drive agressive or follow rules of the road?

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I love driving agressive, but theres a time and place for everything. Most of my friends drive like maniacs, its unfortunate that they fail to realize that its never cool to put people's lives in danger nevertheless you own. Is going 120mph worth your life?!?! I really have no room to talk because I dont follow the rules of the road half of the time but i've never hurt anyone and i've never been in an accident, so I must be doing something right. :driving:. And for all of you people who rev at stop lights, may I ask why you do that. There is no point, you're not looking cool, you're wasting gas. Your not worthy to race me so do yourself a favor and save your self the time and gas money. I mean you gotta rev your car once in a while but come on, I dont think anyone gives a shit how loud your car is, if anything its annoying. But thats just my :2cents: dont give me shit please. :thumbs:

posted by  jzxTT

I like to drive agresively but, as you said jzx, there's a time and a place for everything so I only drive like that on open stretches of road and I dont take the piss, the way I look at it is that every other car is a possible unmarked Police car (within reason off course!)

posted by  Cliffy

erm...what about an intermediate choice?

posted by  SuperJew

Yes, the poll needs more than these two choices. Nothing in life is balck and white.


Two points, like 'em or don't, I couldn't give a rat's ass.

1. Anyone who put's in their post something like "dont give me shit" knows going in that either their viewpoint is not very well thought out or they're looking for a fight.

2. I agree with MOST of your thoughts, but... You stated "I dont follow the rules of the road half of the time but i've never hurt anyone and i've never been in an accident, so I must be doing something right". You're how old? Oh yeah, sixteen. So you have how many years experience driving on public roads? Thay's what I thought. Did it ever occur to you that it's beginners luck? Some people say God looks out for dumb animals and children, which are basically the same anyway. Get a grip.

posted by  vwhobo

i drive pretty darn safe now, after i got my first ticket ($177 for doing 33 in a 20, schoolzone, cop got me before i actually got in the school zone, so im taking it to court) but im not looking for another, so i figure im gunna be a little bit more carefull, plus i never know when or where there is a cop

posted by  mazda6man

I drive inbetween aggressive and safe when I'm with my sister but I HAVE to drive safe when I'm with my parents. Only having my temps and all...

posted by  Satty101

you're right, I've only been driving for a year now. Just say you choose choice 3 if you're in the middle of the two, when i know I can get away with driving like a maniac I do but usually during the day I play it safe. I know your thinking "well if thats his choice then why not put that in the poll?" I should have. my bad :doh:.

Off Topic: I take it you dont have any. What exactly does flat fours mean?? How much HP does your bug have? looks fast..

posted by  jzxTT

1. Two boys, three dogs, two cats, two horses and a partridge in a pear tree. The number of boys is static, the number of animals vary from time to time. I know exactly of what I speak.
2. Horizontally opposed four cylinder engine.
3. That car isn't mine (see some other thread from today for explanation). But my daily driver Bug puts out about 225ish RWHP, haven't had it across a dyno, takes all the fun out of dialing it in. That number is motor, more with spray.

posted by  vwhobo

:GETTIN REALY OFF TOPIC
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :laughing:

Not bad at all! more than the average civic :laughing: (laughing at civics)

posted by  jzxTT

And just think, it weighs less than 1900 pounds, with me in it.

posted by  vwhobo

Well my whole arguement hinged around the fact that it is hillarious to me how people create just two choices, as indicated initially in the poll above. I was trying to start this NICE debate till I got flamed and reacted. Driving aggressivly does not = 120mph in 35 zones......putting people's lives in danger...etc. That IS dangerous. Therefore, to state that one drives aggressivly, oh HOW HORRIBLE, it a BUNCH OF BUNK! :banghead: I never said I did any of that mentioned above....but I am such a HORRRRIBLE driver. Instead it was assumed. We all know what assumptions are and do, I will not recant it. :screwy: I am glad to see that this whole arguement sparked a FANTASTIC debate. :laughing:

posted by  cmeseadoin

i drive aggressivly while following the rules of the road.

