People Leaving?

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There has been a few people talking about how the site is becoming less active and that many contributors are leaving. It seems like one of the reason so many educated and well informed users (usually well mannered) are leaving is because they feel that the regulars on this sites are too critical and discourteous towards their efforts to help.

Being the auto ignoramous that I am, I have asked for help many times. I have also made many errors in writing about cars and its relations. In making a mistake, I would recieve many hostile responses instead of understanding that I maybe a novice and that I may need some enlightenment. I have become more and more reluctant to post questions on this site because of the threat that other users may bash my innocent question or comment.

Even those who have the knowledge and experience are reluctant to post here because of the acrimonious responses they have recieved. I have been PMed by a few users who were willing to help me with their expertise through the use of emails instead of this site because of the hostile nature of some of the users. Flat out, they feel unwelcomed.

This is part of a PM I've recieved. I will keep the user anonymous.
"I will no longer post on this board because of the beligerant attitude of the regulars, who seem to delight in demonising anyone with some nouse.

I have about 30 years playing with and modifying cars under my belt so I'm sure I can help you get up to speed enough to understand the basics."

These are the types of people this site need most but we fail to keep them on this site. Although a healthy amount of criticism is needed on an inquiring site like this, perhaps we can do it in a manner and language so that no one may be offened.

posted by  zipper

yea, ur right. even i have gotten pmed for a few questions to which i could never get an answer to, just alot of crap. it is true that some of the members just start bitching n if someone disagrees, they will throw a tantrum and just form a big bitchfest that never ends.

i dont know about the activity level, it sometimes gets quiet but i dont have anything to compare it with, so ill stay quiet on that department.

but yea, the hostility level needs to be toned down a bit. for now, the only 2 i have seen so many complaints about have been yogi and chrisv (mainly chrisv). other times, dsmer can get a bit immature but just throw him a lollipop and a DSM RULES magazine and he will calm down :laughing:

they are all good people (dsmer makes one good housewife), but yea, sometimes the hostility gets a bit annoying, specially chrisv's excess hostility.

posted by  Inygknok

sadly true..... :(

posted by  Ki2AY

I have also noticed a lot of tension here...But I for one cant wait to get back here for good!...I think I'll always post here, what ever happens!!! :thumbs: ...stick with it guys, what ever is going on here (I'm a bit lost myself, lol) I'm sure CF and it's members have the strength to overcome it :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

With the number of new people joining, this site should be thriving, but it's slightly inactive i have to admit

posted by  Ali T

i have enough laughs to stay in these forums just fine. forcing DSMer to cook my dinner and do my laundry.... sundown mopping my floor and doing my lunch... jzxtt cooking breakfast and polishing my nails while his gf cheats on him with me (j/k jzxtt :P :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: )

its all good though, we even have our big bad tyrants like chrisv... we could even pretend hes trying to take over the world and we must fight the forces of evil using our crankwalks, BHG's (supra problem), and timing belts (300's), oh, and our bullet proof transmissions! :laughing:

anyhow, the forum is still great and theres lots of good people to meet and make accomplices with.

posted by  Inygknok

I'm definetly not leaving any time soon.

posted by  abless

The next cry baby that post another "members leaving" thread, is going to receive a slap via the five fingers of "What".

posted by  What

See now it is the crap like this. Who the heck does this guy think he is?? Certainly no friend of the Hobo

posted by  Voda48

And you would be who? I'm glad to see that the inherent power of 16 posts under your belt has gone to your head. This is a legitimate thread. Please. If you are going to try to help, then post something worth reading.

Back to the subject at hand. I couldn't agree more, gents. It seems that the forum has reached a quasi-stagnant level, and I think it is partly because of the animosity that has developed. Seems that rivalries are becoming more and more common- such as Inygknok vs. DSMer (who might want to consider maturing a little bit. I think he antagonizes people, and ends up biting off more than he can chew), and like was stated before, ChrisV and his relentless global assaults. Come on, folks. I know I am prone to a sharp tongue, but let's try to hold it for the sake of discussion. Stay together for the cars, kids. :ohcrap:

posted by  Patrick

Actually, I am a friend of Hobo. I apologize for my behavior, there was a reason I acted that way. It was his suggestion actually......
You'll see my real, "mature" side now. Trust me, I can add to the forum. I'll cut down on the "slapping" also....

posted by  What

You are such an idiot, it's not even funny! ...and it all began with your Intro.

posted by  BavarianWheels

I haven't been here for a couple of weeks, and although I'm a n00b, it seems I didn't miss much...

posted by  TanyasMkIISupra

what nice imagination you have there... :thumbs: (seriously) almost sounded like a poem lol

posted by  Ki2AY

First off nobody is going to believe you. You would have been more belieable if you had said you were a student of his or something like that. I personally think you are full of it and I agree w/ Bav:

posted by  Voda48

lol, i guess ill start writing poetry in here then :D

posted by  Inygknok


but yea, the hostility level needs to be toned down a bit. for now, the only 2 i have seen so many complaints about have been yogi and chrisv (mainly chrisv). other times, dsmer can get a bit immature but just throw him a lollipop and a DSM RULES magazine and he will calm down :laughing: [/QUOTE]

Well this came as a surprise and i was sort of ashamed of myself for getting complaints, but what amazed me was that nobody said i was being a dick. I am a very laid back person and i feel that if i am rude to anyone that i should be told. I will automatically apologize for my actions. I dont know what was said and i will not ask but i never disrespected anyone or became outright childish with my responses. I have said things with no knowledge as to what i was talking and for that i apoligize. The only time i can think of that i was rude was when i told a member here that he was yelling at me for saying autos sucked, but he didnt notice when i said in the very next post that autos werent bad. That was the only thing i got mad at because he had no reason to antagonize me when i already took back what i said. But IF YOU THINK I AM ACTING STUPID TELL ME PLEASE. ITS HARD TO OFFEND ME :laughing:

posted by  VMJYogi

yo momma is so fat, she put on a yellow poncho and people thought the earth was crashing into the sun.

did i offend u now?

posted by  Inygknok

This is great, I was just going to start a posting on how I feel about this and someone else already did.

