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Old 02-09-2005, 07:45 AM   #1
STi Guy
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The Return of Muscle Cars- UPDATE

Not too long ago, I posted a thread about how big name muscle cars were going to be making their comeback over the next few years. Well, four months and three auto shows later and a lot has changed since then. So that's why I felt it would be a good idea to update you guys on the development of these vehicles. For those of you who have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, here's a link to my original thread http://www.car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?t=5573 . Below, I'll cover the changes in the development of each car.

CHEVROLET: As rumors continue to circulate about the fifth generation Camaro, the engine possibilities seem to narrow down and take shape. Word is that there will be three different engine choices. Suprisingly, all engines are eight cylinders. The base Camaro will display the small block 5.3L V8 found in the new Chevy Impala SS and Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, producing 303 hp. The next step up, the Camaro SS, will have the 6.0L LS2 V8 under its hood, the same as that found in the new Corvette and GTO, with around 400 hp. Leading the top of the line, the Camaro Z28, will be an ultra powerful 6.3L V8, a detuned version of the 7.0L V8 found in the new Corvetter Z06, pumping out numbers anywhere from 460 hp to 480 hp. The 6.3L V8 also happens to be the same engine found in the Pontiac GTO Ram Air 6 concept. Production has yet to be confirmed, but with a good engine lineup, all the Camaro needs now is a retro look. Keep your eyes peeled, if it is to be produced, it should be hitting showrooms within the next year or so.

2007 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
Engine: 460-480 hp, 6.3L V8
Performance (0-60): 4.4 sec. (est.)
http://popularhotrodding.com/feature...amaro_12_z.jpg (GM's 2007 Camaro artist rendition concept)


DODGE: The Charger has arrived. The all new 2006 Dodge Charger debuted at the Detroit Auto Show last month, perhaps one of the most unique cars at the show. It's not suprising that the car debuted as a sedan, as it was rumored to be, but what did suprise the people at Dodge was the amount of public outcry over the vehicle. Which brings reason to beleive that a (SRT-8) coupe is not out of the question. Although Dodge officials deny any chance of a Charger coupe, something tells me that there might be some last minute recinsiderations with the SRT-8 version right around the corner. And with a two door 300C concept (http://www.cwwcardesign.com/cars/chrysler300coupe.html), it is apparent that the LX platform has the potential to take a coupe form. What can be said is that if Dodge does decide to introduce the Charger in a coupe form, it will be unique in the sense that it would be the only SRT-8 car that doesn't have four doors; the coupe would be a first. The final decision will be left up to Dodge though, so let's hope that they use the response of the public to help them finalize their decision. The addition of a six speed manual wouldn't hurt either. But whether it arrives in coupe or sedan form, expect the SRT-8 to display a more aggressive grille, which may come as good news to those of you who were not so happy with the standard Charger's look.

2007 Dodge Charger SRT-8
Engine: 425 hp, 6.1L V8
Performance (0-60): 4.7 sec.
http://www.modernracer.com/images/do...errtfront2.jpg (Charger R/T)


FORD: Being the sole survivor of the SVT lineup and the heir to Ford's in house tuner treatment, the Cobra promises to be a car to look forward to. With it's debut rumored to be sometime in 2006, it was surprising that Ford has already released a press release for the car. But what's even more surprising was that the car exceeded everyone's expectations, even mine. Boasting the Ford GTs supercharged 5.4L V8 (instead of the last generation's 4.6L V8), the car is said to produce 465 hp! Can we say more power than you'll ever need? And what does all that power amount to? Try a quarter mile rumored to be in the low 12s! It looks as though SVT has come through this time, despite the losses of both the Focus and Lightning. With cars as good as this one, we can only beg to ask, what's next?

2007 Ford SVT Cobra
Engine: 465 hp, 5.4L supercharged V8
Performance (0-60): 4.2 sec.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/pmdemas/4ff6.jpg (SVT Cobra)


PONTIAC: As we well know, Pontiac decided to swap the 5.7L V8 with the 6.0L V8 for 2005. Now producing 400 hp, the GTO has more than enough horsepower to qualify it as a muscle car (at least as far as power goes). But the latest seems to be rumors of a brand new GTO for the 2007 model year. Engine changes for the new GTO have not been verified, but it could be assumed that with the new car, a new engine may be on the way as well. Now, only rumors can unfold the direction in which this car is headed. On a side note, something to check out for the 2005 is the new Sport Appearence package to add a little flavor to those lackluster looks.

