Massacre in Canada.

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The Cruel Seal Hunt Has Begun.

Canada's annual seal hunt, the largest commercial slaughter of marine mammals on the planet, began at dawn on Saturday. Even as you read this, fishermen are clubbing and shooting baby seals in the North Atlantic, just to earn a few extra bucks by selling seal skins. Last year, 98.5% of the seals killed were two months of age or younger—and veterinary reports indicate that many seals have been skinned while still conscious and able to feel pain.

The human being is the worst species on Earth...

posted by  flesh

**I know he's a troll but I had to put in my :2cents:**

As cruel and disgusting as it is, that's just the way life is. I won't let it ruin my day, and most of the people working there are doing it only because they don't have any other options and need the money...Personally, I'm confused as to why people would buy Seal skins...:2ents:

posted by  chris_knows

Chris, maybe my first posts were troll-typical, but that was because the people from our forum wanted to spend a good-time by coming here. I suppose that most of the things that we said were not understable for you. In fact, there wouldn't be understable by any other people (except by us).

I heve discovered in this forum a way of communication between people from other countries, with a vision of things probably quite different from mine.

According to the topic in this post, I would like to add that the cause of this seal-massacre may come from the exhausting of the fishing in Northern Atlantic. Continuous years of uncontrolled fishing have left our oceans without the neccesary amount of fish able to mantain the industry. I don't know if you know the tale of the chicken with golden eggs. We have killed the chicken. So, we have to look for another species for our people could earn their money.
This is money for today, starvation for tomorrow. We must stop our way of mistreating Mother Earth, because everything on his surface lies upon a extremely thin equilibrium. Maybe the damage we have done so far is irreversible, and we are condemned...

Regards.

posted by  flesh

I wish that people would just shut the **** up about the damn seal hunt already. It's been an annually recorded event since the 1700's, it's something that's been going on for a hell of a lot longer then any of us have been around. These people NEED to hunt the seals to do it.

And if you want to know why that such a high number of young harp seals are killed, the answer is simple - they're still whitecoated, meaning that their have yet to lose their white fur, which is obviously more attractive for tanning and reselling then the mottled colored skin found on older seals.

As for the inhumanity, the government has taken multiple steps to try and enforce the use of humane killing methods, and to ensure that the seal is indeed dead before being skinned. They have increased the number of penalties handed out to the sealers as a result of this, but however, when they are as spread out as they can get, it does become a little difficult to enforce the entire seal hunt.

Now as for celebrities making a fuss over the seal hunts. If they think that they, as one ****ing idiot, can make a difference just because of their status... I mean, Pamela Anderson practically demanded to speak to Stephen Harper in regards to the seal hunt. Why should he grant special consideration to her over anyone else? That's right, there is no reason to. Furthermore, if you haven't noticed, the really only outspoken celebrities that fight the seal hunt are also actively vegetarians, and are all actively involved with PETA.


Ugh, it's people like you, flesh, that make me sick.

posted by  dodgerforlife

Our points of view are very different. Maybe one of us is wrong, or maybe both...

posted by  flesh

were doing stuff on "death on the ice" the novel in school,

I dont have any huge problem with it,

in fact, the reason they kill the young ones is so they die instantly...

...most of the full grown ones dont get killed at first and end up falling in the water and sinking, now thats a waste...

im not against it or for it, but whatever:2cents:

posted by  nighthawk

Don't put words in my mouth pumpkin. Nowhere did I say just because a so-called "bad" thing happened previously that it is a good thing. I did however, screw up some words. What I meant to say is that they need to hunt the seals to survive. That is their livelyhood. Now if you will also notice there is still a large population of seals around. They were not hunted to near extinction, and not by native americans. There is a difference between the kind of people that hunted the bison versus the ones that hunt the seals. Furthermore, the government regulates the amount of seals allowed to be killed, so they will not be hunted and killed to the point of extinction like the bisons.




And I think your answer is useless, seriously. Of course a fur coat is not necessary for survival, at least not in 95% of the world. However, by the same token, neither is a car, or a computer, or junk food. There are a lot of things in this world that are not necessary for survival. Hell, look at most third world countries, they're lucky if they have shelter and clothing, things other governments have mandated that every citizen should have. You, being Euro, should know about luxuries, isn't it Holland that said that every citizen should have high speed internet access? I wonder how many trees and acres they ****ed right up to lay all that cabling out.



IT IS A CRIME. That is why they have regulated the seal hunts to try and make the killings more humane and also less damaging to the ecosystem. Furthermore, if you are from Europe, then why the hell do you honestly give a ****?! The EU already won't buy seal products!



Yeah, that was just something else that pisses me off about the seal hunts, so I thought I would throw it out there.




