Rusty Coolant

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I have a 91 Ford Crown Victoria former Police Interceptor. Apparently, whoever owned it before me ran straight water instead of coolant in the system, so there's a signifigant amount of rust in the system. A few months ago, I drained and flushed the system for hours until the water coming out ran clear, but it was just rusty again after a few minutes of running the engine. Last week, I replaced the radiator and, while it was off, took out the thermostat and ran water through the engine until it was clear again, replaced everything and put brand new coolant in. Of course, it was that same dark brown/orange color again when I checked it the next day. :banghead: Is there anything I can do short of replacing the engine to permanently get this rust out? Any help would be appreciated.

posted by  i_smell_bacon

It's always nice to use the 'Introduce Yourself' sectioon before asking for help, people will be more willing to advise you if you do! :thumbs:

posted by  Cliffy

have you ever done a rebuild :laughing:

posted by  cinqyg

Dude......... :screwy:

Remove thermostat. Get you some flush, 2 bottles. Run all your coolant out, flush with water till clear. Pour 2 bottles of flush in the radiator. fill with water, run engine till radiator hoses pressurize. Allow engine to cool, drain water/flush out of engine with engine running and hose in radiator. Flush, flush flush that stuff out good. Fill with water again. No flush this time. Run till hoses get hard. Allow to cool, drain water out of block and radiator. Put in your thermostat. Fill radiator with the proper coolant and water mix. Your good to go. If it gets dirty again, (which I seriously doubt) you're jynxed :thumbs:

posted by  DodgeRida67

sounds like your going to be needing alot of antifreeze!

posted by  cinqyg

And why would he need anymore than normal?

posted by  DodgeRida67

im to tired dodge can i argue with u tommorrow?

posted by  cinqyg

Who said anything about arguing? :screwy:

posted by  DodgeRida67

Okay I know I'm new here, but seeing as how I work in a lube shop and I service coolant systems on an almost daily basis...

Get a professional chemical radiator flush. If you live in the vicinity of a JiffyLube or a Mr. Lube(Canada only), go to them. They'll hook up your rad to a machine, flush the entire system with a chemical that dissolves rust and scale buildup from old coolant, then recharge the system with new coolant. That way, the entire system, and not just the rad and the coolant lines in the engine block get cleaned, but also the heater core and heater hoses.

If it keeps changing color, you either have a messed up car or possibly oil is leaking into your coolant through a blown head gasket or something. Cops don't seem to take very good care of their cars, they just drive them to 100,000k's and dump them.

P.S. Also always make sure you have the right mixture of water and coolant, or you will just cause more rust buildup. 50/50.

posted by  KNTRDR

I think the main point to be made is to flush the coolant system thoroughly whether he takes the car to Jiffy Lube or use the Prestone's kit sold at Autozone, NAPA, Walmart, etc (replacing the heater hose you tee into when you are through since I personally dont like leaving these things permanently under the hood)

The 50%-50% ethelyne glycol base antifreeze - water mix is important since the a corrosion inhibitor additive package which helps prevents rust and corrosion. Unless the car uses Dex-cool or one of the other long life anti-freezes, the coolant should be changed every 36000 miles (this is also a good time to look @ the condition of the radiator and heater hoses and change them if necessary). If Dex-cool or one of the other long life antifreezes is used, then the cooling system flush can occur @ 60000 miles.

keep in mind antifreeze will kill animals and plants thus proper containment and legal disposal of the old antifreeze is required.

posted by  tbaxleyjr

If you are talking about department cars and company fleet cars, most owners of these fleets look @ maintenance as an expense which makes no money for the firm or organization. They also follow parctices which involve running the vehicle 100K - 150K miles and reselling the car with minimal maintenance. In their business cases, this is more economical than running the car 300K miles and incurr large amounts of repair costs. If you are commenting about your P. D., are you willing to pay additional sales, property, and income taxes to change the practices?

posted by  tbaxleyjr

It works the other way around here, they maintain the cars really well,i guess its because cars cost more here, and they dont use them as battering rams. They are just starting to switch all the cop cars from white to silver to reduce the depretiation at the moment they just cant shift there white cars. Most of the traffic cop cars do 150,000 miles in 2 or so years and they are really well cared for. Mainly bcause they use V70, Merc M class, Range Rovers, BMW's. All of which are £30k-£60k they also have a tendency to chip and uprate the suspentions and brakes.

posted by  cinqyg

They maintain them well, but drive the sh*t out of them. Police chases are not easy on cars, just think of how fast they hit railroad tracks. They practically stop, floor the gas, stop, floor the gas on chases. Whoever would think a retired cop car is a good deal is well, not completely in-touch with reality. Maintaining and driving are two different things. The way they drive them makes them a load of crap when they're done. Ask yourself, hey, why are they getting rid of them?

posted by  DodgeRida67

as i said diffrent culture of driving here, we dont have guns, most people stop, so the only bad thing about them is there high milers.

posted by  cinqyg

B
Bu
Bul
Bull
Bulls
Bullsh
Bullsh*
Bullsh*t
BULLSH*T!

posted by  DodgeRida67

:screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:


Bollox....absolute bollox, I'm thinking of getting an ex-Police car and can garentee It'll be a bargain :ticking:

posted by  Cliffy

And you know this because...

