For ya'll in the Alabama and New Orleans and the other states that will get slammed with this 5, ya'll will be in my prayers and hope you will have a home to stay :ohcrap:
Fortunately we are somewhat to the east of the predicted path, but still expected to get heavy wind and rain. Thanks.
Good luck! :thumbs:
My thoughts and prayers are with a CF member from N'Ahleens....and another
friend, also from NO - Cera and Francesca. Hope they and everyone makes it
through this latest hurricane okay.
<< is lucky to not have to worry about almost any natural disaster...
I sure hope New Orleans doesnt turn into one big lake.... :ohcrap:
Well...its going to suck. :oops:
Shit, doesnt Cera live in New Orleans?! :ohcrap:
Double post :wink2:
Accident. Look at it again, I changed it :laughing:
yeah, already mentioned that Cera lives there..
Francesca told me last night that the river was expected to flood during this hurricane...which would essentially put New Orleans under a hefty amount of water.
yeah same here, especially Cera. She must not be too close to NO though b/c they've got all the horses, just hope it's west of there...
essentially a 'burb of New Orleans....still too close for comfort :ohcrap:
Good Luck to anyone here who's affected by this, I'll be thinkin' of ya :thumbs: :ohcrap:
My prayers go out with them as well.
Well it looks like the Burban(idk about the spelling) street area didn't get hit too bad from watching Shepard Smith, but I saw the rest of the AL MI New Orleans costal area got hit pretty hard.... :ohcrap:
We're already getting some heavy rain bands and tornado warnings here.
:ohcrap: It's going to be a long night.
EDIT: I have to laugh at this, but they are pretty much telling us on the news if we hear the siren (tornado siren) it's probably already there and to take cover ASAP. :doh: Come to think of it, I don't think we even have sirens here.
Log on to IM chica, donka shane :laughing:
ok i too hope for the best.... but really, it's kinda like rock climbing and falling to your death... or skydiving and the parachute not opening or me living in the mountains and a giant rockslide taking out my home and town...thats the way it was meant to be right? im not a jerk for thinking this am i? cuz if so please feel free to tell me.
well, it does come with the region they live in....like saskatchewan has
blizzards...but it still sucks!
New Orleans escaped the brunt of the storm - it was downgraded to a 3 and curved eastward towards Biloxi, MS - New Orleans may only get 6-8 feet of water now...
has any other country offered to help us out.....?
No, but that's a whole 'nother thread.... :banghead:
help out with what?????? you guys have billions of dollars for disaster fund what would you need help with, maybe the looting punks can drop the tv's and crap they are stealing and maybe put some sand bags out,
the point is we help everyone else, but do they help us? NO Do they hate us? YES
whoa whoa whoa - we got our own to worry about buddy. I know it really
blows a goat that all these people are now homeless, jobless, and have no
possessions, but we still have to look out for ourselves. I'm sure the
Canadian Forces that are training in the US(yes, there IS cross-training
going on), will be on hand if called.
If the US wants to pay my bills and fly me down towards there I'll help, but I got to take care of myself...
And did the Americans help Canada when Quebec had that nasty ice-storm a few years back that left people powerless for over a month in the dead of winter?.....no
It's not that we hate Americans, it's just that you've spent the last 5 years flexing military muscle across the ocean, and the rest of the world figures you can handle something like this on your own.
I think that's well out of order....I have one thing to say to you here without going Off Topic...9/11 :thumbs: .....Us Brits done nothing but help you guys out...as a Nation, not just NY :banghead:
yah englands good guys, the only thing canada has done for us that i can and always will remember is let us land our planes there during 9/11
We may have money, but we could still (have?) used other countries' help
because of the QUICK mobilization needed. Also, with the devastation and
the loss of one of our oil locations, we're kind of on our knees as it is
and cannot help ourselves at full capacity.
I cannot help but wonder if this is just the kick in the ass some other country was hoping we'd get, so they'd step in and be the world's super-power. There's so much to worry about, whether it is somebody's next meal or if they'll even be alive in the next minute, or the future of America at large.
