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View Poll Results: What would you do?
Give up 3 33.33%
Go mad like I have 2 22.22%
Give it a shot 4 44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-20-2004, 08:54 AM   #1
maiolo99
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Question This even has NPR's Click and Clack brothers stumped...

This problem, which may seem small and insignificant at first glance, has stumped 5 local mechanics and has even got NPR's Click and Click brothers unsure of what to do on 2 of September's shows. The problemm which started over 2 years ago, has basically become a shrouded unsolved mystery for my Gold 1992 Nissan Sentra 1.6 L XE which I will not let rest with untill it is resolved.

Here is the problem:

- Quite Simply, the car will not start when the engine is below roughly 50 degrees F.
- Just about EVERYTHING has been checked, double checked, changed and/or swapped on the car and still nothing. This includes (in no specific order or reason) the fuel pump, starter, fuel filter, distributor, ignition wires, spark plugs, every sensor known to science, oil, oil filter, air filter, gas, primary gas tank, secondary gas tank, fuel injector, altenator, battery, full exhaust, and basically anything else that has anything to do with prohibiting a car from starting.
- There are three different ways to eventially start the car in sub 50 temps. 1-Add Ether into Air intake before starting and it will almost instantly start up with a very high rev. 2-Poor hot water over engine block/valve cover (real good for car by the way), and 3-Crank the starter for about 20-30 secs while catching the gas peddle just at the right moment (this is perhaps better than regular oil changes) This method however will only work on the 50 F border line and anything 40 F and below will just let the starter crank for ever with no sign of anything.
- Once the car starts it has absolutely no problem running and drives like a dream. The car will continue to start absolutely perfectly for about 4-5 hours after it has been shut off and will not restart untill the engine has completely cooled down again below the 50 F.

I purchased a 1994 Nissan Sentra off E-Bay that was in 100% working order and pulled every part possible from the car so I would have a good base to start swapping more parts. Obviously by me buying the '94 Sentra, the point is no longer getting the car to work because I need it but rather has become more like an unsolvable rubick's cube that has every mechanic and mechanics friend I know stumped.

Please respond with the best advice you can give and I will use whatever I can from the 1994 Sentra to go to work. If anyone would like pics of either the 94 Nissan or 92 Nissan let me know as I have an extensive collection brewing for both cars.
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Old 11-20-2004, 03:44 PM   #2
DodgeRida67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maiolo99
This problem, which may seem small and insignificant at first glance, has stumped 5 local mechanics and has even got NPR's Click and Click brothers unsure of what to do on 2 of September's shows. The problemm which started over 2 years ago, has basically become a shrouded unsolved mystery for my Gold 1992 Nissan Sentra 1.6 L XE which I will not let rest with untill it is resolved.

Here is the problem:

- Quite Simply, the car will not start when the engine is below roughly 50 degrees F.
- Just about EVERYTHING has been checked, double checked, changed and/or swapped on the car and still nothing. This includes (in no specific order or reason) the fuel pump, starter, fuel filter, distributor, ignition wires, spark plugs, every sensor known to science, oil, oil filter, air filter, gas, primary gas tank, secondary gas tank, fuel injector, altenator, battery, full exhaust, and basically anything else that has anything to do with prohibiting a car from starting.
- There are three different ways to eventially start the car in sub 50 temps. 1-Add Ether into Air intake before starting and it will almost instantly start up with a very high rev. 2-Poor hot water over engine block/valve cover (real good for car by the way), and 3-Crank the starter for about 20-30 secs while catching the gas peddle just at the right moment (this is perhaps better than regular oil changes) This method however will only work on the 50 F border line and anything 40 F and below will just let the starter crank for ever with no sign of anything.
- Once the car starts it has absolutely no problem running and drives like a dream. The car will continue to start absolutely perfectly for about 4-5 hours after it has been shut off and will not restart untill the engine has completely cooled down again below the 50 F.

I purchased a 1994 Nissan Sentra off E-Bay that was in 100% working order and pulled every part possible from the car so I would have a good base to start swapping more parts. Obviously by me buying the '94 Sentra, the point is no longer getting the car to work because I need it but rather has become more like an unsolvable rubick's cube that has every mechanic and mechanics friend I know stumped.

Please respond with the best advice you can give and I will use whatever I can from the 1994 Sentra to go to work. If anyone would like pics of either the 94 Nissan or 92 Nissan let me know as I have an extensive collection brewing for both cars.


