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Old 07-25-2006, 06:22 PM   #1
Realista
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Angry What does look like to you Israel's assaults to the Lebanon?

In my opinion, Israel this one killing civil many people in the Lebanon.

It is not possible to compare the Islamic terrorism, with a nation so powerful as Israel.

For what USA not act? And for this. The Zionist power is so big in the World.

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Old 07-25-2006, 06:23 PM   #2
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Israel is destroying a threat to its citizen's safety. That's how I see, nothing else if you ask me. I think it's great what they're doing and that we (USA) could learn a lesson.
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Old 07-25-2006, 06:28 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jedimario
Israel is destroying a threat to its citizen's safety. That's how I see, nothing else if you ask me. I think it's great what they're doing and that we (USA) could learn a lesson.

The truth has been spoken!
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Old 07-25-2006, 06:32 PM   #4
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Were Iraq, Vietnam also threats?
North Korea, is not it now a threat?

Let's not forget that the Jews occupied a few areas that were not his.

Unfortunately, the Zionist power is very strong in the Government of Bush.

I want the peace.
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realista
Were Iraq, Vietnam also threats?
North Korea, is not it now a threat?

Let's not forget that the Jews occupied a few areas that were not his.

Unfortunately, the Zionist power is very strong in the Government of Bush.

I want the peace.

I think you don't know much about the history of the area. that area was ORIGINALLY Jewish, before Muslims existed, thousands of years ago. But more importantly, that area was under the control of the Turks and the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years. When the Turkish empire was defeated, the area was then owned by teh French and British. Before WWI, NONE Of the nations of the Middle East east of the Suez existed. NONE. They were all part of the Ottoman Empire. The league of nations (in the 1920) divided up the area of the Turkish Empire known as Palestine into a French controlled area Known as Syria) and a British controlled area (known as Palestine). The area called palestine then was mostly swamp.

The British altered that mandate in 1923, to create a Palestinian nation and a Jewish nation. The Palestinian nation was Transjordan, the Jewish nation was Palestine. After WWII the UN partitioned the land again. It was partitioned to match population concentrations, and to make as few people move from one place to the other as possible. Additionally, Jerusalem was an international city, available to all worshipers.

The day Israel, in full accord with the UN partition, declared its independence, it was attacked by all the surrounding Arab countries. It damn near lost and got wiped off the map. But it didn't. However, Jordan took over Jerusalem. From 1948 to 1967, Jews were not allowed to visit their most holy sites. They were not allowed into the city. Ancient Jewish grave stones were used by the Jordanian Army to build latrines along the Wailing Wall.


You're completely misinformed if you think that history started in '67 when Israel took BACK Gaza. . When Moshe Dayan entered Jerusalem one of the first things he did was order the control of the al Aqsa (sp?) Mosque returned to the Imams. From that time on Muslims were allowed in. Further, many Palestinians within Israel proper are Israeli citizens. In '73, the Arabs attacked again, once more intent upon the utter destruction of the Jewish State. They failed. Israel took the Sinai peninsula and both sides of the Canal. A few years later, when Egypt entered into a real peace treaty, it gave it back. If Hamas and Hezbollah put their guns down tommorow, the fighting would stop. If Israel put down their guns tommorow, there would be more rockets hitting Haifa. It's really that simple.

You see this as aggression by Israel and some Zionist force in charge of the Bush administration, merely for reserving the right to self defense! Hell, you seem to be applauding the idea of stripping from Israel, and only Israel, that right.

There were no Arab nations there before Israel was created, no Arab lands were taken to create Israel, and most of teh palestinians that are in the area descended from arabs/turks brought in during that time to have jobs reclaiming the land (much of it was swampy), and would not have been in the area had not the nation of Israel been created there.

Israel has been defending itself against attacks since it was created, even though, as a nation, it NEVER was the cause of the problem, nor did Israel as a nation take anything from anyone until AFTER it was attacked in '48.

And EVERY time it has backed off and done exactly what the UN asks of it, it gets attacked AGAIN.

Israel basically did exactly what had been demanded of them for so long, when they pulled out of Gaza. And what did this act of appeasement do? It emboldened the terrorists, and not much else. It made them figure that Israel was weak, and it caused them to act even more aggressively. Of course, a whole hell of a lot of us have been pointing out how blindingly obvious the results of "negotiating" and "peace talks" are when one side is blindly bent on annihilating the other, and is obviously not an honest broker.

The world is finally beginning to wake up and are no longer acting with instant anti-Israeli sentiment every time they look at the conflict. They're finally realizing - as if there weren't enough historical lessons to make it obvious - that APPEASEMENT DOESN'T WORK, and all it does is postpone the military conflict and usually makes it worse than it would've been otherwise. And they're finally waking up to the fact that the Palestinians may not be the poor anguished victims of Western civilization they've fantasized all along.

Israel is NOT the problem!
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realista
In my opinion, Israel this one killing civil many people in the Lebanon.

It is not possible to compare the Islamic terrorism, with a nation so powerful as Israel.

For what USA not act? And for this. The Zionist power is so big in the World.

Regards:
Realista.
1. You seem, like many liberals and non-Jewish middle easterners, to be overlooking a few facts. Who is is for years that has been dropping bombs across the border into Isreal while breaking UN sanctions to do so? Who is it who has gone across the border into Isreal to kidnap military AND civlian personell? Who is it that has made it very clear that their objective is to wipe Ireal ans all Jews off the map? If you answered Lebanon and more specifically Hezbollah, you would be correct.

2. Let's look quickly at another assertion of yours. There are approximately 1.3 billion Islamists in the world, yet there are only 14 million Judaists. How do you propose that "the Zionist power is so big"? The numbers just don't add up.