9/11 was awful, but DAMMIT it didn't bury a whole city!!! :banghead:
This is just so awful on so many levels. I heard Category 5 and couldn't believe that many people didn't have the means to leave the city. I couldn't help but wonder if the shelters would even hold up. Some others may not have taken it too seriously, I've heard of college students trapped in their dorms trying to send text messages so they can be rescued. This is one hell of a reality check and a very costly one at that :(
This isn't going to kill America. Sure it is one heck of a blow but we
will get over it and continue with our lives. However, I'm sure some
people are happy we got nailed and are saying we deserved it.
We all live in areas with risks and benefits. Up here it was the 28 tornados that went through the state destroying numerous towns last week. These are acts of nature, god, budda, whatever and we have to deal with them and we know the risks we face when we live in a certain area. When these things happen we will pull together and help out where it's needed.
My condolences and best wishes go out to the areas affected by Katrina.
I'm going to cry - this is IE window two open, because I have a huge repsonse in the other one that froze on me....I'll have to rewrite it after work....
I wish I could believe you, theman, but in this case it's not about one
town suffering. I didn't even hear of WI's troubles!!
The offshore oil locations that crashed produce 25% of the US's oil. We are already having issues with importing oil (after all, isn't that what many believe the war is about?) and now a quarter of EVERYONE's (not just one state's) livelihood is gone. This isn't just any other disaster that we hope one state will recover from, it's the whole country!!
At the same time, NYSE's crash had a ripple effect, but we're still here, right? I don't know what to believe right now, this time is just crucial as hell, IMO.
Even if you don't believe me you have to believe in yourself and the American way, ingenuity, perserverence, dedication, and drive. It beats you when you let it beat you and now you need to look toward getting yourself back up and running like you were before this happened. No road worth taking is easy but you will be rewarded for it in the end. Hang in there Janei, it will get better.
I was gonna say, the repercussions of Katrina have been felt here in NY -
not weatherwise, but with gas. i went to the local Cumberland Farms and the
gas prices were outrageous - i think the 87 was shot up to $3.23, and the
premium was at $3.63. :banghead:
but then i saw the local Mobil stattion and the regular was $2.98 and the premium was $3.11. so i'll take that. but the whole thing is pretty outrageous...I remember back in the day, when my dad paid $.99 a gallon in Jersey. :cussing:
I think we still pay more if not close to the same if you add it up (about
$1.00 a L).
I feel for you all and everyone else that are/were directly and indirectly affected by this, hopefully it wont take too long to get back to 'normal' (i know it wont be the same).
oh yeah, i'm sure you guys pay more than we do. but its still annoying to
see these prices, and to think, why? why are these prices so damn high,
when you're getting the same sh*t as you did before, yet paid much less for
it. its kinda like college tuition, i've been finding lately. i visited
Lehigh University yesterday, and you pay about $40,000 a year for it.
Syracuse University (my #1 choice school) costs about $35,000 a year. These
tuition costs are outrageous - and are we getting anything extra out of it,
when a SUNY school costs about $13,000 a year (well, for NY residents. but
it applies to any state school, in any state.)? no. yeah, campuses are
undergoing multimillion-dollar construction projects, but those are funded
by rich folks who want their name on a building in a university/college (or
to buy a child into said university/college). The whole thing just
irritates me... :banghead:
and who do we blame? we could blame Bush, but even as a Liberal, I can see why he's not necessarily at fault. we could blame the oil companies, but here we have Katrina destroying the places that produce 25% of our oil. its just frustrating, what we have become.
I dont know about the tuition fees, not there yet (thank god) but i can believe it. Everything is getting rediculous in price, as my dad puts it "A litre of Gas is still cheaper then a litre of Water, so its not that bad". I'm sure gas prices will drop alittle bit after this weekend (since its a long weekend, they tend to raise prices anyways) but by how much, who knows.
*breathes deep* okay lets try this again.
Firstly - Why the hell do people want to help people who won't help themselves? The Chinook helicopters that are lifting people out are getting shot at - by New Orleans residents! Next to that, people are looting stores for electronics and diamonds. Maybe these people should put that shit down and lend a hand in helping to get the water out of the city. When the citizens smarten up, I'm sure more people will be willing to help out.