How about you go learn some more before you try to start shit. Okay muffin?

posted by  dodgerforlife

If that is so then there is no reason to stop hunting. :2cents:

I don't care if people go off hunting in Canada, so long as they kill the animals in a way that doesn't torture them (one or two shots in the head should do it).

posted by  thermo

Then get a gun and do the job. :hi:

Starting with yourself. LOL j/k

posted by  thermo

ever given a thought to what would happen if humans didnt hunt?
mass over-population, too many of a species can be worse than too few.

posted by  davsmitty

I hear baby seal taste like chicken:drool:

posted by  Voda48

LOL Not sure about that, but when I typed << "seal tastes like" >> in google I got this



:laughing:

posted by  chris_knows

I think I'll go find out haha

posted by  dodgerforlife

Just because you think an animal is cute doesn't mean that you should bother people about it. I'm fairly certain everyone knows that animals are being killed in less than humane ways everyday.

Concerning your first post I doubt fishermen are killing seals "just to make a few extra bucks". Way up north, fishing is pretty much the only industry. Fishermen in general are hard workers who put up with a lot just to put food on the table. Bill Gates is not up there bashing seal skulls to make a few extra bucks.[/COLOR]

posted by  giant016

Calling me pumpking does not says much good about you. I think I have treated you respectfully.


That is a good topic to discuss about. I see you live in Canada (I envy you for living in such a beatiful place, I have seen pics of your land on a webpage and they're wonderful). I don't know how many pepole live there and the seal-hunting is their way of life. I've read that about 300.000 seals are allowed to be killed. Please, give me numbers. If there are 1.000.000 people living of this industry, maybe they can try to be allowed to kill more seals.



I hope so. In fact, I don't consider Canada as agressive to the enviroment like, for example, Japan or Norway. I hope that what you're saying is true. Remember what is happening to whales. There were several species of whales extincted, and some more endangered species. In fact, this is a great topic to discuss about.



In this point our opinions are not far. You have mentioned third world and luxuries. Maybe a lot of first world luxuries depends on third world miseries.
The example of Holland doesn't tell me anything to me. Unfortunately not every country in UE has the same conditions of living. Don't see Europe as a country. UE people have in common the Euro (and not every country as you know). Every country inside UE has its own problems and idiosyncrasy.



Being European doesn't entail that I agree the government. Personally I don't buy anything related to seals.

The fact that I'm here with you is a way of learning more. By telling me muffin you are disrespecting me again. I hope this is the last time, OK?


For finishing this post, I'd like to say that apart from some malicious words you told me, I expect that we can really make this discussion enriching.

Looking forward to reading from you again. Regards.

posted by  flesh

I think we have not reached the point of irreversibilty yet, but if we continue doings things in our shot-time profit, we are about to get that point.

According to the information that I have read, they don't shoot. And killing baby seals just for getting their furs is not acceptable to me. A white fur may be more attractive, but not more useful. If the hunted seal is an adult, it should have more surface of fur, I think, and be more useful.

Regards.

posted by  flesh

I was not joking. The amount of brutalities man commited is very large.
I'm not telling that all men are brutal. I would never get a gun and never shoot any animal. Obvious to say I won't shoot a person.

I don't understand your sense of humour, sorry...

posted by  flesh

I think you are half-right. Think about how long ago did humans appeared on Earth and how long ago life arose.

There are natural means of getting populations in equilibrium. For million of years this has been this way. Man is not clever enough to keep this balanced. Maybe I am pessimistic... or realistic, I don't know...

posted by  flesh

I have read your quotations. Some commentaries to them:

First of all, sorry for the misspellings. English is not my mother tongue, and although I try to write it correctly, sometimes there are words that I misspell.

You have faith in governments. I wish I had too. For instance, look at Japanese and Norwegian government and the whale-hunting...

Aquaculture... interesting. I have never heard of it. If you can explain a little more...

You said that nowadays governments are more concerned about Nature. Then, what is your opinion about George Bush's plans of drilling tests for oil in Alaska?

If reading my posts somebody had reached the conclussion I am against fishing and fishermen, nothing further to my intention. As you said, fishing has been done for ages. We must know that Mother Earth has not infinite resources and we have to take advantage of them smartly.

Regards.

posted by  flesh

Dont sharks kill seals too?

posted by  thunderbird1100

From the footage I've seen of the clubbing, I marvel at how God managed to pack so much into the human body and control all of it with a brain the size of a pea.

posted by  Wally

Yes, but they do kill seals in order to keep themselves alive. Seals are an important source of food for sharks. When the population of sharks increases, then the population of seals will be reduced. So, the sharks population must decrease, due to the lack of food. This is the natural balance. Man is not playing with the same rules in this.

posted by  flesh

Sorry but my English is not so good for understanding your sense of humour...

posted by  flesh

So what I don't understand is why your panties are not in a knot over the killing of cows in a slaughterhouse. Is that better? How do we justify killing of either? Is it because you eat beef?