3. Why is it that the "government of Bush" is to blame? Why is it the job of the USA to make everything right... As long as in doing so you get what you want?
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:36 PM   #7
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If the Hezbolla didn't put it's military operations in Civilian centers, if they didn't use civilians as a sheild, there would be far fewer civilan casualties. Israel COULD just carpet bomb them, but they are specifically attacking Hezbolla and Hamas military personnel. At the very least the IDF is attempting to minimize civilian casualties as opposed to Hezbolla and Hamas with their unguided rocket and mortar attacks.
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
If the Hezbolla didn't put it's military operations in Civilian centers, if they didn't use civilians as a sheild, there would be far fewer civilan casualties. Israel COULD just carpet bomb them, but they are specifically attacking Hezbolla and Hamas military personnel. At the very least the IDF is attempting to minimize civilian casualties as opposed to Hezbolla and Hamas with their unguided rocket and mortar attacks.
Wait a minute buddy. You're dealing in facts. We can't have that in this thread. Are you part of the Zionist power?
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:46 PM   #9
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The most interesting part of conspiracy theory is that, if you agree with the conspiracy theory, it's more proof to the theorist it exists. If you DISAGREE with it, you're part of it, and proof that it exists. Can't win no matter what.

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Old 07-25-2006, 07:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
The most interesting part of conspiracy theory is that, if you agree with the conspiracy theory, it's more proof to the theorist it exists. If you DISAGREE with it, you're part of it, and proof that it exists. Can't win no matter what.

Isn't that the same as every conspiracy theory though? Did you know it was also the Bush administration that planned and executed the destruction of the World Trade Center? I think they may have been responsible for WWII as well.
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Old 07-25-2006, 08:00 PM   #11
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Invaders.

The surveys, they say that the Europeans we are more near the Palestinian reason. Israel takes advantage of the weakness of other countries.

In any case, USA and Israel produce many weapon, have to give them exit. Not? Now, are not communists so bad? Egypt, Syria seran the close ones in attacking? Are Lybia and Gadafi allied now?

Al-Qaeda will not be late in acting, producing mas deaths and chaos.


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Old 07-25-2006, 08:20 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Realista
The surveys, they say that the Europeans we are more near the Palestinian reason. Israel takes advantage of the weakness of other countries.

Israel has only responded to attacks since 1948. What part of that is not clear? Israel BACKED OUT OF GAZA, like all the peace lovers wanted. As soon as they did that, THEY WERE ATTACKED AGAIN. Israel is not the cause of the problem.

This latest round looks like a new Arab tactic, however. This whole asymmetrical warfare thing -- forget about trying to defeat Israel militarily. The Arab world tried that 3 times and failed miserably. So that's out. Instead, fight it with guerilla/insurgent/terrorist tactics. Set up proxy groups with loose ties to the states sponsoring, so plausible deniability can be claimed, and the useful idiots can persist in their delusions. Make the fighters indistinguishable from civilians. Carry out the battle from civilian locations, target civilians, use civilians as human shields. Force Israel (or whatever oppressive power you're fighting) to retaliate in a blind rage, force them to inflict civilian casualties, and mobilize the international community, UN, etc. to step in and stop them. Meanwhile, you take a breather, resupply, and blend back in among the civilians, only to re-emerge later.
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Old 07-25-2006, 08:24 PM   #13
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And all this shows what real Islam is all about. They hate the Jews because they aren't Muslim, that's why they keep attacking if you ask me.
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:48 PM   #14
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I think there are a myriad of reasons people outside the Arab sphere harbour a resentment for the Jews.

Historically they have taken control of business enterprise, e.g. even way back when Jacob and Joseph cast their eyes on the Egyptian grain stores.

They tend to be seen as money driven and the example of Jesus giving the money lenders the rounds for using the temple as a counting house is a powerful image.

The refusal to acknowledge Jesus as the mesiah and new testament references to their fall from God's grace

Throughout the the middle ages Kings financed their armies by lending from the Jewish bankers at the expense of the peasants and lords.

Plays like the Merchant of Venice make no bones about the propensity for wealth creation regardless of physical suffering, no matter how absurd.

Profiteering post WWI in Germany and it's environs at the expense of struggling citizens. This resentment was compounded when, post WWII, the USA were seen to be profiting the same way with Jewish businessmen at the helm.

Control of the western film, media and entertainment industry and the obvious bias

The strong presence within the judiciary.

Similar influence in the political machines.


Of course there are many more real and fabricated reasons people are wary of the Jews, but the bottom line is that millions view them as untrustworthy, disingenuous, opportunistic, cunning, manipulative, etc. This doesn't bode well for the vast majority of their culture who are probably hard working Mr amd Mrs average that would have the rug pulled from under them by a wealthy Jew just as quickly as anyone else.

Unfortunately, far from being a utopia, Zion is viewed with skeptisism by many. I would suspect the Arabs view it as country with foundations of subterfuge and opportunism, with as much legitimacy as the Celts demanding reappropriation of their original lands around Austria.

Personally I see the whole middle east as one of the original melting pots under Roman rule and much to my delight genetic testing by The National Gepgraphic in the region showed very few of the current inhabitants are residing in the place their ancestors a few thousand years ago were.
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Old 07-26-2006, 02:29 AM   #15
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i believe Isarael are right in doing what they are doing!

like ChrisV says "Israel has only responded to attacks since 1948. What part of that is not clear? Israel BACKED OUT OF GAZA, like all the peace lovers wanted. As soon as they did that, THEY WERE ATTACKED AGAIN. Israel is not the cause of the problem."
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