Secondly - this won't kill the States - in the end it may end up helping. In the short term, like right now, losing one of your oil locations is a blow, but the government has already talked about "strategic oil reserves". And I am sure that Canadian companies will have no problem in trucking oil down to the states. In the near future to a year, the economy will boom - theres billions of dollars worth of construction that will have to be done, and contracting companies will not be able to do it without hiring more people. LOTS more people.
Thirdly - A lot of the people who stayed behind did have the means to get out, but they ignored the governors BEGGING to get out. Somehow I just can't pity them. The people who had no means to leave the city and got stuck behind, yeah, I pity them.
Fourthly - I applaud theman's opinion in this matter. All these people knew that they lived in a hurricane-prone area, and that the city was built UNDER sea level. This type of thing happens with the geographic area. Go to Cali and you're getting earthquakes. Go to Hawaii and you're getting Volcanos. Go to the northern states and you're getting blizzards. Go to tornado alley, and you're getting tornados.
Fifthly - As for other aid, I'm sure the Canadian Army Reserves, the Canadian Red Cross, and the Canadian forces would lend a hand. But considering your own government doesn't know what is needed, how can you expect us to help right now? As for monetary aid, I'm sure there will be some form of a fundraiser, and we will do our part to help out.
To Stem - That was NOT the only thing we did for 9/11 - we also housed the 33,000 people that were on those planes - something your president personally came to Canada for and thanked us for.
And Canada has also been giving some form of aid to the states for years - whether it's the power that your eastern seaboard runs on, the lumber your houses are built with, the jet fuel that your army uses, the uranium that your nuclear reactors use, or the fresh water that is dranken.
I've discussed this situation with many customers who live across the US, and the general opinion is the same - "yeah, it's unfortunate, but I can't feel sorry for the people that ignored the begging of the governer, or the fact that people are stealing everything they can, or shooting at rescuers"
I've also talked to several people displaced by this event, and most of them are already actively seeking work in other states to get back on with life. I've also told them that Cingular Wireless will assist them in any way possible(in regards to bills). Cingular has already stepped up to the plate to restore communication in the affected areas so that people can get in touch with loved ones, and have also provided cell phones for Officals to use.
So try to tell me that there ISN'T any aid coming.
Well put :thumbs:
And they're right, we CAN handle this on our own. But common courtesy
would be to offer assistance back to the person (country) who helped you
out in the past.
What do you think would happen to the world if America stopped providing aid to all the countries it does? We would have a heck of a lot more money and supplies to help out our own. But no, we feel we should be a responsible global partner and help out those less fortunate.
oh man, you just wait - by the time you go to college tuition will be in the $50K range. :doh:
We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Many people see the US as an adversary interest and bitch accordingly. When we tell them what we want and show leadership commensurate with our place in the world, we are bullies, bumpkins and cowboys, uninterested in "dialogue" and ignorant of some vast untapped wisdom only available overseas. When we let them do as they please, we are are abandoning our international obligations, turning inward, becoming isolationalist and nationalistic, and failing to recognise that we are a part of the world.
When we decide our own course and retain sovereignty in the context of Kyoto and the ICC, we are a "rogue" nation. When we participate in international accords, we are an imperial power.
Tsunami victims need help? We were there with our military and our money and we 'still didn't give enough'. Get rid of a tyrannical dictator and we're imperialists.
Yes, we are damned if we do and if we don't, but only by those intent on damning us.
I think people don't understand that though
OK, at first I should have said most, not everyone, sorry guys. And I heard on the news yesterday that some other countries are offering help so I guess I'm wrong. :banghead: :banghead:
Get rid of George Bush and less people will damm the US. :2cents:
Yeah so we can appease everybody instead doing something about a problem that's just great :2cents:
im watching tv and i dont see why everybody keeps blaming the government for this? im definately no bush supporter, but come on. how prepared can ya be for this kind of devastation. they act like there should be tons of food and water waiting on the people as soon as the storm ended. i dont think anyone even dreamed of it being this bad. hell, when i heard there was a hurricane on the way, i just figured it was just another hurricane and didnt pay much attention to it just like most peple probably did. we just have to learn from our mistakes, and try to form a way to be more productive and responsive.
