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Old 01-26-2006, 03:13 PM   #1
jedimario
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Angry Hillary...

How does Hillary Rodham Clinton have any credibility with anyone at all?
This article was an inset to an article about Bushís visit to the NSA in my paper today, it's headline was-
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rock Hill Herald
Sen. Clinton criticizes domestic eavsdropping
Here's the article-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Fournier, The Associated Press
WASHINGTON-Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton called President Bush's explanations for eavesdropping on domestic conversations without warrants "strange" and "far-fetched" Wednesday in blistering criticism ahead of the president's State of the Union address.
"Obviously, I support tracking down terrorists. I think that's our obligation. But I think it can be done in a lawful way," the New York Democrat said. Clinton, a potential 2008 presidential candidate, told reporters she did not yet know whether the administration's eavesdropping without warrants broke any laws. But the senator said she did not buy the White House's main justification for the tactic.
Well hereís what I say about it.
Quote:
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton called President Bush's explanations for eavesdropping on domestic conversations without warrants "strange" and "far-fetched"
Hereís a quote from the article that this was inserted in-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedra Pickler, The Associated Press
After a tour of the National Security Agency, Bush said employees there who are secretly monitoring phone calls and Internet traffic are learning what terrorists are plotting.
So, it sounds like the NSA is eavesdropping on people in the country to find out what terrorists are up to. Whatís so strange and far-fetched about that Senator Clinton? I thought you said weíre obligated to track the terrorists down. Wait, you did. OK, I know you said weíre obligated to.

Moving along nowÖ

Quote:
Clinton, a potential 2008 presidential candidate, told reporters she did not yet know whether the administration's eavesdropping without warrants broke any laws.
Please, Senator, even I know that! They do not. Why? Even if there is some law that prohibits the government from eavesdropping on phone calls in the United States, this is war. There are no laws. We can kill people in war canít we? We can break things that donít belong to us in war canít we? Your problem is that you still havenít realized that this is war, we donít have to follow our laws! They donít apply! How can you be so naive??

Finally

Quote:
But the senator said she did not buy the White House's main justification for the tactic.
Yeah, cause Bush just wants to know whoís house youíre going to for that party Friday night so he can come crash it.

/endrant
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:05 PM   #2
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Kind of like Kerry, flip-flopping...sadly, I'd still probably vote for her (supposing I could vote), due to the first female president stuff
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by chris_knows
Kind of like Kerry, flip-flopping...sadly, I'd still probably vote for her (supposing I could vote), due to the first female president stuff
...it's like saying the Honda Insight is your favorite car because it was the first mass-market hybird in the US
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:47 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by jedimario
...it's like saying the Honda Insight is your favorite car because it was the first mass-market hybird in the US
That's why I don't vote...and because I can't, but it would be interesting, and probably better than the competition lol...
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:50 PM   #5
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sorry democrats. you're pretty much the largest mass of stupid people i've ever seen in my life. what's your motto? to hell with laws, unless it effects us. THENOMG, WENEEDLAWS. know what senator? i think you're afraid the nsa might just overhear a convo about how you're rigging the election or maybe even about those mysterious deaths in the white house during your term.
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princessklutz04
sorry democrats. you're pretty much the largest mass of stupid people i've ever seen in my life. what's your motto? to hell with laws, unless it effects us. THENOMG, WENEEDLAWS. know what senator? i think you're afraid the nsa might just overhear a convo about how you're rigging the election or maybe even about those mysterious deaths in the white house during your term.
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:40 PM   #7
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I agree with Sen. Clinton on the domestic eavesdropping. She's not saying she disagrees with using this method to track down terrorists, it seems like she just doens't want to give the gov't a carte blanche to monitor whoever they want in whatever way they see fit, or set a precedent of using this type of monitoring without restraint. Use the technology if we got it b/c tracking terrorists is a huge priority, but do it in a way that safeguards the privacy and freedom of average citizens. Succesful monitoring and protecting privacy are NOT mutually exclusive.
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:52 PM   #8
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It's easy to pass judgement when you aren't the one affected by it. Would you still feel the same way about the government if they had singled you out and thought you were a terrorist, simply because of your decent, your religeon, your skin color? Would you have felt the same way if they arrested you and questioned you for hours simply because they tapped into your phone conversations and you said something that they took to be a threat against the government (whether it be true or taken out of context)? I find it funny that they were so quick to impeach President Clinton, but President Bush has pretty much gotten away with murder and not a thing has been done. It was an immoral and corrupt way of going about it. They could have gotten permission, but chose not to because "I'm the president, I rule all, I govern all, I own all." It's time to stand up and tell your government this country was built on freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of religeon and freedom to live any damn way I choose to live without fear of reprimand. One day you will understand we ALL have rights in this country and the government chose to violate those rights.
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
It's easy to pass judgement when you aren't the one affected by it. Would you still feel the same way about the government if they had singled you out and thought you were a terrorist, simply because of your decent, your religeon, your skin color? Would you have felt the same way if they arrested you and questioned you for hours simply because they tapped into your phone conversations and you said something that they took to be a threat against the government (whether it be true or taken out of context)?

actually, no i wouldn't. i would appreciate the fact that they were trying to protect the country in which i chose to live. plus, if you aren't bashing america, then you don't need to worry about the government taking it as a threat to america. and i for one will not bash my country.

as for taken out of context? i highly doubt that would happen. if i'm on the phone talking to someone, i never say weird stuff that could be misconstrued to make one believe that i'm going to blow something up or kill someone. therefore, if these people are having innocent conversations as well, they have nothing to worry about.

one more thing: yes, there are plenty of whites aiding and abetting terrorism, but the MAJORITY (notice i didn't say all, but majority) ARE of middle eastern descent. therefore, doesn't it make SENSE to rule them out first? how do we find seriel killers? we profile. sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. but again, i'd rather be profiled then look up and see a plane headed for me.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:05 PM   #10
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The flip side of this for all you who think we must do whatever it takes to stop terrorists, what they are doing right now IS against the current law in the US, and can lead to actual suspects getting off the hook - this highlights the importance of coordinating our efforts with what is within legal bounds - or having a serious discussion about how we're going to change the law to help fight terrorism while protecting basic civil liberties.


