen a Porsche or Audi before...

posted by  Mathew

Isn't it written Porsche.
________
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posted by  Rock luver

Yes, lol...if ya knock the 'e' off the end of how he spelled it, ya have a building that connects to the front of your house...I supose, lol

posted by  Cliffy

In french wat he wrote did mean a building tht connects to the front of your house.
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posted by  Rock luver

ya my bad wasnt paying attention. porsche. typo.

posted by  rise2honour

i like how close the cars look in the interior

-dan

posted by  FORDRANGERBOY

But they don't. Almost every car has the same sort of model interior that they follow, but apart from that, these are worlds apart...

posted by  Mathew

i agree but still its really simulare in my opinion.

-dAN

posted by  FORDRANGERBOY

the picture of those two i would really like would be the one of the both of them in my garage.

posted by  omegaV12

do you mean similar????
apart from that, i think the audi is stunning (better in blue)

i saw a Porsche Cayman S today in black and they are quite small!

posted by  True_Brit

These are 2 makes I have serious complaints over.

Ok, porsches are extremely expensive cars, given the fact they don't exactly offer gigantic engine sizes for options and have absolutely ZERO luxury amenities or options. Why do some porsches cost up to 100 grand if it doesn't provide either of those? For the name? Ok, I can see that with a ferrari, (which is another one that doesn't offer any options) but at least that doesn't look like a buick skyhawk on the interior. I do understand that many luxury features add weight to the car which is not idealistic for a sports car, but jeez, offer something more for the money? A bigger engine size at least?


Second is audi. This is probably the worst of the two. At least porsches have very sporty, performance potential reputation which is what makes it cost so much, but audi? I was car shopping about 2 weeks ago and the audi a4 cabriolet is the crappiest car I've EVER seen. It costs 37,000+ msrp and that is without ANY luxury amenities. It doesn't even give leatherETTE seats! It comes standard with FABRIC seats! NOT ONE luxury feature period. The worst part? It has a TINY 1.8 liter engine with hardly any power. And like I said, unlike the porsche, audi isn't exactly a make that has a long glorious reputation of sportiness and performance to sell itself on. BIGGEST over-priced piece of junk ever!

Ok now in regards to the photos, doesn't audi or volkswagen rather own porsche?


Sorry I had to rant :\

posted by  Bronxie

No, Porsche just bought 25% of VW a couple months ago. VW owns Audi and many others. Porsche helped in VW's starting out with the Beetle...which was designed and planned-out or rather 'created' by Porsche.

Now to your Porsche cost vs...engine size rant. The '06 911 Turbo costs around a 100 grand with a 3.6L Boxer twin-turbo with 480hp. 0-60 time is what...3.7-3.8 seconds? Top speed is what...193mp/h or 308-9km/h? Add to that a damn amazingly refined and well-mannered chassis...And you've got yourself a blazing fast car with a 6.

Lastly, where'd you get the lack of 'luxurious amenities' in a 100 grand priced Porsche from? Look at the 911 Turbo's features at the Porsche website...

posted by  Newspeak

Ah, I see the forum was lacking in ignorant rants, but you rectified the situation didn't you?

posted by  Mathew

:stupid: :clap:

posted by  elchango36

have you ever driven a porsce gt2, gt3?, carrera?
or audi s4, s6, rs4, rs6?

posted by  mazda6man

oooh, oooh, pick me, I know the answer...


NO!:banghead:

posted by  elchango36

lets give this man a prize! no expense-paid trip to anywhere you wanna go

posted by  mazda6man

but seriously... mr. rant, dont knock it till you tried it... you have no idea what goes into these cars if youre going to complain about price...

posted by  mazda6man

An ignorant rant? Is that why you gave such a fact-filled, knowledgable response? Do you have any reason as to why my rants are not valid or as you said, "ignorant?" I don't suppose so, because if you did, you probably would have said so already.

I guess the thread was lacking brainless stuck-up idiots who can't even properly respond yet feel they have the right to baselessly criticize a post anyhow, but you have politely assumed that role, didn't you?

As to everyone else... I did try the audi but not the porsche. I didn't specify what models for porsche but I was specifically talking about the boxster. I didn't like the audi at all. It didn't even move.

