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Old 01-13-2005, 12:59 AM   #1
Godlaus
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Politics

I'm curious to see of what party everyone in this forum is; so go ahead and answer these questions,

FOR ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS
1. Republican/Democrat
2. Pro-iraq war/ anti-iraq war
3. Christian/ Other
4. Pro-abortion/ Anti-abortion
5. Pro-gun control/ Anti-gun control

FOR ALL OF YOU OVERSEAS
1. Opinion of american citizens
2. Opinion of iraq war
3. Opinion of George W Bush
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Old 01-13-2005, 02:12 AM   #2
JaneiR36
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Democrat

On war: Necessary ****ing evil. I cannot wrap my mind around the details needed to make up my mind one way or another; although, I am leaning more towards anti-war. I guess that's why they do not pay me the big bucks to be President of the United States.

Christian

Pro-abortion

Anti-gun control (you'd still need a licence to legally own one, right?!?)
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Old 01-13-2005, 02:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneiR36
Democrat

On war: Necessary ****ing evil. I cannot wrap my mind around the details needed to make up my mind one way or another; although, I am leaning more towards anti-war. I guess that's why they do not pay me the big bucks to be President of the United States.

Christian

Pro-abortion

Anti-gun control (you'd still need a licence to legally own one, right?!?)
Isn't it ironic? If your mother was pro-abortion, you wouldn't be here to share your thoughts. You might want to re-think your stance... or at least your description thereof.
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Old 01-13-2005, 02:28 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
Isn't it ironic? If your mother was pro-abortion, you wouldn't be here to share your thoughts. You might want to re-think your stance... or at least your description thereof.

Here we go again
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Old 01-13-2005, 02:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneiR36
Here we go again
You ARE the one who said pro-abortion. I disagree with people who are pro-choice, but the thought of being pro-abortion is beyond comprehension. Negative population growth and the eventual extinction of our species. I agree in as much as I wish some of the mothers of the children who post here were pro-abortion, but overall I think it's a bad idea.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:23 AM   #6
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Republican

Anti-war, but like VWhobo, support us being in Iraq 100%

Other

Anti-abortion unless rape and incest occurs. In that case, pro.

anti-gun control
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:42 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
You ARE the one who said pro-abortion. I disagree with people who are pro-choice, but the thought of being pro-abortion is beyond comprehension. Negative population growth and the eventual extinction of our species. I agree in as much as I wish some of the mothers of the children who post here were pro-abortion, but overall I think it's a bad idea.

"Here we go again," because

(a) We already know a good bit of my view on the subject, and the discussion can be quite exhaustive.

(b) You're splitting hairs:

The question was posed in a two-part format and most people know what each part was referring to. So I didn't correct him and say, "no, I'm pro-choice." Big deal. I think those kind of responses are a big, fat cop-out, anyway. Everyone knows what abortion is, you either believe people should have the right to it (under certain circumstances, maybe) or you don't. There's no need to sugar-coat it.

It's kind of like when people ask, "are you pro-choice?" and the person replies, "I'm pro-choice. I choose the life of an innocent child," or some shit like that. Or "are you pro-life?" "Yes, I'm pro the lives of already-born children who go neglected everyday." I think such responses totally dance around the issue.

We all know what abortion today is. If a question is asking are you for it or against it, we should be able to give a clear, concise answer and the reader or listener should know what we're referring to. And this has nothing to do with said listener or reader having a crystal ball, either Just plain ol' familiarity with the subject, as it is defined today.

Uh... abortion will lead to the end of the species? Isn't that a tad dramatic?
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Old 01-13-2005, 05:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Isn't it ironic? If your mother was pro-abortion, you wouldn't be here to share your thoughts. You might want to re-think your stance... or at least your description thereof.


ooohh, careful vwhobo, if he was really feeling mean, he could take snipe at your kids. it'd be crossing the line, but you did start it.

1. Little of both (Down with welfare rewarding bad behavior!)
2. Anti-iraq war NOW, but was for it at the start
3. Atheist
4. Anti-abortion (Keep your dick in your pants)
5. Pro gun control (Taka japan as an example)
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Old 01-13-2005, 05:08 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Godlaus
ooohh, careful vwhobo, if he was really feeling mean, he could take snipe at your kids. it'd be crossing the line, but you did start it.
Huh???
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Old 01-13-2005, 05:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
Huh???

never mind, I'm sure you could hold your own if he started off on something about abortion and your kid.
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Old 01-23-2005, 11:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Isn't it ironic? If your mother was pro-abortion, you wouldn't be here to share your thoughts. You might want to re-think your stance... or at least your description thereof.