2005 Pontiac GTO
Engine: 400 hp, 6.0L V8
Performance (0-60): 4.6 sec. (verified)
http://UltimateGTO.com/2005/05_00098_1.jpg (GTO with Sport Appearance Package)

There you go, the official update. Again, most of this information is from reliable sources, though not officially confirmed. Everything can be assumed to be true. Let me know what you guys think.

Last edited by STi Guy : 02-10-2005 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 02-09-2005, 10:09 PM   #2
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Just one correction for ya STi

The Camaro that will be coming out will only be the fifth generation, not the sixth. But other than that I am excited to see how the cars are gonna turn out, specifically if the Camaro does well, and they decide to put out a new Firebird then. I also find it very interesting that Chevy is thinking of going with all 8 cylinder engines for the Camaro line up.
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Old 02-09-2005, 11:24 PM   #3
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Good job STi Guy. Nice post!
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Old 02-13-2005, 12:26 AM   #4
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Current Muscle Car Pecking Order

So what conststutes a 'muscle car'?
-American
-V8 engine with gobs of horsepower and torque
-Rear wheel drive
-Under $100k
Fair enough?

No one can deny that America has been making a comeback in recent years and the manufacturers seem to be locked in another horsepower arms race.

So how do these modern muscle cars stack up?
According to Motor Trend the current performance pecking order is as follows:

Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (2004 C5)
405hp
0-60: 4.3 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.4 @ 117 mph

Chevrolet Corvette (2005 Z51 C6)
400hp
0-60: 4.4 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.6 @ 113.2 mph

Cadillac CTS-V (2005 w/o factory performance add-ons)
400hp
0-60: 4.7 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.1 @ 109.8 mph

Chrysler 300C SRT8 (2005)
425hp
0-60: 4.9
1/4 mile: 13.2 @ 108.1

Pontiac GTO (2005 LS2)
400hp
0-60: 5.0 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.3 @ 107 mph

Ford Mustang GT (2005)
300hp
0-60: 5.1 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.5 @ 103.6 mph

Cadillac XLR (2004)
320hp
0-60: 6.0 seconds
1/4 mile: 14.2 @ 101.4 mph

Cadillac STS (2005 w/ performance handling package)
320hp
0-60: 6.0
1/4 mile: 14.2 @ 97.5

Dodge Magnum RT (2005)
340hp
0-60: 6.2
1/4 mile: 14.4 @ 98.2

Chrysler 300C (2005)
340hp
0-60: 6.2 seconds
1/4 mile: 14.5 @ 97.5 mph

"Muscle car" of course is defined by go, but honestly anyone can drop a monster engine in a car and make it fast. What truly separates modern cars are their handling characteristics. The reason I chose Motor Trend for the comparison is that they have a new Figure Eight test that tests all the driving dynamics (acceleration, cornering, braking).

Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (2004 C5)
60-0 Braking: 107ft.
Slalom: 70.2mph
Figure Eight: NA
Average Figure Eight g: NA

Chevrolet Corvette (2005 Z51 C6)
60-0 Braking: 113ft.
Slalom: 68.9mph
Figure Eight: 25.2
Average Figure Eight g: 0.76

Cadillac CTS-V (2005 w/o factory performance add-ons)
60-0 Braking: 111ft.
Slalom: 66.8mph
Figure Eight: 25.6
Average Figure Eight g: 0.72

Chrysler 300C SRT8 (2005)
60-0 Braking: 113ft.
Slalom: 67.3mph
Figure Eight: 26.3
Average Figure Eight g: 0.70

Pontiac GTO (2005 LS2)
60-0 Braking: 121ft.
Slalom: 63.6mph
Figure Eight: 26.1
Average Figure Eight g: 0.68

Ford Mustang GT (2005)
60-0 Braking: 125ft.
Slalom: 65.4mph
Figure Eight: 26.4
Average Figure Eight g: 0.69

Cadillac STS (2005 w/ performance handling package)
60-0 Braking: 113ft.
Slalom: 64.4mph
Figure Eight: 26.7
Average Figure Eight g: 0.66

Cadillac XLR (2004)
60-0 Braking: 114ft.
Slalom: 64.0mph
Figure Eight: 27.1
Average Figure Eight g: 0.66

Dodge Magnum RT (2005)
60-0 Braking: 129ft.
Slalom: 61.2mph
Figure Eight: 26.9
Average Figure Eight g: 0.65

