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Old 04-17-2004, 06:30 PM   #46
lunatic987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Listen up class. Today if you understand this lesson you graduate from 1st grade.

#1 notice the "spark" is called a flame kernel. I wonder why...OH YEAH. I know why. Thats why were here.


#2 heat and gas ionization caused by the electrical energy of the spark

Energy is not create or distroyed. It is converted. Electrical energy CAN NOT DO CRAP towards igniting fuel. When it jumps the gap the electrical energy is CONVERTED to heat. That ignites the fuel.


If you understand this class, you then can move on. Otherwise....

You said a spark is heat, now you say it's electrical energy. Make up your mind. lmao.

Your quoting what we are saying, yet getting a slightly different interpretation. Get this. Heat is not electricity. Electricity can create heat. Incandescent and Flourescent light bulbs both create heat. Just incandescent is a better heater than a light producer. A toaster is another example. Electricity does end up heating up the medium it is traveling through. I'm not arguing that fact.

you need to read this. It's from a page explaining the point to platinum plugs::

"Another issue that plug manufacturers talk about is "unshrouding" the spark so it has a better opportunity to ignite the fuel mixture. Opening up the spark also means the flame kernel it creates can expand more rapidly and evenly inside the combustion chamber, reducing the chance of the flame kernel being quenched and a misfire occurring."

now, a spark is not a flame kernel. A spark is not heat. It is electrical energy. The electrical energy goes through the air/fuel mixture causing it to begin the combustion process. Yes heat is created. But quit calling the spark Heat or the flame kernel. Electricity is NOT heat. Electricity is not Flame. Yes it is all forms of energy.
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Old 04-17-2004, 08:34 PM   #47
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Alrighty, sitting here eating pizza and I though of something to sink everylast one of you. Tell me how a cigarette lighter works. The kind you buy at a gas station for about a buck.






Thought so.
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Old 04-17-2004, 08:38 PM   #48
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Now, tell me, how does the lighter create a flame by the spark? There is no "electrical energy" there. Don't say im comparing apples and oranges, thats bull. It's the heat from the spark. Always is
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Old 04-17-2004, 08:46 PM   #49
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Electricity does end up heating up the medium it is traveling through. I'm not arguing that fact.



Actually yes it does, it's from resistance.
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Old 04-17-2004, 08:52 PM   #50
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A spark is VERY VERY hot. It is heat. Someone asked how come you cannot feel the burn, it's like this. How quickly is a spark there, and then not there? VERY VERY FAST. Just like that, it's there then its gone. You don't feel the burn because of the speed. Touch a hot peice of something very quickly, you wont feel it. Leave it on there and you definately will. Do the same with a flame. Run your hand through a flame right quick, nothing. Hold it in there - yikes.



Basically I'm sick of losers spewing bull and then blaming me for spewing the bull.
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Old 04-17-2004, 09:53 PM   #51
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a good apark will burnn you too - ask a lightning strike victim
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Old 04-17-2004, 09:55 PM   #52
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my Quote:
Electricity does end up heating up the medium it is traveling through. I'm not arguing that fact.

your quote:
Actually yes it does, it's from resistance.

wtf are you arguing???? I said YES it heats up the medium it is traveling through. Then you say Actually yes it does..... Read what is posted before arguing with it.


Now, as for sparks.... read this then I will make a distinction in 2 types of sparks

"If you strike iron or steel with flint, the flint flakes off tiny particles of iron. The force of the blow and the friction it creates actually ignites the iron, and it burns rapidly to form Fe3O4. The sparks that you see are the hot specks of iron burning!" http://people.howstuffworks.com/flintlock2.htm

Now, those sparks are specks of iron that are burning. Burning something produces . That's not an electrical spark. The spark in a spark plug is an electrical spark. That's Electrons moving from one side to the other. Maybe thinking of it this way will help. Heat is basically the atoms vibrating and moving.

"For example, in the case of a gas like air, the molecules of gas are all free from each other, and they're all flying around smacking into each other at high speed. If you put more energy into this mixture, the atoms will move faster. In other words, heat energy is nothing more than the kinetic energy in the hot material. "
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Old 04-17-2004, 10:07 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaxleyjr
a good apark will burnn you too - ask a lightning strike victim


yes you can get burned. Because it heats you and the air around it up. By quite a bit. Not because the spark is heat, though. An electrical spark is NOT heat.
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Old 04-18-2004, 01:32 AM   #54
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**** it - your hopeless.
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Old 04-18-2004, 01:34 AM   #55
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Oh yeah,
Quote:
The sparks that you see are the hot specks of iron burning!"
Why does the burning flint ignite the lighter? ( heat, heat. )
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Old 04-18-2004, 07:43 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
**** it - your hopeless.


I'm hopeless because I know that electricity is not heat? how about this. Go talk to a real expert, not just searching websites, because as you should know, you can't believe everything you read, especially online.
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Old 04-18-2004, 07:58 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Oh yeah, Why does the burning flint ignite the lighter? ( heat, heat. )


You were comparing the spark of a spark plug to the 'sparks' that you see coming from flint on steel. those 'sparks' are burning flecks of iron. That is beyond apples and oranges. your comparing apples and pickles. By the arguments you present, the person that poured gas on the coals should have been toast. It took something that burnt at 451 to provide the energy needed to ignite the gas.

spark1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spärk)
n.
1 An incandescent particle, especially:
One thrown off from a burning substance.
One resulting from friction.
One remaining in an otherwise extinguished fire; an ember.
OR
2 A flash of light, especially a flash produced by electric discharge.
3 A short pulse or flow of electric current.


Flint lighter is 1. Spark plug is 3.
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Old 04-18-2004, 09:00 AM   #58
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Amazing... according to what I just asked, hot coals are at 1600 degrees Celsius. Ok, even accounting for a loss of temperature that should still ignite gas correct? Oddly enough that person was not toast.... Long complicated reason why, we'll give up on that for now ok? You said that a spark is heat. If an electrical spark is heat then why can't we use all the heat we produce to create electricity since your calling them the same thing?

As someone I mentioned this to today said. "A spark is a spark. Heat is Heat."

Read this closely:

"Heat is thermal energy that's flowing from one object to another because of a temperature difference between those two objects. Whenever an object contains thermal energy--which it always does--the atoms and molecules in that object are jittering about microscopically. Each atom or molecule isn't completely stationary; instead it is vibrating back and forth, and pushing or pulling on its neighbors. The object's thermal energy is the sum of the tiny kinetic and potential energies of those atoms and molecules as they move back and forth (kinetic energy), and push or pull on one another (potential energy). The hotter an object is, the more thermal energy each of its atoms has, on average, so this thermal energy tends to flow to a colder object when you touch the two objects together. When that thermal energy is flowing from the hotter object to the colder object, we call it "heat.""

Now, first sentence completely rules out a spark as heat. the difference between the gap is a charge difference. One side is positive, the other negative. Not a temperature difference. Now, to restate to eliminate confusion and in a way we are all saying the same thing. the spark provides the energy needed to activate the reaction. I am not saying heat does not ignite gas. If I did it's obvious I would be wrong. As stated, cigarette lighters prove that. But an electrical spark is not heat. Heat is produced in what the spark is 'traveling' through, but the spark is not heat. You need to understand that fact.
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Old 04-18-2004, 12:07 PM   #59
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Ok OK I think weve run this into the ground -
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