Here's my bottom line. I am sick and tired of reading postings and hearing about all these people that do NOTHING productive in this forum but bitch and complain that others are too discourteous and too mean to other users, therefore, those other people are leaving. WHO CARES!!! I have flamed many people on this forum, however, there is NEVER not a reason for me to have done so. I see NO glory in being a mean ole' SOB to people, and I don't do that without cause. When cause is present, you bet your sweet ass I will call it out. It wakes people up and makes them realize that if they want to deal with me, they'll have to arise to another level because I don't stoop to theirs. Granted I am NEVER an asshole to anyone for no reason as there is no reason to be; If you LOOK at the majority of postings, MOST of the flaming is done because the person that typed it initially carries themself as a MORON. I'm sorry, but if you come into a CAR CHAT FORUM and come across as in-articulate and STUPID by gramatically carrying yourself using words such as "wiv" for with and "mae" for my as well as not providing ANY useful information as to your problem, what car you have etc.etc, then what in the F*CK did you come here for? Get the hell out, I have ZERO tolerance for YOU! You are a sub-par being. If you misrepresent yourself online as you would not do in person, I have ZERO tolerance for YOU as well! I don't mind a bit that not everyone knows much about cars....that is fine! Do NOT come on here looking like a dipstick that obviously KNOWS better. Instead, come on with a clue and tell us what you need and what we can do to help. All you do when you carry yourself like a dumbass is turn this forum into some BS social forum where you waist other's time such as myself and then complain that everyone is mean to you and that those of us that call you out are the ones with the problem. DUH, you need to have a check-up from the neck-up.

All you bleeding heart people that state everything has to be politically correct and we have to DUMB everything down to the lowest common denominator and cater to STUPID piss me off to no end. Sorry, I don't buy that bullsh*t and NEVER will so sell it to someone else that is less than intelligent like yourselves so as to belive that horse crap.

One of the major problems in this country is that people love to sit there and say, "Oh, you can't talk to that person like that, they may be less fortunate and you should be nice." I am all for people less fortunate but there are PLENTY on here that know better and come on indicating otherwise. So instead of dumbing it all down to the level of the least common denominator, let's take some accountability and call out the BS when we see it. By catering to the lowest common denominator, what you are doing is essentially a form of social control whereby you are placing everyone in the same boat and making us all equal. People are NOT all equal across different cultures, the same cultures, different races, same races.... etc. etc. etc., no matter HOW you flip it and no matter how politically incorrect that is to say. It is a DAMN FACT and FACTS are right there before you for you to see. It's like calling a Zebra a matter how much you might sit there and stare at a Zebra, it is NOT a horse, so don't call it one. We have a MAJOR accountability problem in this USA and part of the reason, I believe, is that all you soft hearted "let's be nice and skirt the issues" people dumb everything down. Instead, I call it out because I have god-given brains and no matter how you serve it up to me, I am not going to sit there and lower myself to someone else's inadequacies because I am too smart to do so. I am held to a high standard everyday in my job and life, how come all these other people seem to be able to get away with being stupid as sh*t and as accountable as the wind but yet still thrive? I know part of the answer; Some of you like to sit there and rub their backs and praise them for being the dumbest of dogsh*t on the face of the earth when they really have the potential to rise above it but dont...WHY? because they can't seem to find the incintivation to do so. Forget that crap, those people are WORTHLESS and you all KNOW it, you just hide from it.

posted by  cmeseadoin

...because society allows them to be stupid and still thrive all the while knowing they are bucking the system. (social security, workers comp, disability, WELFARE) ...all the things I, and the rest of educated America, pay for. this a political forum? Oh fits here.

posted by  BavarianWheels

Like I said, the facts are facts and I could NOT agree more with your pursuation. It DOES fit ini here because it all ties together with the "modus operandi" that these "stupid" people have and then you have the folks that sit there and perpetuate it. I think that perpetuating is worse because when you do that, you contribute to the breeding of these worthless POS's that suck off everyone's else. They only suck off everyone else because "we" as a society allow them to do so by stooping to their levels. HMMM, where is the problem then??? If you struggle with an answer to that question and can't see the truth, might I suggest you jump off the nearest bridge and rid the country of part of it's problems!!??

posted by  cmeseadoin

Dictionary - Thesaurus - Web

Get the Most Popular Sites for "incintivation"

No entry found for incintivation.

Did you mean insanitation?


u and DSMer should make a new dictionary :laughing:

oh, btw, it's WASTE, not WAIST :P :D :thumbs:

posted by  Inygknok

HMMM Inygknok, is that all the benifit you can add to this thread? You're going to call me out on the usage of the word incentive or incentivize because I accidentally sub'd in an "i" for an "e"???? LAUGHING MY ASS OFF: I am SO sorry to ruin your day for mis-spelling one or a few words out of about five paragraphs that I wrote. If you're trying to be funny based out of me calling out people using "wiv" for with and "mae" for mae, you need to keep thinking because the laughs on you inygingycockey. My "incintive" mis-spelling was not "ncentav" or "nsintiv" or some other derrivative of the "ebonics" language you more than probably are aquainted with, so therefore, I would rather prefer you to stick your head between your legs and suck hard, or maybe you ought to BLOW hard. You'd probably get further doing that than trying to show intelligence you obviously don't have based off the premise you tried to do it with. Gain some substance (and a clue) to yourself before you attempt to try and level others.

posted by  cmeseadoin

your forgetting cmeseadoin...

i still dont see that it gives you the right to insult people because they are "stupid" isnt that why they are in the forum in the first place??? since when did this forum had a "Must be smart to register" sign? obviously bav the "MODERATOR" is on cmeseadoin side...

posted by  Ki2AY

Excellent points, cmeseadoin.