Chrysler 300C (2005)
60-0 Braking: 133ft.
Slalom: 61.1mph
Figure Eight: 27.8
Average Figure Eight g: 0.62


The list will update again in about another 6 months to include:
Cadillac STS-V (440hp SuperCharged Northstar)
Cadillac XLR-V (440hp SuperCharged Northstar)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (500hp LS7)
Dodge Charger (300 and 425hp Hemi's)
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:59 PM   #5
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the 06 z06 is supposed to do 0-60 in 3.5. And the xlr-v BETTER come with a manual transmission or I'll be pissed.
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Old 07-10-2005, 12:00 AM   #6
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How come the Mustang in that list only indicates 300hp? They have been marketing them at car shows as 300kW here?

I understand the LS2 is starting to appear in showrooms as standard four door Holdens here.
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Old 07-11-2005, 07:12 AM   #7
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The 07 camaro if there is one may have may 8 cylinder engines but more than likely none of them will exceed 400 hp. Nothing can outpower the vette. It would take away sales from a big money maker so why would gm do it. Think about it . The new ssr got the ls2 even with 400 hp this car wouldnt even perform near as well as a c6 but they still detuned it to 390. Plain and simple nothing can outpower the vette (from chevrolet). Especially something close in weight to the vette. But the all v8s thing is cool. it kinda reminds you of the days when there wher like 7 differwent V8 engines to be had in most musclecars evwen thought sixxes where available.

Oh about the new Shelby Mustang Gt500. The 5.4 liter found in the mustang ans gt are actually quite different. Not even the saeme supercharger. You can read about it in car and drivers 50th anniversary edition.
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:41 PM   #8
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Oh about the new Shelby Mustang Gt500. The 5.4 liter found in the mustang ans gt are actually quite different. Not even the saeme supercharger. You can read about it in car and drivers 50th anniversary edition.

Yeah I mentioned that in a different thread. They just detuned it it a bit.
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:49 PM   #9
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over the years there have been alot of things faster than the vette. so it wouldnt suprise me to see a 400+ hp camaro comming out. even back in the day there were the 454 powered chevelles that just stomped vettes into the ground. but the thing is nothing can touch the vette because of weight. and the fact that the vette has always been a 2 seater. but the camaro z28 with 400+ hp will probably be like 6 gs more expensive then the base camaro or ss camaro. the vetter isnt just a muscle car its in the roadster class. whereas the camaro has always been the coupe ground pounder. and in regards to information about the new firebirds along with the camaros. most likely with the introduction of the pontiac gto that they will not start production on a 5th generation firebird. but a year or so after the camaro comes out you know the after market will have firebird conversion kits. just like there are conversion kits for 60s camaros to 60s firebirds and visa versa
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:51 PM   #10
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and who said anything about a gt500 mustang. all ive seen is the new cobra
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:55 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 72firebird
over the years there have been alot of things faster than the vette. so it wouldnt suprise me to see a 400+ hp camaro comming out. even back in the day there were the 454 powered chevelles that just stomped vettes into the ground.

I've never heard of a Chevelle stomping a corvette into the ground, especially a 454 chevelle. They weigh too much. Unless maybe it was a Yenko Chevelle. The only corvette i can think of that has a remote chance of losing to a 454 chevelle would be a '73+ corvette.
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:58 PM   #12
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and who said anything about a gt500 mustang. all ive seen is the new cobra

You havent heard of the '06 gt500 mustang?





^^ anyone notice the plain white GT in the back? yuck.
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Old 07-12-2005, 08:22 AM   #13
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Whoever said soemthing about the 454 chevelle pounding a vette should do some research so they ca discover that the same year the 454 was available in the vette. Ive seen one with my own two eyes. My neighbor has a 70 ls6 4speed convertible corvette. ( i think its the ls6 could be an ls5)
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Old 07-13-2005, 05:30 AM   #14
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And out of your entire list, the only one that has that classic style is the Mustang.
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Old 07-13-2005, 06:36 AM   #15
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Since when does classic styling make a car good? Is the Skyline classically Styled? 02 WS6? Enzo? Mclaren F1? Honda S2000? NOPE. A cars performance or luxury or a combination of the two make a car good. Classic styling may make it pretty but not a superior car! Oh and theres 2 on the list that will beclassicaly styled... The mustang and the camaro
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