can some one help

Home  \  Repairs & Maintenance  \  can some one help

imy was running really great then i didnt start up one moring and it was making a cliking noise everyone told me it was the starter but i did think it was the starter but i pulled it anyways and had it tested but it passed then as i was putting it in and i hooked the battery back the car started up with no key or anything so i unhooked the battery and did it again it stared upagain then it died and now it doesnt start up anymore

posted by  deadman08

With that spectacular bit of information... NO!

posted by  vwhobo

Sounds like an electrical problem, possibly in the ignition switch...try bypassing the selenoid (use a remote switch and make sure that you have power to the selenoid using a voltmeter. That should help diagnose the problem,

posted by  vwnut

How can you give any advice with the dearth of information provided. It "sounds like an electrical problem". What great advice, I thought the starting system was hydrogen powered. How is he going to "bypass the selenoid", somtimes known as a solenoid? MOST cars have the solenoid and starter motor conbined as a unit.

Your help while well intended is not help. It will only add to his confusion.

posted by  vwhobo

well i really need to fix this car so can u tell me what more information u need

posted by  deadman08

Hi deadman... That guy bickering at you; also trying to make you feel like a jerk isn't contributing to solve your problem... Besides dumping on you, he's also dumping on the other nice guy trying to help you!!!... The WORST THING A TEACHER CAN DO IS DUMP ON SOMEONE WITH A QUESTION !!!... Sorry about my tone, but nasty sarcasm doesn't help with problems... calm intelligence does...

FIRST... YOU'RE NOT A JERK... YOUR A NICE GUY ASKING FOR HELP AND YOU DON'T NEED SOMEONE JERKING YOUR CHAIN... I WONDER WHY HE 'S NOT SPECIFICALLY ASKING FOR THE INFO HE'S ACCUSING YOU FOR NOT GIVING... 'CAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER ... THAT'S WHY...

SECONDLY... NEITHER DO I !!!... THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE SOLUTION WILL NOT COME FROM GUESSING... The problem could be the neutral start switch / ignition switch / solenoid / starter itself / or loss of wiring continuity / ... Guessing won't find it... NEED INFO OBTAINED BY VALID TESTING... OK... ENOUGH GIBBERISH... YOU NEED YOUR CAR FIXED... HERE'S WHAT TO DO...

1.)Any ECM codes ???... IF YOU REALLY CAN'T EASILY ACCOMPLISH THIS STEP WHICH CAN SAVE A LOT OF TIME... START WITH STEP 2.)... Depending on how new your car is... HAVE THE ECM CHCKED FOR CODES.. As far back as 1992, I had a GM car (Vette) where the ECM analized more than just the engine... every circuit in the car was covered including lighting, audio, etc., etc., ... There may be a trouble code in your ECM exactly identifying the problem... Many makes have a way of flashing codes in the dash without a spendy reader... for example some manuals show how to short out 2 terminals in the reader connector and one of the dash lites flashes the same number of times as the code... then you look up the meaning of the code in the manual...

2.) Check ALL fuses and CIRCUIT BREAKERS...

3.) NEUTRAL START SWITCH - I don't know make, year & model of your car... nor type of transmission, but MAKE SURE if it has a starter lockout SWITCH controled by either the neutral gate or depressing the clutch pedal... that the trans is in "N" or "P" and or the clutch pedal is to the floor.

4.) If no crank after shifter and/or clutch is in START position, find whatever LOCATION OFswitch it is, and wire-jump accross it just to make sure the gap is closed and that switch isn't bad... If cranks, replace the switch... If no crank, go to #5.) below... after you put up with the little story...

{TRUE STORY... I once boarded the yacht of a major truck fleet VP of Maint. with his head in the bilge... He had spent the morning checking his ignition circuits continuity to see why his port engine starter wouldn't crank... I instantly noticed his shift handle at the lower helm was pushed forward (in gear position)... Without him seeing me I eased it back to neutral, walked over to the hatch where he was bent into the engine... wiggled my fingers over the iron uttering some magic "#*&@!^*"!!!... Then I said "Stand Clear Gary !"... pushed the starter switch instantly firing the engine... WOW!!!... What a hero I was!!!... You can guess how much fun I've had with ole' VP Gary since then.... He's bought only my company's fleet engines since to keep me quiet... OK...no more gibberish... back to the subject of fixing...

5.) If #1, 2, 3, 4,) is OK... once again remove the STARTER AND SOLENOID assembly AND the ignition switch and WITH THE KEY bring them to a good shop for bench testing... Even tho' the starter / solenoid passed before, because it worked and then quit... check it again... The shop wii also tsat the ignition switch in all positions...

I would really think by this time your defect would be discovered... If not my last step ...

6.) WIRING CONTINUITY... With a multimeter check...
A.) All low amp wires between ignition switch, neutral start switch, solenoid... verify the current source wire to the ignition switch is hot...
B.) Verify high amp wire from battery to starter is hot...