People have this probelm with opinion here, in that they think sputing off any bullsh*t, and then saying it's "just their opinion" excuses them from being a dumbass, or having to listen to anything. Then whine that people are being mean to them. If you think I'm being mean to you, YOU DESERVED IT FOR BEING A DUMBA$$.

I won't get on ANYONE'S case until it becomes blatantly obvious that they are lying, or that they are not capable of learning even the most simple concepts. If you're leaving because you feel I've been mean to you, then you're leaving because you'd rather be an uninformed moron that spouts nonsense, and then can't produce facts to back it up, and whines about having their opinion censored.

Prove that you have the experience necessary to make the statments you do. Until then, if you make a retarded statement of opinion, and it can be proven that your opinion is mistaken (or at least based on mistaken information, or no information at all), then STFU.

Let me give you an example.

The statement, "I like Supras better than anything else" is an unarguable statement of opinion. People can ask why, but they can't say you are wrong.

If they ask why and you say, "I like Supras because they have twin turbo V8s, and do 200 mph in stock form" then you CAN be proven wrong. If you are proven wrong and you say, "I don't care, it's my opinion" then you will be treated like a dumbass. if you whine about being trated like a dumbass instead of learning where yo uwere wrong, and want to leave because people are mean to you, then don't let the door smack you on the a$$ on the way out.

Not knowing something isn't a crime, or even a bad thing. Acting as though not knowing is a guranteed right, and a preferred goal, OTOH, is going to get you treated like the moron you are.

posted by  ChrisV

LOL, "i still dont see that it gives you the right to insult people because they are "stupid" isnt that why they are in the forum in the first place??? " It gives me no more right to insult them than you to defend them. I love your one way logic.

Have you lost your marbles, or did you have any to begin with? They are stupid (or act like they are) and you are asking me "isn't that why they are in here" ????? LMAO......UM NO! They might be in here because they have a question or they have a need for some help or they may not know much about cars and these are PERFECTLY fine reasons....that is why they are in here sweet cheeks. Not because they are stupid. If I am wrong here, someone please tell me now, but I never saw the sign that said "if you're dumb as hell, c'mon in." :banghead:

posted by  cmeseadoin

I'm on the side that is against whining little boys that cannot handle when men are talking. When men talk, they generally listen and add to or correct. The men in the conversation take the correction and if need be, check it out and apply their new information accordingly. Men don't whine about being "yelled" at when they are in the wrong.

ChrisV:...I'm still of the opinion that I don't like certain cars merely out of dislike in the aesthetics. :laughing: :wink2: :thumbs: ...that and the makers have a bit to do with it also. But only out of biased personal opinion. :wink2:

posted by  BavarianWheels

You seem to be unable to tell the difference between someone coming in here looking for knowledge, and someone coming in here and refusing to LISTEN to knowledge, thinking that their misinformed opinions based on zero real experience are actually valid, supportable facts.

Lack of knowledge isn't being stupid, so coming in here because you have a lack of car knowledge doesn't make you stupid. Vigorously defending an indefensable position on the basis that is is your "opinion, " however, IS stupid, and will get called out.

And since you brought it up in another thread, I don't start arguments here. I only respond to arguments and dumba$$ statements here.

posted by  ChrisV

Ok im glad you said that, on the other thread that "beth" posted about the "check engine" light coming on, why did you have to be so hostile when all I said was that 2 of my friends have the same problem they just ignore it???????? I don’t think that was a good reason to be hostile to me, cause I was basicly asking whats the deal with it. As in, what does it mean? Specificly.. Look I needed help, understanding that matter, and what I got was hostility… can you explain that?

posted by  Ki2AY


But again, I showed why that alone is not an arguable point (i.e. i can't say that you do like those cars). Were you to say you don't like the car because it's your opinion that NO ONE thinks it attractive,, or becaeu it doesnt' have a feature of a car that you do like, even though it can be proven it does, there might be a point of fact to argue about. If you were to say you don't like it because it's your opinion that it's ugly, slow, and only comes in a 4 cyl version that breaks all the time, and the fact is that it comes in only 6 cyl version that is faster than a car you say is your favorite, and has an excellent history of reliability, then again there is cause to say your statements are wrong, even if they are opinion.

I think you see that.

Unfortunately, certain people here are unable to.

posted by  ChrisV

ChrisV, I LOVE IT! Thank you for having the brains and the common sense to understand the points I made. I totatlly agree with you as well. I am sick of these stupid SFB's (sh*t for brains) people that find it so much easier to turn the blame on those of us that are smarter that what seems like a ton of the population. I think honestly, and not trying to be arrogant, it is easier to dumb things down when you are stupid and low-intellect than it is to be dumbed down when you have brains. When you are lacking in the intelligence dept., you can sit there and just roll your eyes with a stupid grin and go "DUUUUUUH DUH DUUUUUUUUUUUH" all day long but when you have more than ten brain cells, you get highly pissed off dealing with a society that sits there and lowers everyone down to the same level and I can rest everyone assured, that level is less than average. I will NEVER feel like I should just sit there and take it because I am smarter and know better. It is the horse and zebra analogy I used earlier.

