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Old 08-15-2005, 07:44 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Wally
Ok I'll concede you may get a slight increase, but it will be negligable and there is actaully a case where the peak may actually reduce.



What's the larger throttle body going to do? Answer = reduce pressure drop of the throttle plate:- flow potential is going to increase by the square root of the reduction in drop. But, peak torque is where peak VE and BMEP are and at peak torque rpm your TB isn't WOT or is it?

What's the larger fuel pump going to do? Answer = increase available fuel flow, but only if needed:- once again flow is going to increase by the square root of the flow increase. Once again you aren't pumping as much fuel as the engine requires at max power so not much point increasing just to cater for torque.

Thicker head gasket is going to do what? Answer = lower your CR and if OHC retard the valve timing. This will actually drop your BMEP and thus torque.

Borla exhaust is doing what? Answer = flattening and lengthening your torque curve, increasing peak power rpm (maybe).

And you may notice that peak torque on the same engine tends to stay around the same rpm, regardless of increases because of air density, cam grinds, etc. While significant improvement in power is fairly easy, torque rarely increases by more than 20% with standard street performance mods. Does that tell you anything?

tells me you're one smart son of a gun

also, when i said thicker head gaskit, i meant thinner, i was just in a rush and didn't take any notice at all my bad.

so when it all comes down to it, having a slightly smaller t/b and thinner head gaskit could potentionally increase the torque?
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:49 AM   #17
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Increasing the compression ratio will increase torque. Bigger TBs will not necessarily increase torque peak, but will prolong better torque at higher revs because of better VE , but you will notice a drop in lower rpm range torque if you have a hairdryer and the TB is too big.

A bigger TB on a hairdryer will reduce pumping losses though.
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Old 08-15-2005, 11:12 PM   #18
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so, summing it down, the higher the c/r, the higher the torque?

how can you increase the length of your torque band? especially if it's only 500rpm long!! THAT'S NOTHING!! OMG!!!

this is all useful information
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:27 AM   #19
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1) The traffic cop in your engine is the camshaft. It is designed to meet the needs of engine geometry to deliver the goods.

2) If you think in extremes a tractor motor has some fairly evident differences in geometry compared to an F1 engine. What do you suppose they are? Can you imagine how many gears a road train would need if it had a high revving motor instead of a stump puller donk?

3) Intake and exhaust apparel will have some influence, but it is more titivation than actually getting to the guts of engine modification to improve performance.

4) Air density (ie mass flow), gas speed, sonics, displacement, clearance volumes, piston acceleration, piston speed, valve timing, valve sizing, stroke, bore, port sizing, etc all play on how much power is created at what rpm and thus the resultant pressure events in the pots and thus torque.

4a) mass flow increases via huffers and hairdryers will definitely improve your torque figure. When apllied to a standard N/A engine the increased VE will generally raise the peak torque rpm by a couple of hundred, but the significantly improved power will boost torque production significantly too.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
1) The traffic cop in your engine is the camshaft. It is designed to meet the needs of engine geometry to deliver the goods.

2) If you think in extremes a tractor motor has some fairly evident differences in geometry compared to an F1 engine. What do you suppose they are? Can you imagine how many gears a road train would need if it had a high revving motor instead of a stump puller donk?

3) Intake and exhaust apparel will have some influence, but it is more titivation than actually getting to the guts of engine modification to improve performance.

4) Air density (ie mass flow), gas speed, sonics, displacement, clearance volumes, piston acceleration, piston speed, valve timing, valve sizing, stroke, bore, port sizing, etc all play on how much power is created at what rpm and thus the resultant pressure events in the pots and thus torque.

4a) mass flow increases via huffers and hairdryers will definitely improve your torque figure. When apllied to a standard N/A engine the increased VE will generally raise the peak torque rpm by a couple of hundred, but the significantly improved power will boost torque production significantly too.

Wally! What the HELL did you just say??
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:40 AM   #21
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Matey, if you're going to walk the walk you really are going to have to learn English so you can bastardise it.

Reading books is a great way to improve your vocabulary and a keep your Websters handy.