That's it... The problem is in the procedure above...If by fluke not yet found ... go thru all the above on site with another knowlegeable person... and determine what was missed... two heads are better than one...

By all means if I missed something let me know... I'll never stop learning...

....Ted
(32 combined years with General Motors, Daimler-Chrysler and R. Penske)

posted by  Doctor Diesel

I guess if the bendix is jammed and the pinion is permanently meshed into the ring gear, the starter motor would fire up every time he connects the battery?

"Click, click" = commonly low battery charge or bad cable connection.

deadman08 did you check the battery condition prior? This is really simple (although not infallible) to test if you don't have a meter; turn headlights on and listen for the click when you try to start. If there is no click your battery is more than likely knackered. You may have managed to drain the battery pretty low now.

posted by  Wally

Not Most cars have the sOlenoid and starter combined, most NEWER cars. As I said in my intro, my experience is with older vehicles, and not obd I or II. As for stating an electrical problem, if you read his thread, he was trying to replace mechanical parts intead of tracking down a logical electrical sequence.(Im an electrician and engineer by trade and ALL electrical follows the same basic principles of flow and funtion). I was mearly redirecting him to a more productive path. AND vwhobo....as for my mechanical aptitude with OLDER engines, my 71 super, 1600 cc, dual weber 44 (rejetted), pertronics ingnited, 1.5" matched exhaust, single quiet pack, 1.25 ratio rockers, with stock cam tops out at slightly higher than 120mph at 6000 rpm's (with bolt up rocker shafts to keep em from slipping around, of course)
Thats with a stock DP displacement...so Bite Me.( see the 2004 Arizona Bug-O-Rama 2nd place finisher, sportsmans class)
Besides..isnt this a help forum, not just a place for people to piss on each other? If you know so damn much about his problem...fix it!

posted by  vwnut

1. I challenge you to name any cars built in the last 40+ years that the starter motor and solenoid weren't a combined unit with the exception of FoMoCo products. Go ahead and try.

2. In a word, BULLSHIT. A 1600 DP won't do it with a stock cam and 1.5" exhaust. You can't get enough air through the engine. Besides you have a really poor memory. According to another one of your posts you have a '70 Super Beetle with a 1914. Which is it? Get your story straight Twinkie.



http://www.car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?p=79368#post79368

posted by  vwhobo

Since you insist on makeing every thread your own personal pissing match as you try to convince the world of your superiority, A 1600 will do it, dumb ass..hell, the old 1200's with a Judson on the 28 PICT carb would push 90. your showing your ignorance in every mouth full! lol Must be nice to believe in your own self rightousness so strongly! And you are right :thumbs: ..I miss typed the year earlier, surprised that you didnt catch that with all of your profound wisdom! The super didnt come out untill 71. And its same car, different motor..I pulled it to replace the pancake motor in my 67 fastback (also the first year for those) but stripped it to use the fastbacks original fuel injection. I also have a 68 standard bug with an 1800 running a weber 32/36 dfev..just in case i mention it in the future so you dont get confused. And the Bug-O-Rama posts its results, as does Hot VW's, and VW Trends..try checking facts before spewing forth your own lovely brand venom.
As for starter and solenoid being a combined unit, what do you consider a combined unit..some have the solenoid incorporated within the starter, but most have it piggybacked on the outside of the case with the terminals easily accessed and jumped...like in my neighbors Pontiac, my brother in laws Buick, my old GMC Jimmy...all newer than 40 years and none MoFoCo.
Im actually more interested in learning more about fixing the problems than learning what makes you the mechanical superior of everyone else on the web, so have yourself a great day.And, uh, dont bother yourself with replying..I doubt that I shall find any insight within your sarcastic, self gratifying dialogs, so I doubt that I will be reading anything with the VWhobo signature. (Twinkie) LOL:mrgreen:

posted by  vwnut

I don't really have the time or volition to waste on an idiot, so I'll just hit the high points.



Well, no. The Super Beetle went into production in late 1969 (I think November) as a '70 model. It wasn't released in North America until late '70 as a '71 model. I have owned three '70 SB's while living in Europe.


Well it seems you can describe something that is a combined unit, you just can't identify it. The more you argue the point the more you prove you're wrong. Just look at your own posts Monkey Boy.



Sorry Boopsie. You're being VERY evasive so I'll have to go from both ends. To push a Super Beetle to 120 MPH you would have to be producing very near 100 HP at the crank. The engine you describe WILL NOT make that kind of power. To do a 120 trap speed in the 1/4 mile you would have to be putting out over 150 HP at the crank. Once again your engine won't do it.

Now, you can use your imagination all you want but this is a fact. I have been building and racing ACVW's for over 30 years. The only way your car will go 120 MPH as described is to drive it off a cliff. It'd be a shame to lose another Bug but it might be worth it if you were inside.

posted by  vwhobo

Your Message