AMEN ChrisV, let's start a forum when you have to take an IQ test and score above 120 before your log-in is granted. I never have done well dealing with moron and stupid asses that take no accountability. I question this everyday but are people REALLY as stupid as the play themselves everyday or are they just taking the easy way out to have ZERO accountability? I think it is a combo of both, but that there are a ton of people that will just conform to whatever side they blend in with and that is BULLSH*T! Screw those people, you won't find me sucking up to them. I'll tell them where to go. AMEN ChrisV!!!!

posted by  cmeseadoin

Yes...I do.

I was playing on the subject of our first argument...that being about Corvettes and my opinion of them...I think. :thumbs:

posted by  BavarianWheels

The side you should be in is being more of a MODERATOR which means, your job is to keep the forums clean and organize (meaning taking care of hostile people under any situation). Bav, theres so many post out there that is very instulting, why don’t you ever edit those? It seems like you edit other stuff's that dosnt need to be edited and leave out the hostile post (which needs to be edited). And im sure the moderator's job is not against whining little boys who are not men. Since when did CF had an age policy? And I asure you, its more then being yelled it, its more of being hostile when someone is in need of help. We all know that. Don’t try to make it sound like its about little boys and grown up men.

posted by  Ki2AY

I don't want an intelligence test to log in. I don't mind helping people that don't know as much, and I want to correct misinformation flying about the net, rather than only talk to people who know as much as I already do. I only want accountability when you do log in, and not worship at the religion of opinion. *I* learn things here. There are always new things to learn.

I wouldn't go to a medical board and argue that it's my opinion that doctors are idiots because it's my "opinion" that lung cancer can be cured by rubbing grape jelly on my chest for a month. And if I were to go there and MAKE a mistaken statement like that, I certainly wouldn't whine that people that know more than I were calling me idiotic for arguing that statement.

If you come in here with an opinion that all American cars are POS, you are GOING to be told your an idiot for not knowing what your'e talking about. Your OPINION is based on hatred and lack of thought. If you come in here and say all Japanese cars or all german cars are POS, you'll get treated the same. Sometimes just an initial tone of voice is reason enough to get flamed, because at THIS point in being able to find automotve formums and read in English, you should have more sense than that klind of posting shows. There IS no "second chance" for that.

posted by  ChrisV

Lol! I know. :thumbs: And I think it was about GTO's or something like that.

posted by  ChrisV

WTF? Since when is "in need of help" expressed as "it's my opinion and I don't need to learn anything new." You whine about me being mean to you, and yet the ONLY times I've taken you to task is when you are acting like that, not when you ask real questions.

Don't act all innocent, my friend.

posted by  ChrisV

Chirsv im not even talkin about that case… the time you've been hostile to me was when I just said "american cars break down easily". Its what I believe so let it be, no need to argue about it, we talked about this already.. i was just offended by tha way you responded back.. i will believe your side, that american cars dont break down as easily as any other car such as japanese or europeans, but till there is no actuall proof that that is true, i will still believe that american cars break down easily then japanese and european., cause basicly, that’s not what I was looking for.. What I was talkin about when I was in need of help was when cmeseadoin made rude remaks to beth and then myself for saying "my friends have the same problem, but they just ignore it, what is the deal with the "engine check" light anyways?" as in, I wanted to know more about it specificly.. Im not trying to be innocent, cause im sure im not guilty, if you think being stupid is guilty, then I guess I am.. But that is a reason why im in here, to gain more knowledge, rather then being critisized at. Sorry if I mis-lead you, but my post wasn’t directly towards you. It was more to bav and cmeseadoin. Bav should have edited the insulting remarks to beth and i.

I may be the only one "whinning, complaining" or however you might call it, but im sure I speak for most of the members in here, I just happen to have the courage to take a beating from the "most hostile people in here".

posted by  Ki2AY

I was not implying anything about you with the fact that it was your FRIEND that said it. I was making it obvious that for your friend to just ignore the light was absolutely stupid. It shows that she not only has no sense of urgency that perhaps that light means something (common sense) as well as it shows that she is not intuitive enough to even give a damn. It is people like that who will do things like that and then post a message on here wondering why something bad happened to their car and want help with it. Then someone like myself has to waist my time helping someone who refuses to even help themselves.

Let me draw a parallel for a second.....I bet that if she was into flowers and her yard, if all of a sudden the grass started dying and the plants were turning white with some fungus, she might say to herself, GEE I think I need to either read up on this and educate myself as to whatever the hell is going on here, or call a lawn care specialist or horticulturalist to assess this, right? SAME thing. If you ignore it, that is the stupidest thing you could do.

Now the hostility towards you was aimed because you even bothered to tell us that statement. It shows you might be seeking advise from someone that obviously is less than on all 8 cylinders, thus lowering yourself to their level. If you pay any attention to that mess as you implied you might have, then you are obviously on the same wavelength as Mrs. IGNORE IT and it will go away.

You basically posted that posting for no real reason other than to ask what the deal was with that check engine light. Do you really think it was worth my time explaining all the reasons under the sun to you that the CEL might be on when you don't even know and had to ask what "raw fuel" was. Come on now!!

posted by  cmeseadoin

I remember a certain individual that not too far in the past was complaining about my I'm being asked to put my foot down more? I'm trying to let things go on for a bit to let people vent and get their thoughts off their chest and so to later move on and continue in the car chats and car help that this forum exists for. I have been called many things insulting and degrading to me. Just look at the thread with my dictatorship accusations...if I don't delete that...why should I delete the stuff where real idiots are being called out?

If someone is in need of help, simply don't post your help question like vax86 did that prompted you to restart all this, (in a child's voice) "So and so is calling me an idiot..." Learn the ways of chatting online. It is quite different than in person. You would've been simply ignored or someone may've even "yelled" in your face.

Regardless...the online community is different. If you cannot handle being called an "idiot" because you are writing (talking) like an idiot, then maybe the online forum community type interaction is just not for you.