posted by  Arthur

You try to hard to be like other people *sneez*vwhobo*sneez*... stop. About your whole post, technically you're correct and technically you're not. If driving 120mhp in a 30mph zone and putting peoples lives in danger isnt partly driving agressive then what is?? Yes it is dangerous but also agressive (in a way)...(speeding, taking corners fast, not using your blinker while speeding, ect.) For every action there is a reaction, driving agressive COULD lead to running someone over. Right? I never said that people who drive agressive are unsafe, I simply said you CAN put other peoples lives in danger WHILE driving agressively. Now you obviously have a different defenition for driving agressively so why dont you tell everyone :thumbs:
mine.. speeding, taking corners fast, not using your blinker while speeding, ect.
and a simple resolution to you problem about the poll.. click on the link that says "post reply" and you might say something like "I drive save while driving agressive".. now thats good thinking arthur :clap: .. Its really unfortunate that other people cant think to do that :doh:

posted by  jzxTT

LMAO--I hope that when you said 'more than the avg civic' you were being highly sarcastic. Otherwise you are one of those people who have a 97 civic dx with a cold air intake, stupid taillights, and a cheesy muffler, and you go around telling people that your civic has 200 to the wheels. I hate people who just blurt out HP numbers and don't know what a dyno is. My DX had 105(?) hp stock, CAI added 35, and my RACING muffler added 75. so that means I have 215 HP TO THE WHEELS!!!

The fact that VW's bug puts out over 225 and olny weighs 1900 lbs is amazing!! I don't like bugs, but that would rock! I drove my buddies STi that has about 260 to the wheels (i think)and weighs over 3000 (i think) and it HAULED ASS. Civics are slow POS's that are only fast once you drop enough money into them to buy a slick used M3...

I guess I am way off topic from the OP, but I am starting to HATE :evil: all the dressed up civics out there. Sorry if this is misplaced anger.

*takes a deep breath...*

posted by  jmyers0341

Actually I have a 400rwhp (to the wheels) Twin turbo 300zx that would eat you friends sti...
But im with you, I hate civics to.. chances are I could smoke every civic in california. :laughing:.
Bugs Rule.. If you've ever drivin an older bug stick you would know. If you took the time to read the thread you'd know that I was not playing when I said His Bug is better than the average modded civic. Why would you hope I was being sarcastic like you were trying to back up civics if you're going to "diss" the civic. Then you say you had a DX? Is it me or is this guy confusing :screwy: . Either you're saying vwhobos a liar who needs to learn what a dyno is or you're saying..... oops I forgot your whole point of posting that, can you please enlighten me?
b.t.w. Is there anyway to edit the poll?
LMAO.. and By the way buddy.. a whole new exhaust system couldne add 75 horse power.. more like 10-15.

posted by  jzxTT

Sign me up for one of those "75hp" mufflers!! :screwy:

In fact, I've heard that those stickers are worth a cool 50hp or so...gimme a few of those... :banghead:
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posted by  BavarianWheels

Or that 3000GT with 3000 Horse Power .:orglaugh:

posted by  jzxTT

Why are you laughing at that? I did that once......ON MY GRAN TURIZMO 3 GAME!!! :orglaugh:

posted by  Satty101

:orglaugh:

posted by  jzxTT

Aggressive driving is for morons. There is no reason for anyone to be driving aggressive on a public street, or on any backroads for that matter.

Earlier, someone had mentioned that when they drive aggressive, they are safe about it? How can you do both? Driving safe would mean following the laws of the road. Honestly, who cares if you think you have experience enough to drive like that? Sometimes accidents happen and they aren't your fault, yet someone you know, in your passenger seat could be dead because you were driving aggressively and fast and someone pulled out infront of you because they didn't see you.

Aggressive driving isn't all about how YOU drive, it also has alot to do with other drivers on the road. Not to mention, how hard would it be for you to be driving fast and aggressive on a backroad and someone walks out in the street? I can guarantee 9 out of 10 times you will get charged with manslaughter.

Basically, some of you need to have respect for the other drivers, take your aggressive driving to the track, where you can kill just yourself if you wreck. :banghead:

posted by  Vassar

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Using "aggressive driving" has wrong conotations to it. It is perceived as driving wreckless. In my definition, I drive aggressive...which means I don't have time to lolli-gag behind some idiot out for a Sunday drive at 7am in the morning on a weekday while I'm trying to get to work. Or any time for that matter. I'm doing my best to get around those idiots and that makes me aggressive. I don't drive wreckless (that's not to say I've never driven wreckless) but my style is aggressive compared to the average person that can't care two hoots for the person behind them that for what ever reason, wants to go faster and get "there" sooner.

