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Old 08-31-2007, 06:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by windsonian
why are you telling ME this?

Because you wasted several bytes of valuable bandwidth trying to elaborate and understand a theory that didn't need to be explained simply because it was faulty in logic from the get go. That is WHY.

Because I can tell you anything I want to. WHY are you reading it? Thats the more important question.
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Old 08-31-2007, 05:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DSMer
Because you wasted several bytes of valuable bandwidth trying to elaborate and understand a theory that didn't need to be explained simply because it was faulty in logic from the get go. That is WHY.

Because I can tell you anything I want to. WHY are you reading it? Thats the more important question.

Go easy. For the intelligent learned engineer you try to portray yourself as, you sure do get into alot of petty disagreements. I know you think you know everything, but the fact of the matter is that GM is already using it as a structural member to an extent. Thus it is possible that by furthering its importance as a structural member more weight may be saved or more stiffness may be had, either results in the same goal. Obviously there are limits. For instance maybe GM didn't go all out with it for cost reasons... comes to mind immediately.

No, a torque tube is not necessarily the best, or even a very good design at all for torsional rigidity. I was thinking more along the lines of a webbed "torque tube" that would be less tubular in shape and more planar. To it would be bolted the rest of the body. It would still be a unibody I guess, but it does go a little bit back to the old "frame" idea. In this case the spine as I have been calling it would be stressed. Basically the engine would become a cross member, so would the torque tube, and the transmission. Etc. Removing the drivetrain wouldn't make the car fall apart, but it would be severly weakened to the point that you wouldn't want to drive it at all if it did have an unstressed drivetrain in it.

These are just dreams of mine and penciled ideas though. I don't know if it will actually work. Was just a thought. Sorry I didn't think it all the way through or explain thoroughly.

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Old 08-31-2007, 11:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudypoochris
Etc. Removing the drivetrain wouldn't make the car fall apart, but it would be severly weakened to the point that you wouldn't want to drive it at all if it did have an unstressed drivetrain in it.
what about maybe your "tube" is not a single piece, so it could be made so important as to be necessary for the car to "not fall apart". if it wasn't a single piece, you could potentially still get the drivetrain out without destroying the car.

Like you said, it doesnt need to be a tube as such. It's only there to avoid having a bare rotating shaft (and for the afore-mentioned stiffness etc)
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Old 09-01-2007, 12:19 AM   #19
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Trying to copy european design i see...gay!
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudypoochris
Go easy. For the intelligent learned engineer you try to portray yourself as, you sure do get into alot of petty disagreements. I know you think you know everything, but the fact of the matter is that GM is already using it as a structural member to an extent. Thus it is possible that by furthering its importance as a structural member more weight may be saved or more stiffness may be had, either results in the same goal. Obviously there are limits. For instance maybe GM didn't go all out with it for cost reasons... comes to mind immediately.

No, a torque tube is not necessarily the best, or even a very good design at all for torsional rigidity. I was thinking more along the lines of a webbed "torque tube" that would be less tubular in shape and more planar. To it would be bolted the rest of the body. It would still be a unibody I guess, but it does go a little bit back to the old "frame" idea. In this case the spine as I have been calling it would be stressed. Basically the engine would become a cross member, so would the torque tube, and the transmission. Etc. Removing the drivetrain wouldn't make the car fall apart, but it would be severly weakened to the point that you wouldn't want to drive it at all if it did have an unstressed drivetrain in it.

These are just dreams of mine and penciled ideas though. I don't know if it will actually work. Was just a thought. Sorry I didn't think it all the way through or explain thoroughly.

This is all a WASTE of time. Explain to me. How can a planar shape properly house a circular tube giving it play equally in every direction? It can't. Thats the simple answer. Don't try to justify YOUR bullshit logic AGAIN. You can't even properly understand how a simple combustion works. What makes you think I would take your word on complicated chassis design?

"Removing the drivetrain wouldn't make the car fall apart, but it would be severely weakened to the point you wouldn't want to drive it"

Really? So I guess you have a car that drives without a drivetrain? Right.. and I suppose you also drive a hovercraft. F*cking pitiful. Just stop now. Please..