Maybe we should call Ki2AY's mother and tell her, "Little Jay is really not ready for the adult world of ( we suggest ( instead."

posted by  BavarianWheels

Go back to that thread and read Beth G.'s comment on cmesedoin's comment on women and tell me she was insulted. Hardly.

Since when is it your job to decide when someone else is insulted and that they need "protection" from "us meanies."???

Go ask Beth G. if she needs your help protecting her delicate womanhood?

...and do you want me to further edit all the insulting remarks made of me from others...including you??

posted by  BavarianWheels

Ki2AY, if you "believe" that all american cars break down easily (which is a TOTAL BS statement NOT served up with ANY facts) and that you have a right to post that which is NOTHING more than your opinion....why in the HELL should BAV have to edit out "insulting" postings and words when it is YOUR opinion those are offensive? Those things you think are insulting are simply, perhaps, someone else's opinions. You need to wake up and realize this whole thing is a two-way street. You may post your opinions till the cows come home and I don't give a damn, but don't come in here making stupid statements that HAVE ZERO facts to back them and NOT expect to get flamed.

I also just LOVE how people throw out the "i'm insulted" BS. That is SUCH a load of crap, I can't remember the last time I was "insulted" or "offended" WHAAAA WHAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAAA, who CARES! Grow up and deal with it. "Oh, I'm so offended," we should just edit out every little thing cuz you might get offended I guess....would that make you happy to all you pansies that can't take any heat? Let's just dumb it down a little more why don't we. Hell, you're probably one of those left lane drivers as well to where when you are driving in the left lane and holding everyone up trying to pass because there is also someone to your just sit right there and cruise that left lane and just think it is your god given right to have no courtesy to others and move the hell over. "I'm doing the speed limit therefore you are a bad person trying to pass, so I am going to hold you up even though I don't have a badge and am not a police's my right." You certainly give off the attitude that you LOVE to dumb it down. I'm sorry you are offended when people have a clash of attitudes online or in person......but personally, I don't give a damn that you were "offended." Get some thicker skin and think about the reasons you might "feel offended." Maybe then you'll get it.

I may be the only one "whinning, complaining" or however you might call it, but im sure I speak for most of the members in here, I just happen to have the courage to take a beating from the "most hostile people in here".[/QUOTE]

posted by  cmeseadoin

Um what was this thread about again???? I got so lost reading the last 2 pages that were posted today that I can't remmeber what the subuect of the thread was

posted by  Voda48

I mean this in the most respectfull way, nobody ask you specifcly to help them. If you feel like you are wasting your time, then don’t post. If you feel they are being ignorant, then ignore them, if you have nothing but hostility to say, then don’t post. And yes, it is very generous of you to help people who comes to "you" who wonders what happen to their car after doing something "ignorant" such as ignoring the "check engine" light, but really tho', its your just going to be hostile and insult them for rubbin it in their face that they are stupid, might as well not post anything at all.

which messege?

If you are talkin about the messege where I said, "my friends have the same problem, but they just ignore the "check engine" light, whats with the light anyways?" I don’t blame ya, I shoulda been more specific, what I was really trying to say was, what does the light mean when it says "check engine" specificly?

Well then im sorry, but last time I check this forum purpose was to gain information, if you feel that was to "stupid" for you, then you shouldn’t have been hostile to me and posted, I would have gotten my answer from someone else anyways. But thank you for your being sucha' generous person anyways. (sarcastic)

posted by  Ki2AY

I'm responding to you in one place that covers ALL your posts ABOUT me in other threads, and hopefully poionts out my position here to OTHER members who are saying the same kinds of things you are.

here's the rub. You have even a mistaken notion of what you DID, and you think I attacked you out of the blue.

The fact is this, you SAID:"i think all american cars are crappy and falls apart"

First half of the description is an insult "all american cars are crappy." and then a supposed statment of fact, "and falls apart."

Your insult warranted a response in kind, and you got it. The mistaken statement of "fact" shows that you have no experience, and lacked rational thought, but you thought you were right enough to post it on an international forum where people who MIGHT know more than you could read it. That shows an arrogance about your opinion that is HUGE. And you think I attacked you out of the blue for no reason...

Lastly, you made that statement a few posts AFTER I posted this: "Actually, the Neon has been a successful SCCA racer and autocrosser for vast numbers of people. The very first ones had some reliability issues, but by the ned of the run of first gen cars, they were prety decent. I know a lot of SCCA members with ACRs and R/Ts that are completely reliable. the second gen Neons have been overall reliable, solid cars from the start."

Meaning not only did you present your nonfactual opinion in an arrogant manner, you completely ignored the statements of someone with a couple decades of experience, that had been posted 7 hours and two posts ahead of you! That made your statements come across as all the MORE arrogant, and all the more deserving of a more forceful response.

And you can't even SEE that. You think you were "attacked" for making a simple statement of opinion.

*I* was helping someone with facts, and not attacking anyone. You followed up MY helpful post with outright bullsh*t, ignoring and trying to contradict what *I* had posted, even though you yourself admit that you don't have much experience. THAT'S the kind of thing that torques off more experienced regular members like myself.