Is that so difficult to understand?
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posted by  BavarianWheels

There is nothing wrong with speeding up to pass someone on a broken line or a two lane one way, but if you are breaking the speed limit to do so, there is no need. Most people, when they say aggressive, they actually mean "wreckless" or "fast". That is not to say what you mean, but I'm trying to clear that up.

The people that really piss me off are the people that pull up on my bumper and take off around my car or swirve in and out of traffic, while I'm going on or slightly above the speed limit, as if they were on a NASCAR track. Those types of people are the people that I consider "aggressive" or "wreckless". Those are the types of people that make me want to go be a Police officer somewhere.

There are just no excuses for that kind of driving, other than "I'm an idiot that needs to go back to driving school!"

posted by  Vassar

If you see them pulling up on your bumper...put your right turn signal on and make a lane change and let the person in a hurry by. It seems to me that by you insisting on staying in that lane and that you have every right to stay there and impede traffic (which you do if you're doing the speed limit) you are the cause of the anger that results in accidents. It is your hard-headedness that pissed off the driver behind you.

If you don't like accidents, don't put yourself in a situation that can potentially cause one...be it your fault or not.

COMMON SENSE!
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posted by  BavarianWheels

Seriously, have you ever seen the way some people drive in Atlanta or Orlando? They don't pull up on your bumper to push you along, they get on your bumper and take off just because they think they are in some kind of race. You can't say the reason you drive aggressive is because of other drivers, that is just lame. "I drive wreckless because of the guy going the speed limit infront of me!" That is absurd!

I have every right to stay in whatever lane I please as long as the speed limit is being done. There are plenty of other lanes that you can make your way to.

It's not my fault that people have a temper and get pissed because I am going the speed limit. "Well, I got in a wreck because I was upset that he was going the speed limit infront of me!" Please...

posted by  Vassar

Firstly, show me where I said I drive wreckless because someone is going the speed limit. I didn't say it. You apparently can't read clearly.

Second, If you don't see reason to move over, don't get upset when they pass...and cut you off...say to yourself, "Hey...I didn't move to let them by...such is life."

No it's not your fault people get pissed. But when an accident does happen and you or someone in your family get hurt, I'll bet you'll think...why didn't I just move...among the other thoughts I know you'd have.
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posted by  BavarianWheels

So, it's my fault because I don't have futuristic instincts to be able to tell where the crazy lunatic in the car behind me is going? Comeon...

posted by  Vassar

Your bottom line is "Im not breaking the law, matter of fact im not doing anything wrong, so **** you", you are correct, If every driver was like you and obeyed the road rules there wouldnt be any accidents. I can see your point. take a look at my sig. I didnt put 12k into my car to go the speed limit, of course I'm gonna speed... and I dont want to go to L.A. to drive on a track.. You can avoid big problems by doing small things like letting people pass by you, If they wanna break the law let'um. You still have your life. But if you're gonna be hard headed (which you very much are), there's a thing called road rage, people get pissed off at slow drivers, ( I know I do, I think Bav could agree with me).
Maybe its a rainy day and your going the speed limit 45mph, and some guy in a mustang cobra is riding your ass, and your hardheaded ass stay's in your lane (which you have every right to do) he decide's to cut in front of you and looses controll, which means the death of your car, and the death of you, which could have been easily avoided if you would have just put you blinker on and switched lanes... not that hard...
we're not talking legal so dont bring that up. :thumbs:

posted by  jzxTT

Chances are...if he's behind you...he wants to go by.

Common sense...apparently you don't have any. :banghead:
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posted by  BavarianWheels

Common sense, you have never been in a big city, so have no idea what I'm actually talking about. I have no problem with someone wanting to get by, but I do have a problem with someone driving like a racecar driver, showing off for his girlfriend, to get by.

posted by  Vassar

And what "big" city do you hail from?
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posted by  BavarianWheels

All this talk on the same points that I was making in my posting the other day and you're seemingly barking up a dead tree with some people. :banghead: I agree TEN fold with you Bav, and so do most others in this chat room. It's people attitudes such as Vassar's where he'll sit in that left lane and hold a line of traffic up a mile long IN THE LEFT lane because why???? HE'S DOING THE SPPED LIMIT so therefore, has no further obligation than the LAAAAAAW to get OUT of the way. Well yes Vassar, it IS people like you with your attitude that CAUSE me and MANY others to get pissed of because a simple coutesy would be for you to graciously say to yourself, "Gee, I think I should move over and let that guy get going because he's obviously in a hurry...more so than me, to get somewhere...regardless that I AM doing the speed limits." :thumbs:

They used to teach "left-lane discipline" in school, Vassar....now we just dumb it down to "Hey, there's two lanes....let's have a free-for-all." Whether you chose to believe it or not, the reason why MANY people drive "aggressively" is because other discourteous drivers are holding them up. It's one thing if traffic is just jammed up, both lanes are taken and you have no where to go...then if someone has a lead foot and is acting like a nut, that is wrong. BUT, if you have the right lane and you COULD move over like so MANY times you do, you should! Why can't people understand THIS SIMPLE principle???? It's not like we are asking the drivers that have all the time in the world to get somewhere and want to drive like Grandma Moses to change their driving. All we are saying is "Please move out of the way so that I may get by." :cussing:

Another thing that upsets me to no end with this attitude I am describing is that all you every day joes with Vassar's attitude think you guys are the law. If someone is doing something that is dangerous, it is not up to you to hold them up more just because in your mind, it is dangerous. That is why there are police out there and that is their job. I just love it when someone sees me do something that THEY don't like, and they won't get in the right lane or whatever the case....or they deliberately put the brakes on when I am not tailgating them, just trying to get by and they think I am too close. Some words of advise for those that do that......it only fuels the fire of people like me with an aggressive personality and driving style to make me more determined to get around you. And trust me, people that do that to me when they had NO just reason to other than trying to BE the law themselves....WILL get passed. :laughing:

I think it comes down to everyone being courteous. I don't drive around looking to screw with people. I just want to be given the courtesy of getting where I am going in the most efficient manner as possible. My driving goes from normal to aggressive IMMEDIATLY once someone DELIBERATLY holds me up without any consideration for others on the road who are trying to get somewhere. While at the same time, if you want to be driving at or under the speed limit, DO IT IN THE RIGHT LANE!! :thumbs:

posted by  cmeseadoin

...and let us that deserve speeding tickets, get them...if you hold me up, how's the police going to see that I am speeding????

DUH! :banghead: :banghead:

Maybe you'll find me down the road pulled over...then you can laugh your a$$ off...and I'll slide down in my seat!
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posted by  BavarianWheels

I do not have a problem with this scenario I copy/pasted....does anyone else? Why? Because it is not my job to keep people from doing what they want. That is they they invented the police. Anyone with ten brain cells ought to know that EXPERIENCE is key to anything we do in life. How could anyone argue that this same paradigm does not exist with driving? To say that experience does not factor is merely is judging that everyone behind the wheel has equal capabilities, and GOOD GOD I know that isn't a correct statement!!!! :screwy:

I guess if you believe that the word "aggressive" driving is inherrently just a BAAAAD BAAAD thing because oh my goodness, someone could get hurt.....then you probably best sit in your house and never leave it because of the risk assumed in everyday life's activities. I mean, you could slip and fall to include breaking your neck on the way from the sofa to the fridge, so better yet, stay on the sofa because we surely would not want that now!

Maybe when we're all 90 years old and don't have the drive to make life a fun experience anylonger....we'll agree with "those of you" who think the rest of us are crazy. You know who you are! Yeah, I guess that is what it boils down to. :screwy:

posted by  cmeseadoin

Where did I ever say that I am knowingly holding people up, acting like some kind of law enforcement? There are two, usually three lanes of traffic on big highways. Hell, some even have five or six ONE way! How are you going to try and tell me that I need to get out of the way of crazed lunatic, when there are 2-5 more open lanes that YOU can be courteous and goto, instead of running up on my bumper because you want to be a badass.

You're saying, once again, the reason that people drive crazy is because of other drivers on the road. When infact, they are doing it for some kind of personal pleasure. If infact, you do think the other drivers, or "slow drivers", are to blame, you have some serious issues and shouldn't hold a license in the first place.

posted by  Vassar

Apparently you've never really known...and I'm going to make you aware.

