C230 Engine Swap

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Is it possible to have an engine swap between a Mercedes C230 Kompressor and a Toyota Supra? The C230 would be recieving the Supra engine. If it is feasible, would the Supra engine still retain its amazing tuner abilities?

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

No engine cares what car it's in. Anything that can be done to it in the original vehicle, can be done in any other vehicle.

That being said, that's going to be a VERY tight fit, with a much longer, taller, heavier engine in the front of a Mercedes Pinto. :mrgreen:

posted by  ChrisV

Ok thats cool. Where would one go to get this engine swap done?

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

In order to make it financially feasable, you'd have to do it yourself. Paying someone else to do it would be much like taking rolls of $100 bills and lighting them on fire.

But I'm sure there are Supra specialist shops willing to take money to do it...

posted by  ChrisV

Haha Mercedes Pinto. Hey now Mister, there happens ot be a very respectable Merces C230 race car(that is the one thats a hatchback right?).

posted by  DSMer

Yeah, and there are many respectable pinto race cars, too (Turbo Joe Morgan has a street driven Pinto that runs low 10s with th eturbocharged 2.3).

My contention on teh Mercedes C230 Kompressor hatchback is that the size, layout, drivetrain, and even a bit of styling, is very similar between teh two cars. Compact, 2.3 liter, RWD, 2 door hatchback. While the Pinto doesnt' come stock with a turbo or supercharger, the Ford 2.3 liter turbo bolts in (considering the difference in cost, I figure making them a tiny bit more even is fair).



Look at that roofline and quarter window trim treatment... The Mercedes has modern mercedes detailing, but it's pretty clear that they are very similar cars...

And personally, I'd rather have the Pinto.


posted by  ChrisV

What the problem with remaking designs to a no longer existing car? Auto makers do it all the time. Honestly I think the way the Mercedes came out to familiarize the pinto was a fluke. I mean honestly, how man different interpetations can you have of a hatchback, coupe, kompressor? They only had the choice of making it look like it does now or making it resemble something of a a tiny 240SX or Eclipse.

None the less, its still a cool car from Mercedes that even affordable for the average car buyer.

posted by  DSMer

Ditto. The Benz C230 Coupe is a very nice car for the price. I think the styling is great, and it is able to be purchased by many. :thumbs:

posted by  StiMan

Well, I am geting confused. How did we get from the Supra engine swap to a Pinto???

What type of store would one visit to have an engine swaP??

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

Not disagreeing at all, nor did I say the Mercedes actualy copied the Pinto. I just find it amusing that this supposed entry level Mercedes looks so much like, in shape and layout, a 30 year old entry level Ford. there were alot of cars of that size and drivetrain layout back in the day, from RX3s and RX2s, to 510s, to Corolla SR5s, to Vegas, to Colts, etc. So it didn't have to look so much like a Pinto, but it does, including window trim. And I find that amusing. Usually low end cars try to look like higher end cars, not the other way around... ;)

And I'd rather spend less money to get the Ford and the difference in cost building it up to be vastly faster and handle better.

posted by  ChrisV

We got there because I called teh car a Mercedes Pinto as an offhand comment. DSM asked about it.

As for a "store" to go to, as I said, you need to look to Supra shops. There's no kit you can buy at a mail order store, nor any shops specializing in this swap. It's concievable that without cutting the firewall, the Supra engine won't even fit, as it's tall, long, and with the turbo bits, rather wide. AND heavy.

posted by  ChrisV

i think the main differnce between the 30 year old car and the 3-4yr old car is the car park prestige and manufacutres warrenty. Im pretty sure that 30 years of development had done quite alot for the ride handeling etc etc, but i know you could incorperate this into your rebuild.

posted by  cinqyg

Ok, do you guys know of any good Supra shops in the New York area?

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

Considering the cost difference? Even factoring in the new cost of both and adjusting for inflation, the Mercedes is more expensive. Actually the Mercedes is pretty cheap inside. It's not a prestige car to a lot of people, but a cheap entry level car. Never said that teh ride/handling/etc hasnt[ been developed farther. So has fit and finish, as well as NVH.

Still the thing is that out of all the designs that small cars have had, the Mercedes looks so much like it was a Pinto clone with Mercedes grille and badging. And I find that amusing.

And yeah, I was thinking of that withthe idea of rebuilding one. the front suspension of the Pinto is already dual A arm with good geometry. Liek teh Mercedes, to get the most out of it, as shock swap would be appropriate. I'd want to put a Miata or RX7 rear in it to get IRS. Not absolutely necessary for good handling, but just to say it has it. :hi: race bucket seats, and redo the dash a bit, and 300-400 hp turbo 2.3, and it would be a great competitor for not a lot of money... (I could build it for under $5k total...)

