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Old 08-04-2004, 04:11 AM   #1
Zalight
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Whats with the VR6?

I've heard often heard people calling the VR6 "revolutionary" or that " it's one of the most original piston engines ever made beside the w8" and all sorts of other praise for it. Whats so signifigant and cool about it? I was under the impression that it was like most other V6 engines, but apparently i was wrong...
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Old 08-04-2004, 09:07 AM   #2
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The VR6 is an OK engine, but it's not radical really. It's just a very narrow angle V6. Unfortunately, that means it can overheat in the middle of the engine, but only if you're being silly, or tuning the life out of it.

The people who say it is a 'revolutionary' engine are in marketing: they're the same people that will tell you that Volkswagens are really reliable, and that Golfs aren't really dull to look at. Unfortunately, people tend to believe their lies.
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Old 08-04-2004, 01:51 PM   #3
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to know just why the VR6 engine is so praised, u need to know its exact advantages and genius design. everyone thinks its easy to make a narrow angle V6, but its not. just imagine a V6 engine with the cylinders parted by 15 degrees. the whole situation is, they will still share the same cylinder block and head, instead of using 2, like an inline 6. they also use a 7 main bearing crankshaft like an inline 6. their real advantage comes to their compact size. they are only a bit larger than inline 4 engines, and ATLEAST half as wide as a V6. so for a 6 piston engine, this is extremely compact. also, the newer generation VR6, which came out in july of '99 (i believe), its new 24 valve DOHC model was first finally assembled and set into production. because of the pistons being parted by a 15 degree angle, but still shared the same cylinder block and head, u can imagine just how damn hard it was to make that engine into a 24 valve DOHC design (try to make the intake valves be controlled by one camshaft and the exhaust by another and be efficient in weight, friction, and performance).


the W8 really isnt much of a revolutionary engine, mainly cuz its not so well balanced out at all. the W12 is just 2 VR6's mated together side by side with a certain angle between them (i think it was 60-90), the w16 was 2 VR8 engines (still not really into production, but it's being currently produced for next year), and the W18 is just some psycho idea Audi used to have which was pretty stupid. it consisted of 3 inline-6 engines lined up so that one was in the center, one to the right, and one to the left. so there were double V banks, since each inline-6 engine had a V bank next to it, actually, the middle one had 2 next to it, the left and right ones. it was larger than a V12, less efficient than a V12, heavier than a V12, hella more expensive than a V12, so on so on. so the idea was discarded.
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Old 08-04-2004, 08:28 PM   #4
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Damn... Thanks for all the info! I never knew any of that about most of those engines, I've never looked much into Volkswagen.

Hey, Ignyknok, it says your from Puerto Rico under location. But your english is excellent. Better then some people that have been speaking it all their life. Did you move to PR or born there or what?
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Old 08-04-2004, 10:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalight
I've heard often heard people calling the VR6 "revolutionary" or that " it's one of the most original piston engines ever made beside the w8" and all sorts of other praise for it. Whats so signifigant and cool about it? I was under the impression that it was like most other V6 engines, but apparently i was wrong...

The Vr6 isn't really anything special in my mind. It's power output is best left to being 'qujite pathetic'. 200hp from 2.8L DOHC v6?

Honda's K24 in the TSX - 2.4L DOHC 16v - 200hp
Honda's J30 in the Accord - 3.0L SOHC 24v - 240hp

and just for the good 'ole icing on the cake...

Honda's J32 in the TL - 3.2L SOHC 24v - 270hp
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Old 08-07-2004, 01:31 PM   #6
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nah, i was born here. ive just spoken english from an early age, and i really dont like spanish anyhow. i just have to speak spanish cuz, duhh, i live in PR.
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Old 08-07-2004, 01:34 PM   #7
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The VR6 for what it is isnt very impressive at all. The 3.2 litre R32 golf is far better
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Old 08-07-2004, 11:07 PM   #8
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Yeah my local dealership was selling one. I tried to convince them to let me test drive it, but they don't let you drive it until all the paperwork to buy the car is actually signed.

And I could be wrong but doesn't the R32 have a VR6 in it?
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Old 08-08-2004, 04:59 AM   #9
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yea, that r32 has a souped up version of the VR6 engine. larger bore and stroke, and much higher compression. i think the compression was around 11.6 if im not mistaken.
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Old 08-09-2004, 02:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Lukaz
The VR6 for what it is isnt very impressive at all. The 3.2 litre R32 golf is far better

It only has 240hp...i think that's pathetic for a high compression performance DOHC 3.2 engine... I'll say this again....

Honda's SOHC 24v 3.0L = 240hp... and thier 3.2 SOHC 24v = 270hp....IN FAMILY SEDANS!! Not to mention the puny 2.0L 1g S2000 engine...240hp.

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Old 08-09-2004, 03:11 PM   #11
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Having driven a range of Hondas, I can say that the power figures on paper are very far from the whole story.

The Honda engines just don't have any torque further down the rev range. You have to thrash them to go anywhere. A V6, with a fairly flat torque curve, is going to be a lot more relaxed.

