yeah... im mad...

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ok, i know that there are quite a few non-americans on this forum (at least i think so) and i apologize and i realize you may not care.
i came across this band today called anti flag. and if i do say so myself they are one of the worst and most cowardly bands in the entire world. the bassis and "purpose" of their music is to say how the US govt is a lie and that it is the worst thing in the world. now, this is comming from a proud American citizen that has many many people in his family that were in and still are in the Armed forces. a number of those people were in the US Marines. here are some excerpts from one of their songs...

"You've gotta die, gotta die, gotta die for your government?
Die for your country? That's shit!"

"There's a Gulf War vet, dying a slow, cold death
And the government says, "We don't know the source of his sickness."
But don't believe what they say, because your government is lying
They've done it before and don't you know they'll do it again
A secret test, government built virus
"Subject Test Group: Gulf Battle Field Troops""

"First World War veterans slaughtered, by General Eisenhower
You give them your life, they give you a stab in the back
Radiation, agent orange, tested on US souls
Guinea pigs for Western corporations
I never have, I never will
Pledge allegiance to their flag
You're getting used, you'll end up dead"



so, if you are an American on this thread, please tell me whether you think this band is "speaking the truth" or not.

in my opinion, these bastards should be glad that they at least live in a country that actualy allows them to have this type of music. i dont quite think that they realize how good they have it here.
they dont realize that if they were to go nd live in another country and find "faults" in the other countries govt and they started to sing about it... the dont realize that they would most likely be executed because of treason to their govt... god i hate ignorant people, the people that live where they really do have it free, and its right infront of their damn face but they cant see it:banghead: :cussing:

oh, and apparently, they say that saluting the flag and saying the pledge of alliegence is cowardly...

posted by  starscream0

Wow. I've heard of them but for some reason it never occurred to me that their name referred to the US flag.

This country is what allows them to MAKE shitty music insulting our government. Go try that in Iran. You will be arrested on sight. (I am Iranian)

What hypocrites...

posted by  Bronxie

not really music anymore is it?

i used to think rap wasnt music until I started hearing all this Fuc*ed up shit

posted by  nighthawk

THANK YOU! im not alone in thinking that these "punk" bands are the worst thing in the USA:clap:

posted by  starscream0

no offense but I think your hard up scream music is just as bad:laughing:

but im sure plenty of people dont like things I love

posted by  nighthawk

I LOVE punk, Anti-Flag is good, just retarded lyrics as is most music :wink2:

posted by  99integra

yes, i will admit that my type of music isnt for everyone, and im not trying to go around saying that everyone should listen to my music or they should like a certain type of thing. but when "music" starts to down the country that you live in (sespecialy with me because i have so many members of my family and close friends that are in the military) thats when it just goes wayy too far

posted by  starscream0

I totally agree

and im canadian eh

or should I say, Newfoundlander By :laughing:

posted by  nighthawk

I do not agree with anything they say, however since they are in America, then they do have the freedom of speech. You don't agree with them? That's fine, neither do I. But you are not forced to listen to them.

posted by  Nissan_Altima

That's true too. :D

posted by  Bronxie

i havnt heard of anti flag or whatever theyre called! maybe they havnt reached the english shores yet???

posted by  True_Brit

I take it they don't teach history in the US? Eisenhower was not directing troops in the first world war, was he?

Insofar as the band and their lyrics, well this type of stuff has been around since Adam was a boy, no biggie really.

And there are lots of countries out there that aren't oppressive regimes that allow freedom of expression....it's not the preserve of the USA. In fact I think you may find US citizens don't necessarily get as many freedoms and quality of life conditions as say, we downunder do.

posted by  Wally

like?????

posted by  True_Brit

Well like the health systems, welfare systems, voting systems, education :wink2: , etc

posted by  Wally

i getcha!!!
our (england) health system (NHS) is the best in the world (apparently) and i dont know about the rest! apart from the fact that nealry everyone in england votes for labour, and labour are always the ones who bring england down, tony blair did well, first, but didnt quite meet his ambitions (in my opinion)

posted by  True_Brit

Thats because we actually make money over here, :thumbs:

posted by  Pythias

True. It certainly is the land of opportunity, especially for the corporations that band likes to denegrate. :mrgreen: From what I've seen on the movies everyone either lives in Georgian Mansions or converted warehouses that overlook Manhatten, drive exotic cars and have high paying white collar jobs on Wall St?

