always love this subject, and i wanna know what people think. gimme a good reason to go either way.
dodge viper vs. ferrari 575M
pontiac trans am vs. BMW M3
The Euro's are always much more refined than the american rides, yet cost sometimes significantly more. American cars seem to offer just as much performance for less money, yet don't have the luxury and cushyness that the euro's have. American cars can go faster (sometimes) in a straight line, yet the euro's can almost always carve the twisties.I could go either way.
American / Australian cars normally have question marks over build quality.
They have a habit of developing rattles and other minor faults.
But you get what you pay for
Besides, support our economy!
European cars are by far better. Its unreal for an individual to buy a Chevy Corvette over a Ferrari 360 Spider. Its the stupidest thing one can do. Europeans offer more technology, luxury, prestige and most of all fun to drive.
I think that you get more bang for the buck with domestic cars. Reliability goes either way. I've had european cars that were real lemons and on top of that, they were expensive to fix. On the other hand, I've had American cars that were flawless. It also depends on what you are looking for. If you want a muscle car, then go American. If you want presteige, then go Euro. If you want dependability, then go Asian. All I know is that I have tons of fun with my American muscle and constantly put Euro cars twice the price of my car to shame in a straight line AND in the twisties. In an ideal world, I'd have my 03 Cobra in one garage and an M5 in the other. It's not and I dont have the $$ to do it so I opted for the most bang for the buck.
i could go either way.
If i could get a viper or a ferreri for free i would get the ferreri but if i had to pay i would get the viper.
but ive i could get a focus or a golf i would probly get the golf.
So it depends what you are looking for and how much money you have so once again ill say it...
i can go either way..
i just dont think that comparing a ferrari to a dodge is realistic. anyways, if you're willing to pay 60-70K for a Viper, might as well get like a Porsche Boxter S or like BMW M5.
Boxter and M5 are both very nice cars but there's something about feeling like king of the road in a viper. A boxter or M5 are slow by comparison. Practicality is another issue in which case, the M5 reins supreme.
Yes, imports have enough sound proofing to not be able to hear the rattles
I would rather have the domestic first, then eat my candy later if I can :D
I like working on cars that I can work on, and not have to take a specialized college course just to change the spark plugs lol. Besides, as far as tinkering with vehicles there is so much more oppurtunity with domestic, yes there is quite a bit for import but not as much as domestic. You never see blowers or chargers on rice burners(except for that nissan truck), I like the looks of muscle cars when I think about racing or doing quarter miles, when I think of a good ride and luxury I think of lincolns and caddies, my 79 lincoln rides like a dream, and looks fuckin pimp.
Besides, unless youve got the money to spend it sucks to have to pay 500 dollars for an oxygen sensor or something on your beemer, too expensive for a poor white kid lol.
I also like the thought of supporting my economy, I think its sad that a foreign car can be the best selling ANYTHING in this country. Especially the way the economy is going, its a shame. but one thing is true, fucking prices of cars these day are pathetic, you shouldnt have to take out a loan to buy a vehicle, but it happens because companies want to make billions instead of millions.
In my opinion the European cars are better than the Americans in all
the categories, except for one or two exceptions. In addition the
European cars contribute technology, engine types, power and less consumption, but mainly style and more beautiful lines, and in the highest scales they are authentic wonders of art. It is another style more refined that the americans or asiatics. Lexus is even an imitation of Mercedes and other European cars but mainly destined by Toyota for the American market. In Europe Lexus it has very little market.
And another additional advantage is the incredible variety and amount
of manufacturers, marks and beautiful styles that include all the
sectors of the market and the pocket. One of the lasts wonders: Bugatti Veyron. Style, design and power.
Sorry, my english is very bad. :? :rolleyes:
It depends on how much you are willing to spend. A Corvette Z06 will beat a Boxster S or even a couple year old Porsche 911 Turbo on a road coarse, but the Lambo's and Ferrari's will beat the 'vette hands down. The Viper is a nice car, but for the $100,000 area, go for the Ford GT. If you're willing to spend $200,000+ go with the Saleen S7 or the Mosler MT900S.
