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Old 08-12-2003, 11:19 PM   #1
Widowmaker2k
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351 Cleveland vs. Windsor

I'm just curious as to which is considered a better engine nowadays. I've heard that stock for stock the Cleveland is better, but that the Windsor has a better aftermarket? Any thoughts?
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Old 08-12-2003, 11:57 PM   #2
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Re: 351 Cleveland vs. Windsor

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Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k
I'm just curious as to which is considered a better engine nowadays. I've heard that stock for stock the Cleveland is better, but that the Windsor has a better aftermarket? Any thoughts?

The reason the Windsor has a better aftermarket is two fold. First it's a much more common engine so availability is better. Second while the Cleveland is a legendary name it has a weak bottom end. Parts breakage is high, parts are expensive, etc.

Can you make more power with a Cleveland, probably. Can you make the same power with a Windsor for a lower price along with better reliability, absolutley.

One more thing. Windsors are an easier fit when doing an engine swap. The Cleveland top end is huge.
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Old 08-14-2003, 12:34 AM   #3
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Thanx VW, you are as informative as ever. I really appreciate your help.
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:29 AM   #4
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just thought i'd add my two cents....VW couldn't be more right i have a friend who put a clevland into his foxbody mustang. He would complain for hours everyday at work about how expesive it was and how hard it was to find parts and how nothing fit quite right in the car. It seemed like a nightmare.
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Old 10-29-2003, 12:30 AM   #5
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a 351 clevland can be bored and stroked to preform like a 429 the clevlands got a 380hp start without mods. the clevland is the way to go wink
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Old 10-30-2003, 09:03 PM   #6
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there's no denying it you can deffinitly get a lot of power outta a clevland and it would be fairly rare since people don't like to build them much. Again the reason for the rarity of them is you cannot find parts for them. I've seen a guy i know spend YEARS getting parts together so he could build one and then spent years putting it together when he found out some of the parts didn't work. For me personally it just seems like a head ache but if you have the time and paitence go for it man.
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Old 11-02-2003, 02:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niceride80
a 351 clevland can be bored and stroked to preform like a 429 the clevlands got a 380hp start without mods. the clevland is the way to go

Please supply me with the imaginary information for making this conversion. And please tell me what car a 351 Cleveland with 380 hp came in. Thank you.
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Old 05-23-2004, 01:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Please supply me with the imaginary information for making this conversion. And please tell me what car a 351 Cleveland with 380 hp came in. Thank you.

Well we had the Falcon XY GTHO here in 1970/71 that put out 380bhp standard. It was the fastest production car in the world at the time.
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Old 11-04-2003, 12:59 AM   #9
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um.....a 1971 Mustang Mach 1 with a 351cleveland can put out 385hp stock 8)
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Old 11-04-2003, 01:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niceride80
um.....a 1971 Mustang Mach 1 with a 351cleveland can put out 385hp stock 8)

That is not information, that is smoke blowing out your ass. I also notice you gained 5 hp between posts.

1971 Mustang, 351C, 4 bbl, 330 hp @ 5400 rpm, 370 lbs/ft @ 3400. Source, Motor's 1972 Auto Repair Manual, 35th edition, page 2-349. I have put up now you should shut up.

And by the way. You could stroke the 351C crank .090" to equal the 429 but you're not gonna get a .360" bore on it. Not unless you think the rings will seat inside the water jackets. You need to read your magazine closer.

I almost forgot, a second source.

http://www.boss351registry.com/351_Cleveland.htm
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Old 11-04-2003, 11:41 PM   #11
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oim sry r u gonna shoot me 4 the 5hp diffrence im also sry that ur vw have been defeated if that is wut ur sooo mad about um....... maybe if u had a real spec book and not junk such as ur book then u would know that a 351c is 330 or wut ever u said and u would know that it was 380hp. i also have a friend that is a pro racer and believe me he could smoke u in the wealth of knowlodge especially when it comes to borin and strokin so i dont think u should blow numbers out ur nose and call it right may be try looking at a book where my info is comin from called American Muscle Cars ByJim Campisano. i also learned that the 351c beats out the 429 stock so that means the borin the 1971 351c would out number a 439. the 351 was made to be a street engine and be able to be worked. so i suspect that u were upset because my post did not go along wit wut u said and now u feel defeated so im sry 2 inflict and shame but this is fact. thanks buddy 4 tryin real hard but ur sources just dont work
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Old 11-04-2003, 11:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niceride80
oim sry r u gonna shoot me 4 the 5hp diffrence im also sry that ur vw have been defeated if that is wut ur sooo mad about um....... maybe if u had a real spec book and not junk such as ur book then u would know that a 351c is 330 or wut ever u said and u would know that it was 380hp. i also have a friend that is a pro racer and believe me he could smoke u in the wealth of knowlodge especially when it comes to borin and strokin so i dont think u should blow numbers out ur nose and call it right may be try looking at a book where my info is comin from called American Muscle Cars By:Jim Campisano. i also learned that the 351c beats out the 429 stock so that means the borin the 1971 351c would out number a 439. the 351 was made to be a street engine and be able to be worked. so i suspect that u were upset because my post did not go along wit wut u said and now u feel defeated so im sry 2 inflict and shame but this is fact. thanks buddy 4 tryin real hard but ur sources just dont work