posted by  Wally

:laughing: :laughing: which would you prefer?

posted by  True_Brit

dont you have to pay for it though? i mean, in england, we have national insurance, which covers health, which in turn, the N.I gets deducted from our wages every payday (only a small sum)

posted by  True_Brit

Isn't the law to freedom of speech something like, it's free as long as it's not disrespectful or offensive?...The weird thing is, illegal immigrants benefit the U.S. more than bands like that and they love it more than them...

posted by  chris_knows

As long as it isn't obscene or slanderous.

posted by  Scolson

I saw them when they were on the Warped Tour this year, and they actually sounded decent. I agree that their lyrics are BS, and it seems every concert I go to there is some anti-Bush comments made by the bands. It's what the little punk-wannabe kids want to hear because it's cool to hate Bush. Like I said, I don't agree with their lyrics, but the fact that they are able to actually write and perform those lyrics kind of weakens their point IMHO.

posted by  giant016

That seems to be a very common misconception for you Aussies. We're not all rich, the average income is about $45,000 US dollars a year. Which is a good bit and much richer than the rest of the world, but nowhere near mansions and exotic cars.

posted by  jedimario

yeah, considering a nice, common size house around here in the US sells for nearly a million:thumbs:

posted by  starscream0

Let's not spoil a good image guys.

Take the topic of this thread for instance, the band is no doubt making a motsa from US fans as it should do from a country awash with money (current account deficit aside).

US$45k a year is a good average, not much more than here in OZ and a fair bit behind those Baltec countries, but then cars are cheap in the US and that's what counts. I only have three houses that are fairly minor, the largest only being 5000 sq ft (five ensuites, two games rooms, lounge, dining, family, kitchen, laundry, four double bedrooms, etc) and the smallest, my holiday house 2500 sq ft (soon to be 4,500). My industrial unit is also fairly modest. I average three new cars every four years. I could really use some of that US money to give me a leg up out of this miserable existence.

posted by  Wally

Well yeah, you could have all of that stuff, but do you have a McDonalds at every stoplight? :wink2:

posted by  chris_knows

Step 1. Turn the radio off and let the little faggots whine by theirselves.

Step 2. Stop bitching about music on this forum.

That was easy.

posted by  Benson

I think so. I had some food from there once and it made me feel ill, but someone must be buying it, although a lot of their adverts are pushing high sugar/high fat healthy foods like mega calorie bagels and salad. I think they are calling it an "healthy alternative", which beggers the question what their normal fare is.:mrgreen:

posted by  Wally

Actually I think our dollars and your dollars are totally different. :p The only country with a higher per capita income in the world is Luxembourg I believe, (slightly higher) because in WW2, Jewish people tried to hide their wealth in Luxembourg and when they came to retrieve it, Luxembourg flipped the bird. Well, that's one of the reasons anyways lol.

Also all of those benefits you mentioned, we do get them :\

Oh yeah, and you're right about Eisenhower. Eisenhower led world war 1. What ****in idiots LOL.


An average house in very wealthy areas may sell for a million, but most of the country is not like that.

Our country is certainly blessed with resources, land, and wealth. I'm glad to live here!

posted by  Bronxie

Don't confuse GDP/head with real income. It's easy to skew the GDP when actually large corporations are reinvesting the proceeds in third world countries like China and India. States and cities on the verge of bankruptcy should serve as a warning that productivity isn't keeping up with wages.

You also need to consider the value of the dollar, not in terms of currency trade, but in the quantity and quality of the goods that can be bought in the native country. The Oz dollar is artificially kept low because the Govt wants to stay competitive in the Asian region, deter imports and also because it's in the best interests of emerging and highly industrialised countries to get cheap metal ores, gas, uranium and coal which we have in extreme abundancies.

Australia produces far more meat, crops, etc than it needs, which means it's domestically cheap in comparison to other countries. But with a land mass similar to the continental US and only 15% of the comparable population infrastructure costs a lot more per head.