Poeople put superchargers on alot of imports, hell look at the first gen mr2 an option was the mr2 with the 4agze ? supercharged engine........ if i wanted i could go buy a vortech supercharger or a jacksons supercharger and put it on my car...... its a 91 civic dx....
I would never choose a European or American car based on reputation of
quality or reliability. For the most part, both continents are the same, I
would even tip the reliability favor toward the Americas.
The difference in build quality, lies in the fact that if you pay $120,000 for a Mercedes, you EXPECT it to have more technology, more refinement, better anemities. You get what you pay for.. period. For the most part that's true, however, it's not always the case. In the 70's-80's, Mercedes and many other European manufacturers just simply couldn't effeciently manage their production operations (i.e. Jaguar), so to make up for the waste cost incurred in production (and their HUGE labor costs), they set a high price tag. In the 90's that changed, and we began seeing affordable BMW's and Mercedes, that weren't grossly inferior to their more expensive brotheren.
I certainly would NOT look at a camaro that performs just as well as a beamer for 1/4 the price as being a worthless car. It takes feats of engineering and production management to design and continuously manufacture a car with that much performance and only ask what I would consider pennies in return.
Bottom line is, inflation doesn't account for the high car prices we have seen these recent 5 years.. Toyota builds quality using quality materials, and YOU PAY FOR IT... something the American manufacturers realized parts of the American public were willing to throw down another $5000 for..
BMW M3 BY FAR!!! they are good, reliable and FUN :D
i know i havent drove 1 or been in 1, but where i work theres loads!!
and 1 has triptronic, traction control and more and hes done 0-60 in 4.6
ok Saleen S7 vs. Mclarren F1
For pure performance, McLaren F1 of coarse. It's too bad that they don't
make them anymore, and add the fact that you'll have to pay well over one
million dollars to get one and the S7 looks more attainable.
*And now for something completely different.*
How about we compare cars in the same price range (gasp!).
I think that whoever wrote this is wrong.(in my opinion)
I think so because cars should be compared by their reliability!i've had a ton of European cars in my life and a few American cars when i had problems with money.The European cars that i had were mostly Volkswagens and Audi's.My 1985 vw golf did 360 000 km and not a rattle came out of it!I only had to change the muffler once since it started to rust up too much.(but that's very minor)After the golf i bought a 2003 Chrysler neon.I did 32 000km with this car and got rid of it!
It was a total automotive disaster!!After 32 000 km the dashboard was rattling like hack and the manual transmission had to get replaced. Also oil was leaking really badly from it.In my garage there was always a huge puddle of oil under it! Now c'mon this is a half-year car that has only 32 000km driven on it and a lot more things happened to it than my 1985 vw golf that had 360 000km!!
Also whoever wrote this said that you can't really compare European cars with American because they are the same!
They are totally different!
Beutiful sound,looks and marvelous quality and reliability!
Somebody who had the same problem like me please reply to this
vwmaniac dude theres ur prob dont buy a s**ty dodge get a gm vehicle and
youll never be sorry ive got a 1972 chevy pick up that my grandpa bought
the only thing weve ever done to it was basic maintenice oil change new
tires new fluids ect. my great uncle bought at the same time like within a
week or so an audi and u know what weve replaced on that? new heads, new
mufflers, new hood, new side panels, new dash board, and it still breaks
down all the time. o yea the chevy of mine(my grandpa gave it to me) yea
the body on that is in better shape than the audi.
pm me and ill send u a pick of the chevy.
I encourage you to buy American and support our economy...because this guy
is not WASTING his hard earned money on a plastic filled, top of the line,
American cars. I've seen too many American cars not hardly 3 years
old...and the paint is peeling down to the metal...You spend your money on
"American Quality"...I wont.
You all support America...I'm not going to support it in the car market!!
I totaly agree!!