Filing in case of two Albany Muslims says counts should be dismissed because NSA actions violated laws

By BRENDAN LYONS, Staff writer
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Tuesday, January 24, 2006

ALBANY -- An FBI sting case that targeted two members of an Albany mosque should be dismissed because the investigation originated from a national spying program that may be illegal, an attorney for one of the defendants said in a motion filed in U.S. District Court.

The challenge of the government's case against Yassin Aref and Mohammed Hossain, who are accused of taking part in a plot to sell missile launchers to terrorists, may force federal prosecutors, and a U.S. District judge, to address a national debate unfolding about whether the National Security Agency violated any laws by eavesdropping on U.S. residents.
...
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princessklutz04
actually, no i wouldn't. i would appreciate the fact that they were trying to protect the country in which i chose to live. plus, if you aren't bashing america, then you don't need to worry about the government taking it as a threat to america. and i for one will not bash my country.

as for taken out of context? i highly doubt that would happen. if i'm on the phone talking to someone, i never say weird stuff that could be misconstrued to make one believe that i'm going to blow something up or kill someone. therefore, if these people are having innocent conversations as well, they have nothing to worry about.

one more thing: yes, there are plenty of whites aiding and abetting terrorism, but the MAJORITY (notice i didn't say all, but majority) ARE of middle eastern descent. therefore, doesn't it make SENSE to rule them out first? how do we find seriel killers? we profile. sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. but again, i'd rather be profiled then look up and see a plane headed for me.

Easy to say you wouldn't mind as I can assume you are white, middle class and young. I doubt you would feel the same if you were of Middle Eastern decent.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princessklutz04
actually, no i wouldn't. i would appreciate the fact that they were trying to protect the country in which i chose to live. plus, if you aren't bashing america, then you don't need to worry about the government taking it as a threat to america. and i for one will not bash my country.

as for taken out of context? i highly doubt that would happen. if i'm on the phone talking to someone, i never say weird stuff that could be misconstrued to make one believe that i'm going to blow something up or kill someone. therefore, if these people are having innocent conversations as well, they have nothing to worry about.

one more thing: yes, there are plenty of whites aiding and abetting terrorism, but the MAJORITY (notice i didn't say all, but majority) ARE of middle eastern descent. therefore, doesn't it make SENSE to rule them out first? how do we find seriel killers? we profile. sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. but again, i'd rather be profiled then look up and see a plane headed for me.
The phone conversation thing I just won't stand for...I tend to talk about blowing stuff up, and burning stuff, and other illegal stuff, which even though I'm joking, the government might not know it...Like if I'm talking to a friend, and we get into talking about what kind of stupid video we should make (we've got about 30 minutes so far )...If we joke around about making a giant bomb from gas and throwing it somewhere, it's a joke, but I wouldn't feel comfortable if the government heard it
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:24 PM   #13
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I've heard some super sketchy stories. My friend's dad is Iranian and her mom is white, they had someone in an unofficial outfit come to their house to "check the meter" in the basement - not really thinking much of it, her mom let the dude in. From that day on their phone clicks twice when you pick it up. Their friends have had similar expereinces. They don't care b/c they have nothing to hide - but her dad has lived here for 30 years and is a prominent doctor, the only thing that would make him suspect is that he is Iranian, and he hasn't even been back since the revolution.

Ultimately they don't care b/c they have nothing to hide, but what is going on is arguably bigger than tapping "known suspects" phone. (Unless being from the middle east makes you a suspect)
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
It's easy to pass judgement when you aren't the one affected by it. Would you still feel the same way about the government if they had singled you out and thought you were a terrorist, simply because of your decent, your religeon, your skin color? Would you have felt the same way if they arrested you and questioned you for hours simply because they tapped into your phone conversations and you said something that they took to be a threat against the government (whether it be true or taken out of context)?
I think I answered YES to every one of those questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
I find it funny that they were so quick to impeach President Clinton, but President Bush has pretty much gotten away with murder and not a thing has been done. It was an immoral and corrupt way of going about it. They could have gotten permission, but chose not to because "I'm the president, I rule all, I govern all, I own all."
Permission? Permission from who? A bunch of idiots the sit on their big fat butts all day on internaltional ground in New York? Permission from the quite possibly the most corrupt organization in the history of mankind? One that we also happen to supply I think about 90% of EVERYTHING to. Yeah, we really need their permission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
It's time to stand up and tell your government this country was built on freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of religeon and freedom to live any damn way I choose to live without fear of reprimand. One day you will understand we ALL have rights in this country and the government chose to violate those rights.
Cause socialistc liberal policies and programs=freedom doesn't it? O wait that's right, socialism is the opposite of freedom smart one.
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Old 01-27-2006, 12:11 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by chris_knows
Kind of like Kerry, flip-flopping...sadly, I'd still probably vote for her (supposing I could vote), due to the first female president stuff

Thats got to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard you say.
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