And yet you say we're being mean to you for no reason. Unbelievable.

posted by  ChrisV

I was waiting for, "Unbe-effing-leivable" myself. :laughing:

posted by  BavarianWheels

The only other thing I am gonig to add to this (because anymore of my time will not be predicated by this BS due to the fact that I have made my point and will not continue to argue it) is that I call out people because if you don't, then they will never get it. They'll continue down the path of being idiotically complacent. I never have abided by the "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything." rule. That was the mess that your first grade teacher taught you to start the dumb down effect. Oh, don't think for yourself and use your own brain, just accept the fact that you can't change anything and therefore, you should remain quiet and think like everyone else. It cracks me up how some people don't see that. But in any case, I have spoken how I feel on here and it won't be changing. I hope that does not "offend" you! :laughing: :orglaugh:

posted by  cmeseadoin

I believe someone was sending PM's arround about leaving leaving Voda48. The topic turned from leaving to, "lets bash on Ki2AY's dumbass comments". Nevertheless, this topic is just as important,if not more, as the original topic.

posted by  DSMer

If you are implying to the post I had posted under "bavs dictatorship" thread, if you would go check it one more time, you would see that, the only thing I had against you, was your attitude, insulting remarks in a sarcastic manner, and being to strict on the intro's and you removing so called "advertising" links. But I never did say anything about being a lil less strict on the hostility level in here, that’s something you have to be more of a MODERATOR IN rather than taking sides with people. You are acting like a regular member rather than a MODERATOR. And another thing about that "bavs dictatorship" thread, as you notice, when it got of a lil outta' hand, I did say, we are getting carried away and doing to much, we should tone it down and stop.. That was when you shoulda started editing post, and start doing you moderator job, cause that’s when it was the time to do so, when the thread has past its limits.. We wasn’t hostile towards you at the start, it was more about the forum if you take alook at it.. I posted stuff about what I didn’t like about the forum, such as links being remove, people being hostile as yourself, blah blah blah… but I asure you, I wasn’t being hostile like these people here.. Theres a difference from lettin out your chest in that thread to this. In that thread of yours (rise of bavs dictatorship) what I had posted up there is nothing like this thread. This thread is more hostile from what I had posted, this thread is more like "you have a stupid question, I will attack you". That’s what we are talkin about. Your thread "rise of bavs dictatorship" allot of people where hostile to you, but what I had posted there was more like, "I don’t like this and that in this forum" I didn’t call you stupid or blah blah blah, theres a difference… ("sorry this must be really confusing, but I just kept typing and typing what I had to in my mind, must be really dis-organized")

Bav, we talked about that manner already… again, maybe vax couldn’t type correctly or was very bad with english, or maybe he was typing like that on purpose.. But its still not a good reason for people to be hostile for him.. If he is typing that way, don’t post anything then.. Let him have zero replies on his thread. That’s should tell him not to type that way, he deserves it. But its still not a good reason to be hostile to him, what I was saying was, people could just tell him to type correctly in a respectfull manner, bav, that is your job, (crying to you, whinning to you, call it whatever you want) but I was really pointing out to you what you should have done. BAV YOU ARE MODERATOR, YOU SHOULD SET A GOOD EXAMPLE TO US ALL. Come on now, I don’t know any other way to explain it, THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO BE HOSTILE TO ANYBODY UNLESS THEY ARE HOSTILE TOWARDS YOU. Even so, I still think that wouldn’t solve anything. Come on bav.

True the online community is different obviously, but again, its your job to not make it different and make it more like the "reality community" that’s why they have MODERATORS. Why don’t you tell me, what is the purpose of a moderator in your head?

Look, mr. moderator, thx allot.. Your really showing your MODERATOR side by insulting me about my mother, lets not go there, and FYI my mother died when I was 3. I really wish the moderators or UNFEDFAT can see this…...

posted by  Ki2AY

Actually, it's still appropriate to the original topic, which is who wants to leave, and why.

The later part of the thread deals specifically with "why." I.e. "we want to leave because some people are being mean to us, because we don't know much, and only want help. Even though we'll make statements that we think are facts and argue about them with people that DO know more than us, we're not to blame. THEY are! Waaaahhhh."

posted by  ChrisV

as i replied, i made remakrs on rise of bavs dictatorship, but it was more of my opions about the forum, and again once i saw it was gettin a lil out of hand, i did mentioned to every we should stop, we are doing to much. i only posted there to let everyone know what i disliked about the forum such ass intros links and about your attitude, and i did say it in a respectfull manner when i said, that you have attitude... i didnt say it like "YOUR A STUPID ASS BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH..." i said it in a calm manner, again, its very different from what i am talkin about.

and about beth, yes she didnt get offened, i never said she did, all i wanted to point out (again) was what cmeseadoin had first posted, and to let u know, that some people will take that seriously and not let it slip... thats why i said "ITS A GREAT SAMPLE OF WHAT THE FORUM HAS BECOME" meaning, its one of the issues we have in this forum... catch my drift??????????

posted by  Ki2AY

Chrisv, with all do respect, I did tell you before that I think of you as one of the smartest people in here, so do many members.. But we talked about this, its very different... untill someone can test 100 american cars 100 japanese cars and 100 european cars whitin a range model of 60's-00's and prove to me that american cars do not break down easily then I will believe you, but right now.. There is no proof that any of our statement is true or false… and I did say sorry for saying that "american cars break down easily" even tho' I didn’t mean to offend anybody. We already went over this.. And again, I can say the same about you, " but don't come in here making stupid statements that HAVE ZERO facts " you have zero facts that you believe american cars do not break down easily.. And I don’t care if you believe that or not, but I believe they do break down easily.. So shouldn’t u be careless? And about me offending people by my post? Again, like I have mention a million times, what you have against me chirsv is me saying that american cars break down easily.. You say that is offensive? Well theres a difference when someone talks about my mother, or when some calls me a stupid ass when all I wanted to know was what does the "check engine" light means specificly.. Come on chrisv, your smart.. Im sure you can see the difference, not once have I said anything like that. Those kinda post, should be edited.. HUGE DIFFERENCE. (I geuss im talkin to the wrong people, you guys are the only people that makes hostile, insulting post).