I will spend my money on plastic (see fiberglass) filled, top of the line, American cars, if you continue to waste your money on overpriced, ugly, and slow German cars. (See Porsche...overpriced) I've been around too many American cars with an excess of 200,000 miles to spend $50,000 on 3 letters. (See BMW.) (By the way, if your wondering why I said slow, I'm basing that on a performance per dollar analysis. The 2002 Corvette Z06 is faster and handles better than a 2002 911 Turbo, yet costs 1/3 the price. You do the math.)
You'll also die instantly in an accident while if you are in a BMW or
another well made German vehicle, your chances of survival are quite high.
And the part about plastic was not about the body...it was the interior
parts and trimmings!! Bozo!
BTW...I have a 1988 528e that has well over 200k miles who's engine hasn't even been broken into. It still can do well over 135mph.
If you get in a crash doing 135mph, you're going to die just as easily in a German car as in an American car. (Also, where exactly do you get your car up to this speed?)
on the highway, on back roads, on a race track. to tell you the truth unless one is on the Autobahn or the Western US roads, 135 on public roads is retarded.
Not to mention criminal...
Uh...210 Freeway...2am...Sunday mornings...not a car in sight...Actually I've pegged the speedo at 140mph and was still accelerating a bit.
bavarian? do u realize that if you hit a bump or just jerk the wheel a little bit at that speed you could easily lose control? i've had my car at 130 on the freeway too, so i'm not gonna say that it's a mortal sin or anything :D (even if it is a stupid thing to do) but i find it very hard to stay in a straight line at anything over about 100-110.
You're not driving a BMW...for sure!! The few times I've been over the
century mark in my 1988 528e, it's been quite comfortable and sure
footed...even rounding freeway turns (wide). The difference is that BMW
(and others) are designed to drive fast on the German autobahns. They are
designed for speed. I admit my car could use a bit more stabilization, but
that would only be really necessary at sustained high speeds above the
130mph mark. I will be adding a stock tail wing like the one below (of
which my car is exactly the same other than the color) that came stock on
the faster 535's and M5's of the same year.
You really need to get yourself a car designed for what you want to do. If it is speed your looking for...German is the way to go. If it is off the line raw power...go with the American muscle...but don't expect the stability when you get up to speed. And BTW...A good Bimmer would still give an American muscle car a nice challenge off the line!!! (not necessarily mine)
Edit Addition: Rest assured. I'm not out driving those speeds in traffic. The few times it has been the wee hours of the morning (still dark) and no one one the road that I can see. And once or twice racing another car...again in the wee hours of the morning.
i agree with u for the most part, an '85 bimmer is definetely designed for handling WAY better than a '79 datsun 280ZX.
I was driving a Toyota Corolla rental car around Darwin. We took it out on
one of the highways (open speed limit). Couldn't go any faster then 190kph
(110mph) and it was very unstable. Lost a hub cap too :D
I was watching a GTP car race here in Brisbane, The 911 turbo finished 11 seconds faster 02 Z06. During the same race, a Diablo blew its motor :D
Just another example of German automotive superiority over those "good for quarter mile" American cars.
i don't like sayin this bcuz i love america and i have to say that german cars are way more reliable than U.S. i haven't wanted to admit it for a long time but it's true. u get what you pay for i guess... :(
I love America too...but am not going to throw my hard-earned money away on
vehicles of lesser quality just to keep some mid-west farm boy working on
the auto plant assembly line.
He can afford a can of chew by working at, the ever popular to hicks, Dairy Queen in every city east of anywhere! (There's a Dairy Queen about 15mins from my house...WAY TOO CLOSE!!)
No, now you're using a fallacy of logic known as "post hoc." Do you know everything about this race? Were both cars stock? We're the drivers of the exact same skill level? You really can't defer a conclusion based on such limited information. Please, try harder.
Simpleton say what?
Ah yes, another person who thinks that calling names will cover for their
lack of rational thinking. I am no lover of American cars but to make the
blanket statement that cars from one country are superior to cars from
another is ludicrous.
