JAmmed spark plug

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i have an 89 civic hb and i was going to change my spak plugs and ran into a huge problem. in chamber 3 the spark plug was jammed and i put excessive amounts of force only to end up having the spark plug break off. the weird thing is the whole spark plug came out except for the threads. any suggestions on how to get it out? this is my everyday car so i need help so i can get the car running again ASAP
-Thx

posted by  C c C

Oh dear, you might be lucky, but usually this will involve taking the Cylinder Head off and using a 'Tap & Die' set to remove the plug. Given that this is a Japanese engine, I think that's more than likely gonna be the case....Use some WD-40 next time! :thumbs:

Oh, and I'll move this :banghead:

posted by  Cliffy

ugh i was hoping i wouldnt have to do that, is there any way to get around that.. like anything long enough yet tough enough to get it out without taking the cylinder head off?

posted by  C c C

judging from the ugh! i guess you have the head that the plug go straight down throught the valve cover you might remove the valve cover and be able to get closer to the plug hole you said the threaded part of the plug is still in there so you maybe able to use an ez-out(most parts store's sell these just get the right size to fit inside the plugs threaded piece you also may want to soak the threads with a good penetrating oil or use some heat to warm up the threaded piece then use the ez-out if this dont work then its removeing the head for a heli-coil repair you could do this with it on but all the metal shaveings will go into the cylinder and you can't remove this(risk damage to cylinder/rings)

posted by  osborste

I took off the valve cover and it did not get me any closer.. only like 1/4 in. its a deep hole and the threads are pretty far down.. is an ez-out long enough?

posted by  C c C

also the threads are so tight they are like welded on it seems...took every last bit of strength to break the plug out thats why it seems almost impossible to get the threads out

posted by  C c C

the last time i seen this type of problem was an 87 grand am 3.0L the center plug broke at the threads because the cat plugged up overheated the manifolds and back cylinder head to get it out we pulled the motor as there was no room to work on it
with the ez-out you might have someone weld a nut on the end and be able to use a socket and extension to reach down as the ez-out is about 3-5 inches in lenght
if this doesn't work it pulling the head drill it out and use a heli-coil repair kit

posted by  osborste

Damn thats a pretty good idea.. :clap: ill try that. have any other suggestions in case that fails?

posted by  C c C

you can actually buy ez-outs for spark plugs that have a 3/4 hex on the end... and if you're careful about shavings and coat the drill bit/tap/whatever you're using to create shavings with grease, then blow out the cylinder, you can do it on the car...

posted by  dodger65

really? where can i pick up one of these with a hex nut on it.. autozone?

posted by  C c C

The only CORRECT way to fix this problem would include removing the head.

posted by  DodgeRida67

agreed... but sometimes optimum conditions cannot be met. just suggesting an alternative to the ideal method that i've used in a pinch...

posted by  dodger65

Putting metal shavings in a cylinder is not really an option... the only way to avoid that happening is to remove the head.

posted by  DodgeRida67

Removing the head is DEFINATELY worth the time and effort. Rather take the extra time and have it done right the first time rather then take the quick/easy way and risk messing something up that will be more time consuming and also costly. Good luck with the problem.

posted by  car_crazy89

guys the car is sixteen years old how much longer is it going to last before the frame splits/rots out how much mileage is on it if it was a rebuilt or a newer engine then yes alright pull the head have it fixed find some other problems while this is being done fix those were does it end maybe he'll break more bolt's in the block(exhaust/intake)or he'll spend the money then right it off you got to know when to put the money out for major repairs or just a band-aid

thats my thought's on this say what you want

posted by  osborste

you do it your way, i'll do it mine...

btw- i agreed w/ you that removing the head was the CORRECT way...

and how much damage are some aluminum shavings really going to do, if you minimize them anyway?

posted by  dodger65

Score the cylinder walls, causing ruined piston rings, lots of blow by and lots of oil being burned. A little shavings does alot.

posted by  DodgeRida67

aluminum is gonna score cast iron?

posted by  dodger65

if i grease up the end of the ez out and try that, will it catch the shavings?

posted by  C c C

Easily.


No.