Regardless, I hold my stance. I am speaking of the ratio of what you get for the money you expend, and those two particular models aren't up to high standards in that regard.

posted by  Bronxie

You want a detailed response proving your lack of knowledge on a subject? Read my reply to your original and ever so enlightening rant.

You have no idea what you're talking about in entirety.

posted by  Newspeak

Sorry I just read it now.

You're right about the 911 turbo, but I specified just now I was referring to the boxster mainly. I checked out the new 911 turbo and I do believe it is a good deal for the money, especially considering the ferrari f430 and its price.

I still hold my stance...you didn't really tell me why I am wrong, or what I said that wasn't true, except you referred to a SINGLE model of porsche that doesn't apply to what my complaint was about, and you didn't even present an argument over audi, so who is the one with lack of knowledge on the subject? You presented a POOR argument in defense of the two models/makes I was referring to.


Porsches are at least a decent deal because they do have a very high resale value.

Anyone have any info an audis that will lighten my opinion about the a4 cabriolet? I already know why porsches cost so much and don't give as much to the consumer, I just wanted to complain. And if you can't give a decent response, just don't bother.

posted by  Bronxie

A Boxter isn't close to being near a 100 grand...while you specifically inferred to a 100 grand Porsche.:doh: I proved to you that Porsches closer to the 100 grand range as you referred to, do indeed have the performance without a damn back to the 60s tank engine and have all the 'luxurious amenities' you could and should want in a car of its class...If you're really serious about this, visit your nearest Porsche dealer and take a Boxter S, Cayman or Carrera for a spin and then come back and tell us if your ever so narrow-minded 'argument' really does hit the nail on the head.

posted by  Newspeak

Oh yeah, I did mention a 100 grand porsche. Let's take the carrera 4s cabriolet for example. Feast on these luxurious features for your money.

Power windows...

Rain-sensor wipers (decent feature)

Integrated dual cup-holders? lol

Cruise control...

The only good features are all options even, and that only includes, 6 disc cd changer? "Navigation module for PCM"?


So basically, a porsche is like a kia with a bigger engine.

What was your argument again?

Don't forget the standard lockable glovebox either!

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera-4s-cabriolet/featuresands pecs/?gtabindex=6

Do you think they rip you off just because it's a sports car? Maybe...I should call and ask why.

posted by  Bronxie

dont forget about the porsche name. decades of race developement that just happen to be used in their cars.

btw, you never answered my question...
have you EVER drove any porsches or audis? beisdes your a4 cab

posted by  mazda6man

e.g the porsche carrera GT
ive never driven an audi or porsche but ive had a ride in an S4

posted by  True_Brit

it definatly feels like its worth every penny no?

posted by  mazda6man

ummmmmm???
i suppose so, im more in to the SLR but thats not included in this post! lol

posted by  True_Brit

well, the slr is AMAZING

posted by  mazda6man

id have that over the carrera GT in black, i think it looks better than silver!

posted by  True_Brit

I've never driven a porsche. I am sure it's awesome to drive. It doesn't mean it's worth the money.

The person who mentioned the racing heritage of porsche is right on the money. That's exactly why it costs a lot. And just using a quick estimate in my head...I suppose if you gave Porsche ferrari-like engines and prorated the cost...it'd probably even be cheaper. So when I think of it like that, ferraris are the bigger rip-offs. Well, the f430 spyder is anyways, but I still like it.

I have driven the audi a4 cabriolet. Some of the other audis are better, much better, but take the a6 for example. Compare it to the other vehicles in its class, its main competitors. It gives you less standard luxury features, smaller engine, and it's more expensive than all of them. (compared to infiniti m35x, lexus es350 and even the acura tl !!!!)

Btw the m35 is really nice on the inside if you haven't seen.

I am going to spend a bit of time on audi's USA website and look at their other models to see if they are all as crappy as the a4 cabriolet.

posted by  Bronxie

i like (alot) the RS4 and RS6 Avant (it looks better than the saloon)

posted by  True_Brit

So what luxury features are you looking for? Whats wrong with those?

