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Old 09-22-2008, 09:58 PM   #1
NoiseInc
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Car`s Date Of Birth

First of all excuse my English... I`m living in Belarus, it`s rather far from English-speaking countries))

Well, I was surfing through the ebay.com and saw lots of old american cars (restyled). Their price is not really high (6000-7000USD) for a pretty Ford Mustangs (1969-1972)... And those cars are rare things on our streets. Is it real? Are they popular in USA?

So, could you please tell me is it possible to change the year of creation (or birth, I don`t know =), for example from 1969 to a current year (I mean legally, cause the engine is fully changed)... I am asking the question because we have very high boarding taxes (2 euro for 1 cl, so 5000 x 2 euro = 10000euro) for cars that older than 14 years, and there is no sense to buy such car.... When the tax orice for 2007 car is about 0.7 euro...
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:38 AM   #2
dvdrose18
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The age of a car is in the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). In the vehicles you are speaking of, it is not difficult to change the VIN, however, it is not very legal. I am sure there are some loop holes somewhere allowing you to basically replace the whole car except for the VIN, especially considering that places like Mustangs Unlimited and others sell "complete body shells" but I am sure that either it will be cheaper to pay the taxes, or it will be completely illegal, and not worth the risk of getting caught.

Of course you could just buy the $15,000.00 body shell and make it fit the rolling chassis of your choice.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdrose18
The age of a car is in the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). In the vehicles you are speaking of, it is not difficult to change the VIN, however, it is not very legal. I am sure there are some loop holes somewhere allowing you to basically replace the whole car except for the VIN, especially considering that places like Mustangs Unlimited and others sell "complete body shells" but I am sure that either it will be cheaper to pay the taxes, or it will be completely illegal, and not worth the risk of getting caught.

Of course you could just buy the $15,000.00 body shell and make it fit the rolling chassis of your choice.
Here's a thought. Before breaking out the old typing gloves and giving an answer, why don't you make sure you have at least some of the facts instead of just blathering on? In no particular order;

1. VIN's do not and never have specifically contained a code, letter or number indicating the date of manufacture. All they do is indicate the model year of the vehicle. (See #4)

2. It is not difficult to change the VIN number on any vehicle, so your statement is just fluff. It is also completely legal (in the US) to change the VIN under certain circumstances. (See #4)

3. When did you become an expert in vehicle titling, registration and licensing in Belarus? You don’t even seem to have a grasp of how it works in the US.

4. VIN numbers didn’t even exist before 1979-1980, which is more recently than the car he’d like to import. Prior to that they were simply called the car’s “serial number”.

5. How exactly is he supposed to take a Rustang body shell and “make it fit the rolling chassis of his choice”? Mustangs are unibody cars and have no chassis. And even if he could do that, it wouldn’t be a Mustang, it’d be a “insert name here” with a Mustang body.

It’s quite apparent that I don’t spend enough time on this forum anymore. Perhaps you’ve never read my magic words to forum happiness. So just for you.

Think, type, submit.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:54 AM   #4
dvdrose18
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Looks like it is finally my turn to feal the wrath of the Hobo Lets see if I can't give a descent response...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Here's a thought. Before breaking out the old typing gloves and giving an answer, why don't you make sure you have at least some of the facts instead of just blathering on? In no particular order;
I will admit, it was late, or should I say early, when I replied to this thread after a long hard day of school and work, so my brain wasn't entirely awake, and I will admit, now that I read my post over, it doesn't exactly say what I wanted it to say. (and I forgot to add my customary disclaimer, maybe I should make it part of my signature)
Quote:
1. VIN's do not and never have specifically contained a code, letter or number indicating the date of manufacture. All they do is indicate the model year of the vehicle. (See #4)
I do believe, but I may be wrong, that for tax reasons, like the OP is asking about, it is the model year that they are concerned about, not the date of manufacture, which is indicated by the VIN.

Quote:
2. It is not difficult to change the VIN number on any vehicle, so your statement is just fluff. It is also completely legal (in the US) to change the VIN under certain circumstances. (See #4)
Most modern vehicles, or should I say vehicles that I have ever looked closely at, have the VIN stamped into the frame and other places to help deter theft. I also was trying to explain in my third sentence that I am sure there are some circumstances under which it would be legal. But I would imagine, again, I don't know, just using logic, that it would not be legal to change a VIN for the purpose of tax evasion.

Quote:
3. When did you become an expert in vehicle titling, registration and licensing in Belarus? You don’t even seem to have a grasp of how it works in the US.


Quote:
4. VIN numbers didn’t even exist before 1979-1980, which is more recently than the car he’d like to import. Prior to that they were simply called the car’s “serial number”.
While incorrectly, most people still refer to them as VINs.

Quote:
5. How exactly is he supposed to take a Rustang body shell and “make it fit the rolling chassis of his choice”? Mustangs are unibody cars and have no chassis. And even if he could do that, it wouldn’t be a Mustang, it’d be a “insert name here” with a Mustang body.
I, as a person who is looking to replace the rocker panels on a 65, know very well that they are unibody cars. However, I saw on another forum a while ago (can't find the link right now) that there is a company that makes a rolling chassis specifically for these cars. From what I understand he wants to replace the engine with a modern engine. While I am not a fabricator, I would imagine that it would be easier to make a Mustang looking body fit a chassis, than go through the trouble of finding a legal way to change the serial number, and then putting a new engine in it. Also, most mustangs that can be had for cheep on ebay need significant work before they are road worthy and look good.

Quote:
It’s quite apparent that I don’t spend enough time on this forum anymore. Perhaps you’ve never read my magic words to forum happiness. So just for you.

Think, type, submit.
Thanks, as I said before, it was late, brain was tired. Speaking of not spending enough time here, how is your mother-in-law?

For some more easy reading:
Quote:
18 USCS § 2321

TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I. CRIMES
CHAPTER 113. STOLEN PROPERTY

18 USCS § 2321 (2003)

§ 2321. Trafficking in certain motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts

(a) Whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:45 PM   #5
NoiseInc
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Thank you for answering.

well, I see that my idea is almost failed. I don`t want to break the law, of course. My question was caused by the fact that there is no sense to spend 20 000 - 22 000 USD for an old Mustang, even when I really like them, just because cost of details (repair) will be very high (we dont have them in the markets, so the only way is to buy it in the USA)... But the main problem that spending 20-22k we have a big choice in our country, for example Ford Mustang 2006 with all taxes.

So, I just wanted ti know if it is possible to buy it for 12-14k totally...

What concernes the packs "DIY your own FM", it doesnt work in our country, because there is no way to recieve documents and state number for such car...

So there is the only question: Is it possible that restyled car age could be changed by Ford company or something like that... I realise that my question might be silly, but this makes more than 100% economy on taxes.))
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:36 PM   #6
marcuz29
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No need to blame him. It might be due to his work and studies that he was not completely able to edit or post the complete details. Everyone can make a mistake that we can learn from it.
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