AND....... before ya start crying about us not helping you....read a little before you point fingers, Canada's DART team is suited up and ready to go, canadian redcross is already on the ground and we have hundreds if not thousands of volunteers who have been in contact with the u.s relief departments and aid departments but have not yet heard back..... i personally know people who are itching to help but how, when and where your government needs to talk to our government more so we can get our guys in there, read your facts before you spewing verbal crap it really wastes internet space. and who the hell wants to help out when there is shooting at medivac choppers, whoever is shooting at rescuers deserves the worst death possible, and no thats not a blanket statement some people truly do need the help, mainly the young, sick and elderly but when i watch the news and see 99% of the able bodies sitting around crying whoa is me....cmon get a grip get off your lazy fat ass and start doing something, we can't help those who don't want to help themselves
I need to clarify a few things in this thread....
Gas prices are up because of a few reasons:
1) Higher demand- Want to bitch about something? Yell at that moron who just bought that gas guzzling Hummer or Escalade.
2) Gas prices went up again because the coast REFINES the oil that is sent to the U.S.. In fact they refine around 40% of our demand. The government can release the oil reserves, but what good is it going to do to release unrefined oil? The refineries are ok, they just cannot run without power. They can't get power into there until they get all the lines fixed and the water out. It's expected to have power back in about a 1- 1 1/2 months.
3) The mouth of the Mississippi river is where the majority of our imports and exports pass through. Right now, it's gone. Until that port opens up expect to pay higher prices due to shipping.
1) MANY countries are offering us aid. There are atleast 2 dozen (that's 24 for you math geeks) countries so far who are collecting aid. :wink2:
2) Not that I condone the conduct of those who looted for things other than necessities (i.e. food or water), but NONE of us have any idea what is going through their heads. Until I am in a similar situation, I won't pass judgement. The media tends to focus on the negative, you should all know that by now. The majority of the people there are just trying to survive. Every city has it's bad apples and it's inevitable when given a situation like they were, the 3% or so of criminals took advantage. Not to mention, it's possible most of those were the 10,000 prisoners from the local jail who they (DUH) put into the superdome. Well needless to say they can't remember who the convicts were. :doh:
3) Remember as well, Gulfport, MS took the eye of the hurricane. There's also Waveland, Slidell, Long Beach, and not to mention the now non-existant lower delta of Louisiana (not New Orleans...I'm speaking of south of that which now is gone) which are all almost 100% demolished.
Woah son. Remember these people are trapped. Surrounded by water on all sides. Would you risk wading through waist deep water filled with sewage, dead bodies, gasoline, oil, animals from the zoo including sharks, alligators, snakes. Have you ever tried to go 4 days without water or food? These people not only lost everything but they have been starving and dehydrating in 108 degree weather. What do you want them to do???
whoa son, maybe it's just the way i am but i would be fighting in every way possible to not die or get sick..... really would you just be sitting there waiting for someone to help?
i dont think you can really say what you would be doing unless you are in their situation.
no.... no one can but have you been trapped in a -45 snow blizzard with 100km/h winds and can't see you hand in front of your face, what would you do sit there and wait to die or be saved **** THAT, looks like you wont live long now does it?this is called survival, and if you guys rely on other people for it well im sorry for that,
ok there rambo, everybody isnt you. i know myself personally, i would be looking for food and water, actually im sure everyone would want to do their best to survive. but, have you seen some of those people on tv? they cant even fend for themselves. they depend on someone to help them. alot of them have hope of getting out of their and going to houston to stay, so thats why they are sitting there.
i know how you feel banff!
Yeah well, that's the price of fame. At least you are acknowledging the
general feeling abroad, I'm sure many of your compatriots are blissfully
unaware. The Brits had the same problem when they ruled half the world, but
they left a legacy of the rule of law and parliamentary governance.
I think the US had it's finest hour when Margaret Thatcher and Nancy Regan were joint Presidents of the US. Tony Blair and John Howard aren't quite as good in getting their US constituency behind them, but at least they have the army doing something. :wink2:
Some more fodder for the "Blame Bush" folks to put the responses in
Whitehouse Press Release
August 27, 2005
The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.
