Perhaps picking up a new used car..nobody saw this coming

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Got a possible straight trade in front of me for the following..lets start with my car

2001 honda civic lx 5-speed sedan
tan inside and out
2 sets of wheels
almost new performance suspension
new clutch and input shaft bearing
new motor mounts
new brakes all around
very good mechanically
aftermarket stereo that bumps
etc.etc. other stupid shit
118k miles


1998 ford mustang gt 5-speed
Steeda tri-ax short shifter
new intake manifold
mach 460 stereo
power driver seat, fogs, power windows, doors, etc.
new tires
BBK cold air
BBK underdrive pulleys
Summit off-road H-pipe
91k miles

The reason I am asking is I dont know much about mustangs..I hear they are pretty reliable and powerful but I wanted to see if any domestic experts had anything to add here

Also, how does the 4.6 liter v8 compare to the 5.0 from the previous stangs

posted by  newyorker

what happened to "i don't like domestic cars"?

posted by  windsonian

newyorker's mood changes depending on the time of the month.

posted by  Mathew

Wow guys you totally answered my questions :thumbs:

posted by  newyorker

What also happened to that new engine that you already paid the deposit for and is being shipped from Japan?

posted by  Nissan_Altima

Wow a great answer from a USP all are a bright bunch arent you. The engine order was cancelled and the deposit returned, why; thats noone's business but mine. Now stop wasting my time since you dont know shit, thank you so much!

posted by  newyorker

We're wasting YOUR time???

How can we take you seriously on posts like the one above if you COMPLETELY contradict it, and then don't even try to explain it to us?

We'll just assume everything you say means nothing.... like the post above... so it would be OUR time being wasted if we bothered imparting any knowledge or opinions on you.

btw, for people interested, that quote was from this thread (

posted by  windsonian

Huh? I don't go to USP...

Everything you say is SUCH bullshit. How can any one take your pathetic attempts at posts seriously?

posted by  Nissan_Altima

Wow you guys are retarded..great job! Im surprised you all passed reading comprehension.

posted by  newyorker

Sorry you go to UPENN..students from both schools are usually so stuck up that I cant tell them apart.

posted by  newyorker

I'm pretty sure everyone understands your question. We just can't comprehend whether you're telling the truth this time or not...

That being said, I can't help you with your claimed problem.

posted by  chris_knows

Forget it guys, the car is sold.

posted by  newyorker

How many students from Penn do you know? How about from USP? I hate to break it to you, but the two schools are COMPLETELY different with COMPLETELY different students.

That's actually not important though. I remember when you were arguing with a member (the name and thread escapes me, sorry) and he said that when you are wrong, you do one of two things: you either change the subject or just ignore the question. You just did the former of the two.

Response fixed.

posted by  Nissan_Altima

We did... we can comprehend that you said you have no intention of buying a domestic, then expect us to completely disregard that and just answer your questions about buying one without even querying your apparent about face. I guess either you realised your own naive attitude, or something changed your mind. Either way, is it so unfair for us to know which, before we spend time trying to help you on your latest fad.

My guess is that, with your being impressionable, someone at your new car yard job told you that domestics are good, and you dropped your old opinions and took on his/hers wholus bolus. But hey, I might be way off.

posted by  windsonian

Guys, guys,'s a regular ricer transition. Eventually they see that their cars suck and think they have to go to big American muscle to make up for their wrongs.

I think he's being serial.

posted by  jedimario guys really cant comprehend a question im surprised some of you figured out how to register for this forum

posted by  newyorker

Seriosly that car will SUCK.

The NA mod motors BLOW. Then your buying a 2 valve, which are even more pitiful. I dont even think the 98s are the PI heads, which are insanely scktacular.

Dont buy the car, it will be EXTREMELY slow til you get pretty far into mods.
I watched a car JUST like this get walked by and intake and exhaust automatic scion tC, call BS all you want but it happened twice in a row, once from a roll once from a dig.

And why trade your car when you have a K series on order, which will be delivered in justa few months?

posted by  Enthusiast

Oh and youll love working on the mod motors in those cars. IT SUCKS. I can do timing belts on most hondas in under an hour.

I wont even attempt to install LT headers on a SN95 or new platform. Screw it. Those motors suck to work on and the power you get from mods make it even less worth it.

posted by  Enthusiast

That order got cancelled and I got my deposit money back...had a change of heart and dedcided that school payments were more important than an engine, and would save me from loans in the future.

posted by  newyorker

The only question you actually asked was:

You never actually asked anything about the trade, despite saying "the reason i ask".