And if the ultimate sports car is such a bad deal, whats a better deal? A Mustang GT? I don't see what you're getting at.

posted by  Mathew

ferraris cost are from the heritage as well, and believe me, if you had a ferrari engine in a porsche... it would cost a hair more...

another reason they cost so much. the people that buy them, dont complain about the cost. ive seen the checkstubs from people that baught ferraris, rollsroyces, aston martins, and etc... looks to me like they have no problem writing them out. cuz to them, its meer pocket change. the companies arent going to lower the proce just cuz you cant afford them...

take a look at their s4, s6, s8, rs4, rs6... etc... theyre expensive, and incredibly nice, i say, def. worth the money

posted by  mazda6man

My answer to you is the 2007 SL550, along with all the other vehicles in its class. The MSRP is even lower than the carrera4s cabriolet, and it is jam-packed with luxury amenities and features.

(My dad has a 2004 sl500 and it is even loaded with them)

Now I DO understand that some luxury features add weight to the car and it's likely porsche wants to keep the weight down for more responsive performance.


http://www.mbusa.com/models/features/specs/interior-features.do?modelCode=S L550R&class=07

You can check out any car in this class of vehicles. The XLR, BMW 650i, Jaguar XK, Lexus sc430... They all have every feature you could ever want standard, excluding exterior features...I am just talking about convenience features.

Mind you, all of the cars I mentioned are much cheaper than the porsche. That's my complaint basically, and precisely why I feel porsche rips you off. It could at least give navigation standard like all the other models I named :\

posted by  Bronxie

I said it before and'll say it again. You really need to drive the actual Carrera itself from which automotive legends are made from...Comparing an SL, XK or Lexus sc430 to a Carrera...is plain stupid. A Carrera is solely a performance car or rather near supercar in many of its variations. The cars that you compared it to are luxury cruisers with some performance tossed in as a mere side dish when compared to the legend that is the Carrera.

Take most of the world's supercars for instance...are they extremely expensive? Yes. Do people buy them? Hell yes. Do people buy them for their supercar performance and heritage? Yes. Do people buy them for their luxury features? NO. Do they offer luxury features? Hardly.

posted by  Newspeak

another thing to ponder on. youre looking at luxury amentities right? a 2 seater porsche... just think about this... 2 seater... not really considered something of luxury. or if you get a 4 seater porsche, its meerly an insurance item. cuz the only thing you can really fit back there is a toddler seat

posted by  mazda6man

I attribute that to the fact that most consumers are ignorant and this allows automakers to take advantage of them. Most consumers just don't know shit.

I realize that the cars are made for different purposes and different consumers, but why should that affect the price? Look strictly at what you're getting... and then it should be pretty clear as to why the porsches are rip-offs.

Why not the corvette z06 then? You can get that for about 65k and it is more powerful than most all porsches, including the carrera 4s cabriolet... That has a historic reputation just as well does it not? And it's not a piece of crap unreliable car like all other chevrolets.

What I am talking about is comparisons in the market. When comparing the porsche to any other car that's similar, the porsche is grossly over-priced for the benefits. You are saying that because people are stupid enough to buy it that it is worth the money. It's not. It's still a rip-off. What makes a car expensive (or rather what should) is A. the engine/performance and B. the luxury of it.

The funny thing is that after all this arguing I probably will buy a porsche some day :\ Oh that reminds me of another car that rips you off to hell...maseratis :\

Porsche has taken a step in the right direction with the 911 turbo, however. That's a very reasonable price for it although I would personally prefer to buy an sl600.

Is the carrera gt nice on the interior? I can't really find any pics or info.

TO MAZDAMAN: The sl and xlr are both 2 seaters as well :P

posted by  Bronxie

I attribute that to the fact that most consumers are ignorant and this allows automakers to take advantage of them. Most consumers just don't know shit.
no, while some people dont know whattheyre paying for, theyre not neccessarily getting ripped off. but at the same time, if someone can afford something like that, they probably dont much care

I realize that the cars are made for different purposes and different consumers, but why should that affect the price? Look strictly at what you're getting... and then it should be pretty clear as to why the porsches are rip-offs.
see above, oh, plus... heres something not many people think about... quality of materials and time spent in R&D!!!! something GM and Ford never really thought about

