starter reversed rotation

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hello, i have a 1985 cadillac elderado and just rebuilt the transmission (325-4L) when i hooked the starter back up i found that the starter motor is rotating the wrong direction, is there any fix to this problem i would appreciate any help possible.
thank you

posted by  supafly205

Sounds like you have the ground and power wire mixed up.

posted by  88GrandPrixSE

i have the main power from the positve terminal to the starter motor terminal the ignition power to the s on the selonoid and the starter -12 is just gorounded to the transmisionwhen bolted on
it just goes the wrong way

posted by  supafly205

so before the tranny was rebuilt your starter was fine you didn't take the starter apart and now it spin's backwards????

posted by  osborste

yes the starter was fine before i rebuilt the transmision and it wasnt touched until i put the transmision back in and installed the starter

posted by  supafly205

Now now boys, you've been suckered in because...



If the battery cables are properly attached the motor will only spin the right direction and besides, the starter turning the wrong way would be the least of his problems. More to the point, if the starter motor is turning the wrong way the starter drive would never engage... The bendix would pull the drive gear back into the housing.

My bet is that he's installed a different starter that looks the same but has a different direction of rotation.

posted by  vwhobo

thats what i couldn't figure out if he used the same starter :laughing:

posted by  osborste

the starter worked before. the selenoid works fine it will engage the starter gear. but the starter motor is turning in reverse. there for if the starter is installed it will attemped to turn the engin counterclockwise (the wrong direction) and the starter gear is not desined to catch the fly wheel in that direction anyways, it will just tear up my flywheel. THE STARTER MOTOR IS TURNING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. i also checked it outside of the car to verify that with another car battery

posted by  supafly205

Okay, let's try it again. If the starter is turning the wrong way, the starter drive with kick out initially (solenoid driven movement) and will immediately retract when it tries to crank the engine.

BTW, if you are so sure that you know so much, why are you asking questions here?

posted by  vwhobo

same starter

posted by  supafly205

i dont know how to rebuild a starter or if this problem is fixible, i was hoping someone may have had experience with this problem, and i aprettiate your help, thank you

posted by  supafly205

nut i am sure the starter motor is turning the wrong direction

posted by  supafly205

ok i'll bite again you didn't say what engine i think its a 4.1 L the starter mounts on the passanger side of the motor and should spin clockwise

posted by  osborste

Last shot as some of us have to go to work in the AM. The starter motor is a simple, basic DC motor. If you have the battery cables connected correctly it can only turn one way. That is all. You are either wrong about the starter rotation or wrong about the cable hook-up. Either way you are wrong.

I personally have trouble believing that someone is able to rebuild a transaxle and then is stumped by this "problem". Maybe it's time to put down the beer.

posted by  vwhobo

You are aware that the starter pinion turns opposite to the flywheel/flexplate?

Swapping +ve and -ve won't change direction, but I suspect the positive clamped to chassis ground would be interesting. :laughing:

posted by  Wally

i wish you knew what you were talking about , but the starter can only be hooked up in one way, since the only ground provided comes from bolting the transmission on the constant power connects to the only available large terminal on the selenoid wich provides the power to the starter motor at the other large post when the selenoid gets power and pushes the metal disk to connect both of those posts. the only other conection is the ignition wire wich activates the selenoidwhich not only connects the power for the motor but also pushes the starter gear to the flywheel , but some how the polarity of the motor , mabe the magnets is reversed, the only thing i can come up with

posted by  supafly205

Unless electricity is different in Australia then the rest of the world, reversing polarity would most certainly make the motor rotate backwards... But that's not likely his problem.

posted by  vwhobo

yes i tried that and it made no difference in the rotation ??

posted by  supafly205

thats right 4.1L passangerside but if your facing the front of the car the startermotor is turning counterclockwise

posted by  supafly205

Ok lets assume you have a RWD and you are standing in front of the car. For the engine to rotate clockwise the starter needs to rotate counter clockwise. Is this what's happening?

posted by  Wally

so looking at the back cover the starter spins counter then looking at the gear would spin clock sound right to me

posted by  osborste

Umm unless you reverse the either the armature or shunt/series windings in a wound DC motor the field relationship remains the same and rotation remains the same?