Interesting workforce per capita GDP for Ireland, :http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/categoryfront.php/id/1189/Country_snapsho ts.html

real value of the dollar http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4065603

posted by  Wally

or, do you have a Wendy's, Burger King, and McDonalds consecutivley in a quarter mile strip within one another??:thumbs:

posted by  starscream0

we have a bus stop every quarter mile! :laughing: :ohcrap:
but there isnt a macshack everywhere you look in england! the only popular thing is a corner shop in birmingham (i dont mean to offend if anyone knows what im on about!)

posted by  True_Brit

I know what you mean.....as with you though, not meant to offend!

posted by  Cliffy

im guessing that its something that others like but you two arent too fond of?

posted by  starscream0

It's good for convienience, lol.

posted by  Cliffy

as cliffy says, good for convenience, but you never see a white corner shop owner (maybe im taking this too far!)

posted by  True_Brit

Not too far....just keep on reassuring everyone that you're not racist...It's one of those subjects that we have to tread carefully around! :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

We talking about the Paki's? we can still call people by their country of origin here.

posted by  Wally

lol, true, true:laughing:

posted by  starscream0

I don't think I've ever seen a thread move so far off topic.

posted by  giant016

wow, i just noticed... most of the threads that i start are the ones that get way off of the orignial topic:doh:

oh well, i guess i could see that in a good way... :thumbs:

posted by  starscream0

Erm....we can too, sort of, it's just how it's intended to sound that's the problem in most cases, when speaking face to face, otherwise it's hard to tell, lol :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

ah yes, the ever occuring sweeping generalizations in todays society:laughing:

posted by  starscream0

this is completely off topic but where did you get that avatar pic starscream0???

posted by  True_Brit

but if someone writes in that they dont intend on being racist at all, im sure that woud be alright! after all, if a comedian can get away with it, anyone can (unless your the pope!)

posted by  True_Brit

i found it on rotteneggs.com (i hope i dont get nailed for advertising cause im not really) and you can probably find it on google by just typing in "orly"


i got a good laugh out of that:laughing:

posted by  starscream0

I really hope you're kidding, there's a small percentage of people over here who live like that or better.

posted by  jedimario

I agree, I think most of us are just scared about it to be honest, mainly due to the context it's usually used in. But yeah, sometimes comedians (and Popes.....:thumbs: ), seem to be scraping ever closer to the mark :doh:

posted by  Cliffy

Racism is no different than making fun of fat people, or ugly people. It's just such a touchy subject and everyone is so trigger happy to call someone a racist over any racial remarks, even if they aren't negative.

posted by  Bronxie

Does that mean I would be at the bottom of the pile over there, damnit. I'm currently building in under my little (holiday) house so that there are five bedrooms, three bathrooms, three toilets, two family rooms, two kitchens, dining room and lounge.

This is a shot from the waterfront on the Gold Coast Queensland. I know it's not something you would see on "This Old House", but it's my pet project and took me about three years to build on weekends.

The first floor is 3300mm up from the ground to give you an idea of scale. That's my family sized car underneath.

posted by  Wally

You Poms going to stand by and let that dickhead cleric in London publically call for the Pope to be executed? Where has the nation of "angry young men" gone?.... err I know, they migrated to Australia about a generation ago.:wink2:

posted by  Wally

i didnt know that mr hook (unless theres another cleric, which most likely theres lots of) wants the execution of the poope!
also, young angry men are mostly associated with Milwall Football matches :laughing: (google if you dont know what i mean)either that or drunk bar brawls with the oinks!

posted by  True_Brit

Don't you guys know what's going on in your own (now the Arab's) backyard? Your man Anjem Choudry stood up in front of a demonstration yesterday in front of Westminster Cathederal and shouted " those who insult Islam should be subject to capital punishment" and "Behead those that insult Islam". If it was a red headed albino Irish republican shouting similar taunts he would be in front of a Judge in two shakes of a lamb's tail, I'm sure.