First off try using punctuation, actual words and sentence structure. Maybe it's hard to type when your head is pushed so far up your ass, I don't know. Typing a garbled message and speaking in codes doesn't cover up the fact that you are wrong.

Believe me when I say my sources are more than reliable. Also believe me when I tell you I've been inside more 351C's than you have ever seen.

Finally I can assure you my Volkswagens have NEVER been outrun by a car with a 351, Cleveland, Modified, or Windsor. But I'm always happy to take their money.
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Old 11-05-2003, 12:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Finally I can assure you my Volkswagens have NEVER been outrun by a car with a 351, Cleveland, Modified, or Windsor. But I'm always happy to take their money.

::laughs::

I've seen many Vdubs obliterate some "muscle cars" and the losers just shake their heads in disbelief.
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Old 11-05-2003, 04:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianWheels
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Finally I can assure you my Volkswagens have NEVER been outrun by a car with a 351, Cleveland, Modified, or Windsor. But I'm always happy to take their money.

I've seen many Vdubs obliterate some "muscle cars" and the losers just shake their heads in disbelief.

Bavarianwheels -well bavarian wheels let me tell you that any american muscle car could beat out a VW. What did a VW come in a inline 6 or maybe v6? (Please tell me because im not that good with vw's) Maybe you should check and realize that american musclecars such as a Chevorlet Chevelle or Ford Mustang came with a v8, ranging in the 300's to 400's. That would smoke any VW. I don't want to fight Bavarianwheels i just know that a vw was not as powerful as a musclecar.

Vwhobo-Now VWhobo let me assure you that my source being the pro racer knows much more than anyone out there. Do you watch pro dragging? Its nice to hear that you have been in many 351c's. But have you actually worked on them or just stuck a finger up your nose and said hmmm... let me tell this guy I worked on 351c's to try and look impresive. Well one thing you didn't impress me at all. Have you ever machined a 351c. Do you even work on cars or do you just sit behind books and call it working on cars? This pro i know has a full machine shop and believe me he ain't doing no half a** job. Oh one last thing sorry I didn't write a formal paper for you to be able to read it. I figured that it would save me sometime to use abrvs. and it wouldnt cause any pain or harm. And no my head is not shoved up my a** thanks for the assumtion anyway. Besides why do you always look to fight with people?
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Old 11-05-2003, 04:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niceride80
Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianWheels
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Finally I can assure you my Volkswagens have NEVER been outrun by a car with a 351, Cleveland, Modified, or Windsor. But I'm always happy to take their money.

I've seen many Vdubs obliterate some "muscle cars" and the losers just shake their heads in disbelief.

Bavarianwheels -well bavarian wheels let me tell you that any american muscle car could beat out a VW. What did a VW come in a inline 6 or maybe v6? (Please tell me because im not that good with vw's) Maybe you should check and realize that american musclecars such as a Chevorlet Chevelle or Ford Mustang came with a v8, ranging in the 300's to 400's. That would smoke any VW. I don't want to fight Bavarianwheels i just know that a vw was not as powerful as a musclecar.

Vwhobo-Now VWhobo let me assure you that my source being the pro racer knows much more than anyone out there. Do you watch pro dragging? Its nice to hear that you have been in many 351c's. But have you actually worked on them or just stuck a finger up your nose and said hmmm... let me tell this guy I worked on 351c's to try and look impresive. Well one thing you didn't impress me at all. Have you ever machined a 351c. Do you even work on cars or do you just sit behind books and call it working on cars? This pro i know has a full machine shop and believe me he ain't doing no half a** job. Oh one last thing sorry I didn't write a formal paper for you to be able to read it. I figured that it would save me sometime to use abrvs. and it wouldnt cause any pain or harm. And no my head is not shoved up my a** thanks for the assumtion anyway. Besides why do you always look to fight with people?

what the f*ck crawled up your ass?
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