This is the interior of the grey Pinto pictured above. I'd use different door panels, but the idea is there...



posted by  ChrisV

If you go to a Supra specialist and ask them to swap a 2JZ into a C230 they are going to laugh at you first. Then laugh some more... and possibly still be laughing until they realize that you are serious. Then they will probably send you a Mercedes specialist. I don't know why ChrisV said Supra specialist, just because its a Supra engine going into a Mercedes car does'nt mean they automaticly know how to mod the mercedes.

In order for this job to be accomplished you need a someone from MercedesBenz and a Supra engine specialist. Short of a few people who are good with metal. Althought you'd save alot more money just upgrading the engin in the C230 to arround 500-600bhp. I don't care what all those pantsy boys say about "The Supras Engine is Legendary". Thats a bunch of bullshit flying through the air just waiting to land in somones brain. Any engine can be made to perform well for. The Supra needs a very big engine because the car is a cow, and handles like a boat. The 2JZ is good for a Supra, not for a C230. Thats just the honest truth...

posted by  DSMer

Because Mercedes people simply won't put a non-Mercedes engine in a Mercedes, but Supra tuners would put the Supra engine in anything. I've seen it done in a Mustang, and in an RX7.

Doing an engine swap won't require a Mercedes specialist at all, other than to determine what wires need to go where.

I pretty much agree. I'd rather see an LS1-LS2 in there. ;)

posted by  ChrisV

Ok, so your saying that one can actually get 600 horsepower on the C230?? How?

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

*Note = I'm not too familiar with mercedes besides the SLR, so this is just from a 15 minute research period.

The basics, I guess, the turbo (can't find a supercharger)
http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=34127&cat_id=1&cat_name=Forced %20Induction&sc_id=3&sc_name=Turbo%20Kits

New connection rods and Piston heads
http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=5450&cat_id=5&cat_name=Engine% 20Components&sc_id=15&sc_name=Pistons%20&%20Rods
http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=5452&cat_id=5&cat_name=Engine% 20Components&sc_id=15&sc_name=Pistons%20&%20Rods

New Ignition system
http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=2632&cat_id=17&cat_name=Igniti on&sc_id=69&sc_name=Ignition%20Systems

Boost controller
http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=31025&cat_id=13&cat_name=Engin e%20Management&sc_id=52&sc_name=Boost%20Controllers%20(manual)

New Crankshaft

Governor = off

etc, etc. I dunno about the 600 horses statement, so, we wait on DSM's reply.

posted by  Godlaus

Okay. I will wait. Dsmer, we are waiting.

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

I always figured the wiring was the hardest part of the engine swap. Cutting and welding metal is'nt rocket science, its just tedious. If you're good at it then it will fly by as a task. However wiring the engine in is something that would need to be sat down and possibly drawn out wich is why I said you may need a Mercedes specialist.

Haha LS1 in a Mercedes?. Honestly I like the Small Block Chevys in the Datsun Z's. I'm going to put a 350 in a Datsun Z one of these days, its only a matter of time until I can afford a nice crate 350.

I'm not sure the certainties of reaching 600HP in a C230, but the race C230 that I was allowed to see at a closed event had over 520HP to the wheels. I supppose for a car its size you would'nt need anything more than 400HP to make it a great street car.

posted by  DSMer

Ok, thats all I needed to hear. However Dsmer, would any Mercedes shop be able to help with getting that kind of power? And how much would it cost? Is there like a website devoted to this? If there is can someone post a link.

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

Haha, well this car I speak of had a rull spot welded race chassis with a custom 4 inch exhaust. The engine had been rebuilt with streghtened internals, race cam gears, an entirely new race valve assemlby and ported heads. I beleive it was bored out and had a custom made crankshaft. Not to mention the suspension upgrades. Its not easy and sure as hell not cheap.

I can't tell you how much it costed, I did'nt do the upgrades. But its a race car so I'm assuming $100,000+ not including man hours. I don't know if there is a place dedicated to this kind of thing. Thats for you to look up...

posted by  DSMer

Well, if that guy put over 100k into the car, why didnt he get an SL or something a little more powerful to start with??

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

If you have to ask that question, I don't think you understand.

posted by  DSMer

Well, please go ahead and enlighten me.

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

Knowledge is useless if its only cooped up in your head..........

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

What I think he means is this: if you can't understand teh concept of wanting to take a lesser car anad making it more than a "superior" car, then it can't be explained easily.

Even if it might cost more money to do, sometimes it's more important to create somethig yourself than it is to buy it already done. Sometimes teh sherr uniqueness of the end result is satisfaction enough.

posted by  ChrisV

I get it now. Thanks.

posted by  SNiPeRViRuS

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