If you can possibly get this thing removed without having to repair the threads and without cutting into the broke plug in any way you'll be safe. I don't see that happening.

Next time you install spark plugs used an anti-seiz. Especially on aluminum threads. They ruin so easy it can drive one mad.

posted by  DodgeRida67

If you can get a needle rod started between the casing and the threads, try to get the casing to fold in towards the center of the opening, gently pry it a bit and try for enough to get a sturdy set of needle nose plyers to grip the fold and you may be able to twist the casing out with minimal damage to threads.

posted by  jackslap

i know you are going to do whatever your experience level, time frame,and budget will allow regardless of what bitter end DR and myself come to, but don't use antiseize on aluminum heads, it removes enough friction that (if you have your handy-dandy shop manual in hand...) when you torque the spark plugs to the proper specs, you will easily strip the spark plug hole. not every time, but that does happen.

the best way to keep from reaming out spark plug holes on aluminum heads is to change the spark plugs when the engine is cold, as aluminum and steel have different rates of heat transfer and expansion. meaning- when you change the spark plugs hot, it reams out the already cool (for the most part) aluminum head.

good luck, and let us all know how you make out.

and DR---props on this thread not degrading into a "flame war"...seriously :thumbs:

posted by  dodger65

If I had a buzzer I'd press it right about now. :laughing:

If anti-seiz was used this thread wouldnt exist in the first place.

On your reason of not using it - it's far from the truth because when torquing anything friction is your enemy and it needs to be removed the best it can be. When you torque anything of significance for the first time you'll be preached to about using the proper lubricant. For instance the rod bolts from ARP I bought on the current motor I'm building - It came with a page lecturing the buyer to use the supplied 'special forumulated moly lube" for correct torque readings. It's not ordinary molydbenum lube either - as it says. Using any other lube or no lube at all would probably cause rod failure and ruin my engine. You may not realize this until you get into torquing things that really count.

posted by  DodgeRida67

ya know, i just peeked into a shop manual, and they do recommend anti seize, so i will retract my earlier statement. however, i will continue my self-imposed moratorium on antiseize between hard and soft metals based on my own experience. you do it your way and i'll do it mine, and we will present these viewpoints, contrasting or otherwise, for the consumption of the thread starter...



i've been torquing "things that count" since you were in diapers, so i'd appreciate it if you didn't assume what i do and don't have experience in... i'm not busting your chops, so there's no reason to be condescending...

posted by  dodger65

well when i bought the car a year ago, the shop tried to change my plugs but couldnt get the one out.. they said they didnt want to break it. well i did. The whole spark plug itself IS out, the threads on the plug are NOT. I can see all the way down the hole and the threads with the tip,and also see past that. removing the head is a b*tch and i honestly dont want to do that not only because its a pain but also because im not that experienced enough the know exactly what goes where or what to take off to get it all.

the motor is a stock motor with 180K on it... so what is the easiest option from this point-an ez out with a nut on the end and use a a socket with an extension? i swear that thing seems almost welded in there when i was cranking on it while it still had the spark plug in it.. so idk :screwy:

posted by  C c C

autozone has the ez-outs w/ the nut formed in... you might want to soak it w/ penetrant, though, first...

posted by  dodger65

HM. I see, so you snapped the insulator 100% off and out and the only thing that's in that head is the hollow base.

I'm sorry to say this, but your only option is to pull off that head.

posted by  DodgeRida67

k if i pull the head off then what do i use to get the hollow threads out?

posted by  C c C

an ez-out... same thing you'd use w/ the head on, except now you have to try to hold the head from twisting... :banghead:

posted by  dodger65

ARGHHHHHHH :cussing:

posted by  C c C

just do it already... :wink2:

posted by  dodger65

MAYBE, just maybe i have gone retarded all of a sudden. ok i HAVE to pull the head... :screwy: but isnt it making it even harder that way by having to hold the head from twisting...?
i got a good idea, how about i strap a grip load of c4 to the SOB and call it quits! :cussing:

hee hee jk :wink2:

posted by  C c C

that IS a permanent solution... i had to ez-out a spark plug on my 85 fiero gt (front side of the engine-what a treat) b/c it had been passed over so many times during tune-ups that the hex RUSTED AWAY! took the plug out, put a new one in (along w/ 5 others in their respective cylinders) and it ran like a champ... i say go for it (though others may disagree)

posted by  dodger65

K ill start it today and let ya know how it goes :thumbs:

posted by  C c C

cool, keep us posted... :thumbs:

posted by  dodger65

well due to finals and all that i havent really had a chance to get on it but yesterday i went out and bought an ez out for the size. without removing the head i was able to use the ez out with an extension and hammer it in.. then i soaked it over night with penetrating oil. well today i went out to crank on it and it seems locked in there pretty good.. there is one problem (like always). the ez is in there,but the opposite side of the screw side is a square (male).. well, an extension has 2 sides with squares. one being a male that normally a socket fits on and the other being the female that fits on the wrench. well i need to use the female side to put on the ez out.. i tried to use a drill but it did not open enough for the extension to fit. i tried using lock pliers but when i cranked on it, i didnt have enough power to make it budge.. would an impact wrench/drill fit around it?

posted by  C c C

well, i'm assuming it's the 1/2" drive extension you're using, so you can put a 1/2" wrench on it. otherwise, you can probably get a 8 point socket from sears in the appropriate size for more leverage...

posted by  dodger65

yeah i was able to fit a 1/2 wrench on it but no luck... ill go down tomorrow and look at some stuff.. ill let you know of my findings! :thumbs:

posted by  C c C

i wasn't expecting great things from a 1/2" wrench, really. not a whole lot of leverage on them, and if there is, the wrench spreads and slips... :banghead:

posted by  dodger65

Wouldn't it be quicker to have a qualified mechanic look at sorting this out?

posted by  Wally

are you suggesting that everyone on here isn't qualified? :laughing:

posted by  windsonian

Who needs to pay qualified mechanics when they have all you dedicated people here offering up suggestions. Your bound to think of one way that will work on getting it out.

posted by  car_crazy89

maybe if the ez out doesn't work... b/c really all we're discussing here is a stuck fastener. i've got faith in him (make me proud, boy...) :laughing:

posted by  dodger65

couldn't you use one of those magnets on the end of a rod to remove any shavings that fall into the engine

posted by  bbaddog

not if it's an aluminum head...

posted by  dodger65

well i'l give ya the benefit of some of my experiance just for kicks, we had an e-350 van with a v10 aluminum heads the guy came in saying it was super loud so i went out and sur enough it was super loud, the rear plug on the right bank blew outa the whole, i gave him options
A. try to get tap down the hole and a heli-coil kit to put a new thread down inside, risking metal filings in the motor(but minimalising with grease or so ive been told
b. pull the head and do it proper was about 11 or 12 hours labour
c. the motor has 200,000kms and has been overheated once, so i suggested about 12 hours labour pull motor and replace with one that had 100,000kms from a wrecker and was nice and clean runner.
he wanted to keep the van so we put a used motor in and put new plugs in with proper torque specs(AND NO ANTI-SIEZE)
i agree with dude there about the antisieze thing cuz if they are my return customers i know when they need tune ups and i was the last to put the plugs in, if your a cheap asshole and never change plugs and you think they'll be in for 3-5-10 years then sure grease em up cheapy, but i would never apply any lubricant to somethin g with crucial specs unless stated in book like head bolts that must be oiled is the only that ive seen so far, and just think anytime you take it to a shop, can u guess how many techs forget to spray the dirt out of your sprak plug hole b4 they pull the plug have you ever seen how much dirt will fall in the cylinder.....oops but they wont tell you they ****ed up and will just put the new plugs in and fire it up, i can't help you here man just do it right pull the head. save yourself the ehadache

posted by  BanffAutoSpa_ap

well i have almost completely removed the head.. harder than i thought. to get off the timing belt and cam gear, do i have to jack the engine up and remove the left engine mount? also, should i take out my radiator so i have room for my headers to lean back so i dont have to remove the whole dam thing to get the head out?

posted by  C c C

couldn't find a socket, eh?

posted by  dodger65

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