And don't forget much of the "superior German engineering" comes from the US and is refined in Europe and at this point in time most car companies are global not only in sales but also in research and developement anyway.
So impress me. Why does an Accord or Camry built in the USA outlast and have better reliability than a BMW built in Germany? And please save the crap, my towing service makes big bucks hauling almost new BMW's to the dealer regularly but almost never tow's a Honda or Toyota, new or old.
Hey, hobo we're talking about american cars.(chevy.ford.chrysler etc.)Not
Japanese cars that are produced in America.And what the hell???!!!!!
German's don't get their engineering from the Americans!!!The American's always copy evrybody and make a crappy job out of it.If German cars use American engineering then how come they don't have such crazy gas usage??????How come German diesels are so quite and have great performances?As for American diesels, they are slow and sound like crap.Also the German diesels have small engines not 3.3l engines!
Read my previous post again and pay special attention to all the words including but not limited to "much" and "global".
Don't know...maybe people in the mid-west (guessing by "redneck hell")
aren't interested in a nicely maintained vehicle. Show me your paper work
for making big dollars towing BMW's and I'll show you lazy car owners.
You know better than the rest of us here that German cars of yesterday were quite good, but that they need the care of an enthusiast (or lover of the car) to bring out the qualities therein. An ACV is an excellent car (I have a '73 VW Bus) and quite reliable, but put someone that just drives and doesn't pay attention to its needs and it can become a headache quite fast. Proper maintenance on any car would yield great returns. So a Chevy or Ford could be a good car mechanically, but you still have to live with all the cheap plastic they pour into the styling...
Well let's see. You're way off on the midwest thing but that's immaterial.
And I certainly agree that German cars both new and old are generally well
built, long lasting, technologically advanced machines. I have PLENTY of
money invested in my German toys and have no desire to own a Ford or Chevy.
My towing service, in addition to towing for my shops and doing police calls, is sub-contracted with three nationwide services who are sub-contracted by extended warranty companies and car manufacturer warranty services. I am not speaking about older, abused cars. What I'm talking about are current year models with VERY few miles on them, meaning under 10k. The only cars that we tow to a dealer for warranty repair more often than a BMW is a Kia, and we do tows for all the dealers in a 50 mile radius.
So... I'm glad that you're happy with your Bimmer and that you get good service from it. You also appear to be an owner that is concerned with the well being of his car, and that is my favorite type of customer, usually smarter and easier to get along with. My point is that you can't use broad statements like German (or American, Japanese, British, etc) cars are better than any other (pick your country of origin) car. It just doesn't work if you want to be taken seriously.
Well then...maybe you live in the one "redneck hell" that everyone buys BMW's and KIA's. ;)
I find it odd, but not unexpected, that after I typed three paragraphs that's all you can come up with. I'm not even sure if that's supposed to be a smart or smart ass reply as it fails on both counts. :rolleyes:
Neither...just trying to reconcile my own beliefs in my own mind.
I just stumbled accross this while surfing around. It's not meant to be an
"I told ya so" to anybody. As a matter of fact I'm surpised by some of the
results myself. Just thought this might be interesting to look at while
persuing our dialog.
As they say in the computer ghetto lingo, "Ain't that a 3i7c4!"
Got it now?
Yo, SJ. I think it's a stab at me. :rolleyes:
I didn't have you in mind at all, vwhobo...don't know to what you would be referring to.
I'm sure you don't. It's amazing how you found a partial paragraph in the entire article. Keep in mind I don't agree with everything on the list either.
<---still lost... ::gives up, hands in air:: :)
I commented as I own a 7 series...maybe that'll clear it up? :D
Hey, I didn't write the article and I honestly didn't even read the entire thing before posting it. It's only supposed to be food for discussion not arguement.
There was no argument from me...
Okay, just so there's no confusion how about if you explain what you meant by "As they say in the computer ghetto lingo, "Ain't that a 3i7c4!"