Oh...that's right...you live in Georgia...apparently.
.
.

posted by  BavarianWheels

cliffy am i right or am i right

posted by  cinqyg

Ok gang. Any more insights on flushing cooling systems?

posted by  tbaxleyjr

Not to put you on the spot tbax, but come on, your right above me here. How do cops drive their cars? Not maintain.

posted by  DodgeRida67

Ok....I'm behind tbaxle here, as a fellow Mod, I have to uphold some form of order. I will however say that you are indeed right cinqyg, however, different contries treat their Service vehicles differently, in the UK we maintain them regardless of cost, drive them according to home office regulations and dont use them as battering rams...that's enough said on the matter :ticking:

posted by  Cliffy

OK -- let me say the last on this topic. There is a reason they get rid of the cars. That's all I gotta say about it. Just think about that. :mrgreen:

posted by  DodgeRida67

Now that's a great way of putting spending budgets to zero.
.
.

posted by  BavarianWheels

Regardless of cost....within reason, and where cost effective Bav :thumbs:

*Says nothing more*

posted by  Cliffy

The same reason most of us get rid of cars -

This differs from fleet to fleet - A rental car company moves the cars when income - depreciation - routine maintenance - overhead (office staff, car washers, etc) ceases to mean adequate profit margin which usually occurs @ 20-30K miles (which customer will pay preminum for a rattle trap and which rental car company would not get rid of the car while repairs are on the delaer's nickle)

In the case of the civil servants, this is when the cost of repairs and maintenance reach a certain percentage of the cars value (one does not want to spend $2000/yr for maintenance, fuel, repairs, liability insurance, etc on a car or asset worth between $2500 and $3000). From a business perspective, the car is worn out.

A personal example is a 1986 Mazda my 21 yr old used to own. I sold the car for her when it was needing CV joints, and the AC repaired and several other misc repair items done - the cost of this work (parts only since I do my own work) approached $500. The cars whlolesale book value was about $400 - I sold the car since it economically, it approached the end of its useful service life.

I was not trying to duck a conversation as much as keep the discussion about radiator flushing on radiator flushing but do it way which I hope comes across with a sense of humor

posted by  tbaxleyjr

Wow, it sure looks as though I've opened a can of worms here, and a rather large can it was...didn't mean any offense folks, hope no one took any.

posted by  KNTRDR

Nah...nobody has taken offence, we're all like that here, one minute we're talking about rads...and the next, we could be talking about pop culture in the 1960's :ticking:

posted by  Cliffy

Controversy is always my fault. :ohcrap:

posted by  DodgeRida67

If any one took offence, you would have known it - you would have been flamed and burned by now or have gotten a PM from me or another mod.

come on back and well have a good ole time

We do have an off topic forum where we talk about everything from cars to girly pictures (we had one bloke who posted a picture of his girlfriend or someone in that forum then had his wife find the picture - we had a lot of fun out of those two before we decided they needed serious profesional help with their problems0

posted by  tbaxleyjr

Ah yes, how about that 60's pop culture?

posted by  KNTRDR

I cant speak much for the pop culture - I am only in my early 40's

posted by  tbaxleyjr

I cant speak much of the pop culture myself...I'm only in my 20's....It was the first thing that came into my mind to tell you the truth lol :smoke:

posted by  Cliffy

Ok at this point the rust is a silt like mud in the engine block

very difficult to clean this off. You see, the mud is restricting the new antifreeze from reaching all of the engine block

I can recall flushing a engine block 4 times the standard way and it still having mud and rust.

If you want to be very thourough, you would pop out the freeze plugs on the side of the engine block ( make sure you have freeze plugs to put in as ull probably warp them hitting them out ) with a mallet and punch, and then clean the block from those holes with your finger and maybe brushes.

posted by  stamar

be careful the plugs don't get pushed into the block

I haven't pulled any out on any of my cars. I have heard you can tap one edge with a mallet and screwdriver until the freeze plug turns sideways wnough to grab it with plers. I have also heard of people drilling them, screwing in a self tapping screw and pulling out with pliers.

posted by  tbaxleyjr

be very very careful if u start tring to leaver them out, or you will damage the seat and to fix it can be a very painful job.

posted by  cinqyg

Try to find a chemical treatment company that looks after cooling towers. Ask them for a mild alkali wash and flocculating solution to give the engine a good clean. They will advise the best chemical for your car.

posted by  Wally

ummm,all i have to say is rubber seals and hoses, becareful what you use as otherwise you might spend next weekend changing every rubber hose and washer in your coolant system.

posted by  cinqyg

I am not sure I would use a flocculant-flocculant makes small particles join together to form large globs to make something settle as part of a clarifying process as in large utility cooling towers, potable water treatment, waste water treatment, etc. We may not want that happening inside the motor

posted by  tbaxleyjr

hose pipe and lots of water has always served me fine.

posted by  cinqyg

with the flush kit in the heater hose to ensure a good back flushing, w water hose and a bunch of water will probably be fine here too

posted by  tbaxleyjr

The problem, as I see it, is that there is obviously large scale deposits for the water to be fowling so readily. This would indicate to me there is piles of debris already in the system that needs to be put in suspension for a flush to work. Thus the alkali to break down the scale into small particles.

Short of that a specialist should probably be employed to do the job.

posted by  Wally

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