Try here: http://dictionary.reference.com/
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:45 AM   #22
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should get a taurus
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:51 AM   #23
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should get a taurus

you're cool
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:54 AM   #24
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SHUT THE HELL UP YOU HORNY ASS GOTH SMOKER WEED EATER
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:56 AM   #25
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SHUT THE HELL UP YOU HORNY ASS GOTH SMOKER WEED EATER

thats awesome where do you come up with this stuff? you even got the smilies to flick me off. I think we should start a fan club for Ford Taurus
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Old 08-16-2005, 04:54 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORD TAURUS
should get a taurus


No thankyou, I owned one already and it wasn't up to scratch. The brochure power was overstated by a factor of ten IMHO.

Is it about bedtime for you now poppit? Go snuggle in and I'll be up to tuck you in shortly.
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:37 AM   #27
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No thankyou, I owned one already and it wasn't up to scratch. The brochure power was overstated by a factor of ten IMHO.

Is it about bedtime for you now poppit? Go snuggle in and I'll be up to tuck you in shortly.

pwn'd
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
1) The traffic cop in your engine is the camshaft. It is designed to meet the needs of engine geometry to deliver the goods.

2) If you think in extremes a tractor motor has some fairly evident differences in geometry compared to an F1 engine. What do you suppose they are? Can you imagine how many gears a road train would need if it had a high revving motor instead of a stump puller donk?

3) Intake and exhaust apparel will have some influence, but it is more titivation than actually getting to the guts of engine modification to improve performance.

4) Air density (ie mass flow), gas speed, sonics, displacement, clearance volumes, piston acceleration, piston speed, valve timing, valve sizing, stroke, bore, port sizing, etc all play on how much power is created at what rpm and thus the resultant pressure events in the pots and thus torque.

4a) mass flow increases via huffers and hairdryers will definitely improve your torque figure. When apllied to a standard N/A engine the increased VE will generally raise the peak torque rpm by a couple of hundred, but the significantly improved power will boost torque production significantly too.

beautiful wally... i actually understood half of what you said, was that knowledge, like.. off the top of your head.. or was a website used to help? cause some of that stuff is damn smart my friend.

so basically, the smoother the engine runs at higher speeds, the more torque will be produced, including a forced induction to the higher, smoother running speeds of the engine, will also increase torque significantly?, in other words, a turbo or supercharger on a perfect running engine will be the best way to gain high figures of torque?

because that's the impression i got.
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:49 AM   #29
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Mate I don't need the net, it's fairly easy stuff once you get over the mystique

Next item you can explore in relation to your smoothness statement

With force fed systems like turbochargers, there are less pressure differentials than with N/A, so there is less swing of inertial loads and therefore less inclination to stress internals. There is a larger pressure envelope (mean effective pressure), acting on the piston even though peak pressure should remain the same to avoid det. Obviously if there is a longer pressure acting on the piston before blowdown, the more effort is being put in and thus resultant force.

By lowering the compression ratio on a turbo engine you lower the expansion ratio which means you can force more volume in (more clearance volume available}. Expansion ratio is how much the gas can expand before the exhaust valve opens and is more or less directly proportional to compression ratio. On a N/A engine the combustion is fairly peaky and therefore has a fair amount of piston travel available to expand to zip pressure, thus a high expansion ratio results in poorer performance.

Knowing this, think how a long stroke, with a relatively small bore is going to behave compared to a large bore, small stroke.
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Old 08-16-2005, 07:03 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Mate I don't need the net, it's fairly easy stuff once you get over the mystique

Next item you can explore in relation to your smoothness statement

With force fed systems like turbochargers, there are less pressure differentials than with N/A, so there is less swing of inertial loads and therefore less inclination to stress internals. There is a larger pressure envelope (mean effective pressure), acting on the piston even though peak pressure should remain the same to avoid det. Obviously if there is a longer pressure acting on the piston before blowdown, the more effort is being put in and thus resultant force.

By lowering the compression ratio on a turbo engine you lower the expansion ratio which means you can force more volume in (more clearance volume available}. Expansion ratio is how much the gas can expand before the exhaust valve opens and is more or less directly proportional to compression ratio. On a N/A engine the combustion is fairly peaky and therefore has a fair amount of piston travel available to expand to zip pressure, thus a high expansion ratio results in poorer performance.

Knowing this, think how a long stroke, with a relatively small bore is going to behave compared to a large bore, small stroke.

understood completely.

so does that mean that with a rotary engine, since it moves slower (thus making it peak higher rpm) it'd be able to generate more exhaust fumes to create more boost quicker then a piston engine?

i'd love to learn alot more about rotary engines, what can you inform me on these?
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