There are a million "inhumanities" going on all the time, why should we care about baby seals anymore than letting people starve? Why should we care about baby seals more than the killing of our own young with abortion?

You are going to need some better reasons than what I have read for anyone to really give a flying F#$%, there are things much worse that go on everyday. So lets put the crying for poor seals on the back burner for a bit.

posted by  Voda48

Simple reason why they don't use the guns for the baby seals - their fur coats are the moneymakers, and if they miss the shot and put a hole in the coat, the value is reduced. That and the fact that they use a hardwood club, and the baby seals skull isn't that thick yet, so a swift blow and it's lights out for the seal.

posted by  dodgerforlife

He's trying to say that he's amazed at how senseless human beings are.

posted by  dodgerforlife

I don't know too much about sharks, but I don't think a lot of them live that far north, especially where there is ice covering the water...

posted by  dodgerforlife

I wonder how that would work on ex-wives? Maybe I should start the patent paperwork now. :wink2:

posted by  vwhobo

All excellent points. You could also mention the pig slaughtering, chicken slaughtering, bison and buffalo slaughtering... Think of basically any fast food joint, and think of where that meat came from.

You know what strikes me as odd? People moan and bitch over the seal hunt, but don't even touch the markets in Japan/China. I'm talking about the ones where you pick the animal you want, and they slaughter it in front of your face, in public. The public really doesn't have to see what happens during the seal hunt, they chose to. But everyone walking past one of those markets can see whats going on...

posted by  dodgerforlife

why are we concerned with inhumane treatment of animals? The animals arent human!

posted by  davsmitty

Do you even know what humane means?....

Humane means to be treated with kindness and compassion. Would you want to die slowly and painfully, or swiftly without knowing what the hell happened?

posted by  dodgerforlife

hmm, still, who gives a crap?

posted by  davsmitty

Why are humans not involved in the "natural balance"?

Are we not a part of nature?

Should we stop drilling for oil because it can be bad and pollute the earth, we dont NEED it in order to survive? Should we outlaw cigarettes because they kill people and have 2nd hand effects on others? Should we put in jail every person who doesnt recycle?

Seriously man, it's just an animal!

Why are people always concerned with "cute" animals and never something like a sloth?

posted by  thunderbird1100

Hey, problem solved!

Since there aren't many sharks up there the humans become the sharks!

posted by  thunderbird1100

Exactly

posted by  jedimario

do me a favour, read the rest of the thread, and see what my stance on the seal hunt has been all along.

posted by  dodgerforlife

I have to admit, this seems to be one of the best arguments I've had with a liberal. Often they are closed-minded and refuse to hear the other side of the argument.

posted by  giant016

LOL that is a nice way of putting it.

posted by  Voda48

We like to say that we're a loving and accepting country (as we beat baby seals to death with clubs) :wink2:

posted by  car_crazy89

There are a lot of different species of seals, not only in Northern waters. For instance, in the Mediterranean Sea we got some, and the water temperature is quite hotter than in Canada...
Regards.

posted by  flesh

Yes, you're right. The way of killing animals is usually horrible in most places. But, that's not a justification for doing any.

If you only knew the way traditionally were "slaughtered" pigs and lambs in my country... :ohcrap: It's enough to say that I never eat lamb because when I was a child I was present on one of this "slaughters"... :ohcrap:

Asia is maybe the place in which animals are most mistreated. Not only China, but Japan, Indonesia, etc... The things Japanese are doing with sharks are horrible. They kill them just for cutting their dorsal flipper in order to do soups and other strange dishes...

Regards.

posted by  flesh

That are only words. Do you think that animal are on the Earth for doing anything we want with them?

I saw on TV a documentary about big apes in Africa and the way people hunted them and killed them. Those big apes are not so far away from us in the evolutive chain...

posted by  flesh

I think we don't follow the rule of nature related to natural balance. We have deforestated a lot of surface on the Earth, poisoned waters and air, made dissapear lots of species...
No animal could be able to do that, just because if they change their enviroment, they are hurting themselves.
Man has changed his enviroment but he has the technology enough to keep alive. I really think that if we continue exploiting resources the way we do now, we will end up very badly...

I do care for cute animal the same way that for "ugly" animals.

Maybe the example of seals is not the best. I don't know the total population of seals of that species. Maybe 300,000 is a small percentage of them...

Have you ever heard about Sustainable Development?