Passing on the right is discouraged (if not illegal). I know this to be fact...at least in Hawaii...where police cars are not marked!!
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posted by  BavarianWheels

AMEN to you Bavarian!!!!!! Personally my attitude with aggressive driving has always been, if you aren't the law, get outta my sight because I have no obligation to you. I had a neighbor one time when I used to live in Southern Maryland stop me one evening by flagging me down when he was with his kid on a bike in a 25mph zone. I was doing just about 35-38mph at the time and the road was about 5 miles back into my neighborhood, NO visual obstructions. I already had a 1.5 hour commute one way to work, so it was hard for me to drive that SMOOTH and long road at 25, it was actually impossible.......so I did about 40 most of the time. The neighboor said when I rolled down the window, "Buddy, this ain't a race track." I HATE being called buddy by people that don't know me, so I said "Listen man, I commute 1.5 hours to work, this house is the further back in the neighborhood away from everyone else's place, and you are not the police. Furthermore, I am always in control of my car and at 35 or so I can handle it just like 25. BIG DEAL! Honestly, if you think we have a problem, why don't you call the people that CAN do something (IE...police) about it because I have nothing for you, Have a nice day. I drove off. Had I been doing 60 and driving like a fool, I would have understood! People like that PISS me off. Mind your own damn business and let the people paid to do it, DO IT! I will hear NOTHING from someone that has no authority if I am not wrong or doing something seriously dangerous.

posted by  cmeseadoin

Passing on the right is not illegal in Virginia. I seriously don't think that law enforcement has a problem with someone passing on the right on a five lane highway.

posted by  Vassar

You seriously shouldn't have a license. You feel you shouldn't respect other drivers, which is shit.

You are saying that you don't have to follow the law unless law enforcement is visible.

You are an idiot and you just proved your stance on this, good job.

posted by  Vassar

Vassar, you've not OBVIOUSLY driven interstate 95 here btw Richmond and Washington DC recently. Yeah, there are 2-5 lanes all the time....and you KNOW what? Some fool is sporadically stationed IN EVERY SINGLE lane on the DAMN interstate to that in order for me to set cruise control on 73, I have to wind in and out of people and constantly change lanes because they ARE ALL in EVERY friggin lane of the road. But I guess your answer to that is....well I should slow down to 55, pick one the morons to follow and do everything he does because THAT would be the safest thing to do??!! Sorry dude, you're ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY CLUELESS!!!! If you cannot see the points made in the above-mentioned posting by all of us, not just me.....then I will just finish my efforts on this futile debate with a good ole fashioned :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

posted by  cmeseadoin

Gee Vassar, seems to me that if we took a pole right now, I believe with a little intuition, I could say that most would agree with me on the gist of the arguements I am displacing here. You are thinking inside the box, I guess you do that best. And the question I have for you since you are the one that makes all your rules and then believes they have the right to enforce them on everyone else is.....if I don't deserve a license, are you going to come take it away from me big boy!

Oh and before I forget, I am starting to feel ever-so offended at some of the name calling you are begining to flame at me. I would certainly hate to have to escalate this to one of our moderators to have you reminded that this chat forum is for discussions, good debates and the like, of which I think/thought I was having. I know that when I was "reprimanded" the other day for my thoughts about you, I turned from name calling to wise conversation.....of which I am "trying" my best to do now even though your never changing, as another member has indicated, hard-headedness is not helping. On the other hand, you're posting purely three sentences....none of which indicate keen diction nor wise judgement in their use to flame another member....and using four letter words to do it. Shame on you! Don't you remember the rules of engagement Vassar? What a conundrum we're in....a rather morale turpitude at that!!

posted by  cmeseadoin

How about you "guys" go make your own thread and flame eachother there.
:thumbs:

posted by  jzxTT

Gee thanks, not even any moral support. As I recal from you postings you were saying the same thing! :banghead: I am done flaming Vassar, his (_o_) is probably feeling sore. This "guy" is going to bed....enough fun for one night! :sleep:

posted by  cmeseadoin

You're the immature 26 year old that is doing most of the flaming, not to mention, telling me to come take your license away because I don't think you should have one in the first place. You are telling me that I am thinking inside the box, when infact you are also. I don't agree with what you are saying as you don't agree with me. We are both stuck in our little boxes, "big boy."

So, because I make a statement in three sentences, you assume that I don't have wise statements? If that is the case and we live by your theories, look back earlier in the thread and see some nice statements, with a little bit of thought, unlike yours.