This is true.. but you can also look at it another way. Without abortion, there are numerous cases where the mother, instead of the child, might not be alive today to share her own thoughts


This is a very complex issue, and I don't think it is up to any of man to decide for another women what she can do with her own body (of course, depending on which stage of pregnancy the mother is in..)

Democrat/Independant. I don't want to label myself under any political party, but I am definitely more liberal than conservative, so if I had to choose, it would be democrat.

Anti Iraq war. As far as i'm concerned, we've been lied to about why we're in Iraq, and the fatalities of our own people as well as innocent Iraqi people are far too high to justify staying there much longer.

Agnostic

Pro choice
(In my opinion, not many anti abortion people are actually supporting their belifs. They are anti abortion, but not pro life. What happens to the child after he or she is born? They can be put up for adoption, yes.. But what happens to them if they are not adopted? )

Pro gun control
Certain people should definitely not be permitted to own a deadly weapon such as a gun
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Old 01-24-2005, 12:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Spitsign
This is true.. but you can also look at it another way. Without abortion, there are numerous cases where the mother, instead of the child, might not be alive today to share her own thoughts
You don't get it do you. She said PRO-ABORTION. That means she believes that pregnant women should have abortions. If all pregnant women had abortions the human race would become extinct. Words mean things and she never said anything about choice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsign
This is a very complex issue, and I don't think it is up to any of man to decide for another women what she can do with her own body (of course, depending on which stage of pregnancy the mother is in..)
Really? Then you haven't given it much thought. The last time I checked not many women get pregnant by themselves, there is also a man involved. Being as that is a fairly accurate and truthful statement the man should also be involved in the decision concerning the termination of the pregnancy. The other side of the coin is that if women are the only ones who can legally make that decision, that means that the man is relieved of all responsibility for said pregnancy. As such, if the woman decides to have the baby then the man cannot be held liable for child support, etc. Liberals want to have it both ways. Be realistic and at least pick one or the other.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsign
Democrat/Independant. I don't want to label myself under any political party, but I am definitely more liberal than conservative, so if I had to choose, it would be democrat.
Sorry to hear that, but that's your choice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsign
Anti Iraq war. As far as i'm concerned, we've been lied to about why we're in Iraq, and the fatalities of our own people as well as innocent Iraqi people are far too high to justify staying there much longer.
Lied too? By who? The United Nations and the European Union had the same information as we did. The only difference is that we acted on it. Was the information faulty, most assuredly, but it's what we had to work with. And saying anti-war is a bit ignorant. How many people are actually pro-war. Probably the same number who are pro-abortion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsign
Agnostic
You see, we do have a common ground.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsign
Pro choice
(In my opinion, not many anti abortion people are actually supporting their belifs. They are anti abortion, but not pro life. What happens to the child after he or she is born? They can be put up for adoption, yes.. But what happens to them if they are not adopted? )
There's that word again, choice. How can you say being anti-abortion is not being pro-life? Please explain, in detail, exactly how that works. As you're typing keep in mind I'm pro-life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsign
Pro gun control
Certain people should definitely not be permitted to own a deadly weapon such as a gun
Another ignorant statement. There are plenty of people who aren't legally allowed to own a firearm. Maybe if we simply enforced the laws already on the books this discussion wouldn't be taking place. While we're at it, what other deadly weapons should we "control" or make illegal? Butcher knives? Nail guns? Automobiles? Aircraft? Care for me to go on?


Bottom line is this. I support your right to have your opinion... but I certainly don't have to agree with it, especially when facts don't back it up. My guess is that your still young and haven't reaaly seen the world for what it is yet. When you do you'll change your mind.
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Old 01-24-2005, 12:34 AM   #13
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"You don't get it do you. She said PRO-ABORTION. That means she believes that pregnant women should have abortions. If all pregnant women had abortions the human race would become extinct. Words mean things and she never said anything about choice."


If you take it for the literal meaning of the phrase "pro abortion
" then yes, it is sadistic and wrong. However, the way we as a society view the phrase is not in the literal sense. Pro abortion simply means that, if a woman wishes to undergo the operation, then she should be allowed to. It doesn't imply that every pregnant woman must have one.

My point was, without abortion, in many cases the mother may not live after giving life to her child. This is why abortion is definitely beneficial in many cases. Of course, many times the mothers life is not at risk. But, like I said, I believe it is her choice on what to do with her own body. It is a very complex issue, I don't believe we should just illegalize it and forget it.