Of course I think I know everything. I was here before the creation of human life and I'll be here long after all of you are gone. I've accepted this FACT. Why can't you? Congratulations you've discovered the truth of life.
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Last edited by DSMer : 09-01-2007 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 09-02-2007, 01:54 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
This is all a WASTE of time. Explain to me. How can a planar shape properly house a circular tube giving it play equally in every direction? It can't. Thats the simple answer.
Wrong question champ. It doesn't need "equal play" in all directions, it needs sufficient play in all directions. Which is completely feasible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
"Removing the drivetrain wouldn't make the car fall apart, but it would be severely weakened to the point you wouldn't want to drive it"

Really? So I guess you have a car that drives without a drivetrain? Right.. and I suppose you also drive a hovercraft. F*cking pitiful. Just stop now. Please..
We're talking about the structure, not the transmission.... wow.
They not bother with reading comprehension for $30k?
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:48 PM   #22
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I think all you nerds are missing the point.
......................


If Chevrolet does this and keeps the Corvette affordable and "pretty", this will be an amazing image manuever for the Corvette. If the mid-engine design is successful and they keep improving the interior quality AND they maintain a good bang for buck...why buy a Ferrari? Well I understand the reasoning for buying a Ferrari but *this* Vette could make Ferrari/Lambo buyers think. 400+hp...mid-engined...decent interior...excellent performance...what will the Europeans bitch about?

If only GM worked so hard on its other cars like they do with their Corvette.


.......
Go ahead nerd posters...continue explaining engineering shit you don't really know.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:43 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by What
I think all you nerds are missing the point.
......................


If Chevrolet does this and keeps the Corvette affordable and "pretty", this will be an amazing image manuever for the Corvette. If the mid-engine design is successful and they keep improving the interior quality AND they maintain a good bang for buck...why buy a Ferrari? Well I understand the reasoning for buying a Ferrari but *this* Vette could make Ferrari/Lambo buyers think. 400+hp...mid-engined...decent interior...excellent performance...what will the Europeans bitch about?

If only GM worked so hard on its other cars like they do with their Corvette.



.......
Go ahead nerd posters...continue explaining engineering shit you don't really know.
Wonder if this next corvette will have a cheap interior and leaf springs too goddamn GM needs to get their head out of their ass
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by newyorker
Wonder if this next corvette will have a cheap interior and leaf springs too goddamn GM needs to get their head out of their ass
Apparently the leaf springs are working and at an affordable price. Let me guess you want a way better interior, and better suspension pieces all around and better this and better that. Okay then it will be the price of a ferrrari.

This is supposed to be a bargain priced supercar that why it uses some of the things it does.
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Enthusiast
Apparently the leaf springs are working and at an affordable price. Let me guess you want a way better interior, and better suspension pieces all around and better this and better that. Okay then it will be the price of a ferrrari.

This is supposed to be a bargain priced supercar that why it uses some of the things it does.
The corvette is a super car, but nowhere close to being a supercar. Using a non leaf suspension and better interior will not up the price of the car 120,000 dollars to put it in f430 territory...everything else on the corvette is fine its a great performer but for me the leaf springs are stone age, and honestly my civic uses a higher quality material for the interior than the vette. Not talking seats or head up display w.e it is, but just the dash I think mine would be worth more in scrap parts. If I was looking at a plastic car, id get an evo that performs just as well, handles better, uses modern technology, and is 1/2 of the cost of a vette

That or id get some Mattel toys..they probbably have less recalls than the corvette will also
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:15 PM   #26
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The interior really isn't that bad at all. It is ALOT better than even a new civics interior. Maybe you should try driving a C6. Yes, it has leather or atleast something close to it. Last time I checked the civic didn't. I wouldn't call the Z06 a supercar though. It does perform as one, but it isn't rare enough.

The fact of the matter is that those stone age leaf springs work. They are light weight an effective. Are you suggesting that by switching to coils which place more weight higher up there would be some sort of performance gain? The rear suspension is still fully independant with the monoleaf...

