oil

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everyone should check this out. i am in no way affiliated with any organization. im just a regular shmuck that actually gives a crap. we are on the verge of a major crisis. within the next fifteen years the vehicles we so dearly love will no longer be affordable/available/viable. it should be obvious just with the recent rise in fuel prices alone. political association aside (which i have none) check these out. www.copvcia.com , www.solari.com , www.truthstream.org i urge you to check this out and really find out whats going on in this great country of the usa. thanks for your time. bill fuss. p.s. vwhobo you have not offended me personally, and i know you have far more knowledge than i ever will about motor vehicles, but you are a dickhead :)

posted by  soundguy

Last thing first. I am not a dickhead, I am an anal orifice. You are a dickhead. More importantly you are a dickhead attempting to spread fear by spamming out extreme left liberal web sites. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dickhead.

posted by  vwhobo

i never said i wasn't a dickhead. i don't really consider that spamming, more like information sharing. people can beleive what they want. but it always helps to make informed decisions based on more than one viewpoint, aka commercial media. i dont necessarily beleive all the views contained in those websites. but surely enough it will make you think a little bit more about the big picture. more than nbc, cbs, abc will tell you anyways. im sure most people will disregard this and go on wearing their #3 hats, drinking their budweiser, talkin on the cell phone, while driving their suv's. and thats fine. but there is a problem even if the public remains ignorant for whatever reason. as far as spreading fear. i dont understand, unless information equals fear. like i said, i have no politcal sides, bush or kerry wouldnt have made a difference, it's all supply and demand. im just a carpenter in ohio that actually gives a crap about how our country is changing. im not about to get into a political brawl with anyone, and i won't no matter what the reply is to this. the whole point of this is give people (even if only one) a broader platform to take their respective veiws from. thanks, bill fuss p.s. hobo, i do enjoy your posts that have a technical standpoint, other than the ones that involve, beastiality, incest, belittling others, or iq scores.

posted by  soundguy

Information doesn't equal fear, misinformation does. You are guilty of spreading it.

posted by  vwhobo

i disagree. how have i misinformed anyone?

posted by  soundguy

You can't figure that out on your own? Someone really does have the wool pulled over your eyes. One of them is simply a far left "news" organization. One of them is a for profit advertisement which tells you what they want you to think. The other is an ultra left web site that streams conspirasy theories right to your computer.

If you want to be taken seriously try sharing some serious news, not spamming bullshit.

posted by  vwhobo

i appreciate your interaction. but i intended this topic to be for everyone, not just your view versus my view. i still stand by the point of everyone knowing as much as they can. i know this is a very touchy subject. i did make a personal reference in my first post, which maybe i shouldnt have, or maybe i should have. after all everyone on theses forums wants to hear what vw hobo says. spam= processed meat product bullshit= poop
i voiced no political view one way or another. i just want people to think. i provided web links to various sites containing different information on different topics. maybe i should have posted this site instead and everyone would be happy. http://www.realitytvmagazine.com/ thanks, bill fuss

posted by  soundguy

But... This thread has been here for the better part of 48 hours and I'm the only one to even notice it. What does that tell you?

posted by  vwhobo

oh, i noticed it, but i didn't think it was worth responding to .... although i do appreciate that you've takent the effort to point out a few things to our learned colleague.

posted by  windsonian

i'm sure you're not the only one to notice it. you responded because i put your name in the thread. i would be inclined to say most people just don't care. especially considering the majority of posters here are fairly young, but i'm sure there a lot of lurkers in here as well. i realize this is just a car forum and this one thread is not going to change the world. but im just trying to let people know there are more avenues for information (or misinformation as you call it) than the idiot box. thanks, bill fuss

posted by  soundguy

If by your own admission you "would be inclined to say most people just don't care", why did you post it to begin with? You confuse me (us all) with the things you say. Maybe that's why you got no responses.

posted by  vwhobo

Oil is the one commodity that hasn't been allowed to be tied to inflation. The prices have been kept artificially low, and even now the price is less with respect to inflation than it was in the '60s. Much of the recent rise is due to increasing demand, but not in the US... And even then, in the US prices are still considerably lower than elswhere in the world.

Even so, less than half our petroleum use is in the transportation sector, which included private cars, public transportation, and all forms of shipping (planes, trains, trucks, and ships). The majority of petroleum use is in the plastics and rubber industries, as well as home heating.

the US produces a third of teh oil we uses, and even exports oil. A third or so is from shirt range suppliers, like Canada and Mexico. Or quite a while we got a rather large percentage from Venuzuela, before the oil workers there went on strike (which caused a price spike a couple years ago). The people most dependant on Middle East oil are Europeans.

Consumption? Remember, it's not just personal cars that are teh consumers. YOu could remove every SUV from the roads and only drop transportation sector use by 5-10%. 90-95% of the transportation sector use would stil be there (and remember, that sector amounts to less than half the total petroleum use). Not saying that we shouldn't conserve or use less, just reminding people that scare tactics that are being used are missing the point and the correct target by a wide margin.

OTOH, I don't like cars because they burn gasoline, so I have no problem with electric, hydrogen, or whatever keeping vehicles viable. We could run diesels on veggie oil. I could convert my Fiat to electric power. I'd have no problem driving a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, or a hydrogen ICE car. But it's still going to be a long time before gasoline vehicles aren't viable.

And seriously, even an SUV or muscle car is more affordable to run on a monthly basis than smoking is...

posted by  ChrisV

sorry ive been busy with shows, so i havent replied.
i was not really expecting any responses. but i am happy to see another thread was started about it. http://www.car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?t=11398 which means people are being informed, maybe even misinformed, but never the less at least it is a concern. maybe they can do their own resarch now and decide for themselves.

yes this is true. that is where conservation comes in. i think a very good example is garbage bags. you buy a product whose sole intention is to be thrown away. which usually include all the plastics from food and goods packaging and supermarket bags and what not.

i disagree with that. which is neither here nor there. but i bet if you add it up especially with the inefficient gas sucking vehicles they make these days. its probably cheaper. untill they tax the smokers again to pay for more shortcomings. dont forget the insurance and interest on the minimum monthly payment plan.

posted by  soundguy

Dude, don't argue with experience. And modern vehicles suck much less gas that the older ones. ive' had both.

My 10mpg older caddy cost me $50 a month to commute in. my ex-roomate spent more than that a month on smokes. my '72 Suburban used more fuel than a new one does, and the new one pollutes vastly less.

And if you want to include insurance for the car, then you have to include health insurance on the smoker.. ;) But I was talking cost to operate not to own, which is different.

posted by  ChrisV

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