Okay...one more time...
I was commenting that BMW did better save for the 7 series and the X5 were worse than average.
Now...a few posts back I posted that I own a 7 series...hence the "Aint that a Bitch" comment...Or, what am I about to encounter that the article alludes to. I have not had any problems with our 1997 740i "Flagship"...thus far.
And I would say that has to do with what we discussed before. I get the
impression you take extremely good care of your cars, and if there is a
minor problem you take care of it before it becomes major. If more owners
were like you there would be alot less people pissed off about their
What really amazes me is that there are no Kia's on the list. Maybe if you buy a Kia you're not smart enough to bitch when it breaks.
I wouldn't say "extremely" good care, but I do have their regular maintenance done and oil changes every 3k-4k miles...the dealer makes sure to remind me...otherwise I'd forget like the rest of normal America. ;)
yeah. i was kinda thinking it was this way, cuz i was thinking
3 = E
i = i
7 = t
c = c
4 = A
now see why i said huh.
Yup...I got em twisted 'round...sry.
Shoulda put |3i7c|-|
ok that is even more confusing. you probably should have just flat out said "bitch" to save us the trouble of deciphering it.
totally off topic.. but neons suck!!! lol
totally off topic but Preludes blow ass! hehe
what about the eral american muscle? Muscal Cars there better then hondas and all that
i would get an american muscle car..............dodge viper gts hmmmmmmmm :wink2:
if you want to drive eurotrash, then pack your crap and move to europe, as
far as i'm concerned, it's American anything all the way.
"I'd rather have sister in a -------------- than a brother that drives imports" :cussing: :fu: :screwy: :evil:
You're pretty new and you already are starting up with this when we all
know that American Car companies are garbage.
BTW...exactly where is your sister located...and what would she say about your thinking? If she agrees...then you must be a redneck and visiting her at the whorehouse.
I now understand what you just wrote in the R&M section lol :laughing:
Yeah and exactly where does the fastest car on the plannet come from ummmm let me think!
Given the right circumstances a soap box racer could attain those
yeah , true a black hole would do the trick
woah, I now understand about the R&M too. sry bav. I'm too lazy to change the post again though. sry.
This whole thread is so funny to read from start to finnish,try it
No thanx, I prefer to read posts as they appear....Not wait for five pages and then read it all :laughing: :ohcrap: :banghead:
5 pages? how do you even know its finished yet :laughing: that guy must have something wrong with him :laughing: :clown:
Very well said. *high five*
I agree with Voda - well spoken tbax. :thumbs: i especially like this
its daimler btw
Ya his quote about the car blasting was very enjoyable
looks like you didn't do well in grammar either...its basic as four wheels with a gear stick and a steering wheel :laughing: :laughing:
I have no problems with people geting every day words wrong just car ones, cuz i cant spell for toffe either.
lol i got the same thing too
the car words have to be spelt right! the most famous car word spelt wrong of all i think...porshe :laughing:
i used to spell it like that too when i were little :oops: :laughing:
I seem to recall you spelling 'Peugeot' as Pergeot, or something like that earlier on lol :thumbs:
probibly, u know my spellings shocking
stop picking on the kid Cliffy, please! :laughing:
LOL...C'mon, I cant help it, anyways, you all know I'm only jokin'....This place is good like that :ticking: :wink2:
yeah! sure is....just don't pick on me will ya :wink2: :thumbs:
I aint even started with you yet mate :ticking: :laughing: ..just kiddin' :clap:
okie dokes, no problemos lol
just don't in future too lol
i would bash cliffy but, hes only a rent boy, i mean cop :p
i respect cops......not cops on the net though :laughing: virtuall cops
any of you read the newspapers lately? that article on net bobbies on the beat :laughing: whats all that about
Yes, coppers on internet chat rooms to prevent groming of children, quite a good idea I think :thumbs:
sure is! help ward off people like......'no names' lol
like my new sig?