How's that for comprehension?

posted by  windsonian

No, I asked if anyone has any knowledge about that mustang...funny how everything has to be specifically pointed out to you, and that you cant understand an implied question in something

posted by  newyorker

so, what you're saying is that your idea of "reading comprehension" is me being able to understand what you're saying, even when you don't say it.

Don't bitch about people not answering a question never asked. Sure, maybe there was a question implied there, but what about my question? Okay, I'll word it a bit more nicely.

What has happened to change your mind regarding domestic cars?

posted by  windsonian

I did say it.

Nothing really changed my mind, I still think they are rattly, and not very well made aside from the engine and drivetrain, and are not engineered up to par with their Japanese and European competitors, but they are things I can live with given the performance that a GT offers..unforunately like Enthusiast said, that 4.6 isnt the best to mod, plus the car is already gone nor is it an all season driver because the back end is light as all shit. Working at a dealership now, I can get a lot of experienced feedback on my choices as far as quality and such go since my boss has been doin his job for quite some time, but its up to me to reach out and get more info cause hes in his 50s and doesnt know shit about modding, he just has his 911 turbo and hes OK lol

posted by  newyorker

so the domestic's superior performance changed your mind?

posted by  windsonian

Its not their superior performance, they certainly dont all outperform other cars, but with cars like the new Saturn Aura, and the F150 being a very solid truck, I duno I just kinda opened my eyes and realized that not all of them are piles of shit

posted by  newyorker

Your retarded.

The mustang is a fine all season driver, if you dont act stupid. All these people bitch about RWD in the rain and snow, and FWD is better. FWD is only a crutch so people can act stupid in bad weather and stay out of trouble.

My car has always had UHPS tires or better on it and I drive it no matter what. Even in light snow it is no problem.

If your worried about driving it in the winter, stay with FWD. Youll hurt yourself with a real car.

posted by  Enthusiast

Plain and simple domestic performance cars can go faster for the same invested in an import.

posted by  Enthusiast

No im sure an NSX with the money invested to match the price of a corvette will demolish it

posted by  newyorker

I talked to a guy who is on his 6th mustang already (and this is the second cobra) and he said that even the v6 ones are not drivable in the snow, he tried every year and they didnt move. You live in texas where it snows every time president bush makes a smart statement, I live in PA where it snows every winter, and sometimes hard too

posted by  newyorker

Yeah, but for the price of a 2005 NSX, I could buy 2 2005 Corvettes lol.

posted by  chris_knows


posted by  jedimario

Says the one with the slow Si

posted by  newyorker

Yes but when you get an NSX you get an NSX, youre not just another yuppy with a mohawk and 8 cylinders, not that the vette is a bad car, but its just a fact..NSX is more exclusive, looks better IMO, and just overall tickles me more..and everyone I know..besides I dont think a non Z06 or ZR1 (coming soon I hope) vette is a waste of money

posted by  newyorker

Uh C5s are not expensive at all.

And it takers ALOT of money to mod an NSX. And you dont get much from them.

Their is a saying among NSX owners. How do you accumulate a small fortune while building a boosted NSX...Start with a large fortune.

posted by  Enthusiast

Maybe he should learn to drive.
And Ive been all over the country, and driven in all kinds of bad conditions. Im stickin with RWD.

Shit Ive been in a snow storm in Wyoming visiting my brother while driving a 05 Dodge Ram with 20 and a 275mm foot print (the wider the worse they perform in snow and rain), a LSD, and an unloaded bed. I had no problems.

Ive driven the maro in snow. All you have to do is not act like a retard. I dont even leave the traction control on. Also leaving a stop in 2 or 3rd helps to.

posted by  Enthusiast

Hey whats up i know this isnt the right Thread to ask this question but maybe you can help me out

My car Is a 1998 Honda Accord 4cyl VTEC I want to put in a New Header for it but it says.........Non-VTEC 2.0L Inline 4-Cylinder N/A Engine..... on the part description does that mean i cant put it in my car here is the link if you want to know what i am talking about

posted by  bigman101

More ignorant Ricer bullshit.

Its funny since imports get dominated in a straight line, yall have to default to 2 things.

-Imports always Perform better in Twisties
-"Anyone can go fast in a straight line"

Yah Drag Racing is easy when youve only got 150hp. Try it in a decent car, thats got some power.

