Atheism is the fastest growing "religious" identity in America

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I think its a good read... and... yup I'm a minority

posted by  TheFieroKid

A lot of my friends are (or at least claim to be) atheists...I personally do believe in God, but not the whole Bible thing with Adam and Eve...It's definitely a good read though....

posted by  chris_knows

Is there a purpose behind this thread or is it just another attempt to stir shit?

posted by  vwhobo

I think it's the latter.:2cents:

posted by  elchango36

Not really, I read it and thought it was an interesting read... personally I don’t see anything about it that could "stir shit". It just an observational piece... if you find something objectionable about it, perhaps you should just turn around an exit the thread...

I guess I was also curious as to how many others might be in the minority... I don’t encounter a lot of other agnostics in my daily life... and was curious at to the validity of the numbers given in the article. Obviously those of you with strong religious feelings will want to chime in… and your more then free to… but it wasn’t intended to spark a philosophical debate.

posted by  TheFieroKid

And you just dispayed publically why something like that stirs shit. I agree it's interesting, but a car forum is hardly the place for such a topic. Add to that your attitude of closed mindedness "if you find something objectionable about it, perhaps you should just turn around an exit the thread", and it'll turn into a real barnstormer. When someone comes along and questions your choice (or non-choice) of faith, are YOU going to find that objectionable and leave? I bet not, you'll piss and moan as usual.

I mean come on, get real. You're not even man enough to say what your choice is, you just identify yourself as a minority. What kind of namby pamby bullsh*t is that?

posted by  vwhobo

Aagin I'll respond to the second edited part seperately. Don't you think you're being a bit closed minded and presumptuous when you say "obviously those of you with strong religious feelings will want to chime in" to me. You've already made up your mind what my beliefs are.

posted by  vwhobo

Oh I’m sorry, I’m agnostic, I don’t believe we as humans can even begin to understand who or what god is... and WTF this isn’t the place is this not the off topic section? there’s lots of shit in this section that doesn’t pertain to cars or have any real need to be here... quit censoring me!

posted by  TheFieroKid

Censoring YOU. You're the one who wants to censor me. Remember your remark that I quoted earlier, "if you find something objectionable about it, perhaps you should just turn around an exit the thread". That is censorship. I only gave my opinion. I have no power to censor you nor any desire.

posted by  vwhobo

Obviously you do, I say the same thing every one says to any one who bitches about what’s on TV, turn the station if you don’t like it! That’s not censorship that’s me telling you if you don’t like it leave! You know me well enough to know that you probably wont like my post by the subject title, and so you should know whether or not its going to be one that will anger you and any rational person would avoid said aggregations!

And perhaps if I got more responses to my car related posts (like where I asked for help with my cars) I might actually have something more to talk about... but as far as it goes and as much as I love this forum its not the wealth of technical knowledge that some other sites I’m members of are.

And as a small point of fact, I belong to several forums not all car ones, and a woman posted about her love for Jesus no rhyme or reason for her posting it other then perhaps her overwhelming happiness over it… but I didn’t even post in it… why? Because I just turned around and walked away, I knew I had nothing positive to post and what ever I said would probably just upset her and there was no reason for that she and I don’t get along but there was no reason for it…

posted by  TheFieroKid

You see, the problem with you and people like you is you start a thread like this having preconcieved notions. You've already decided that I have nothing to add, that I have strong religious beliefs and that I'm trying to censor you. Unfortunately, you're wrong on all counts. I've just been a member of this forum long enough to know that discussions about religion get rather heated... Mostly because peole like you who don't really care to hear what others think with an open mind. Just like you've done to me since the beginning of this thread.