posted by  Wally

it is frontwheel drive not that it makes a difference here since the transmission is 325-4L the engine is in straight not sideways. the engine must turn clockwise, wich if i was standing infront of the car then it is counterclockwise
but the starter motor is turning counterclockwise

posted by  supafly205

how ever you decide to look at it it is turning in the direction that would make the engine turn counterclockwise

posted by  supafly205

intresting . i know it didnt turn in that direction before , do you think it is fixable?

posted by  supafly205

or where i could find information on that

posted by  supafly205

OH boy, now I'm getting confused.

Standing in fornt of the car the engine is supposed to turn counterclockwise? This is very unusual to me.

I assume the starter motor comes from behind the motor? So if you were still standing at the front of the car and imagining looking at the pinion on the starter motor is it turning opposite to the engine? If you say no you are telling fibs, because when there are only two meshed gears one turns counter to the other.

posted by  Wally

I used to make a fair quid from rewinding starter motors and alternators in my youth and I can tell you that unless you have opened up the starter motor and resoldered connections, the motor will not have decided to reverse it's action, even with lack of residual magnetism.

I think you should check to see what direction the engine should crank in It is normally clockwise as you look at the pulley end.

posted by  Wally

the enginge should be turning counterclockwise standing infront of it, so should the flywheel the starter motor and selenoid casing is towards you the front of the engine , the starter gear housing is at the back, the gear turns counterclockwise wich would turn the flywheel and engine clockwise if your infront of it looking at it

posted by  supafly205

Well that's an interesting engine and I assume the pulley bolts are all left hand thread as a result?

I still maintain the engine should rotate clockwise and looking at the back of the starter it should be rotating counterclockwise.

Do this: put the car in first gear, take handbrake off and go to the front of the car. Pull the car towards you and note the engine rotation tendancy. Is it counter or not? Because whichever way it wants to go is the direction it should be.

posted by  Wally

if im sitting in the drivers seat of the car theengine should be turning clockwise also the fly wheel and the radiator fan the fan must rotate that direction in order to blow air at the radiatorotherwise it would be pulling it, still sitting in the drivers seat the starter is on the passangerside with the starter gear end pointing to the rear of the carand all the connecters at the other end towards the front of the car the starter motor tuning clockwise from this point the proper flywheel rotation being from top --> but the starter is turning -->from top the starter should be turning counterclockwise <-- in order to turn the engine clockwise but starter is turning clockwise -->

posted by  supafly205

the fan is suppose to draw air through the rad and across the engine i hope the fan's rotation is not what is making you think the starter is going in reverse

posted by  osborste

no the rotation that the starter is making now would turn the engine counterclockwise

posted by  supafly205

thanks everyone

posted by  supafly205

You know it sounds like a very expensive engine/car combo, what with special torque convertors, special starter motors, special gearboxes.

posted by  Wally

Time for my input.

I think the problem may be one of the following:

A) You're full of crap.
B) You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
C) All of the above.

posted by  DodgeRida67

like wtf Did you just realize how bad you ****ed up, or how ignorant and ininformed you are, you didn't do any research and just guessed the fan was supposed to blow air at the rad? am i getting close, and because you forgot to hook stuff up when you put the tranni back in and it wouldn't run you figured the starter was turning the wrong way, leave it to the pro's next time thats why you pay them money cuz some of them know what they are doing.

posted by  BanffAutoSpa_ap

Maybe he sobered up. Maybe he realized everything was O.K.

posted by  DodgeRida67

how many wires go to the starter

posted by  Bobby27

Are you another one of these members who knows everything and is so eager to show it you only read the first post before posting? Damnit. :banghead:

posted by  DodgeRida67

I would like to stand officially corrected. I didn't mean for it to take so long but sometimes life gets in the way. Wally is absolutely right both from an engineering standpoint and from a real life standpoint.

We had some time to kill today and no matter how many times we tried running a starter with reversed polarity it still rotated the proper direction. Mea culpa maxima.

posted by  vwhobo

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