"Really? Then you haven't given it much thought. The last time I checked not many women get pregnant by themselves, there is also a man involved. Being as that is a fairly accurate and truthful statement the man should also be involved in the decision concerning the termination of the pregnancy. The other side of the coin is that if women are the only ones who can legally make that decision, that means that the man is relieved of all responsibility for said pregnancy. As such, if the woman decides to have the baby then the man cannot be held liable for child support, etc. Liberals want to have it both ways. Be realistic and at least pick one or the other. "



I have given it much thought, and believe me, I do not view this issue as black and white. I can see why you are anti abortion, and I respect your opinion. However, my own morals and beliefs do not permit me to tell another person what to do with his or her own body.

And yes, of course you need two people for pregnancy. But who really suffers the consequences? In many cases, the man can go off and live his life, when the woman has to suffer. No, this is not always the case, but frequently is.


On a side note, I do agree with you that if abortion were made legal in the supreme court, it would appear that man should not always be responsible for the child. One instance: IF the man wants an abortion, and the woman declines, decides to have the baby, but does not have the money.. it should be her problem. The man offered his solution to the problem, and she did not listen to the advice.
Like I said, I am not affiliated with one party and i am not narrow minded. I try my best to view issues from all sides.
Trust me, I am not simply a liberal who wants it both ways




"Sorry to hear that, but that's your choice."




"Lied too? By who? The United Nations and the European Union had the same information as we did. The only difference is that we acted on it. Was the information faulty, most assuredly, but it's what we had to work with. And saying anti-war is a bit ignorant. How many people are actually pro-war. Probably the same number who are pro-abortion."

It may have been misinformation. It may not have been. You are no higher authority on the matter than any other on this forum, we are all entitled to our opinions. The way I see it is this: Bush and his team have their own agenda, and they are willing to do whatever it takes to succeed in their goals. They are willing to lie to the americans. Most large scale politicians will do the same, and that is why I do not like many of them.



"You see, we do have a common ground."



"There's that word again, choice. How can you say being anti-abortion is not being pro-life? Please explain, in detail, exactly how that works. As you're typing keep in mind I'm pro-life."

I did explain it.
Being born is one thing. Living is another. Orphans often feel as if they are worthless, and live their lives suffering from depression; many times depression causes suicide. This is obviously not life.
Often, the mother does not put the child up for adoption. She keeps him. For many young mothers, this is not a wise financial decision (obviously) and can lead the mother and the child into a very unhealthy life.



"Another ignorant statement. There are plenty of people who aren't legally allowed to own a firearm. Maybe if we simply enforced the laws already on the books this discussion wouldn't be taking place. While we're at it, what other deadly weapons should we "control" or make illegal? Butcher knives? Nail guns? Automobiles? Aircraft? Care for me to go on?"

Of course there are plenty of people who aren;t legally allowed to own a fire arm. When did I say there weren't? Without a form of gun control in place, this wouldn't be so..
Pointing out that there are other weapons, and that it is impossible to remove the threat that humans place on one another, really doesn't shift the gun control argument one way or another.


Bottom line is this. I support your right to have your opinion... but I certainly don't have to agree with it, especially when facts don't back it up. My guess is that your still young and haven't reaaly seen the world for what it is yet. When you do you'll change your mind.

You don't have to agree with it. And I don't have to agree with yours. Of course, there are facts to look up my argument. If you really are interested in what i'm saying, you can find the time to investigate in the matter. If not, it isn't worth my time arguing, is it?

Last edited by Spitsign : 01-24-2005 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
You don't get it do you. She said PRO-ABORTION. That means she believes that pregnant women should have abortions. If all pregnant women had abortions the human race would become extinct. Words mean things and she never said anything about choice.

Oh, come ON, Hobo!

If I were pro Drag Racing it means I think it should exist, not that I think everyone HAS TO HAVE a drag race car. If I'm pro-sushi it doesn't mean that I want every meal to BE sushi, or that everyone has to EAT sushi. There's a huge leap of illogic in claiming that pro-abortion means everyone HAS to have an abortion.

That's simply retarded. Especially considering your ranting about words and their meanings.

And as to your original question, if her mother had had an abortion, I doubt JaneiR36 would care about it at this point, now would she?
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Old 01-26-2005, 01:54 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
Lied too? By who? The United Nations and the European Union had the same information as we did. The only difference is that we acted on it. Was the information faulty, most assuredly, but it's what we had to work with. And saying anti-war is a bit ignorant. How many people are actually pro-war. Probably the same number who are pro-abortion.


funny vid. http://www.kwinkies.com/index.php?mode=blog&id=1703 hope the link works.

are these the rupublican facts you are taling about??
also, most steps forward were liberal, conservatives have held this country back. and as for liberals and their "what ifs" at least they can think ahead, and see what may happen.
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