8/28/2005, 10:48 a.m. CT
The Associated Press
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.
The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.
So Bush Declared A State Of Emergency On Friday - While The Louisiana Governor And New Orleans Mayor Did... WHAT for two days???
THEN Bush Had To Personally Call The New Orleans Mayor To Appeal For Him To Evacuate The City...
And Yet BUSH Is Now Getting All The Blame For His "Incompetent" and "Unacceptable" Efforts (Jesse Jackson's Words)
I believe that a major point of contention here is the vocal criticism of Bush as though he is solely responsible (though not completely in this thread). One could reasonably assume that many shouting this oversimplified mantra do so mostly out of desire to "blame Bush".
To point out that the state dropped more balls than an entire cub scout troop reaching puberty simultaneously is very relevant. To point out that those people now blaming the federal government for the whole mess screwed the pooch is not simple deflection, it is fact. When requests to federalize the evacuation are denied, it is highly disingenuous to then blame the fed for the failure of said effort.
While they could have been doing something, the gov and mayor were too busy pointing fingers like Rosie O'Donnell at a Duncan Donuts; and now it's not unfair to point out that they failed miserably on their own.
Can we get an AMEN?
Thanks for the great post Chris. :thumbs:
Yeah no shit :doh:
Then we get to listen to the great Al Sharpton talk about if they were white people would have gotten help faster :roll:
No kidding. Except for the fact that even if you assume EVERY person that
stayed behind was black (and according to the pictures on the news, that's
simply not true) then over 200,000 black residents were successfully
evacuated BEFORE the hurricane hit, simply by listening to Bush's call to
The basic major media premise all week has been that the 20% who were left behind were all black and poor, and the rich got out of town. This is simply put, nonsense – and racist. New Orleans is a poor city (more than twice the national poverty rate). Most of those who got out of town were not rich, and were not driving SUVs, as Tim Russert sneered on the air Sunday (in a disgracefully-conducted interview with Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff).
A little elementary math will address this. According to the 2000 census, New Orleans' population of 484,000 included approximately 136,000 whites, and 326,000 blacks. The white figure includes 7,000 Hispanics who classify themselves as white on the census forms. If 80% of New Orleans residents got out early – and this is the Mayor's number – then only about 97,000 residents remained. Assume all of them were black, (which of course they were not). That would mean that 229,000 blacks got out early, and 136,000 whites along with them. In other words, the successful mass evacuation substantially benefited black residents of the city.
At least 70% of black residents of New Orleans got out of the city before the storm (assuming 100% of those left behind were black), and undoubtedly more than that (since all those left behind were not black). It is almost certainly the case that the great majority of those who were left behind were black. There are obvious reasons for this, including the fact that New Orleans is overwhelmingly a black city to begin with.
Another factor is that 35% of black residents of New Orleans do not own automobiles, while 15% of white residents do not. So to the extent that getting oneself to the highway was the best method to get out of out of town, blacks were disadvantaged. That is where local officials failed. With many hundreds of school buses available, the city chose to provide safe shelter for those who did not or could not leave town in the Super Dome. Close to 30,000 people moved there.
These people would have been much safer, and had a much better week, had they been bused out of town. But for this one, you can't blame FEMA, or Homeland Security or George Bush.
As of today, almost 300,000 people are now in shelters in Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Tennessee, just to name five states. Many of these people drove out, not knowing what would await them where they went. So the insecurity about what comes next was still there for many of those who left by car. As to the charge that Bush and his administration did not do enough because they do not care about blacks, as charged by an angry, and obtuse rapper Kanye West on an NBC benefit show, one should not have to dignify the charge with a response.
The reality is the destruction from the storm affected far more whites than blacks. This is the ultimate answer to the racism charge that Bush did not do enough because the victims were black. If more whites than blacks were storm and flood victims, and the federal response was slow, than I guess by this logic, the response was insufficient because Bush is a racist towards whites. As James Taranto pointed out Friday, in his opinionjournal.com column, the three Mississippi counties that were hardest hit - Hancock (home to Pass Christian), Harrison (home to Biloxi and Gulfport), and Jackson (home to Pascagoula and Ocean Springs) are among the whitest counties in Mississippi, the state with the highest African American percentage of the population in the country (36.3% in 2003). But in these three counties, the white population in 2003 was estimated at 280,311, and the black population was 71,070, a white to black ratio of 4 to 1, much higher than the overall ratio in the state of about 5 to 3.