I'm betting there is nothing particularly mysterious about the problem with your car as it may seem. The problem most likely is the people you had "diagnose" the problem(s). I can almost be sure of that. All those parts changed, and no fix. Yeah, that's the problem. Hopefully if today is my lucky day, and yours, I can lead you in the right direction to get this thing really diagnosed.


Looking at the parts list of some(all?) of the things that were replaced, they seemed to replace fuel related parts the most. I counted 5. Fuel pump, Gas tanks (what the...), Fuel Filter, Fuel Injector. Also, you said hitting the gas pedal at the right time &...bingo. It fires up. And this tidbit "Add Ether into Air intake before starting and it will almost instantly start up with a very high rev." I'm going to start with the fuel related things.


Disregarding a few things you said, such as pouring hot water on the block helps to get it started, I'm going to suggest something that has come to mind. Alot has been changed, and although this doesn't exactly fit all the things you said, the fuel pump relay comes to my mind. I think you should test it. I realize this is not a very likely cause, but it's slighty possible and therefor I'd like to get it out of the equation.

Just a note... Since your car runs fine once it is started, that rules out alot. It just about brings it down to fuel and/or spark. In that case, I don't see where the big trouble lies in the diagnoses. If there is anymore information you can post, post it.

Last edited by DodgeRida67 : 11-20-2004 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 11-20-2004, 08:12 PM   #3
maiolo99
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Exclamation fuel pump relay coming up...

I am out to check the fuel pump relay- it is raining, but not too bad. I will check back in when I know more. I will also take pics of everything I do so you can follow along. UPDATE!- I just put together a basic picture webiste so you can follow along with what is going on: http://www.nissan.hopto.org/

Last edited by maiolo99 : 11-20-2004 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Website Update...
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Old 11-20-2004, 09:17 PM   #4
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Website Update

Just in case the edit did not show up- here is the website: http://www.nissan.hopto.org/ ... Sorry if you have to read this twice
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Old 11-21-2004, 03:36 AM   #5
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Id like to have this car for 5 hrs...bring it to me. lol

compression...you have forged pistons? They tend to shrink out when its cold, even worse all that cranking and injecting fuel into the cyliders causes something called a wash out. It lowers the compression even more. Check your compression when its cold out, it will suck, but do it anyways. Then add oil through the spark plug holes and check it again. Does it raise a lot? Cheap ass forged pistons may be the cause, when they heat up, and it dont take long, they expand and fit the cyliders again. Oh, and when you check your compression, disable the fuel pump, dont let the motor flood, k. Sounds like a rotary...lol.
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Old 11-21-2004, 03:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
compression...you have forged pistons? They tend to shrink out when its cold, even worse all that cranking and injecting fuel into the cyliders causes something called a wash out. It lowers the compression even more. Check your compression when its cold out, it will suck, but do it anyways. Then add oil through the spark plug holes and check it again. Does it raise a lot? Cheap ass forged pistons may be the cause, when they heat up, and it dont take long, they expand and fit the cyliders again. Oh, and when you check your compression, disable the fuel pump, dont let the motor flood, k. Sounds like a rotary...lol.


You'd like to have it for 5 hours? Come on now, you could f*ck it up sooner than that.

Thanks for trying, but please, don't try again.

Great, another idiot on these forums.

Last edited by DodgeRida67 : 11-21-2004 at 03:41 AM.
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Old 11-21-2004, 03:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
compression...you have forged pistons? They tend to shrink out when its cold, even worse all that cranking and injecting fuel into the cyliders causes something called a wash out. It lowers the compression even more. Check your compression when its cold out, it will suck, but do it anyways. Then add oil through the spark plug holes and check it again. Does it raise a lot? Cheap ass forged pistons may be the cause, when they heat up, and it dont take long, they expand and fit the cyliders again. Oh, and when you check your compression, disable the fuel pump, dont let the motor flood, k. Sounds like a rotary...lol.
DR67 hit the nail on the head with this one. "Cheap ass forged pistons". Please enlighten us all as to why you said those ignorant words. You sir are a moron.
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Old 11-21-2004, 03:55 AM   #8
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Its easy to judge my response because maybe i have 3 posts. Maybe they assume you havnt done enough of the obvious fixes. Read the replies these guys make on this and other threads and we will judge their personalities. I am reaching for the more complicated theory as i have faith you have done everything else. Just check it, its free, and easy. Oh, and this has happened before, im a newbie here, but not in the real world. OK.
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Old 11-21-2004, 03:57 AM   #9
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Oh geez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PM from hi.alt.perform
ahhahaha, my god you have wonderful manners...watch what happens. It was a take a shot poll and this conclusion has been seen before.....thanks for your reply.