Why not the corvette z06 then? You can get that for about 65k and it is more powerful than most all porsches, including the carrera 4s cabriolet... That has a historic reputation just as well does it not? And it's not a piece of crap unreliable car like all other chevrolets.
nobody likes gm... why? well, its gm....
also, as above, quallity of materials. look at the interior of the corvette. plastic doorpanels, plastic dash, plastic everywhere. now look at Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Maserati... whats in all of those? real leather everywhere. real carbonfibre....... you get what you pay for

What I am talking about is comparisons in the market. When comparing the porsche to any other car that's similar, the porsche is grossly over-priced for the benefits. You are saying that because people are stupid enough to buy it that it is worth the money. It's not. It's still a rip-off. What makes a car expensive (or rather what should) is A. the engine/performance and B. the luxury of it.
see above

The funny thing is that after all this arguing I probably will buy a porsche some day :\ Oh that reminds me of another car that rips you off to hell...maseratis :\
bullshit, see above. now your pissin me off. youre turning out to be incredibally ignorant. may i ask you a question? when was the last time you drove a quattroporte or gransport? never, thats what i f*cking thought

Porsche has taken a step in the right direction with the 911 turbo, however. That's a very reasonable price for it although I would personally prefer to buy an sl600.
wait for the recalls...

Is the carrera gt nice on the interior? I can't really find any pics or info.
http://www.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/normal.jpg?pool=germany&type=image&id =n186-0&lang=none&filetype=normal
gorgeous


TO MAZDAMAN: The sl and xlr are both 2 seaters as well :P
didnt read that part, just read luxury

posted by  mazda6man

Indeed man...you go yapping about all those luxurious amenities your ass needs in a damn sports car for two pages and then start leaning towards a Z06...


Z06 interior:
http://muscle-car-resto.com/images/112_detroitZ06_08_z.jpg

Carrera interior:
http://www.automotiverhythms.com/images/as_2005naia_6lg.jpg

Now tell me which interior is more luxurious? The C6's plastic-infested interior is reminiscent to that of a Cavalier or Cobalt.:clap:

And that Carrera GT really is something...its got the most beautiful interior I've ever seen by far. Seeing the GT upclose makes it look all that much better too.:mrgreen:

posted by  Newspeak

I wish I had a gif of Jeremy Clarkson poking the Corvette's rear end as it popped in and out. Go GM build quality.:laughing:

posted by  elchango36

is that a bloody screw holding the centreconsol on?

posted by  mazda6man

i hate when people sign off for the night, leaving me to wait untill the next day to hear them rant

posted by  mazda6man

its bound to be loaded, its a merc!!!
and yes, things like abs, cruise control, even the smallest things will slow it down, thats why the SLR is slower than the carrera GT :laughing:

posted by  True_Brit

I remember that well, and agree with him, lol, I seem to recall my coments weren't appreciated by some of the members here though, lol.

Okay, as for Porsche/Audi. Bronxie, to be honest I think the responses you've received so far are easing you in to CF quite gently, believe me. Those opinions on Porsche were extreamly narrow minded though, for example, as Newspeak stated, some Porsches have performance figures to match alot of Ferraris, yet have smaller engines, you simply cant base a whole opinion on a car merely from its engine size....unless you're talking about a small car in the first place, where engine size does matter! An d in my opinion, by saying you were talking more about the Boxter in your initial rant just says to me that you can see that you're wrong, and are trying to dig yourself out of that hole you're in, as that post didn't seem like you were talking about a car that costs what a Boxter does!

As for luxury equipment, what would you honestly like? I'm sure standard kit is as reasonable as any performance cars. Climate control, Electric windows, electric seats, leather/heated seats. I'm sure even such items as Sat Nav are given as standard on some Porsches, too! I do understand to an extent what you're saying, but I'm inclind to look in BMW's direction as far as a lacklustre list of standard kit goes on it's lesser models, rather than Porsche. As for Audi, you get what you pay for, full stop. If you dont want the 1.8T engine, pay a bit more for the 3.2-litre engine, lets not be forgetting that Audi isn't really a luxury brand, hence why their standard kit doesn't always stretch to leather upholstry, to be honest, their velour is just as comfy! Other than that, standard kit often stretches to Climate Control (even on 1996 models), Sat Nav, Electric front & rear windows, electric seats and electric mirrors.