Everyone else is saying they drive aggressive, but they aren't justifying how it's right. Aggressive driving isn't right, and you are the only person saying #$%# everyone that's not wearing a badge. One day, that thought will catch up with you. :wink2:

posted by  Vassar

One more thing, the quote is supposed to come before your statement so people know who and what you're referring to.

There is your basic computer enlightenment of the day. Have a nice night! :fu:

posted by  Vassar

you're right.. well just not in this thread ok.. thanks :thumbs:

posted by  jzxTT

WORDS OF WISDOM THAT AREN'T MINE BUT THAT I'VE MODIFIED SLIGHTY
Most people have a fairly fixed set of beliefs with which they are comfortable. These help them get through life and if these ideas are in jeopardy, they may react irrationally.This involves a psychological defence mechanism known as 'avoidance of cognitive dissonance'. I refer to this problem as ‘antiprocess’ because while the person pre-processes the information subconsciously, he or she does not process the information consciously. Indeed, he or she actively evades conscious processing. When this happens the person can appear to be stubborn or even stupid. Once you learn to spot ‘antiprocess’, you will see how it causes irresolvable arguments. Certain types of phrases, which I refer to as 'unwarranted uscription' serve as warning signs that a debate has run up against ‘antiprocess’. There are other warning signs. It is my belief that we pick up these techniques as we learn language and keep them in our subconscious catalogue of defensive techniques. We may understand on a purely rational level why each of these techniques are fallacious, but we are nonetheless tempted to fall back on them when our emotional well-being is threatened.

When people think they are not being given a fair ‘hearing’, they may become more and more emphatic. When you see people ramping up in this manner, an argument is looming. On the other hand, some people do this habitually when they write messages. Everything is stated as if it should be obvious to any intelligent person once they have the facts (as the poster sees them). This stands as a subtle challenge, if not an insult to those who may think differently. People who demand to be 'heard' may also increase the length of their posts or post more often. This often has the opposite effect to what they desire because people start skimming or skipping what they say. This is a conversation that is heading for trouble.

posted by  snoopewite

Vassar, I'm done with you. You simply are not worth anyone's time in here, much less mine. Your statements are one-sided and your opinions only reflect how you see things. The bottom line is you have missed EVERY single point I have made using the "let the police do their jobs and don't YOU try and do it" philosophy. I know you are one of those left lane huggers whereas if you're there, and someone's coming, you will stay there because YOU are within the LAAAW by doing the speed limit. Well, I have one thing for you on that note BUD....it's :fu: :fu: . and on top of all that, you have no power to change things either. You'll never change my driving style as I am MORE than sure you won't change your's. That's fine by me because I always get around those with their heads up their (_x_) on the road, EVERY SINGLE time. You may want to think about getting out of the way though next time, because with people like you on the road, people like me may put your life in danger when we get upset because you won't move graciously. Us aggressive drivers....how dangerous we are. Now we wouldn't want that now would we?

Sounds like you are pretty busy with school.....time to skip back to class mate and focus on your studies......you've got a long ways to go to catch up.

posted by  cmeseadoin

Now snoopewite, I agree with you. That was a great summation on this whole thing. I always refer to it as 'cognitive dissonance' or the ability to rationalize anything with one's beliefs and actions someones at opposite ends of a reasonable thinking spectrum. Personally, everyone in here has made some good points on aggressive driving....what cracks me up is that "certain" members can't say "yeah, you're right...I can see that....but I also think that....." whereas an intelligent conversation could be born. Instead, I love to argue with people that defer to OH GOD, you're just an idiot, how can you thnk that. If we go to the very ORIGINAL posting where this allllllll started involving me responding to VWHOBO regarding the fast and furious....it is clear who blew the "rational thinking and reply" strategy out the window and reacted with name calling and the like. People like that will never win with me, no matter if I agree or disagree..why?, because they wear their intelligence on their sleeves when replying to a strager with name calling and defamation. I'll single someone out like that such as "vassar" and that person could never be proven to me as anything but worthless. So basically if someone wants to play the game with me.....fire it up.... because you'll never win. Esp. someone that has made it clear to the world that they are an idiot. I have a car show to go to, specifically the one at the Richmond Convention Center. Gotta jet.

posted by  cmeseadoin

agreeing with snoope. therefore im closing this thred until everyone chills out. :smoke:

posted by  SuperJew

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