All I am trying to do is show the "MODERATOR" what he should be doing and since a whole shit load of memebrs arent really happy, even cliffy a moderator himself. As you notice, ive been taking a beating for an hour now from you three.. Do you see me being hostile towards you guys? No.. Obviously, I am not hurt by your remarks, I am simply trying to let people hear my words out on what I think about this forum and explain its problems.. But I geuss its all a waste since the moderator in here isnt actually a moderator as I thought he would be… I really thought I could help make this place better by pointing out stuff to our moderator so he can proove whoever started "rise of bavs dictatorship" wrong. Instead I get more hostile remarks when all I am doing is trying to help.. Not to mention a nasty remark about my mother from the moderator him self.. That was a surprise.. I guess you guys could have it however you want, I wont complain anymore… see how this forum turns out wid all the nice guys gone.

Fyi Speaking of courtesy, that is my main point.. People should have some courtesy in here….

I may be the only one "whinning, complaining" or however you might call it, but im sure I speak for most of the members in here, I just happen to have the courage to take a beating from the "most hostile people in here".[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

posted by  Ki2AY

Yeah, I think we might catch your drift but I also think it is obvious that we see it differently and it does not upset us that this individual might be upset and not let it slide. I am not too concerned, if you can't take the heat, get your ass the hell out the kitchen. Don't piss and moan about it all the time. Suck it up and if you don't like the help here, piss off. I don't lower myself to give others a warm fuzzy.

posted by  cmeseadoin

Holy shit. I did'nt catch that statment the first time through. Thats a very bold statement you made there. Lets see, cmeseadoin... has arround 460 something post. Of wich about 350 are ALL very well thought out replys that gave knowledge and advice to people with car related troubles, and how you dare even tell him to not post at all beyond blows my mind. I've had my stupid moments, but I would never dare overstep my boundaries on that subject. He has more weight under his belt than you can even fathom... Even I know that, and you've been here longer than me. Simialar with ChrisV. He probably has forgotten more than you've ever learned, yet you still defy him and not listen to his many years of knowledge.

For god sakes you're getting bashed by Bav! I think this is the first time I've ever seen BavarianWheels even comment about someones "stupidity". If you've pushed that far as to get Bav going, then chances are its not them that are at fault. You seem to be "taking a beating" for people whom are'nt even standing up with you. Please, let me be wrong, but I don't see not one person agreeing with your actions nor agreeing that you are speaking for people here. When you say you speak for people here at CF, whom are you speaking for? I would sure as hell like to know. This fight is futile Ki2AY. Give it up, Bav is right. Real men don't piss and moan about life they take it as its delt to him. You can either accept it as it is and move on, or stay still and keep b*tching about people being mean to you.

posted by  DSMer

JD Powers already does this in owner surveys. CR does this also. proof is right there, but you don't want to hear it.

??? I OWN them, you moron! The FACT that MY many American cars do not break down IS IN FACT PROOF that they do not ALL break down easily. Are you just DENSE? ALL I HAVE TO DO IS PROVE THAT YOUR SATEMENT THAT THEY ALL BREAK DOWN EASILY IS FALSE, AND I CAN DO THAT SIMPLY BY SHOWING THAT MINE DO NOT BREAK DOWN!

This is why we get pissed at people like you. Your logic is retarded!!!! I don't care HOW insulted you are iat this point! You refuse to learn and that makes you STUPID, not just unknowledgeable!!!!

When I post that I know MANY racers and people over the last 25+ years of driving that have no problems with them, then THAT'S F*CKING PROOF THAT THEY DON"T ALL BREAK! if you choose to ignore/argue with my direct experience over 25+ years, even after saying that you DON'Thave the experience, and that you KNOW I know more about cars than you, then you're being an idiot!

posted by  ChrisV

I LOVE IT,,,,hahaah...I was going to drop this issue till I read this. LORD, this just further backs us up, thanks DSmer!!! :oD :thumbs: I have been thinking that all day, but I am certainly glad to see that some of the regulars are coming in and interpreting it for themselves. HMMMM, Ki2AY, seems as if you are blowing hot air now..... :laughing: :laughing: :orglaugh: I only start a flame war where I feel one is warranted. :2cents:

posted by  cmeseadoin

In a word...No. I don't catch your drift. Again...why do you seem to think Beth G. needs your protection. If anything, take your own advice and say nothing...and all this **spreads arms and looks at this thread...among others** would be avoided.

I'm sorry about your mother passing away! I never meant any disrespect towards her, but only mentioned as your parent/guardian. It was a comment directed to you and you only. Had nothing to do of your mother's intelligence.

I ask you, Ki2AY, what would you think if everytime someone said something derogatory about me, I edited it out? Or if I had closed and/or deleted the Rise of Bav's Dictatorship thread? Would that not be kin to being a dictator? Let's give this some thought. If I was to moderate as you seem to think is the job of moderating--that being editing out derogatory remarks, name calling, hurtful statements, words,...and the like--I would have to sit and almost edit every single post on this forum.

The fact is and your "friends" from the Rise of Bav's Dictatorship thread, wanted to be able to cuss and conduct yourselves as you see are calling, "Where's the Police?"

Get a grip. Get together with the rest of the boys and decide which way you want it. Freedom (Anarchy) or Freedom (Monarchy style) or Freedom (Democracy)...the latter of which you cannot have when the forum is owned by one person and not the community.

I'm here to have fun in chatting, razzing, and learning. I'm also here to moderate (of which I am the only one active in the past weeks) and uphold the wishes of the admin. Certainly keeping arguments minimal is part of that...but there is a place and time for differences of opinions. Again, if you have a difference of opinion and need to voice it, it is allowed. I'm "allowing" this opinion, because firstly, you are a regular part of this forum. Secondly, if I stifle it too much or too soon, the opinion of "dictatorship" becomes substanciated.