So, I think we've addressed the issues raised, would you not agree?

posted by  Cliffy

Has zero to do with why exotic cars and small run sports cars cost what they do. Ever look into the economics of volume runs of any product?



I do look "strictly at what yore' getting" the differnce is I know quit a bit about how cars are made, and what it takes to make cars that do what these do. I know Porshce's arent' ripoffs, but it woudl take more time than I have to explain why. In fact, I've learned it by paying attention to EVERY car over the last 30+ years. If you can't "get it" from what's already been explained to you in this thread, then yore 'a closed mided fool with no clue. And I can't be any nicer than that about it.



Two things... the Corvette shares componennts with lesser Chevrolets. the engie architecture is shared with teh truck lines (even teh Z06 uses basically a modded LS series engine and that tooling ahas been paid for). Porsche uses almost completely unique parts, and the engines are ONLY used in Porshces. Porsche is a smaller company than GM, and the production runs are smaller. that transliates DIRECTLY into higher costs per part. And when the parts are higher quality to begin with (and as much as I love Corvettes, the molded fiberglass bodies and more plastic interiors cost less to make then the Porsche parts. Period)... If you're a retard that ONLY looks at hp per dollar, than ANY new car is a total rip off, as I can make a 600 hp engine with 700 lb ft of torque, for under 2 grand total, and put it into a $500 used car.




That's utterly simplistic and puts you at a 13 year old's mentality about cars. Period. The fact that you keep arguing it proves that you're just getting used to testosterone flowing though tyour body and think power is everything. It's not. Luxury featuyres isn't everything. Exclusivity, quality, production costs, history, overall ability, and more all factor in.

posted by  ChrisV

Yeah, that is one if the things that shows how much I detest Clarkson.

Urethane flexible bumpers flex in and out like that. It's part of the design and not a sign of bad quality. Same for injected resin body panels.

I think I recall getting on Cliffy's case for not understanding that, either.

posted by  ChrisV

*Edits thread title as it was really starting to bug him*



It was you I was refering to here, lol. I actually think Clarkson's one of the funniest men on TV. Dont take this the wrong way, Chris, but I think alot of the time people in the US dont understand our humour. Oh, it was about the leaf springs that you pulled me up on before, lol, I think I came round to your way of thinking though......eventually! :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

Two things: you're right, it was the leaf spring thing, and that pisses me off about Clarkson, too, as there are enough wanna-be car nuts that take his rants seriously.

Secondly, and I've gone on about this here before, I do believe... I get British humor. I LOVE British humour as it's more closely related to my own sense of humor. Monty Python, Benny Hill, Eddie Izzard, Little Britain, Black Adder, Ab Fab, the Office, and much more are in my personal collection. My dislike of Clarkson has nothing to do with getting british humor or not. he can indeed be funny. Most of the time, however, he's simply a twit. And he's factually wrong on enough counts that I dislike his abilty to promote his opinion as something to be listened to when he's trying to be a serious auto journalist. Funny automotive journalism is found on Sniff Petrol.

BTW, my wife does stand up comedy and improv comedy (like on the show Who's Line...") She's also big on British humor, and I spend a lot of time at her shows, or other comedy shows, and have helped write her material. I know from funny, have a great sense of humor, and spend a LOT of time laughing.

But cars are my second passion, and I take knowledge of them very seriously, and have for the last 30+ years.

posted by  ChrisV

I take what I said about our humour back, atleast in your case, and some others I'm sure, lol. Problem is, Chris, Clarkson is respected as an auto journalist because of his mix of sense of humour and knowledge that is mixed with both Richard Hammond and James May, in Top Gear atleast (have to admit James May knows his stuff, lol), I also think that most modern Auto Journalists lack technological experience, and base what they report more on what a certain car is like in tyheir eyes. I haven't got as much experience as you by atleast 20yrs...I think, lol, so obviously you'll know, more so than me on many occassions, when what he says is false, as you've experienced probably a few more cars than I have....Oh, and Little Britain = :rock:

posted by  Cliffy

ChrisV, tell us a good joke, im poor at jokes but ive got humour!