If you have something to say, please say it where others can see.

Take a shot poll? No. That conclusion has been seen before? Are you trying to tell me that your diagnosis has been used before?


So lets see. 2 posts and I got a lot of information about you.

#1. You are an Idiot.
#2. You are full of sh*t.
#3. You avoid confrontation.
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Old 11-21-2004, 03:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
Its easy to judge my response because maybe i have 3 posts. Maybe they assume you havnt done enough of the obvious fixes. Read the replies these guys make on this and other threads and we will judge their personalities. I am reaching for the more complicated theory as i have faith you have done everything else. Just check it, its free, and easy. Oh, and this has happened before, im a newbie here, but not in the real world. OK.
"Cheap ass forged pistons" is your version of a more complicated theory? I think you misspelled that and meant to type incomprehensible or perhaps clueless theory.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:08 AM   #11
maiolo99
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Question Compression...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
compression...you have forged pistons? They tend to shrink out when its cold, even worse all that cranking and injecting fuel into the cyliders causes something called a wash out. It lowers the compression even more. Check your compression when its cold out, it will suck, but do it anyways. Then add oil through the spark plug holes and check it again. Does it raise a lot? Cheap ass forged pistons may be the cause, when they heat up, and it dont take long, they expand and fit the cyliders again. Oh, and when you check your compression, disable the fuel pump, dont let the motor flood, k. Sounds like a rotary...lol.

I do not have a screw in type compression gauge for a good reading, but before I buy one (I know they are cheap), why would it start up so well with ether in the air intake before starting if the pistons are too big/warped for the fuel/air mixture to move them alone at all? I know ether has more "kick", but once the car gets the ether it starts right up and immediatly runs fine. If it truly were the pistons, wouldnt it run hard untill the engine warmed up? And, lets assume compression was an issue and a teaspoon of oil upped the compression, indicating a bad ring or bore, again wouldn't the car accelerate poorly or something else indicating poor compression? This car runs like a dream once it goes. I am not saying you are wrong - I will check it out- but first tell me if I am crazy for being sceptical of a piston issue. I will need to buy a compression gauge too at autozone....
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:09 AM   #12
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Hummm

I feel terrible, this thread is for advice not us arguing amongst ourselves. Id send another private but they would show it anyways. So ill argue here. I sent a mess. to vw, forged pistons expand and contract a lot. The cheaper forged pistons do more of this. On an old motor with ring and wall wear, compression may be an issue. Insufficient compression=no start. I assume you really have replaced everything except the short block....hummm? By-the-way although nothing could be ruled out, why dont you guys explain why a relay will not work until the car is started?? And after its warmed up it works fine? Maybe, and i hope so, easy fix. But i would have to assume even the most back yard mechanic has checked fuel pressure and spark when it still doesnt start. Making sense yet? Oh, and ether starts it, only way i know to get a low compression motor to start or even try to run.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maiolo99
I do not have a screw in type compression gauge for a good reading, but before I buy one (I know they are cheap), why would it start up so well with ether in the air intake before starting if the pistons are too big/warped for the fuel/air mixture to move them alone at all? I know ether has more "kick", but once the car gets the ether it starts right up and immediatly runs fine. If it truly were the pistons, wouldnt it run hard untill the engine warmed up? And, lets assume compression was an issue and a teaspoon of oil upped the compression, indicating a bad ring or bore, again wouldn't the car accelerate poorly or something else indicating poor compression? This car runs like a dream once it goes. I am not saying you are wrong - I will check it out- but first tell me if I am crazy for being sceptical of a piston issue. I will need to buy a compression gauge too at autozone....
Correct, correct and correct. No you are not crazy. Finally ley me say it for you. He's wrong, at least on this point.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
why dont you guys explain why a relay will not work until the car is started?? And after its warmed up it works fine?


As I said, it is not very likely. Why won't it work UNTIL it's started? I guess you didn't stop to think it works and THEN it starts.


BUT, as I said, several times, it is not very likely, I just want it ruled out of the equation.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:18 AM   #15
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ok, free then

ok, better yet, let it get cold, take out the plugs, pour in some oil, then reinstall them and try to start it. Thats free and easy.
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