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Old 01-14-2006, 12:56 AM   #61
ChrisV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelSpirit
Well, there is more to a car than the body style, I acknowledged that. A 300C wouldn't be a Japanese car if you put a 350Z body on it.

Then it would BE a 350z. that's teh point. There's already Japanes cars that lopok lik eit. But even then, Japanes luxury sedans don't look like 350Zs, either. And to be honest, I prefer 240Zs to 350Zs. But 240Zs were patterned after the great Ferrari front engine GTs of the previous decade.

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But seriously, do you really think a PT Cruiser looks better than a Nissan 350Z or an RX-8? Neither of those cars looks anything close to bland, by any standards.

They are cars for a completely different segment of the market. One is a 4 door small tall station wagon, and the others are 2 seat or 2+ 2 sport coupes. COMPLETELY different things. Now, look at the Japanese style cars that compete with the PT: the Toyota Matrix, the Scion xB, and the like. Yes, I like the PT better than them, which is why I bought it. the criteria of the car when I bought it was a family sedan with easy ingress/egress from teh rear seat, teh ability to carry a lot of stuff in a small space, stylish, and inexpensive. The PT met all those needs. A 350Z would NOT have (and I already had a 2 seat sports car, as you can see in my sig). And the Japanese equivalents of the PT simply were lacking on one area or another (too slow, not enough headroom, too expensive, really small back seats, etc).

Are you looking at cars only through testosterone addled teenage boy eyes? Cars are far more than just sports cars and sports car styling. But in the realm of sports cars, I prefer cars like the 240Z, XKE, the Lambo Miura, the Ferrari 250 GT and 275 GTB over the 350Z. Hell, I preferred the original nissan showcar that was going to BE the 350Z to th eproduction one.

The problem you have is it's one style or nothing. I like ALL of them, from a '60s Falcon to a '90s BMW (and to be honest, now that we have two range Rover Classics, I'll be getting rid of the PT and replacing it with a '96-98 BMW 740i).
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Old 01-14-2006, 12:57 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by SteelSpirit
Where was I proven wrong? Did you read my last post?

You mean this:

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Originally Posted by SteelSpirit
And no, I don't auto-fellate myself, but I hear that in Redneck Hell, you guys have family trees like telephone poles.
Besides get, things straight: you are the one who brought up intelligence first (reread the beginning of this thread). I have never used my IQ as a weapon in an argument unless some rat-****ed dickbrain like you brings that into the argument first.
Would you like some ketchup with that foot of yours? Oh wait, first you need to unbury your nose from Aondor's pubes.

That's what made me post what I did post...unless you mean the post before that, which you said the GTO was only based on an Australian car, and not built on one.

Did you see the PM I sent you?...I can provide links, where it says the GTO is made in Australia...
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Old 01-14-2006, 01:06 AM   #63
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From Motortrend:

...later in 2003 when GM introduces the all new GTO. Equipped with a 350bhp 5.7L LS1 engine, which some of us may remember from GM's Corvettes of earlier years, fully independent suspension, and an almost neutral front/rear weight distribution, the GTO is every bit as powerful as its decades old predecessors...
...While the body and chassis is loosely based on the Australian made Holden Monero, and the car looks remarkably similar to the European made VXR, this car is pure, Detroit muscle. It is expected to come off of Pontiac's assembly lines late in 2003...
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Old 01-14-2006, 01:07 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by SteelSpirit
And again you are wrong, ****head.
The GTO is BASED upon the chassis of the Australian made Monero, which is where Pontiac derived its inspiration from. That and the body style is where the similarity ends.
The GTO however, was adapted in 2004 for America (adding the 5.7L LS1) and is manufactured in the US by PONTIAC which is in turn owned by GM (who is an American manufacturer last I checked).
Try again, VBHOMO.

Actually, the current GTO is built in Australia, at Holden's Elizabeth, South Australia plant, and shipped up here. Go to the dealer and look at the stickers.

http://www.americancarfans.com/news....Pontiac/1.html

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/ov...tiac&model=GTO

In fact, it's caused some concern with the UAW.

The next GTO is supposed to be built in the US, based off the Zeta chassis and the sister car to the new Camaro.

But really concerning yourself where the headquarters of a car company are or where the "profits" are going is pointless. I mean, I'm sure the American exective will thank you for allowing him to purchase a Villa in the South of France, and the Japanese executive would thank you for his Condo in Vail, Colorado, but really, the bulk of the economic flow in the purchase price of a car goes to where the car is built. The economy doesn't see "profits" from the sale of cars. That money goes to a few high execs, and into purchasing new facilities out of the country or going into corporate buyouts. Where do you think the couple billion Ford spent for Range Rover came from andwent to? TO the US? How about it's purchase of Volvo? Or Jaguar? Or GM's purchase of Alfa (and the ensuing fiasco where they owed Fiat billions). If you think the profits that paid for all that went to help the US trade deficit, you need to go back and study economics.
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Last edited by ChrisV : 01-14-2006 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 01-14-2006, 01:18 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
Actually, the current GTO is built in Australia, at Holden's Elizabeth, South Australia plant, and shipped up here. Go to the dealer and look at the stickers.

http://www.americancarfans.com/news....Pontiac/1.html

In fact, it's caused some concern with the UAW.

The next GTO is supposed to be built in the US, based off the Zeta chassis and the sister car to the new Camaro.