posted by  True_Brit

what happened to the good old days when real sports cars (porsches, etc) did not come wit any luxuries...what about the days when they didnt even have air conditioning or radios???? back then people still bought these cars because of the driving experience, not because of the luxury features. now people like urself expect these vechiles to also best the finest luxury machines as well. what happened to cars that had character and were not just appliances like every other car they seem to make now.

and i thought i was the ignorant newbie

posted by  omegaV12

classics had luxury too, look at jaguar xk120's or triumph spitfires etc etc

posted by  True_Brit

yea i know...but not the luxury that some cars seem to overdo with now. they were still sports cars, no luxo saloons as u brits call them

nice spaceness by the way

posted by  omegaV12

what do you mean "luxo saloons"

posted by  True_Brit

u know mercedes S-Class, Lexus LS, BMW 7-Series, etc.

posted by  omegaV12

we had luxo saloons, exscuse me if i make no sense, im going to bed soon

posted by  True_Brit

You just made about 10 different assumptions. I am only mentioning engine power because that's virtually ALL porsche offers. That is my argument. That's all it gives in my view, so if that's all it gives, why don't we at least get more of it for the price? You are making gigantic assumptions about my argument and I don't appreciate that. Read what I am saying entirely and take it for what it's worth, not for what can enhance your argument against me.

The problem with everyone's arguments is that you are basically approaching this with an "all-or-nothing" attitude. Parts of my arguments are entirely true as are parts of your counter-arguments. Yes it is true porsche has a strong heritage and high quality parts and exceptional performance, but it is also true it offers much less than almost all of the other cars in its class.

You can make a good argument for a corvette vs. porsche carrera4s cabriolet, but can you make that same argument for carrera4s vs. sl550? How about BMW 650i? I suppose they use crappy parts as well? Or perhaps it's the fact that those cars have no real reputation, right? Sorry but your argument is poor in that regard. Compared to the rest of the market, porsches give you short end of the stick. Isn't that what a real market is based on? Do you not know what something should be worth based on the prices of OTHER similar products? If there is no standard, how do you know what it's worth? By what the company tells you?

You are a true car appreciator. You appreciate reputation, performance, heritage and quality. I am a businessperson and a consumer. I see it from a different perspective.

That is essentially what this all boils down to is just a difference of perspective. If you guys can't expand your frame of perspective to understand what I am saying, then you are the narrow-minded ones...not me.

I do appreciate porsches for what they're worth, but I can't help but feel like there is more to be desired, from my perspective anyways.

posted by  Bronxie

I'd never call the SL550 or 6 series competitors of the Carrera, nor should you. The Carrera is a track machine...a street-legal race car. I already told you that the cars you call its 'competitiors' are luxury cruisers with performance tossed in on the side. This 'debate' is going nowhere. You're repeating the same things over and over again due to how you've settled all of this up to just that one mislead perspective in that ever so hard head of yours.

posted by  Newspeak

Well, I mean business competitors. I think it's safe to say that people who are looking to shop for 911s of any trim might also be looking at the sl or the 6series. The vehicles themselves do differ obviously...mainly because the sl and 6 series carry more weight and that makes them less responsive.

Anyone who has driven a porsche and an sl or 6 series can you post your thoughts? Does the porsche perform better and drive better? I would love to try a porsche. I was looking at the boxster but I wanted the tiptronic automatic transmission and it made it go slightly over my budget :$

posted by  Bronxie

Ok, the above is your initial post in this thread, you basically say that Porsche offer too smaller engines and no luxury extras.

Now, here is one of your recent posts in this thread. This might seem a little worthless to you, but why on earth would you, one minute say that Porsche dont exactly offer gigantic engines, and the next minute, say that power is about all that Porsche offers? surely the fact that Porsche offer alot of power, makes the fact that a massive engine doesn't really matter? It just seems like you've contradicted yourself a little, so really, it's YOU who needs to read what you've written....not us! The reason I've quoted all of the two posts, is so we can compare what you say....

posted by  Cliffy

quick question, what do you have against maserati?

posted by  mazda6man

woho, whos got a problem with Maserati???
ive been having a quick glance at previous posts and i cant spot it, ive had a ride in a 4200GT and it was awsome, the owner sold it because it was getting expensive to run so he bought a Mitsu Galant VR4/6 V6 for £20,000

posted by  True_Brit

Find me somebody who's truly serious about buying a Carrera or a Carrera owner who considers the 'competitiors' that you so name as alternatives...

posted by  Newspeak

i remember a top gear episode where they were taking a bmw 6, a porsche and something else round the moors in wales where they said the BMW 6 was the most responsive out of all of them (correct me if im wrong or off course a little)

posted by  True_Brit

LOL. Yeah, because they aren't sports cars. They are luxury cars with big engines but not meant for performance right? ok then.