As for your car related posts, IMO if you didn't have such a strong record of refuting any information that is provided to you if it doesn't support your ideas, you just might get some more help. You have a long history on this forum of being closed minded. People have learned that and so that's what they expect of you everytime. Because of your past actions you've put yourself in the category of "who cares".

posted by  vwhobo

You obviously didn’t have anything to add, all you wanted to know was if I was trying to stir shit which was not my initial intent, nor is it now. How am I closed minded? I’ve read the bible, I’ve gone and sat in on rabbi sermons… have you? I’ve gone to pro-life rallies, and gwb support rallies during the elections, can you say you’ve sat in at pro choice rallies or Kerry rallies?... i have a very open mind to different cultures beliefs and peoples... just because I may not agree doesn’t mean I don’t listen or understand and that’s what being open minded is about!

I posted once in a thread about engine design and what happened to me, was I was bashed and yelled and told how I was completely wrong in a tone that I found extremely unpleasant so no I wasn’t going to listen or take what anyone had to say with more then face value... and by the way I’ve talked to several mechanics since then and they’ve all told me that the I design is the longest lasting for all the reasons I posted in that thread, tho they did say I was wrong about the boxer engines.

Now when I asked if my mechanic was ripping me off I wanted to truly know, and I got like 4 reply’s to that, I wanted to know what every one thought, there were those who said it was steep and I didn’t say your ling or anything infact I agree with them, and when i asked about help with my control arm its self now how I should go about replacing it how in the hell am I going to not listen?

What you and every one else has done is paint me with a single colored brush because of my political and religious views, and that my friend is wrong. If you, or JediMario or any one else I don’t get particularly along with, had a question about your car that I had the answer to, I would gladly give you the advice you/they turned to this forum for... unfortunately you cant be bothered to show me the same curtsey and that makes you the hypocrite you know you are.

posted by  TheFieroKid

And you have once again proven why you are looked upon as you are on this forum. There of course is no possible way that you might be responsible for the way people treat you here. You're just a victim, everyone is out to get you because of your political and religious views. You are an ignorant individual, and let me give you one instance that proves my point.

If you took the time to read these forums, you would know that I am also an agnostic and have been for basically my entire adult life. That little man is longer than you have been on the planet. Honestly some of the threads have been deleted by the thought police, you know, the individuals I rail against all the time which by the way you never join in on because it doesn't directly affect you. Also, until reading this thread I had no idea that you were also agnostic. So, tell me again how I'm discriminating aginst you because of your religious beliefs. Make it short and to the point, because I'm not really in the mood for any more of your whining. And if you're going to respond, try some intellectual honesty this time and not emotional chest beating.

posted by  vwhobo

I don’t read every thread on the forum so I must have missed an opportunity to join you in some railing of people who must have disserve it.

I’m not a victim of anything more then myself and how people cant move on.

Now obviously you cant be discriminating against me because of my religious views as that is yet another thing we have in common... but you never have anything nice to say. I’ve complemented you before or agreed with you in posts... but you’ve never once shown the same towards me. But maybe its my political views... we know those differ from you on a few points... I don’t know why you dislike me so much... but I can tell when it started and I can tell you have no animosity towards you.

So if you have something to add to the original post... you know your thoughts that our beliefs are growing, that we are one of the last peoples who can be hated openly any of the other things that the article says. Any body else for that matter.

posted by  TheFieroKid

All I can say is victim attitude. If you look for something hard enough you're going to find it. Watch the TV show Black/White one time and you'll see exactly what I mean. I don't care what your political views are, your sexual orientation is, where you're from, the color of your skin or how much money you have. I don't dislike anybody, not even my ex-wife, and especially someone on an online forum. I don't even get pissed off, just very frustrated sometimes. I also don't hold any grudges, but like an elephant I don't forget. And I suppose most importantly for this post, there is no animosity against you.

posted by  vwhobo

Dammit, you did it again. I don't disagree with everything in that article, but it is written with a very left wing slant which I find somewhat annoying. And I have trouble believing the numbers, but I'm admittedly basing that on the area that I live. You know what they say about polls and statistics. Figures lie and liars figure.

posted by  vwhobo

:pop: :clap:

posted by  nighthawk

See I too find the numbers hard to swallow... but what he says about not being treated nicely I see that all the time, there are alot of people in my real life who won’t even talk to me once they find out my beliefs.