You dont think people with F-bodies and mustangs set their cars up for autoX and road course racing.
I can think of a certain F-body that has less in his car (including car and suspension setup) probably than your Si. And trust me he will DESTROY you around ANY track. Its easy when you've got a good suspension setup, and over 12" of slick at each corner.
Grow up.

posted by  Enthusiast

Yah if you spend all the money to get an NSX. You get an expensive ass car, that their is next to no aftermarket for, comapered to the likes of the vette and viper, is slow as balls, has a measly 260 hp (AHAHHAHAHA), and you really cant do much to them N/A, so your stuck with a HUGE bill for forced induction or your stuck with 260hp.

NSXs are decent cars if left bone stock, and would probably be fun to drive everyday, and I do think the the early NA-1s (with the pop up headlights) are nice looking, but Id take a vette over them just cause of the HUGE aftermarket support, and the ease and cost of maintenance.

posted by  Enthusiast

Wasn't the NSX cut from production because it was not selling very well? This might sound ignorant, and right me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what made it so exclusive?

posted by  chris_knows

It wasnt selling well because not a whole lot of people were willing to shell out 70+k for a Honda, no matter who helped design it. Enthusiast I get where you are coming from, but its just a matter of preference, thats why there are so many different cars out there on the roads, because not everyone has the same opinion. You are right about the NSX being expensive to mod, and the vette being more powerful, but no matter the facts, I can still disagree with you all day because I would take an NSX over a c5 any day (unless its a Z06 then I would have to think). Yea I was wrong about domestics on some accounts, I will admit that, and god only knows how much fun I had driving our 6-speed jeep liberty around for work, much more than my civic even though it feels like its driving on stilts compared to my car, but some things I still stick to. For the most part I think domestics dont have the style and sophistication of imports, but then again with the new Saturn Aura being simply gorgeous, as well as the new Astra, and Chevy's flex-fuel technology, I could be very wrong very soon..

posted by  newyorker

but you admit that the Mustang's superior performance changed your mind anout not buying and import?

posted by  windsonian

It's funny how you domestic supremacists always default to 2 things.

-domestics always perform better in a straight line, therefore they're better cars
-anyone who thinks otherwise is a ricer and should be burned at the stake

He also has a pos F-body.

And why on earth are you calling me a ricer? When have I ever done or said anything that even remotely resembles the ricer attitude? Show me, I challenge you. My fixed comment was more of a joke than anything, a little extreme to balance out your extreme comment. By the way, I never even came close to implying that going in a straight line is easy and corners are you're essentially arguing with nobody. Just so you know :wink2:

Anyway, let's talk about the whole ignorant ricer thing. Here comes my ignorance spewing from the innermost parts of my tiny ricer brain...

Generally, performance cars made by American companies will go faster in a straight line than car made by companies from other countries, while cars made by companies from other countries will go faster than cars made by American companies "in the twisties". There are plenty of exceptions of course, but many, if not most, cars will follow that rule whether they've been modified or not.

Ok, now let's talk about this Civic vs. F-body thing, and see which car would be the best choice for me.

I am an 18 year old college student with fairly little knowledge in the way of auto mechanics who needs a car that won't break down and wants a car that would be fun to drive around on a daily basis. Modding is out of the question, since my parents own the car and won't allow it. I will also have to pay for part of the insurance. Also, mom says it must be safe.

Ok, now that we know a little bit about me, let's do a little breakdown of each car's pros and cons.

Reliability-the car just has to be. If it breaks down, I'm just out of luck until it gets fixed, cause I probably can't do it myself.

2005 Civic Si > F-body, no question there, no need to explain.

Fun/performance-not a requirement, but would be nice to have.

2005 Civic Si > F-body, and I will explain this one.

The Civic is a 2800lb, FWD hatchback. The F-body is a ~3100lb or more RWD coupe. Well, the F-body certainly has more power...but honestly going in a straight line is a bit of a bore, especially on the street. Since I will not excessively speed for risk of getting a ticket, I would run out of fun very fast just going in a straight line. Now is there really any question about which one of these is more fun going around a turn? I assume they both have relatively high front weight ratios, but I can't find any exact figures. But the Civic is at least 300-400lbs lighter. I'm told that Mustangs and Camaros and the like are total pigs in the turns, and I at least know that my Civic is better than that.

Also, just one sit in a late nineties Firebird, and I hated the thing. I felt like I was lying down, and the shifter was way stiffer than any ever should be. Speaking of shifters, the EP3 has it in an unusual, but perfect location, thus helping the fun factor quite a bit.

In short, I think my Civic is a blast, and I seriously doubt that ANY stock Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, or other muscle car would be more fun for me.

Then there's safety.