As for my idea being completely retarded and such regarding the use of the driveline as a structural member... Okay, I guess. They already do this to an extent though so I am not sure how you can complain that it wouldn't work... thats okay though, I didn't expect you to really be open to new ideas after your gross display of "knowledge" regarding the EFI system.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by rudypoochris
The interior really isn't that bad at all. It is ALOT better than even a new civics interior. Maybe you should try driving a C6. Yes, it has leather or atleast something close to it. Last time I checked the civic didn't. I wouldn't call the Z06 a supercar though. It does perform as one, but it isn't rare enough.

The fact of the matter is that those stone age leaf springs work. They are light weight an effective. Are you suggesting that by switching to coils which place more weight higher up there would be some sort of performance gain? The rear suspension is still fully independant with the monoleaf...

As for my idea being completely retarded and such regarding the use of the driveline as a structural member... Okay, I guess. They already do this to an extent though so I am not sure how you can complain that it wouldn't work... thats okay though, I didn't expect you to really be open to new ideas after your gross display of "knowledge" regarding the EFI system.
Fact of the matter is its underengineered...I would never pay 60k for something that uses 25 year old technology in something as vital as the suspension.
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:05 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorker
Using a non leaf suspension and better interior will not up the price of the car 120,000 dollars...the leaf springs are stone age...If I was looking at a plastic car, id get an evo that performs just as well, handles better, uses modern technology, and is 1/2 of the cost of a vette.

Pure ignorance.

I don't think you even know what a leaf spring is. What's wrong with the design? Where is it located? You'll struggle to answer these questions. Stop listening to Jeremy Clarkson or other anti-Americans hating on the Vette and go drive it yourself.

The C6 Corvette interior is excellent. It isn't Audi good, but it's better or on par with Boxsters and Lotus. Have you sat in one?

Evos are good, but I'd rather the FASTER, more refined, smoother riding, more powerful Corvette. Get real. These aren't the same leaf springs from 25 years ago, don't be ignorant. How old is the combustion engine?

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Old 09-06-2007, 12:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorker
The corvette is a super car, but nowhere close to being a supercar. Using a non leaf suspension and better interior will not up the price of the car 120,000 dollars to put it in f430 territory...everything else on the corvette is fine its a great performer but for me the leaf springs are stone age, and honestly my civic uses a higher quality material for the interior than the vette. Not talking seats or head up display w.e it is, but just the dash I think mine would be worth more in scrap parts. If I was looking at a plastic car, id get an evo that performs just as well, handles better, uses modern technology, and is 1/2 of the cost of a vette

That or id get some Mattel toys..they probbably have less recalls than the corvette will also
This has been gone over before. It resulted in ChrisV saying pretty much what 'What' said earlier, just more in depth and some very valid (and technical) points were raised. I do tend to agree with you though, leaf springs are stone age, even buses don't use them anymore!

Quote:
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Stop listening to Jeremy Clarkson or other anti-Americans hating on the Vette and go drive it yourself.
It's all too easy to blame Jeremy Clarkson for why people think leaf spring suspension is old and past it, but that's the way it is. Old. And tired.
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Old 09-06-2007, 01:56 AM   #30
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Pure ignorance.

I don't think you even know what a leaf spring is. What's wrong with the design? Where is it located? You'll struggle to answer these questions. Stop listening to Jeremy Clarkson or other anti-Americans hating on the Vette and go drive it yourself.

The C6 Corvette interior is excellent. It isn't Audi good, but it's better or on par with Boxsters and Lotus. Have you sat in one?

Evos are good, but I'd rather the FASTER, more refined, smoother riding, more powerful Corvette. Get real. These aren't the same leaf springs from 25 years ago, don't be ignorant. How old is the combustion engine?
On par with lotus! hahahah the elise doesnt even have carpeting I believe its all plasticy and lightweight. A leaf spring is this...I dont see it on SUVs anymore


Yes I have sat in a vette and it was crap. the only thing I liked were the seats and HUD thats all. A vette cant touch an evo on the track at the strip sure, but dragstrips dont really involve too much driving skill. Its stoneage, I dont care if they are from 25 years ago or not. My ****ing civic has a more advanced suspension for ****s sake
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