Id like to know where they got the statistics... it’d be cool to know that there’s that many of millions of people who think the way I do... just like when you find people who own the same hard to find or unliked car you do.

If nothing else VW we serve as entertainment to the rest of the forum ^

posted by  TheFieroKid

I think it's all in how you approach it along with the type of people you're dealing with. I have never walked up to a person, stuck out my hand and said "Hi, my name's Hobo and I'm agnostic". As far as I'm concerned, discussing religion is something better left for close friends and family. And you think we've got it bad. I knew my wife for eight years before we became involved (she worked for me for the first seven) and then it took another two before she told me she was Wican. How do you think that'd go down in the bible belt where we live?

posted by  vwhobo

I don’t introduce my self as matt the agnostic...LOL, but if someone asks me I will tell them.

LOL, you’d get shot...but not by me, my last gf was a practicing Wican, though to be honest I don’t think she fully grasped the religion, she was only 19.
My friend who’s a manager of a pet store is a gothic, practices the actual religion… and tho I don’t fully understand it, I think it’s cool he goes his own way.

posted by  TheFieroKid

I know several parcticing wiccans.
I know some who claim to be practicng goths but aren't realy. Just think it would make them cool and like always it didn't.
I don't force my beleifs on anyone in any way.
And by the way the right wing slant is highly more prodominate and is very annoying.

posted by  Aondor

Firstly, I suggest that you look at the following link...

Click (

Ok, read it? good. Now to be honest I didn't really understand what you were saying above, and seeing as how you haven't replied to your thread, i'll use the assumption that you pressume nobody has responded to your question. Remember, it doesn't take alot of time to find a thread that you've written, so in future, check back on such items. I thought more of you! :wink2:

As for the religeous debate. Hobo has just basically confirmed what he initially thought lol. Yes, he might have been part of the reason this thread has gone like this, but he also predicted it would too! :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

Ok, first you broke my heart :laughing: telling me I had to get a ball joint breaker... I’ve never even heard of that tool... and it seems very difficult... I didn’t know what to say in response so I didn’t... I did decide that I will have it fixed by a professional... I don’t think its something I can do myself. But honestly I didn’t think it needed a response, no body asked me a question, you seemed to know what you were talking about (infact I quoted you to my dad when he asked me what id need to do to fix it myself) and since you were the only one to respond I figured no one else cared enough to help id just leave the thread, though I do appreciate that you responded, and your advice coincided with that from others.

And as for the way this thread turned out, is it possible that it was a self-fulfilling prophecy for hobo? Perhaps because he wanted it to go this way it did. If his response was like that of when I finally got him to comment on the article and not on me things would be different. :2cents:

Hostility always begets hostility, if I’m approached with a civil tongue and respect I as a rule always try to respond in kind.

posted by  TheFieroKid

I apreciate what you're saying there, but by not responding you make it appear that you have either not read it, or have, but are just being ignorant and not responding to it. If you required more info, I would have attemoted to supply it for you, but to me, it seemed as though there wasn't alot more to say lol. I mean the lower arms and ball joints are right infront of you. All ya do with a ball joint breaker....or splitter if it's less painfull for you to hear lol, is hit it with a hammer!

Maybe you're right in the above paragraph, but I think it's more to do with vwhobo, being vwhobo?....I certainly agree with the lower paragraph. Treat others how you wish to be treated....infact, I believe I said that somewhere in the ruless lol. Sometimes ya just gotta give as good as you get, eventually the thread being ripped apart will die or be locked! :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

There's only two problems with your theory.

1. We never really argued or created a big hub bub. 90% of this thread was me trying to get you to realize that things are not always as they seem.

2. Threads of this nature have gone on for pages, gotten people banned and then been deleted WITHOUT my involvement. AT ALL. All I did here was ask a question and then call it as I see it.

posted by  vwhobo

That’s definitely not what I’d want to convey at all... I’ll take better care to not give that impression in the future.

posted by  TheFieroKid

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