2005 Civic Si > F-body

Well, probably anyway. I'm not looking up ratings for every F-body, but the random ones I did look up were all worse than the Civic.


2005 Civic Si < F-body

Not much there, insurance on the Civic is about 3 times more

And a couple of other things...

gas mileage

2005 Civic Si > F-body


2005 Civic Si > F-body

Anything important I'm missing?

So, you tell me, in my case, how on earth is an F-body better than a Civic Si? It's not.

Lastly, my parents bought the car so it was more up to them than me anyway. I have to take what I can get, and they were going to get something nice...nicer than most any f-body.

In summary:

I'm not a ricer, and there's no way you can legitimately say that I am.
Imports typically are faster than domestics in the twisties.
Domestics are typically faster than imports in a straight line.
A Civic Si is much better choice of car for me than an F-body, and I'm quite happy with it.

posted by  jedimario

Well noone said that it changed my mind, it was simply an very generous option that was in front of me at the time, so of course I gave it some though, and by the time that I made my decision (not to do the trade for practicality, insurance, gas, etc.) the car was already gone to another buyer.

Yes the mustang v8 has superior performance, but no I dont think its as refined as even my civic..the interior looks like crap to be honest, but those are things that I could live with given it's performance.

I still have lots of time to decide on my next car (and I have more options than before because with my new job I can get my car at wholesale price, which is considerably more friendly on the wallet), and I work with people who have been buying and selling and owning cars for longer than I have been around, so if all else fails, I'm sure I can get some feedback from them, suggestions as well, on what to get, and of course the "dealer advantage" when it comes to paying for it.

At the moment, I dont have any specific car that my mind is set on, but I want it to be better than what I have now of course. Something more powerful, more fun, etc. but I dont want it to be a hassle owning it. Ive got some time to work and make some money, I'm not in a big rush to get a different car anytime soon, because its more of a want than a need, so I am open to realistic suggestions as well, although they wont be acted on for quite some time.

I fell in love with the Mini Cooper S after driving 2 of them (05 supercharged 6MT, 07 Turbocharged 6AT), its just a hoot to drive, yet it still gets great MPG, looks great, and is very roomy inside, but small outside (great for parking and such), the only thing turning me off about it is that being made by BMW (one of the more reliable euro car brands, not that its saying much), I dont know how prone it is to taking shits when it comes to reliability.

Ive got lots of time to make money, make a decision, and along the way I am sure I will get to drive lots of cool shit that will be considerable for my next purchase, along with some cars that I love that I'm sure wont be what I expect them to be.

Time will tell.

posted by  newyorker

I did.
You went from saying you had NO plans to buy a domestic, to considering trading your car for one.... you changed your mind.

posted by  windsonian

Yes but I didnt say that I changed my mind about not buying an import..I still would buy an import

posted by  newyorker

huh? but you wouldn't not buy a domestic.

posted by  windsonian

I would, but I would be a bit more picky about it than an import. I would check the engine 5 times over and then have a mechanic look it over, I would spend about 2 weeks, reading reviews and doing research, etc. When I got my civic I just found it and bought it, and it has served me well, with only wear and tear (except for input shaft bearing..stupid 1st gear downshifts).

I gota say I really liked that 6-speed liberty we had though it was a blast..shifter is hard as hell to work with cause its not very precise or smooth but still a great time. I got pix of it I will upload as soon as my camera gets boss decided to unplug it and the card is corrupted but the pix are OK I gota extract them

With my mindset about domestics now, something really nice would have to slap me in the face really hard to get my attention, that or a really really really good deal that if I'm not happy with I can make money on a few months down the road.

posted by  newyorker

I called you a ricer, cause you defaulted to the american cars dont handle well. What basis does this statement have?
Your friends told you f-bpdys are pigs in the corner!

There are plenty of capable handling domestics and their are plenty of pigs made in japan.

Here are some stats on the F-bodys.

The 02 WS6 (according to MT)
.84 Gs
64.6 mph slalom

I really dont think thats bad at all considering the e36 did it in 63.6 mph according to MT

the 99 Firehawk (also according to MT)
66mph slalom

even better.

All the F-bodys that me and my firends have, have been more than reliable.
Mine at 107K miles.
Only broken tranny caused by me
and A tore up motor due to a faulty cam dowel pin (not a GM an aftertmarket thing)
If I didnt mod it It wouldnt have broken

Buddies TA at 164K miles.
Still hold great oil pressure and the only thing hes had to fix in the last ~50K miles was 2 02 sensors.

Another Friends 02 Z28
Has had to do NOTHING to it outside of a clutch at 121K miles (the original lasted that long).