I've really enjoyed driving a few quick Hondas (Civic VTi, Civic Type R, S2000, Accord 2.2 somethingorother) because they rev so well, but I wouldn't want to own one: I just don't want to have to rev to 8,000 rpm all the time to get anywhere.

Back to Golfs: the major disadvantage with the R32 is its horrible 4wd system. There's just no feel to it at all.
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Old 08-11-2004, 03:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
The Vr6 isn't really anything special in my mind. It's power output is best left to being 'qujite pathetic'. 200hp from 2.8L DOHC v6?

Honda's K24 in the TSX - 2.4L DOHC 16v - 200hp
Honda's J30 in the Accord - 3.0L SOHC 24v - 240hp

and just for the good 'ole icing on the cake...

Honda's J32 in the TL - 3.2L SOHC 24v - 270hp

*sigh* so opinionated for such a young person...

The VR6 is special because it's a V6 that BOLTS into the place of a 4 cyl in the VW. While the HP figures are "nothing special" to you, the overall torque curve, flexibility, and driveability certainly should be. Remember, hp is only a derived number, it's torque that does the work. the 200 hp VR6 has 195 lb ft of torque at a very daily driveable 3200 rpm. The TSX you mention has 200 hp, but only 166 lb ft of torque, and it comes in over a thousand rpm higher! Yes, the Accord has 240 hp and 212 lb ft of torque (but that torque is at 5500 rpm! Not much in the way of low end, daily driver ability!), but it does it from more displacement, and a physically much larger and heavier engine (again, the point of the VR6 is to get nearly 3 liters of V6 ability in the space normally reserved for a 4 cyl engine).

Sorry that you can't really figure that out.
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Old 08-12-2004, 10:52 PM   #13
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*sigh* so opinionated for such a young person...

The VR6 is special because it's a V6 that BOLTS into the place of a 4 cyl in the VW. While the HP figures are "nothing special" to you, the overall torque curve, flexibility, and driveability certainly should be. Remember, hp is only a derived number, it's torque that does the work. the 200 hp VR6 has 195 lb ft of torque at a very daily driveable 3200 rpm. The TSX you mention has 200 hp, but only 166 lb ft of torque, and it comes in over a thousand rpm higher! Yes, the Accord has 240 hp and 212 lb ft of torque (but that torque is at 5500 rpm! Not much in the way of low end, daily driver ability!), but it does it from more displacement, and a physically much larger and heavier engine (again, the point of the VR6 is to get nearly 3 liters of V6 ability in the space normally reserved for a 4 cyl engine).

Sorry that you can't really figure that out.

The VR-6 sacrifices power for 'mid-range'...not anything I care about in my book if you're going to make barely ANY power up high. You are basically talking to a wall in that statement and it shows that you dont know much about Hondas to begin with. The driveability of a J30 Accord is probably easier than a VR-6 Jetta or Golf. I've driven it several times and could easily pull from 60mph in 6th gear. The whole ideology behind i-Vtec (the system imposed upon the K24 in the TSX) is for strictly low-midrange torque and having a flatter torque curve. OF COURSE it's going to have less torque and come at a higher rpm..it's a SMALLER engine... 2.4L four compared to a 2.8L six. Common Sense should kick in there and tell you, well, I guess it has more torque because it has MORE DISPLACEMENT AND TWO MORE CYLINDERS. But, I guess that just doesn't seem to knock in sometimes. Call me crazy, but that's what it tells me
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Old 08-13-2004, 12:09 PM   #14
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Common Sense should kick in there and tell you, well, I guess it has more torque because it has MORE DISPLACEMENT AND TWO MORE CYLINDERS. But, I guess that just doesn't seem to knock in sometimes. Call me crazy, but that's what it tells me

Didn't you start by arguing that Honda engines were better? Do you not see the link between torque and real-world performance?
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Old 08-13-2004, 09:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
The VR-6 sacrifices power for 'mid-range'...not anything I care about in my book if you're going to make barely ANY power up high.

And yo0ur book is how old? And you have how much experience?


Quote:
You are basically talking to a wall in that statement

Oh, don't I know it. Yo've proven that you have formed concrete and ironclad opinions on everything without having much, if any, actual experience. A wall that says, "gee, at 17 years old, I already know everything and refuse to learn."


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and it shows that you dont know much about Hondas to begin with.

No, I've only been dealing with race versions for a couple decades.

Quote:
The driveability of a J30 Accord is probably easier than a VR-6 Jetta or Golf.

probably? Probably? Love teh way you throw around terms to cover up the fact that all you are is a magazine racer.

Quote:
OF COURSE it's going to have less torque and come at a higher rpm..it's a SMALLER engine... 2.4L four compared to a 2.8L six. Common Sense should kick in there and tell you, well, I guess it has more torque because it has MORE DISPLACEMENT AND TWO MORE CYLINDERS. But, I guess that just doesn't seem to knock in sometimes. Call me crazy, but that's what it tells me

Common sense would then tell you that the ability to put two more cylinders and extra displacement in the space that only 4 cyls occupied would MAKE it the reason for it being special. Call me crazy, but that's what it tells me... It doesn't seem to knock into YOU that the point was to HAVE more cylinders and more displacement in less physical space to GET that added torque and driveability of a larger engine without the penalty of actually having a physically larger engine...
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