Similarly, Senator Mary Landrieu of Louisiana acknowledged, as did Congressman William Jefferson, who represents much of New Orleans, that the storm, and the flooding did not choose victims by race. Four of the five parishes worst hit in the New Orleans area flooding, Jefferson, Plaquemines, St. Bernard and St. Tammany, are majority white (ranging from 67% to 88%). Only Orleans Parish (New Orleans) is majority black (67%).
You're right, but the problem is that ignorant peoples minds are to closed to actually consider the fact that Bush wasn't the main man in charge, it was mostly the mayors decision, and if you watched the news, I counted 30 to 40 ****in school bus that were just sitting there
To be fair, a lot of buses were flooded.
True but the majority were on high ground
Well, you gotta think most of the people that didn't leave did so because
they simply had no where to go and no money to stay somewhere else. Most
of the people that were there were living below the poverty line.
And not to go all "black caucaus" on everyone, but most of the people that were living under the poverty line in N.O. were black.
Since almost 70% of the total population was black, it's no surprise that most of the people living below the poverty level were black. But, as was shown, over 70% of the black population got out. As I said before: The basic major media premise all week has been that the 20% who were left behind were all black and poor, and the rich got out of town. This is simply put, nonsense – and racist. New Orleans is a poor city (more than twice the national poverty rate). Most of those who got out of town were not rich. And most who got out of town were black.
I saw a clip of some cops looting. Yet people are getting shot at for
doing the same thing.
Any why did the national guard setup a checkpoint to stop people from leaving the city?? I just don't get what they are trying to achieve by doing this.
The looters were not cops, they were security guards. The local cops are so torn up about what they were being asked to do. Two commited suicide so far. I don't think anyone can answer the other question. The only thing I can think of is they were trying to get help to people as quickly as possible and if people started wandering around and away, they would be harder to find and help. Even now you see families that are still looking for loved ones. I think the city just did not have an adequate evacuation and relief plan in place. Thus, mass chaos, destruction and death. It's a sad lesson for us all.
Actually, it seemed to have a relatively good evac plan in place. According
to pre-disaster estimates, it was figured at least 100-200 thousand,
(1/4-1/3 the population) would get stranded, but only about 10% got
stranded. As the TV images showed the couple days before Katrina hit, there
was a huge exodus of traffic out of the city.
Now, as for relief, I gotta agree. Why stuff 10,000 people in the SuperDome without any sort of water or food delivered? and why wait until Tuesday to sign the paperwork allowing for Federal aid?
Of course, relief efforts were hampered by the relief helecopters being shot at, and the muggings and rapes, which are not a normal part of post-hurricane or post-natural disaster planning.
Agreed...I heard this morning Bush and congress were launching an investigation into why it took Fema's chief so long to get food, etc. down there. I remember seeing pictures of I-10 days before it hit. Astounding. So do you think they will be allowed to rebuild?
I was really surprised to hear that they are going to totally have to
rebuild the Superdome.
If you have sen any pictures, you probably know why.
Where'd ya hear that?!
It doesn't sound promising.
I heard on the radio that the owner of the Superdome says talk about totally rebuilding it are premature, and that it'd be 100 million to reapair the 500 million dollar building...
Good to know the billions of dollars in Aid will be going to good use. :laughing:
alright i also heard today that it would cost 600 million for a new stadium, so it looks like it's getting repaired. And it wouldn't be donated money, or shouldn't be at least, but the money this guy's company has or insurance...
Thanks for the update...
That studium is going to be a vital part of renewing that city - it brings in a ton of revenue from football, college and pro.
I hope they get the Superbowl after the city has resurrected itself. That would be awesome.
True, but I think they line up the Super Bowl locations at least 3 years in advance...
That's exactly why I couldn't leave. No where to take my horses.