Ill give you the safety thing as Im to lazy to look them up, and I could care less about practicality in a discusion about perfromance cars but gas mileage in an F-body isnt bad at all.

I get 28mpg from a 3.73 geared (stock are 3:42) LT1 M6 Z28.
LS1s get better mileage and a stock geared car will help to.
Ive seen over 30mpg from a few f-bodys, but my best is 28.
Which isnt bad at all as far as im concerned when I have a 5.7L V8.

posted by  Enthusiast

Sure its the better choice for you, but if I had 9 kids a minivan would be the bets decision for me. That doesnt hold any merit in a perfromance discussion or a perfromance per dollar discusion though.

Your import, domestic generalizations have no backing. Thats why I call you a ricer. You cannot judge a complete set of cars on just the places they wer built. You have to judge and compare them on a smaller level.

To make generalizations like that is just retarded.

Thatd be like me saying imports do X bad. I cant cause there are always exceptions. And dont get me wrong, I like all cars for certain things (including imports).

posted by  Enthusiast

I really just want to say neither do yours, but I'll hold back...

Because they do have backing.

Look, this wasn't supposed to be an argument about performance cars. You made a bs statement, I called you on it. Ever heard the saying "actors use lies to tell the truth"? Same concept. Next time, realize that instead of shooting off and making bogus accusations about someone you don't even know.

posted by  jedimario

If It was a BS statement then disprove it.

First off domestic performance cars usually come with big simple motors which are usually easy to make power with. Seriously right now the SBC (Gen I-IV) is hard to beat in a perfromance per dollar comaprison.

Second we have the home field advantage. Im sure its cheaper to make a japanese car faster in japan.

posted by  Enthusiast

An Enzo Ferrari will go faster in a straight line than your Camaro.

posted by  jedimario

whatever.... you've still changed your mind then.

posted by  windsonian

Yes but I could go faster than an enzo for the price of one.

posted by  Enthusiast

No...I would still rather have an Import, but there are certain vehicles that I think the Colonies make better trucks and SUVs, but for a car, I would rather stick to the japanese. get one if it is new or still under warranty

posted by  newyorker

But an Enzo is a F-body isnt, and your F-body would never handle like an Enzo, nor would it have the same value..

posted by  newyorker

"Rather have one" and "will not buy one" are 2 very different things. Just admit you changed your mind, even if you won't say what changed it.

posted by  windsonian

So could I...stay on topic or shut up.

posted by  jedimario


Your retarded. Ive seen skidpad numbers from modified F-bodys over 1Gs.
And I have also seen better slalom numbers than your almighty enzo.

Quit being a nut swinger and look shit up.

Im dont have the money to buy an enzo so its kinda a plus that an f-body wouldnt have the same value as an enzo.

Yah I no its a Ferrari. Id take the Chevy, cause I break parts and I enjoy being able to pay to have the car fixed, and not feel bad when I abuse the hell out of the car.

posted by  Enthusiast

Shit even a boxster BONE STOCK can go through the slalom faster than the enzo.

posted by  Enthusiast

Screw the Enzo, I'd rather have a Civic.

posted by  fudge

Screw the Enzo.....I'd rather have the money. Invest it properly and you could have lots of high-end vehicles. :smoke:

Speaking of which, anyone got a few million dollars they want to permanently loan me? hehehe

posted by  dodgerforlife

Hey now!

Some of us live on mountains in New England. If I drove my Camaro in the winter I'd have to buy 4 wheels and new tires (I dunno the width of my tires, but as you said, fat is bad). Then I'd have to pay more insurance (compared to my Oldsmobile), and more for gas. And what for? So I could rack up miles on my nice car when I can't REALLY drive it most of the time? Then you add in the rust factor.

So let's recap:
The Olds is easier to drive in the winter
Over the years I'll at least break even financially
The Camaro will last twice as long and look better doing it
Every spring it's like I bought a brand new car (exciting)

posted by  giant016

The 3 bolded I couldnt agree more. Thats the reason Im picking up a DD, and so I can finally have time to have the maro down and redo it.

The other one is also true, its EASIER to drive in winter. BUT I was simply trying to say that RWD is fine to drive in bad weather if you dont act retarded, although maybe in a harsh way, haha.

posted by  Enthusiast

For most people, yes I'll agree that RWD is doable. However, even if I wanted to I couldn't drive the Camaro in the winter unless I wnated to park it at the bottom of the Mt. and walk up whenever there is a storm. Not going to happen.

posted by  giant016

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