To cliffy: I didn't contradict myself. You interpreted my first post the wrong way. You assumed I was saying they give no power, and I didn't say that. I said they don't give enough for the money. My point was basically, if that is all I am getting, couldn't I at least get more for the money?

I in no way said porsches have small engines...they don't, but for the money, I'd like to expect a little more in that area, considering there isn't any luxury they are offering. Yes, even factoring in the heritage, reputation and quality of parts, I still think there is a gap that needs to be filled. That's my opinion :P

posted by  Bronxie

you cant say the BMW 6 isnt a performance car or the merc sl cos they are!!
i suppose the BMW M6 and the SL65 AMG are just "luxury" cars! i doubt it

posted by  True_Brit

hey buddy! maseratis? whats youre deal with those?


am i hard to see or something? or what?

posted by  mazda6man

whos got a problem with maserati's???

posted by  True_Brit

this bronxie character... he mentioned it a while ago, and i was trying to find out why, but i guess im invisible

posted by  mazda6man

It looked alot like a contradiction to me, maybe I just interpereted it wrong. The fact still remains though, that what has been stated here so far, from most of us, is true to life :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

Aside from their Quattroporte, Maserati produces over weight, overpriced, ugly, average performing sports cars with terrible transmissions and no original identity.

The MC12 doesn't count.

All Maseratis should be given to the Devil, and burned in hell.

posted by  What

That's probably the most sensible thing I've seen you post, lol

posted by  Cliffy

That's kind of my feeling on Maseratis as well. They aren't THAT powerful, they are not EXTREMELY luxurious, and yeah most of them are heavy. I love their styling but I would feel very ripped off if I bought one. More-so than if I bought a porsche...

I dunno, maybe I have to drive one, but then again, most people are impressed by quality vehicles they drive the first time. It's when you own one you realize it's true flaws. It's kind of like meeting chicks :\

CLIFFY: I like porsches ... if I didn't, I wouldn't care what they did to their cars. I mean surely I'd have a better argument complaining about kias or something right?

posted by  Bronxie

hey what, the last time you actually drove a maserati was??? see, i dont know if youguys are wondering why i ask this... but i can honestly say that i have... and a guarentee, its nothing like youve ever driven. in fact, chances are you never will get a chance...

they happen to cost a lot for a reason. engineereing, materials, not to mention the fact that theyre not exactly made on a line like most other cars... theyre put togather by hand. ensureing the best possible quallity. now you may say, if theyre put togather by hand, whats to say they didnt make a mistake? well, they do inspect every detail of the car, no part goes left unnoticed,.


and how do you meen terrible tranny?
it has a transmission that if your foot is not on the throttle, youre not going anywhere? i think thats a sweet idea. plus, the hydroelectric paddle shifters, the same thing that both ferrari and aston martin uses, pretty sweet, it shifts hard, quick, no lag unlike like some of the new "usual" cars that are coming out with an electric paddleshift mode.


by no original identity, i assume youre talking about the gran sport aka spyder aka GT? so what, same car, they just name is as the moddify things in it, as the years go by. as youre not a dumbass and can realize that theyre the same car, there wont be any confusion.

posted by  mazda6man

nothing?

posted by  mazda6man

Let this thread die already:guns: .

posted by  elchango36

they arnt that powerful??? where on earth did you get that from? my mates 4200GT had 400bhp (engine development in co-ordination with ferrari), 0-60 in 4 secs, really luxurious, great styling, gear change great, you dont need a smooth gear change where you dont feel it in a sports car and What saying what he did, hes completely wrong!!!
you dont know what your on about until you either drive one or ride in one!!!

posted by  True_Brit

Every car's driving experience is pretty much unique. So saying things like "nothing you ever driven before" is so cliche and overrated.