This seems to be a good difference here...and needs some hashing out so long as it remains controlled and not an all out war of words and name calling.

posted by  BavarianWheels

As I said millions of times Chriv, what make you think that your fact that american cars do not fall apart is true? You have no experience your self… you may have been working with cars for 25 years.. But im sure you havnt test 1000 american, japanese, and eurpean cars and see which of those 3 would break down more.. You have no proof and I don’t either, so don’t mind what I had to say, becuz im not complaining about you saying, american cars do not break down easily… ive actually seen more people say american cars are crappy then people saying american cars are not crappy.. Actually you’re the first one. And no, I never thought I was right.. LOOK AGAIN, I SAID "I THINK…." THINK THINK THINK!... Let me think what I want to.. You don’t have to tell me what not to think.. That’s where the problem is, I felt you was telling me what to think like you’re my father or something. And yes it may have offended people, but they ignored me something you shoulda done, I see people saying honda sucks, that offends me, but I know better to just keep my mouth shut rather than to start a brawl…. Look don’t say "you thought I was attacking you out of the blue", your first post to me, when I said "american cars are crappy and falls apart" wasn’t so nice.

What my mistake was I should have said "Most american cars break down easily" I do believe the neon is a great car… and yes you may have experience in whatever job you have, but again…. UNTILL YOU CAN TEST A THOUSAND AMERICAN,JAPANESE,AND EUROPEAN cars and show me that more of the japanese and european cars breaks down, then ill believe that american cars are so crappy after all.. But till then, I would have to believe that most american cars are crappy… im sorry. Its what I think.

You were helping people with facts, again.. You are a smart person… but sometimes you do attack people without even realizing it.. Every thinks the same, when people mention top 3 argument start, you would come in…. But don’t tell me that you wasn’t attacking anybody that time, you clearly attacked me.. Just go back to the first post you had post after I had said "american cars break down easily". Quote it for me.

Again, it don’t matter if you have 7 years blah blah experience on cars. It still dosnt proove that american cars do not break down easily.. Unless you have tested all the american cars in the world to japanese and european..

I could say, I believe that the universe has X amout of stars because I have been studying stars for 7 years…. You may have 7 years for experience at your job, but im very sure you havnt compared all the american japanese and european cars in the whole world….

posted by  Ki2AY

Sorry, it's already got to that point. He IS an idiot, and he won't even see why. I tried to explain it in clear language, but he went too far.

posted by  ChrisV

Ki2AY, here you are preaching morality and how we should all end the hostility and then you make the absolute most STUPID statement someone could make as seen above and wonder why you are digging yourself deeper.

Let me first start with your verbage. "American cars break down easier." What in the hell does this mean? Does this imply that if I slam the door harder than a softer shut, it might not start. Does this mean that the car "finds" it easier to just break down? Does this reference that the natural tendency of the vehicle's integrity to gravitate towards a highly entropic state is elevated? I mean, just what the F*ck are you trying to say here? I think what you NEED to do is get your verbage straight before you bring something up, then we'll discuss facts. I already see you have none to offer up other than this opinion that you seem to have.

Your opinion is fine to offer up, but opinions are technically based on some fact(s) that have persuaded you to think like you do and makes rational sence. You can't prove anything you have said with any facts where ChrisV is offering up true and documented information. You have not made much sense all day, so I guess I am fighting a fire here with gasoline.

Perhaps what you might be meaning is that the "frequency of repair could perhaps be higher with american vs. import cars." I am not sure myself that thsi is a fact, but I think it would be a MUCH more realistic statement to start off with rather than "America cars break easier." From that kind of verbage, it is REALLLLLLY clear to me you are a car moron. Why don't you stick to chat forum rooms where you actually know about something you chose to speak about. All you've successfully done is "open mouth and inserted foot" here. We've all told you but you continue to ramble on. I guess it bothers you that you now look like the dumbass you've proven yourself to be.

posted by  cmeseadoin

"Idiot" my quite acceptable IN CONTEXT! (now watch the young'ins, reading this, think it's all of a sudden ok to call everyone an idiot not understanding what "in context" means. Please don't make me explain!

I meant more of starting to cuss each other out...which means the discussion/argument has just crossed over to what would amount to a physical fight were it face to face.

posted by  BavarianWheels

Your logic is faulty. You're a retard, and you deserve no more intelligent discussion.

There is TON'S of proof, I've given it to you. The fact that you refuse to aknowledege it, even though yo uKNOW you don't know much about cars proves that you have less intelligence than the average rock. Shut up, and go the fu(k away.

Don't you know that you are pathetic? You worthless bag of filth. As they say in Texas, I'll bet you couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you. You are a bloody nardless newbie twit protohominid chromosomally aberrant caricature of a coprophagic cloacal parasitic pond scum and I wish you would go away.

You're a putrescence mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a bleating fool, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done.

If you aren't an idiot, you made a world-class effort at simulating one. Try to edit your writing of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly.

And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake? You are a waste of flesh. On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in all that lends character.

I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me.

posted by  ChrisV

AND YOU HAVE, Ki2AY????? ChrisV is in the "know" and is more informed with facts than you, but I am just so sure you know more, right? That's a funny thought.....I call that the pot calling the kettle black. Sell it to someone who will buy it. Ki2AY.....why don't you log yourself right on over to the Repairs and Maint. section and get started with helping people with their problems. Once you have as many technically correct postings as some of the rest of us more knowledgable people and we are able to see that you know what you are doing and that you are offering up really good advice, maybe then you'll earn some respect. If you continue to try blowing smoke our asses with non-factual BS, then you'll just isolate yourself and completely trash your if you have not already!

posted by  cmeseadoin

I think that one broke the camel's back... :laughing:

I do think we are done here.

posted by  BavarianWheels

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