European Cars... I mean come on... the RS6... M5... M3... S4... and tons of
mods... European Cars in my opinion. :2cents:
Edited for WeaponR.
:confused: your point is......
what are you referring to any way?
I was saying that in my opinion Euro cars are better than American Muscle.
Isnt that what this thread was about? To say which one we liked better. Right?
from what the title reads, yeh
but if you take a look at the last couple of posts, i think no one would be able to make out what your saying cos normally you will reply to the last couple of posts!
should have made it more obvious! and sayin' euros aint a good way either. euro (p.l) euros, is a currency now and could confuse any body. maybe if you had put some thing like european cars or included the manufactures, i would have understood. im sure many would agree
well we all know what bobbys are beating on the net!
not very nice is it? yeah, i think i do know lol
was that aimed at cliffy by any chance?
Lest we forget I dont live in Europe... thus I completely forgot about the Euro. Sorry m8!
There ya go WeaponR! I edited my post just for u!
its ok just don't forget next time will ya :thumbs:
Look at this::www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?pg=abductlinks
10 marks that man
hmmm very interesting
don't put that link there, it might give some one ideas :wink2:
cliffy you got that? im sure you did :laughing:
If I have to... :thumbs:
btw, nice subaru you got there, like the colour scheme on it. its fab! :thumbs:
um yeah, european cars are nice and all, but theres no comparison, american muscle cars new and old will blow the doors off any import, and you can go on ferrari this and porsche that, yes, there nice, yes there expensive, but no, they will never, ever, be able to compete with american muscle cars. but yeah, all i got to say is 2005 dodge hennessy viper....uhhh ferrari what?
1995 Koenig Ferrari F50
um yeah i just looked that thing up and it gets a 10.8 in a quarter mile, my ****in car gets that, and its a chevy small block, the hennessy viper will ****ing tear that thing apart buddy, go do your homework.
01 vette tigershark...
As nice and luxury as european cars are you just can't beat the sheer style and class of an american muscle car. Just think which mercedes benz E-300 or a dodge viper? The competition is futile for the mercedes.
And on top of that the noise a muscle car makes is a must.
imho theres no better bang for the buck out there then *when* you could get
a brand new camaro/trans am
theres no car that does anywhere near a low 13 second 1/4 mile, has that handling thats not an all engine car
theres nothing easier to get a few seconds faster either...
when youre getting into 7-9 second cars theres probably ones a lot easier to get up there for cheaper without a new engine...
and about handling im sure id take an enzo or any ferrari or for that matter over a corvette, but if price is anywhere involved in this id love to have a vette or viper, but i dont know, i imagine i could make a vette comparable if i spent $560 000 on modding the vette instead of buying an enzo
i love GM cars...wait till 2007, the new corvette z-06 replacement, the c6-z will have a new redesigned 427cu (7.0L) big block from the 60's
they have been designing the engine and already have well over 500 bhp from it
and it will be less then 5k more then a regular c6 vette, it will destroy the viper in everything possible to do with a car
and i cant wait for the new 07 camaro with the 400hp ls2 engine
for luxury (which im not interested in at all) ive always been a fan of mercedes, id take a 600 series car for that
CHOOSE WAT U LIKE :thumbs:
EVERYBODY go watch battle of the supercar ZR1 vs Audi R8 ....I think both american and euro are unique in there own way but when it comes down to Euros or any domestic car for that matter they overall dominate the american compotition..dont get me wrong some american V8's sound good but when you here the euro V8 theres a big difference in raw power and torque WITHOUT superchargers and turbos...SOME have them but most don't ...i want yall to look at this to Lamborghini, Ferrari and alot of the other euro exotics put a big gap between launching cars vs me buying a Vette one year and its old the next year but thats one of the reasons we pay so much for euro cars because there exclusive..from the factory they may make about a few hundred of them and thats it so look at it like this when you purchase a euro car you wont expect to see your neighbor driving the same thing...(just some food for thought)