It's not a matter of getting nobody to jail, but of being conscious of what we are doing and the results of this activity in the past, the present and the future, not only for animals and vegetables, but for man itself.

We are a part of Mother Earth. If we mistreat Her, we are mistreating ourselves (although we may not be conscious).

Regards.

posted by  flesh

Hello.

Sorry for having appeared suddenly and seeming I had everything knew. That's not the case.

I will only say that I am open minded and that we can discuss any topic. If everybody had the same thoughts, it would be a boring world, wouldn't it?
:orglaugh:
Regards.

posted by  flesh

Well, we sure as hell are not killing those ****ing seals. Christ, it's the Canadian Seal Hunt, on CANADIAN TERRITORY. Not on the MEDITERRANEAN!

The only shark found in Northern Artic/Atlantic Canada is the Greenland shark, which is a sluggish mother...so I can't see them being too affected by the seal hunt, as they also prey on animals that are constantly underwater..

Next to that, Killer Whales are another predator, but there isn't that many that far up north... They piss alot of time away in the Atlantic going after Beluga Whales...

And finally, there are the Polar Bears...but the harp seals are a small part of their diet, they mostly go after ringed seals.

So if we didn't do the annual seal hunt, then it could really through the ecosystem for a ****ing loop. Harp Seals don't have that many predators, and if the population of them was left unchecked, it would only further mess things up.

posted by  dodgerforlife

Hey you libby tree-hugger--give us a freaking break, why don't you? These people have been hunting seals longer than you've been alive. So just shut the heck up and go join greenpeace, or the PETA forums, where you and a bunch of other pinkos just like you can whine about the seal hunts.

posted by  musclecarneon

I vote for a ban of this moron. Anyone else agree?

posted by  dodgerforlife

umm, why? he just being as obnoxious as every other person on this site. hell Dr.Beer still hasnt been banned so why would this guy be?

posted by  davsmitty

If you want someone banned because you don't like his viewpoint, you're more of a danger to the forum than he is. He's ignorant and obnoxious, but he IS allowed to state his views. Censorship is the first step away from freedom, and banning him for this would be censorship.

posted by  vwhobo

Sorry, I didn't understood if you wanted me to be banned or the boy that told me to go to Greenpeace...
Please, clear it to me.

Regards.

posted by  flesh

That's what I think too. Anyone should be permitted to express his opinions (without coming into violence in any case).
Regards.

posted by  flesh

Hello. I think we are talking about different topics... I said that seals are not only in the Canadian territory because somebody told something about seals and sharks... I was only trying to say that there are another types of seals not living on cold places.

After man lived on Earth, were there seals? Reading you anybody can think that man is the natural predator of seals, neccesary to balance their population... I am not very sure of that, but I agree with you if in fact nowadays seals have no natural predators. I do not know that point, I am not an expert in seals.

You are giving me a lot of information because you live in Canada and you see things very near. That information may could make to change my mind. In what I am not going to change my mind is that we must avoid any suffering.

Ignorance (mine in this case) is a soource of conflicts. When knowing the basic info about the topics, is easier to reach some agreement.

Regards.

posted by  flesh

It's not that I don't like his viewpoint, its a matter of his intelligence level. I have no problem with his viewpoint, if you haven't noticed, I've been defending the seal hunt this whole time, just not the way he has. Have you read his posts? There really is no value to any of them whatsoever.

posted by  dodgerforlife

They serve one purpose. To lower the IQ of every person who reads them. Oh yeah, there's another. He makes some of the people on this forum look smarter. That in itself is a worthy cause.

posted by  vwhobo

No, we are not talking about different topics. You brought up the whole "seals in the Mediterranean" deal, so I responded that this is not about a Mediterranean seal hunt, it is about the Canadian seal hunt.



Neither am I, but a few google searches will tell you what you need to know. There are natural predators of seals, but not enough to stop the population from increasing largely every year if left unchecked. That is where the seal hunt comes into play. And I did not say that humans were the only predators of the seals, I merely named the only real known natural predators of the harp seals, and why the seal hunt does not affect them with our yearly hunt.




They are trying to stop the animals from suffering while being killed. The regulations include the type and size of weapons, and checking to ensure the animal is dead before moving on to the next kill. Unfortunately, as I have mentioned before, the Coast Guard can not monitor all the hunting at once, and that means that the regulations, such as the blink test, are overlooked..

posted by  dodgerforlife

Well goshdurnit Hoe-bo, mebbe I oughta talk like dem.....

But yes, that is an excellent point haha!

posted by  dodgerforlife

Sounds kind of like what's happening with the human population (and if it isn't that bad yet, it'll get there soon enough).

posted by  car_crazy89

It's not our fault we're so invinible :laughing:

posted by  chris_knows

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