Thought for the day

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

posted by  Wally

im at work from 10am till 8pm and the only way ill get to know that is if i read the day before newspaper or listen to the radio, which im not allowed to because work places have to aquire a liscence to listen to the radio from now on and the company i work for wont pay £120 for one!
plus im catching up on the news, an arab in plymouth was arrested the other day because he was burning the union jack (upside down too) and he was abit threatening to the police too, which is a little suspicious!!!

posted by  True_Brit

They arrest people for burning bits of rag!!! How stupid is that... or were they worried about the fire spreading?

posted by  Wally

heh heh! remember, our flag is a bit of yours! :laughing:
(although that makes no difference)

posted by  True_Brit

Yeah which makes it all the more enticing to burn :mrgreen: It'll be ours and those pesky New Zealander's soon if the pointy heads in your country have their way. It appears that the St George portion is historically wrong and needs changing (mainly because there never was any saint called George)

posted by  Wally

wasnt the knight who slayed the dragon french? god forbid if he was oz!

posted by  True_Brit

That house is probably about average size over here, but no doubt more expensive than the average house, seeing as it's waterfront and everything. At least that's the way it'd be over here.

posted by  jedimario

Even small waterfront houses (with even a small yard) here easily go for around $500,000 and up..

posted by  car_crazy89

i like Anti-Flag evn tho we kinda got off topic on it

posted by  Andrew0261

Well we are in the Off Topic section so it is appropriate also I think the Eisenhower remark may have been something he did while he was president in the late fifties when all the WW1 vets were getting old its like the vietnam vets now only they had mustard gas and bio weapons to deal with, so their heatlh would have declined much more rapidly.

posted by  skeetin870

exactly... they make so many damn false statements about war history in the USA its not even funny... so these little "rebel" kids who listen to this music and support it are not only rotting their brain but getting a wrong view on the american histroy aspect of it. in my opinion, they are literaly brainwashing the people who listen to this (no, i dont mean everyone that listens to it, but mostly everyone)

posted by  starscream0

I have a feeling you may need to brush up on your history....try a book not published by corporate america, and see what propoganda they have been feeding you:2cents:

posted by  BanffAutoSpa_ap

Excuse me? We're not in a country that doesn't allow a news network in because they are truly "Fair & Balanced"...

But anyways, about being mad, I pretty much wanna beat Chavez to a pupl right now, that man sickens me. The audasity of anyone to go in front of the world and to call America a "false democracy" and to call any national leader "the devil", it's mind boggling...

posted by  jedimario

maybe hes right, :wink2:

posted by  BanffAutoSpa_ap

I'm not saying I like Bush, but seriously, Chavez was not using an illustration, he was literly saying that Bush is the devil. For you to agree with Chavez shows me you've either been brainwashed by your government (not the other way around) or that you're so irrational your opinions don't need to and shouldn't be heard.

posted by  jedimario

i will say, im not too fond of Bush myself... but still, calling a leader like that the devil... thats just plain ignorance showing there...

posted by  starscream0

Well, as I'm fond of saying... the devil's in the details.

If you take a look at how Iran is run by the mullahs, and how Chavez has run Venezuela, you'll find out real quick who has inflicted the worst of evils on their own citizens.

The Iranian people have no freedom to criticize their own government, virtually no freedom to establish large scale businesses apart from their government, and virtually no human rights should they be arrested by a high ranking member of their government.

Chavez has made it virtually imposible for most successful businessmen, apart from those who work directly with the government, to engage in active commerce. The reason why the Florida market began to spiral upwards six years back is because Chavez's acts lead to a massive wothdrawl of financial and human capital.

The overwhelming majority of that capital was outside of the oil industry.

Here's a nice little article from the 'conservative' BBC regarding Chavez's 'citizen militias' which have an eerie resemblance to Hitler's brownshirts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4635187.stm

Note that they were preparing against fighting 'within' Venezuela. Could that force possibly be Chavez's opposition?


Here's one regarding Iran's economic difficulties...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3463771.stm


If you want to look at economic success and social integirty, you need to consider some of the basics that are simply unavailable in these countries. Due process, laws designed to protect businesses and citizens, even the simple existence of a free market economy doesn't exist in either country for all intensive purposes.

Until their citizens have the freedom and the right to pursue their own destiny, both countries will remain media glorified hellholes.

posted by  macarose

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