But really concerning yourself where the headquarters of a car company are or where the "profits" are going is pointless. I mean, I'm sure the American exective will thank you for allowing him to purchase a Villa in the South of France, and the Japanese executive would thank you for his Condo in Vail, Colorado, but really, the bulk of the economic flow in the purchase price of a car goes to where the car is built. The economy doesn't see "profits" from the sale of cars. That money goes to a few high execs, and into purchasing new facilities out of the country or going into corporate buyouts. Where do you think the couple billion Ford spent for Range Rover came from andwent to? TO the US? How about it's purchase of Volvo? Or Jaguar? Or GM's purchase of Alfa (and the ensuing fiasco where they owed Fiat billions). If you think the profits that paid for all that went to help the US trade deficit, you need to go back and study economics.
Thanks for the clarification, dude (and Chris Knows, too) and for not being a jackass about it.
So it doesn't matter that the GTO is owned by Pontiac, only that it was manufactured in Australia? That's kinda sick...I wonder how many people realize these things.
Well, if I am wrong, I am wrong, what the heck, but I definitely don't need VBHOMOboy screaming insults at me. I swear some folks just can't behave like civilized individuals.
I was under the impression (from several supposedly reliable sources like Motortrend and Edmunds) that whatever manufacturer owns the rights to the car determines which country the profits go to, instead of the country where they were actually assembled. This is not the case? That sucks.
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Old 01-14-2006, 01:20 AM   #66
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Eating Crow

Okay, I was wrong and misunderstood what I had read. Thanks everyone for keeping me honest (LOL).

But....I still like the GTO and VBHOMO is still un uncivilized brute and has no class.
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Old 01-14-2006, 01:22 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by SteelSpirit
Thanks for the clarification, dude (and Chris Knows, too) and for not being a jackass about it.
So it doesn't matter that the GTO is owned by Pontiac, only that it was manufactured in Australia? That's kinda sick...I wonder how many people realize these things.
Well, if I am wrong, I am wrong, what the heck, but I definitely don't need VBHOMOboy screaming insults at me. I swear some folks just can't behave like civilized individuals.
I was under the impression (from several supposedly reliable sources like Motortrend and Edmunds) that whatever manufacturer owns the rights to the car determines which country the profits go to, instead of the country where they were actually assembled. This is not the case? That sucks.

Actually, this type of thing is pretty common...I believe it was GM (not positive) who had plants in Mexico also, but they're doing this to save money (lower taxes)...
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Old 01-14-2006, 01:39 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by SteelSpirit
I was under the impression (from several supposedly reliable sources like Motortrend and Edmunds) that whatever manufacturer owns the rights to the car determines which country the profits go to, instead of the country where they were actually assembled. This is not the case? That sucks.

Profits don't go to any country. Period. Profits go to the executives and shareholders worldwide, regardless of company. And even that is after overhead and R&D comes out. And profits go to things like buying up other car companies.

MOST of the cost of the car is in material, labor, and the operating costs of the plant and tooling to build it. The people that work on the cars get money, the people that run the plants get money, the people that support the plants get money (i.e. food services, architects, plumbers, facilities people, janitors, electrical contractors, fire support, security, etc). The communities the plants are in get money both directly from property taxes and B&O taxes, but also indirectly from supporting the people that work in the plants. Also teh power that runs the plant, the garbage services and hazardous materials services, shipping companies, etc around the plant make money off of it being there. 4000 jobs at a plant equates into 10,000 jobs directly affected OUTSIDE the plant.

So when GM or Ford puts a plant in Mexico or Canada, America isn't helped out. But when Toyota or Honda have plants here, America IS helped out. Especially when they have started sourcing parts from local suppliers, and the raw materials (like the steels and aluminums) come from US sources. And the profits from Toyota may partially go worldwide, but they also partially go to increasing capacity right here in the US. Honda even builds cars here and exports them to Japan...

The best policy it to simply buy the cars you like. The market will sort itself out.
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Old 01-14-2006, 03:02 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
Profits don't go to any country. Period. Profits go to the executives and shareholders worldwide, regardless of company. And even that is after overhead and R&D comes out. And profits go to things like buying up other car companies.

MOST of the cost of the car is in material, labor, and the operating costs of the plant and tooling to build it. The people that work on the cars get money, the people that run the plants get money, the people that support the plants get money (i.e. food services, architects, plumbers, facilities people, janitors, electrical contractors, fire support, security, etc). The communities the plants are in get money both directly from property taxes and B&O taxes, but also indirectly from supporting the people that work in the plants. Also teh power that runs the plant, the garbage services and hazardous materials services, shipping companies, etc around the plant make money off of it being there. 4000 jobs at a plant equates into 10,000 jobs directly affected OUTSIDE the plant.

So when GM or Ford puts a plant in Mexico or Canada, America isn't helped out. But when Toyota or Honda have plants here, America IS helped out. Especially when they have started sourcing parts from local suppliers, and the raw materials (like the steels and aluminums) come from US sources. And the profits from Toyota may partially go worldwide, but they also partially go to increasing capacity right here in the US. Honda even builds cars here and exports them to Japan...

The best policy it to simply buy the cars you like. The market will sort itself out.
Thanks. When I took (was forced...LOL) ecomonics in college, I squeezed by with a C-, as you can tell.
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Old 01-14-2006, 03:03 AM   #70
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Actually, this type of thing is pretty common...I believe it was GM (not positive) who had plants in Mexico also, but they're doing this to save money (lower taxes)...
It's a damn shame.
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