No, I've never driven the car before. My opinions were based off of multiple reviews I've read on the car.


Dude...I can afford that car right now. I have a very well paying job and proper investments.

posted by  What

Does a piggy bank hold that much then? :laughing:

posted by  Cliffy

No, but Chase bank and my properties do.

My wall holds up my degrees.

posted by  What

well i can reckon 'What' you should say what you would buy and why?

posted by  Veeduba

I'm sure he will.....if and when he's off his ban! :laughing:

posted by  Cliffy

I don't want to be inappropriate by posting on an old topic but I really do appeciate porsches now. I was being an idiot before and my outlook on cars all together was out of whack. Porsches are worth every penny (I even test drove one the other day)

These forums have helped me shape what I like to call my "car identity." Everyone has one, I think.

posted by  Bronxie

good good, nice to hear! do you feel complete now?

i dont acyually like porsches really, i think they look to much the same, sort of! so do audi sort of, but they appeal more to me!

posted by  True_Brit

thats good. what made you switch ideas? the testdrive? research? what?
they handle incredibally well huh

posted by  mazda6man

Maybe he's been struck by the ways of CF....this place often takes that effect on its members! I personally think Porsches are nice cars, but I'm not sure how I'd feel driving on a regular basis with the engine in the back....in most cases!

posted by  Cliffy

^^^

Although I have been conditioned to be a babbling ass hole here, I considered all the posts on this thread, especially the guy (I think chrisv?) who was saying porsche uses top of the line quality parts, I researched a bit, and I just appreciate them more. I am a sports car person. I taught myself how to drive manual transmission just for the sake of test driving a porsche and really getting the true meaning of the car. All automatics can tend to be the same except for how fast they go.

When I joined these forums I was looking for a luxury car with performance, but that is so pointless and not me. Hence, I am stuck with my 325ci convertible (I begged my dad for a sportier car but he made me get this one about 3 days ago)

Luxury adds weight, and porsches merely wouldn't be what they are with all that added baggage.

Anyways what I have decided to do is buy an old miata or an old z3 and make it my little ongoing project like a lot of people do here. I mean I am not gonna take it apart and put it back together, but just make it my fun car.

posted by  Bronxie

I wish I was 'stuck' with a 325Ci! :ohcrap:

posted by  Cliffy

Really? Cause someone made a comment on my topic to boost the engine power by saying I should have gotten a sportier car rather than a car "suited for an executive's wife."

posted by  Bronxie

... yeah, you dont "get stuck" in a bmw... unless of course by stuck, you mean, in a ditch...

posted by  mazda6man

or if you accidentally get caught up onto one of dick datardly's and mutleys evil plans on wacky races :laughing:

posted by  True_Brit

Our US freinds will never get that one, lol :laughing:

A sportier car might have suited modifications better is what was probably intended :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

ooo ooo ooo, i wanna learn, whats it mean?

posted by  mazda6man

Well, it's a really nice car and I like it. I just know that A. The new style is coming out early spring (I actually saw the new 3 series coupe when I picked this up from the dealership) and B. It's relatively heavy (about 3600 lbs). So no matter what I do to it, it's still weighed down. But whatever. Just trying to break the engine in now.

I just wish I got a manual transmission at least.

posted by  Bronxie

heres something that might help???
http://www.comedy-zone.net/cartoons/characters/wacky-races.htm

posted by  True_Brit

Are you kidding? Some of us grew up on that stuff in the '60s and '70s. It was an American cartoon...

posted by  ChrisV

yeah,,, i thought that aswell! i certainly knew it wasnt english, plus it was made/produced by hannah-barbara or whatever they were called

posted by  True_Brit

oh schnap! i remember that cartoon... its just been a loooong time. my grandparents had tapes of that cartoon that i used to watch all the time when i was a wee lad

posted by  mazda6man

i used to like the pair in the tank!

posted by  True_Brit

LOL I REMEMBER THAT. I loved that.

posted by  Bronxie

I'll confess, it's been a while sinse I last saw it.....I never thought it was American, lol...appologies!

posted by  Cliffy

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